00;00;08;22 – 00;00;31;05
Unknown
Hey, it’s me Erin. Thanks for joining us on the Moor Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside. But the truth is, she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Here she comes. Hey, bestie. Hi, love. What are you doing?
00;00;31;06 – 00;00;56;13
Unknown
Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast about what? Our life. Our life as best friends who are more like sisters. Oh, yay, I love this, and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world. Especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right to be our most authentic selves. Oh, man. Okay.
00;00;56;15 – 00;01;22;14
Unknown
I got to tell you this story about Facebook Marketplace. Oh, Jesus. I know, Scott, do you like Facebook Marketplace? Well, do you use Facebook Marketplace? No, but my wife does, and we were having a conversation about it yesterday. Oh, why? Because she asked you to go pick something up. Because she was afraid for her life or. No. Oh, well, I was the one that said that you shouldn’t go by herself.
00;01;22;17 – 00;01;42;10
Unknown
Oh yeah. She’s like why I prefer. I’m like because you don’t know what the hell. I mean what are you selling. I think it depends on buying or selling what you’re buying or selling. We’re buying. Okay. So if you’re I mean it depends on what you’re buying. Wow. Really. I mean interesting. A cooler. Oh yeah. Oh you say those people are fine.
00;01;42;13 – 00;02;02;16
Unknown
Oh people are like, hey, you know what it is? They’re out there like I’m sick and tired of my kids and fucking sports. Okay, buy this cooler. Okay. That’s what it is. That’s what it is. Okay? It’s just discrimination by item. Yes. Yeah. That’s right. That’s what it is. Well, you know, I’m a big Facebook Marketplace person. I love Facebook Marketplace.
00;02;02;18 – 00;02;20;02
Unknown
I do a lot of Facebook Marketplace. I do Facebook Marketplace for other people who have things that they want to sell. I just really enjoy the experience. And I’m very apparently unique in that regard because many people just hate it. They just hate it. They don’t want to go back and forth. They don’t want to answer the questions they don’t want or whatever.
00;02;20;02 – 00;02;46;11
Unknown
Well, I have a really great track record of not getting stirred up by people I’ve never. Knock on wood. Been stiffed by someone? Usually people don’t are rude to me, right. So I just have a decent, decent track record. So I’m looking for some items for a friend. Some baby items for a friend. And, she had asked me to look for.
00;02;46;14 – 00;03;14;04
Unknown
I think it was one of the items was a car seat. I have not looked for a car in a really long time. Right. So I had to go back and remind myself from the manufacturer’s date, the date of expiration. It’s really only seven years, right? So if you’re not going to get a car, see if you’re going to get a converter car seat that goes from infant all the way up to six years old, but you only have two years left on your, you know, warranty, if you will.
00;03;14;04 – 00;03;40;08
Unknown
That’s not going to work. So there’s just some math involved right off what I’m trying to figure out. So, I get this situation set up. This person’s going to go meet the other person out at Longhorn Steakhouse or something like that, or wherever this person means. It’s this huge ordeal that they have to do this. You know, they’ve had to share phone numbers and they’d have to connect with each other and make sure they were going to meet at a certain time.
00;03;40;08 – 00;03;53;28
Unknown
And, oh, well, I’m coming in from out of town. And so I’m not going to it’s like a huge ordeal. And the person that I’m helping find the item is like, are you sure that this person is going to be there and everything’s going to be great? And I’m like, yes, there’s no reason this person would be there.
00;03;53;28 – 00;04;15;06
Unknown
It’ll be completely fine. Well, true to form, this person at the last minute says, oh, sorry, I forgot to bring the car seat. So, sorry you drove an hour to come pick the car seat, and you were here for an event and, this person had to be in town for an event. They had driven an hour for this event, and we’re going to pick up the car seat.
00;04;15;08 – 00;04;32;22
Unknown
So they didn’t come in just a bit just for it. Right. But. And then was like, sorry, I just don’t have it. Right. And so this person’s like, okay, so I think we’re one for one on how these situations happen. I said, I’m sorry. I think it’s your energy. I think it must be you. This never happens to me.
00;04;32;22 – 00;04;54;22
Unknown
Right? I’m really sorry that this had happened. So then I’m like, okay, well, I that’s I guess it’s not my negotiation, that’s for sure, because I’m really good at that. So then it gets to me trying to find a car seat and another car seat, and I go, and I find this car seat. That seems to be a good option.
00;04;54;22 – 00;05;18;13
Unknown
It’s $35, which is a reasonable price, but again, it only has two years left on its expiration date and I need it to last a good five years. So I ask for the expiration date. And the person says tells me the date. And then I put a pin in it for a minute and I go to my friend and say, hey, just wanted to check in.
00;05;18;13 – 00;05;43;23
Unknown
This is the situation that we’re having. My gut sense is that we don’t take this because of whatever reasons. Well, it takes her a decent amount of time to get back to me because I don’t know, it was six in the morning when I found it. Right? But maybe it was nine, 930. I get a little message in my my inbox, and it’s this woman who writes, thanks for getting back to me, period.
00;05;43;23 – 00;06;14;09
Unknown
And then leaves the conversation. And I am pissed. So I try to write her back doesn’t go through because she’s left the conversation. And then I had all these feelings about it and I’m like what what environment do we live in right now. When you tell someone if someone says what’s the expiration date. The person gives you the expiration date, you don’t answer right away because you’re going to check with someone else to find out.
00;06;14;09 – 00;06;41;27
Unknown
And then three hours later, this person sarcastically passive aggressive, aggressively and negatively writes, thanks for getting back to me. And then not only that, but decides that they get to leave the conversation after that point. And that part for me is the most angering, because you didn’t even give me an opportunity to say I understand it took a little bit longer to get back to you, but it’s because I’m checking for a friend.
00;06;41;29 – 00;06;59;23
Unknown
And I thought in that situation, you’ve missed out because you’re now angry that you think people are terrible, that they haven’t gotten back. So you don’t know the true story, so you’re miserable. You’ve shut down my ability to be able to further comment on this situation, which is really unfair because what your lead is, bitch, I don’t care.
00;06;59;23 – 00;07;23;27
Unknown
Like, what the hell you think that your opinion on what just happened is the only thing that matters? You’re looking for a quicker than three hour turnaround time, right? So I start to have all of these feelings, and I’ve gone so far as to be like, I’m going to search her out on Facebook and I’m going to send her a message because I need to let her know that it’s inappropriate, that she takes it upon herself.
00;07;23;27 – 00;07;50;18
Unknown
And I would say things like, please do. You are removing yourself from an ability to know the true story of what happened, and you’re going around nasty mad the rest of the day because you think that someone intentionally, inadvertently or not even inadvertently, intentionally decided not to get back to you. So of course I can’t stop thinking about this particular situation.
00;07;50;18 – 00;08;10;04
Unknown
And then I again, I’m still get back on the horse, right? I get back on Facebook Marketplace, and I end up meeting up with this woman and a different woman. Different woman. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I was going to say, yeah, we’re not we’re. No, no she’s not. Only did you wishes she. Wait. I found her damn address. Showed up at her front door.
00;08;10;06 – 00;08;39;00
Unknown
No, no. Definitely a baseball bat. Different. Love it. Oh, yeah. Right, right. Keep it like, I guess it’s me hitting the baseball bat, and I can’t when I get there, I know, so I found this other woman, and I go to her house, and her husband answers the door because they’re of elderly age. They’re definitely, you know, in their early 70s and they’re selling a car 60s now, this was for a different this was for a ride on fire truck, also for the same, same situation.
00;08;39;03 – 00;08;56;03
Unknown
And her husband answers the door. And you can tell the reason the husband is answering the door is to make sure that I’m not a creepy ass mother ever. Okay? And so that looks can be deceiving the woman behind him with this little fire truck, and then she comes out and she is like, hi, it’s so nice to meet you.
00;08;56;05 – 00;09;20;18
Unknown
25 minutes later, I have now sat on this woman’s porch in the rocking chair. She’s offered me a glass of iced tea. Did I want it? Yeah. I didn’t take it. We’re talking about the fire truck. We’re talking about her lawn. We’re talking about her. Her her, her daughter who had the kid who had the fire truck.
00;09;20;20 – 00;09;41;26
Unknown
We’re talking about Mother’s Day. We’re talking about where to get the best hanging baskets. We 25 minutes have this beautiful conversation, and afterwards, she sends me a message because she had called the hanging basket place, and she had asked them what their prices were, because I had asked how much for hanging baskets. She was like, I want to let you know.
00;09;41;26 – 00;09;59;22
Unknown
I called whatever the place was. Here’s the information they provided me over the phone, gave me a full on price list, said it was so nice to meet you if a beautiful soul. So glad the fire truck went to you and I carried on about my day. You didn’t go by the plant because it felt obligated since she did it later that day.
00;09;59;23 – 00;10;46;28
Unknown
I can’t, I can’t later that day I did. But here we are with the most diverse experience says on Facebook Marketplace. And my question is, what’s the difference between person A who just asked, forgets and doesn’t show up and doesn’t like? You’re so discombobulated after multiple layers of fine tuning to make sure that this happens, you completely forget that the thing, even though you know the person is going to be coming in an hour, right, and isn’t going to be able to pick it up otherwise, then you have person B who’s just a nasty, passive aggressive, rude person, and then you have person C who offers you the prices for the hanging plants because she
00;10;46;28 – 00;11;04;07
Unknown
made a phone call specific because you were curious about it. What’s what’s the difference between all of those people? H who want hedge? Now, when you’re in your 70s, you have time to chit chat.
00;11;04;09 – 00;11;16;06
Unknown
All right. Well that’s that’s it. So thank you. That was the answer right there. There you go. Done. That’s good.
00;11;16;09 – 00;11;37;12
Unknown
Scott, you have anything you want to add? Had the honor. So she’s, Don’t. For real. They have time. It’s got to be more than H. So I’m sure it’s a component of a lot of things. Like what? Some people are assholes. Why? I don’t, because they are. Because they were boring and because they were raised by banks.
00;11;37;14 – 00;11;55;23
Unknown
And don’t be on Facebook Marketplace. Exactly. Okay. I’m fine. They’re not. But you have to again, intention. They’re just selling a car, see if they want to sell the cars. Now, granted. Could they have handled it differently? Sure. But they don’t care. They’re not trying to be friends with you. Like they don’t have to be friends with. They should be friendly.
00;11;55;26 – 00;12;10;00
Unknown
They don’t have to be. They should have said hello. Now they should say, hey, are you still interested? Because I got somebody else on the line. I’m going to give you 15 more minutes to respond to me, like put some boundaries up. They’re not just chair or you don’t even have to say that if I don’t get back to you, I don’t get back to you.
00;12;10;00 – 00;12;33;12
Unknown
And then you place the sold button on it, right? Right. So then would you be pissed that they put. How is that different? No, I’m not I’m not pissed about that. Oh, that’s that is the expected response that happens on Facebook Marketplace. So it’s hi I’m interested because it’s a button that you can push. And then the person or they’ll say is this still available?
00;12;33;20 – 00;12;52;29
Unknown
And then I write the answer. Yes. The number of times I’ve written the word yes. And no one has ever gotten back to me because I don’t care. I’m going to tend to whoever the person is that says, when would I be able to pick this item up? So you’re having a reaction to the fact that she took five seconds out to say thanks for getting back to me?
00;12;52;29 – 00;13;19;11
Unknown
Yes. Interesting. And in a passive aggressive but intentionally, what she’s communicating is you bet you asked a question and you didn’t get back to me. You’re rude. So she’s basically saying, I can’t handle that. That’s rude. And then and then leaves the conversation, then literally removes herself from the conversation, which means I can’t write back because she’s escaped.
00;13;19;11 – 00;13;40;24
Unknown
She’s she’s physically removed herself. She never asked you a question? No, I asked her a question. Can you please tell me when the. So, Why is she pissed that you didn’t get back to her? Because she was something she was assuming because Aaron was inquiring about the expiration date that she was interested, and when she when she responded with the expiration date, Aaron went radio silence.
00;13;40;26 – 00;14;02;13
Unknown
So in her mind, she’s like, Aaron should have said, oh, okay, let me think about it. Or let me, let me, my friend. I’ll be in touch. Correct. She’s assuming probably what you should have done. Well, that’s what I would have done. But but either way, with what amount of time? Immediately, as soon as she sent it out, I’ve been like, okay, great, I’m going to check with my friend to see if she wants it.
00;14;02;14 – 00;14;20;09
Unknown
Yeah. Can you hold it for me or I would have, like now if I take that a step further, I think I already had made up my mind at that point that it wasn’t going to be it, because I’m not going to buy a convertible car seat from infant to five. That’s only going to last me for two years.
00;14;20;12 – 00;14;42;18
Unknown
Sure. Right. So I think in my mind, I had already made the decision. This isn’t a worthwhile investment, but I wanted to double check anyway because it’s not for me. But why didn’t you say that to that person? So at 630 in the morning, I say, how long is that? What’s the expiration date? At 715 in the morning?
00;14;42;18 – 00;15;05;10
Unknown
She says, 2021. Right. Or whatever. And then at 8:00 in the morning, I’m texting this other person to say, hey, this is my thought on this. What do you think? Okay, so those are in my mind. This all happened within, like, you guys were both in the chat at the same time, which is why it made sense that she got pissed.
00;15;05;12 – 00;15;21;20
Unknown
Oh, no. And you would never know if I was in the chat. The only thing you know is that when I respond, my face bubble moves down to look like I have responded right. But again, this was over the course of maybe three hours. So I write to this person at 8:00 and say, this is my thought on this.
00;15;21;20 – 00;15;46;02
Unknown
What do you think? What that person says, get back to me for an hour and a half in the morning, and a little I find out at 930. So from six, whatever, when I asked the question to 930 is the only amount of time that’s happened. I then go back in to say, hey, I just wanted to write, but she’s already and she’s already said, thanks for getting back to me or thanks for whatever, and then removed herself from the conversation.
00;15;46;04 – 00;16;10;21
Unknown
So the part that’s annoying to me, she doesn’t know me, right? I was detail oriented. As they come, I’m absolutely going to get back to you. I’m not going to write. So I think the part that was frustrating for me is you don’t know me. You’re taking out whatever negativity you have on other people on Facebook Marketplace. Her on the hype of she thought she was going to get a sale and I don’t.
00;16;10;21 – 00;16;52;00
Unknown
The passive aggressiveness gets my go every single time because I’m not a passive aggressive communicator. I borderline on aggressive communication. Right? I am going to aggressively, which is what I was going to respond back had she not removed herself. So I, I actually would prefer that the first situation happen where the woman is like, I’m sorry, I completely forgot that I gave her a two rating and said, if you’re going to make plans with someone, you need to follow through on those plans, especially when those plans involve someone coming in from out of town to get this product and phone numbers have been shared, locations have been shared.
00;16;52;06 – 00;17;13;24
Unknown
So you need to write yourself a note. You need to do whatever you need to make it happen. Whatever. Okay. Human error. You had to get to Longhorn Steakhouse, whatever. This second one. Here’s what pissed me off, and I just can’t get past the audacity of people. And then the fact that she laughed. I’m like, so offended that you left the conversation.
00;17;13;25 – 00;17;31;10
Unknown
What I want to be like is, bitch, what do you bitch? I mean, maybe I don’t mean bitch like rude. I mean like me. A little bitch like you can’t handle the conversation. You got to. You got to say something rude and then run away like that again. No empathy for that. I get so angry about that kind of stuff.
00;17;31;12 – 00;17;50;25
Unknown
My guess is she had a lot of inquiries, and she needed to remove you from the conversation because she couldn’t manage at all in her app. Possible. As my guest, I’ve had a lot of inquiries before and I just don’t respond to any of them. I wait for the person to write back to me. I’ve had people say to me, could you please provide me measurements?
00;17;50;28 – 00;18;11;02
Unknown
And never respond to me. Measurements involve me having to go downstairs, get my measuring tape, do whatever. Right. That’s a part of selling stuff on Facebook Marketplace I agree. Yeah I agree I, I mean it’s almost like this rift in cultural communications or cultural expectations. There is an expectation when you’re on Facebook Marketplace that this is what you’re going to get.
00;18;11;02 – 00;18;30;22
Unknown
And then I usually have the type of interactions that happen in the C scenario where the woman is just sending me, you know, hanging basket prices. Right. But it was this part that I just was having this massive reaction to. You’re making yourself angry about something you didn’t need to make yourself angry about. So in that regard, I feel bad for you.
00;18;30;25 – 00;18;57;14
Unknown
You’re also removing me from the conversation without allowing me to speak. And you don’t get that. That’s the bigger point. I mean, I think I think that that is where people tend to. Is it all the power to react or under react? But I think that they don’t allow genuine conversation to happen. So that closure closure can happen and assumptions can be erased.
00;18;57;15 – 00;19;14;17
Unknown
Right. I think that that’s the biggest problem. Right. And it’s a power play. And I don’t believe that power plays. Or maybe it wasn’t. Maybe it was truly. I’m just I mean, she didn’t have to say what she had to say, but maybe it’s truly just deleting and getting out of your inbox. But she should have just deleted it.
00;19;14;17 – 00;19;35;02
Unknown
And then if you wanted more, she you would have come back in. If it wasn’t a power play, she would not have previously said, thanks for getting back to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I’m typical keyboard commando thing where the where they say something nasty and then blocking. Yes they know what is. Yeah but I didn’t know that there being a pussy and they don’t want you to get.
00;19;35;04 – 00;19;54;14
Unknown
But then that makes me think I don’t want her negative juju in my baby’s cursing anyway. Oh, yeah. Absolutely right. Yeah, that wasn’t going to happen anyway. But what is that? What is that about people? Is it that you don’t have confidence in your ability to manage conflict? Is it I mean, this is cyberbullying, right? So it’s so much easier to be the keyboard warrior.
00;19;54;14 – 00;20;12;06
Unknown
That’s just saying a whole bunch of stuff. But we know from research that the minute that you put a kid in front of another kid, he is not going to say anything close to what it was that he typed. Right. But have you ever seen, like, those shows where the person has typed something and has to say it out loud to the person’s face?
00;20;12;06 – 00;20;30;13
Unknown
Oh yeah, and show them there’s no way. There’s no way. But you know what? I find you. Do you think you are? But it’s not just that. It’s also vulnerability. It’s funny you say that because I was listening to a couple of other people tell me that they texted their significant others their feelings, and I’m like, who the fuck does that?
00;20;30;16 – 00;20;56;18
Unknown
Oh, what do you mean? You texted? And then they were angry when that person didn’t respond. I’m like, what kind of feelings? Like, oh, the feeling hurt about what you said or I’m scared. The lightning is like, no. And what like potentially end of relationship. Oh yeah. Texting now. And I was like in my mind I’m like, who the fuck does that.
00;20;56;22 – 00;21;19;00
Unknown
Oh I’m a big fan of that strategy. Absolutely not that it’s kind of like have you seen I think the show is Love Is Blind. And they go in those rooms and they share feelings with each other and thoughts, but they don’t get to see each other. Yeah, well, one of the episodes, the couple got in an argument and the girl said, can I make a recommendation?
00;21;19;06 – 00;21;43;05
Unknown
Can you go into this room? And I go into this like that back in the pods, like we’re back in the pods. And they had this beautiful conversation that any time that healthy communication can happen in my mind, regardless of whether that’s face to face or over writing a letter or over text message or whatever. Yes, it’s knowing who you are in a relationship with.
00;21;43;07 – 00;22;13;15
Unknown
No, no. You know, for Mark and I, face to face isn’t always ideal. He gets a little tripped up because I’m coming at him so quick and I get a little over visually stimulated. And so I am like noticing every single thing that’s happening. So sometimes we do our best. Communication by touch. You’ve established that, right? There has to be an established when I come to you with deep, heavy shit in texts, I expect or we’ve, we’ve decided that this is how it’s going to be handled.
00;22;13;17 – 00;22;31;10
Unknown
Feelings get hurt when one person assumes, well, since I’m putting it in a text, it’s because I’m super vulnerable and you should know that. Yeah, and then you don’t get what you want back because maybe that person’s incapable of writing. Or it could be a thousand things. Right? But what I’m trying to say, it’s it’s got to be mutually.
00;22;31;15 – 00;22;52;27
Unknown
Yes. Determined that this is what it’s going to be because there’s some people you’re right, that can’t handle the face to face because they’re uncomfortable and they don’t want to say the wrong thing or they don’t, you know, whatever. But you just want it to have been pre discussed. It has to be this is what we do because because when you do when we’ve discussed it and we agree to it and then you still blow me off, that’s how I know you don’t care.
00;22;52;28 – 00;23;15;14
Unknown
Right. Right. Yeah. So when the keyboard warrior is saying whatever they want to say behind that, I do think that that’s inappropriate because you got to be able to say what you got to be able to say they should. You should be able to say all the things you’re thinking and feeling like, don’t talk behind someone’s back. If you’re going to say behind your back, you’ve got to be able to see it to their face regardless of how that person wants to hear it.
00;23;15;17 – 00;23;35;28
Unknown
You know. Yeah. Interesting. And so I do think it’s important that woman and I on Facebook Marketplace have never had a pre-arranged discussion about. Right. And there’s no etiquette I guess assuming right that there’s Facebook marketplace etiquette I would assume too. Yeah. And but and you are a very I’m very clear that there’s Facebook and this is the way it’s supposed to happen.
00;23;35;28 – 00;24;05;09
Unknown
And your experience. Right. Yeah. So then again, here comes this part of me that’s like that, ain’t it? That’s not how we’re supposed to do it. And by the way, that’s really bad communication, right. So that could be a part of it. But this is where this conversation goes awry. And I’ll tell you, in my 40s, one of the biggest lessons I have taken away is that once you know yourself and you know your partner or you know your best friend, or you know whoever it is that you’re trying to engage with, you get in.
00;24;05;09 – 00;24;34;23
Unknown
Then I’ve gotten in the down and dirty about conversations about who we really are and how we need to function more. So whereas in my 30s, it was just sort of assumed that you’re going to get on this page and he’s going to get on this page and this is what’s going to happen. Right? That’s a really good point and much more of a talking point in one of the changing or turning points for us was when we went on vacation to Ocean City, Maryland, and getting in the car and saying, we are not a family that’s going on vacation together again.
00;24;34;23 – 00;24;53;09
Unknown
And this is why, right? Because I felt like this. Mark felt like this. Carter felt like this, right? It just didn’t work. But instead of having judgment on that and being like, oh well, your family can’t vacation together or oh, you guys sleep in separate bedrooms is one that I hear a lot, right? Or oh, you guys right.
00;24;53;09 – 00;25;12;14
Unknown
It doesn’t matter anyone who has opinions on anyone else’s relationship. What occurs to me is the healthiest thing that could possibly happen is when you’re with that person and you’re outwardly just saying if you have something that’s really important for you to communicate, could you send it to me in a text message so I could have a little more time to process it?
00;25;12;16 – 00;25;28;11
Unknown
And then I promise you that I will respond to you. And if I can’t respond to you right away in a way that’s heartfelt, I’m going to say I care about you. I’ve read what you’ve written and I will get back to you. I’m just in the middle of, you know, doing pavement right now or whatever the case may be.
00;25;28;11 – 00;25;47;12
Unknown
Right. But what you’re talking about is establishing the expectations of who we are and how we’re going to communicate with one another. And in my 40s, I found that that’s just a much more normal, anticipated way of how we engage. But I don’t know why it took this long to to get to that, because I don’t think that’s a normal thing that people do.
00;25;47;12 – 00;26;15;27
Unknown
I was just thinking about I was just when, as you’re saying that, I’m like, I think it’s really important that we’re teaching our kids that to like, you know, mom, I can’t hear you or understand you when you talking to me? It’s like if you you know what I mean? Like just understanding. Understanding that and then reinforcing that and talking about it so that it becomes natural so that they’re, they’re able to communicate to their partners, to their friends, to their homes, ever, and say, this is what I need.
00;26;15;29 – 00;26;35;07
Unknown
This is what makes me feel the most adequate to be able to communicate back to you, or whatever, whatever it may be. I think that’s I don’t think that we have never been taught that. No, we had to figure that out on our own through a whole bunch of trial and error. That is 100% something that maybe should be figured out before you walk down the aisle to someone.
00;26;35;10 – 00;26;58;06
Unknown
100% agree. But how many people do they don’t? They don’t unless you’re lucky enough to go through some. But again, we’re like nerds, right? Like, we like personality tests and we like those kinds of things, and we like comparing and contrasting and like being we’ve always like that. Right? So I remember some of my first experiences in, in college, learning those personality things and thinking, oh my gosh, this makes so much more sense.
00;26;58;06 – 00;27;19;08
Unknown
Now I understand why I am the way that I am. I don’t necessarily think kids in high school as they’re doing that because it’s funny. I’m Taylor tells me, all of the things that she’s doing in school, and I’m like, wow, if I had done that. Truth is, I did do that. Yeah, I just didn’t care. Yeah. Or for me, it didn’t translate into, you know, this is going to be something that’s beneficial in your career.
00;27;19;08 – 00;27;34;26
Unknown
Some rest because I’m like, okay, this is an assignment for school exactly where with my daughter because she knows that you and I are both weird. She’ll come and be like, mom, look at it. Remember? Remember when she showed me her her Myers-Briggs and I’m like, that’s not you. Yeah. And she goes, what do you mean? And I go, you didn’t take that test, right?
00;27;34;28 – 00;27;47;28
Unknown
Right. She goes, why? And she’s trying to write a paper. And I go, you’re not. You can’t write that paper because it’s not you. Right. And so then he made her retake it and I coaxed her through it. I’m like, answer this question. She’s like, well, I don’t know what that means. I go, that’s why you answered it wrong, right?
00;27;47;29 – 00;28;02;25
Unknown
I go, let me tell you what this means. And then she started it, and then she got the spit out in her. Oh, yeah. The light bulb went on. Yeah. And she goes, oh my God, mom. She went right into her room and dove into that paper. And I’m thinking to myself, My God, that’s the key, right? Right there and then.
00;28;02;27 – 00;28;17;27
Unknown
Now she has conversations with that. She’s like, mom, we did the love languages test the other night. Yeah, yeah. And then she now she understands why. So here’s a stage five clinger. Yes. And she looks at me and she’s like, mom, I get it. Yeah. She’s that jealousy or whatever went away because she’s like, that’s what Sawyer needs to feel loved.
00;28;17;28 – 00;28;46;10
Unknown
Yeah. Yes, yes. For me it related to what you’re talking about. I think when it comes to Mark, there’s been a tremendous amount of judgment he’s placed on himself about who he is or how he’s supposed to be or. Right. So he, even as a man, has been a follower. Yeah, he he knows himself really, really well. It’s just been that next level of judgment associated with, well, is it okay for me to be like this?
00;28;46;12 – 00;29;05;24
Unknown
And for me, being a massive empath, it took me longer to get to the point where it was okay to me, for me to have thoughts and feelings that were my own, even if that meant that it might be a distance or yeah, between myself and other people. Yeah. So here we are going into our 40s, where he’s trying to unpack the well, this is who I really am.
00;29;05;24 – 00;29;24;21
Unknown
And it’s okay for these things to be true. Like I need more time because I’m a bit more of an introvert than I ever thought. But I don’t want to come off as rude. Right? But he’s able to now do that in an environment where I’m like, if you need to take that space, you need to take that space, you’re going to be an overall healthier human being if you’re taking that well, that hasn’t been allowed before, right?
00;29;24;21 – 00;29;44;17
Unknown
It would be more like, how come you’re not joining the family? How come you’re not doing this right? And for me to be in a place where, I mean, we joke about the social media stuff that’s been going on, but the reality is the social media stuff is about me stating my opinion that I have about something for really very clearly one of the first times in my life.
00;29;44;17 – 00;30;03;20
Unknown
And it’s been a really difficult journey for me, because I’m fearful that someone’s feelings are going to get hurt in the process. I’m fearful that when I take a stance on something and as a therapist, you don’t take a stance on things, right? You’re supposed to be vanilla, you’re a blank slate. People are supposed to put all of their their own thoughts and feelings on you.
00;30;03;23 – 00;30;23;27
Unknown
But if I have a sudden come out and say, I have a really strong feeling about this, then other people who don’t feel that way might be less connected with me. And then we’ve missed an opportunity for change to occur or for whatever. Right? Yeah. And so just again, something about this happened as soon as we got into our 40s.
00;30;23;27 – 00;30;42;11
Unknown
And then now I’m turning that around and trying to help Carter understand? Yes. Who are you as a person and person who is in their formative years and they’re experiencing things and they’re feeling things and they’re like this. They’re that, and they’re not making them feel bad about it. Yes. Right. He needs a tremendous amount of downtime. Yeah.
00;30;42;11 – 00;30;59;21
Unknown
He is not a kid that you can bring to a birthday party and then have him go do this and then have him go do that. Right. So I will say things to him like, let’s take a look at our overall weekend, knowing that you like to have time to come home and just be by yourself or go do whatever, play your Beyblades or whatever you’re doing.
00;30;59;27 – 00;31;17;12
Unknown
Does this feel like a lot? You know, and he’s now able to say, I don’t think we can do all of this stuff, or I know that basketball is going to take a lot out of me, but I don’t think I can do right. And sometimes he’ll overdo it and then he’ll notice the birthday party. Hey, mom, could you come pick me up?
00;31;17;15 – 00;31;35;19
Unknown
Because he’s got to come home because he’s all done. The other day after a tournament, they were all going to play knockout. And he’s like, no, I’m ready to go home. And I said, I just want to check in with you. I’m hearing you say that you don’t want to play knockout with the kids, and you’re willing to not do that experience so that we can head home, he said, yep, I feel like I’ve done enough today, but that’s all we got.
00;31;35;19 – 00;31;52;01
Unknown
And then we went home. But that is so brutal. And then you not giving him crap about it because of whatever, and then him feeling guilty and then he goes and does it and then he’s overstimulated and he punches someone. Now he’s in trouble. Right. It’s it’s all of that, right? Listen to your body. Understand. Right. But he needs to know.
00;31;52;01 – 00;32;10;09
Unknown
He needs to know before he gets in a marriage or has children. Yes. If you want to have children someday, you need to be prepared for what that is because that’s going to throw you on your head. Yep. You’re a kid. You’re going to be a man who needs a tremendous amount of downtime, who does not like a whole lot of stimulation, like, or over stimulation.
00;32;10;11 – 00;32;40;13
Unknown
Someone who gets very overwhelmed when X, y, Z is happening. Do you don’t want to know what it is to throw a kid in that mix all of those things, right. So I’m not saying don’t have kids, but I am saying before you get to that point, you either need to have worked on some of these things, or you need to have come to terms with the fact that this is going to look different when you throw a kiddo in the mix, and you need to be able to communicate with your partner because then your partner is resentful of you, because now you’ve disappeared, because your priorities are more important, right?
00;32;40;16 – 00;32;58;02
Unknown
Because it gets interpreted as, oh, I’m sorry. So you need more downtime. Good for you. Well, so I’m the one who actually can push through it a little bit more. Therefore it’s now on me. Right? Right. But again, those are the conversations that need to be had that none of that was in my mind before I got married.
00;32;58;02 – 00;33;19;03
Unknown
It wasn’t even anything that would have occurred to me. I knew who I was at a general sense of the word, but I didn’t know who I was going to be. As a mom. I didn’t know I was going to be as a business owner. You didn’t know, right? Any of these things? Nope. But the core of who I am in these sort of baseline things aren’t consistent.
00;33;19;06 – 00;33;45;04
Unknown
When I finally reset and realized I can only do this much in a day in order to make sure that my body and my mind are in homeostasis. That number was probably four times less than what I was doing. Oh yeah, but it took a massive upheaval in life in order to figure that out, right? Wouldn’t it have been incredible had I known that about myself before I went into all of these different things?
00;33;45;04 – 00;34;09;13
Unknown
Sure. You know. Sure. It’s really, really interesting. Yeah. All right. Hit us with it. Oh you’re going to hit us with some hippie food. But I picked it. Well this is fascinating okay. What is the seven. The chariot movement. See this is a little merman with his. It’s a merman. Oh we never had that one with two.
00;34;09;13 – 00;34;32;02
Unknown
Oh. He’s cute. They shallow. It’s a full seahorse that are pulling him in his seashell. You know what it reminds me of? Movement. When King Triton comes in in the beginning of, Little Mermaid in his shell. Yeah. I gotta find it. Yep. What number is it? Seven. Oh, you can read Roman numerals now, I took Latin, I took class.
00;34;32;03 – 00;34;55;01
Unknown
Oh, that’s right, I forgot. Right. Okay. What movement? The chariot. The charioteer is traveling. Warrior of the tarot. He holds a trident to guide him on his journey. And two seahorses carry him forward. He needs only one hand in the reins to control their decision. His willpower and determination propel him onward and keep his chariot moving in the right direction.
00;34;55;04 – 00;35;14;19
Unknown
In his seashell chariot, he is protected. The shell also symbol symbolizes his personality or the outer persona he shows to the world. So the meaning is movement. It’s time to make some serious progress. Travel is favored now as moves are connected with work. This card is also a general sign that every aspect of your life will surge forward.
00;35;14;19 – 00;35;33;11
Unknown
However, balance is necessary and you need to treat people around you with care as this card of energy. This is a card of energy rather than sensitivity. The card reveals that good timing and being aware of your ego will be essential if you’re to keep your show on the road. An additional meaning of this card is acquiring a new car or another vehicle.
00;35;33;13 – 00;35;57;17
Unknown
Advice it’s taking its time actively to move forward with your plans. Keep that ego in check when you need to and enjoy this time of power and motivation. Okay, 25,003 of you and Scott wasn’t even Scott during the last episode. There were like, oh, we got get your ego in the door. And did you not pick that letter?
00;35;57;17 – 00;36;16;01
Unknown
Absolutely I did okay. Twitter. I can’t make it funny. What do you got now? Sorry for the reality. Yeah, the reality is I was scared to death over here. The ego is just fake. The ego is like, oh, God, do we have the appropriate CEO that I put the computer you need to be in to where they need to go and think that we could use this to our best.
00;36;16;01 – 00;36;35;18
Unknown
You’re light years ahead of where you were even last year. I know. Sure, you would have taken videos 1617 times and then throwing them all away. How many videos did we not post because I couldn’t get over whatever it was? Well, look at you. I did like. I guess I’m going to say this because when you go, I’m just going to sit here in my car and tell you what I’m thinking.
00;36;35;18 – 00;36;54;15
Unknown
In fact, right, you will be on the phone. I’m like, wait, I got to record that. We got we have we have turned the corner. Hey, Bill. So Steve, my friend Steve, so was like, are the acoustics better in the car? Like you asshole. Whatever. Well, picking your hair tenses right now. The light’s better. I mean, they’re good.
00;36;54;15 – 00;37;12;05
Unknown
Sticks probably are better. Yeah. Isn’t that funny? And I have an affirmation card here. It’s called I am Secure. I know that my finances will be taken care of even when I don’t see how. Okay, that one’s for you guys. That means that for me, that I’m three, actually. Yeah. Try. Thank God you get in those 75 days.
00;37;12;06 – 00;37;27;24
Unknown
Yes. And God, you have our life and plan that my not doing that right. Do it. That’s right. One of us has to be in charge. In fact, I’m just signed up for travel basketball. I’m gonna take my all the places. That’s good. Right? Right. That’s what you’ve decided in this game plan. I’m the one who manages everything.
00;37;27;24 – 00;37;53;21
Unknown
And you’re just like the nanny. That’s fine. Assistant. That’s fine. Right? That’s right. That’s all the stuff, right. So I’ve had a video for us for a very long time that I’ve been very excited to show you. Okay. And have I seen it got. No, I don’t I don’t think so. Great. So commencement was just recently upon us right to higher ed student affairs professionals who are former student affairs hired professionals who spent many a time in commencement.
00;37;53;21 – 00;38;16;29
Unknown
I’ve always dreamed of giving some type of commencement speech, and I’m hoping that was a dream of mine. 25 K real afraid I definitely. Hi, it’s nice to see everyone here today. Have you following me on Instagram. You should. In fact, if you send me updates to go and check your Facebook request, I will politely say to you I’m not accepting personal friends.
00;38;17;01 – 00;38;44;12
Unknown
Please follow me on this. You will get a real life response from me. If you friend me on Facebook, that response will be I’m not interested, but it will still be me. Thank you for coming today. Now about commencement. But but so here’s what happened. Because I’m in charge of the CEO, and because I’ve been working very hard to make sure that our more loved podcast Facebook page is connected to the More Love Podcast Facebook group is connected to me.
00;38;44;13 – 00;39;00;12
Unknown
We have a third page now, the YouTubes. Yes, we have an extra business page because you have to have a business page in order to run ads. Do I have to post on that too? No. Okay, thank God no. But Scott, when he posts the videos, the videos end up going on there. It’s a whole thing. All right.
00;39;00;12 – 00;39;22;29
Unknown
So let’s just say that when I went in there and was starting to figure out what was in the group versus what was in our Facebook page, I realized that Scott had already created us a Facebook page forever ago, because that’s where he has to post the videos. Oh, right. Oh, but again, because I’m a creature of I have to do it and see it in order to understand it.
00;39;23;02 – 00;39;40;25
Unknown
I didn’t recognize that. So Scott, props to you. One for creating the page. I didn’t have to change the page name. It was fine. Great. I didn’t have to change that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For yourself that Rebecca and Aaron are the, the owners or the people. So so he, he he just really did a great job. Nailed it Scott nailed it.
00;39;40;25 – 00;39;54;29
Unknown
Now what I have been like Scott, what is this? This is what is this I did what right. Can I not then okay. Yeah I would have but I didn’t need to because Scott did such a great job. So then I essentially took over that page because again, I had no clue that this is something that we needed.
00;39;55;01 – 00;40;10;02
Unknown
Okay. But when I did, I found a whole bunch of messages and I found a whole bunch of like, stop it. Just things from a bunch of people that were like, oh my gosh, I saw this. And I thought of Rebecca, oh my gosh, this makes me think of you. And the gig was this whole experience. So I want to be really clear.
00;40;10;02 – 00;40;23;08
Unknown
Same is true about my personal Instagram. If I’m not getting back to you, it’s because I have no clue what I’m doing. It is not because I’m being. I don’t even know it was. Rebecca doesn’t even know we have a page. I don’t know why you’re not hearing from her. No idea. I didn’t even know it was there.
00;40;23;08 – 00;40;45;20
Unknown
And so when I went in there, someone. I think it was my friend Megan from high school had posted this commencement speech. Oh, and had said, you have to watch this like this. This is you and Rebecca. So I watched it, I loved it, I shared it with Scott. Scott’s like, I really love it and I should let’s show this okay to our listener.
00;40;45;20 – 00;41;20;26
Unknown
So one, thank you, Megan, for providing this for us. I’m glad I finally saw it probably last year at commencement when she sent it. I have no clue, but it’s finally making its way around. We’re going to do it. So the best way to spot an idiot look for the person who was cruel. Let me explain. When we see someone who doesn’t look like us, or sound like us, or act like us, or love like us, or live like us, the first thought that crosses almost everyone’s brain is rooted in either fear or judgment or both.
00;41;20;28 – 00;41;58;12
Unknown
That’s evolution. We survived as a species by being suspicious of things that we aren’t familiar with. In order to be kind, we have to shut down that animal instinct and force our brain to travel a different pathway. Empathy and compassion are evolved states of being. They require the mental capacity to step past our most primal urges. This may be a surprising assessment, because somewhere along the way, in the last few years, our society has come to believe that weaponized cruelty is part of some well thought out master plan.
00;41;58;14 – 00;42;30;10
Unknown
Cruelty is seen by some as an adroit cudgel to gain power. Empathy and kindness are considered weak. Many important people look at the vulnerable only as rungs on a ladder to the top. I’m here to tell you that when someone’s path through this world is marked with acts of cruelty, they have failed. The first test of an advanced society.
00;42;30;13 – 00;43;02;15
Unknown
Oh ding ding ding ding ding ding eyes. And my whole body is. It’s so true. I’ve never thought of it in that context. Which part? The the animal instinct. Yes. Yes. And how we as human beings. That’s how we’re formed. Is that the word like that’s, that’s an evolving is these advanced skills, which is why a lot of people don’t have them.
00;43;02;18 – 00;43;36;16
Unknown
Yes. They’re learned, they’re accepted, they’re embraced, they’re practiced. The easiest thing to do is be a judger and be cruel. That’s not that’s not intentional. Right. I’m not intentionally going to be like fucking hate your blond hair. I’m choosing to hate your blond hair. But what. Right. I don’t think that. I mean right. Wow. I just love how he.
00;43;36;19 – 00;44;11;06
Unknown
He talks about empathy and vulnerability as advanced states of being, because it’s harder to be empathic and vulnerable and to see people and the world not from a primal state of this is how we’re different. This is what I don’t like about you. This is what is unique about you compared to me. Right? That, that that is actually a normal form of response.
00;44;11;11 – 00;44;36;12
Unknown
Well, in survival at your, at your core. Right. You as a human, we needed to survive. Back in the day everything was a threat. So it’s just funny that over time and you know we put all this crap into our bodies physically like processed food and all this stuff. And so as, as our generations and as we evolved physically, things are happening.
00;44;36;12 – 00;45;15;11
Unknown
But yeah, our brains expand and evolve. And does that get passed down. Other than by actions, nature versus nurture, I don’t know. Why then, if empathy and vulnerability are higher in more advanced forms of connection, that they are not primal, why are they seen as a weakness? That’s a good question. Because if if there was this so there’s a way of being that is expected.
00;45;15;14 – 00;45;54;08
Unknown
And then if there is a higher level of being that’s available, it’s just difficult for people. Why isn’t that seen as a higher level to achieve? Because I think the message that especially in America, we get is if you stand for everything, you stand for nothing. Okay. And so therefore I think people and that’s maybe too broad, but I think sometimes people might think if I, if I have empathy or show vulnerable pity for something that I may not necessarily stand for, I’m not.
00;45;54;11 – 00;46;14;10
Unknown
I’m seen differently and I don’t want to be seen that way. I don’t know that to be true for everybody, but God forbid, you know, and I think that’s where it gets confusing sometimes when people are like, I don’t like I don’t like gay people or the act of being gay, but I love, I love you, that juxtaposition right there.
00;46;14;15 – 00;46;46;19
Unknown
Right. It’s like, how can both be true? How can you say that you don’t like this? That’s a core part of who I am. But you love me like that. Makes no sense. You know what I mean? I think so, so I am curious, though, why empathy and vulnerability specifically are seen as weaker or less advanced compared to something to aspire to?
00;46;46;21 – 00;47;13;14
Unknown
I don’t know. And then I wonder if it just takes a specific type of person or portrayal of empathy and vulnerability in order to think differently. Then the only person that’s coming to my mind right now is Mister Rogers. I love Mister Rogers. He is my answer to the question if you could have dinner with anyone, dead or alive, who would it be?
00;47;13;14 – 00;47;47;03
Unknown
It’s Mister Rogers, okay. And he was beautifully empathic and vulnerable and caring way above his time. And I never got the sense that people saw him as weak or, a lesser, you know, like an easy to plow over, you know, bullying kind of kind of thing. Right? They never saw his empathy and vulnerability is as weak I would agree with.
00;47;47;03 – 00;48;26;06
Unknown
People have seen it as beautiful. I would agree with that. And so what’s the difference between a mr. Rogers and, the kid on the playground who makes sure that some other kid is included, right? Are they seen as weak or I think amongst their peers they probably are. Right. But like, what are those factors that takes that empathy and vulnerability and turns it into something that is seen as a higher form instead of seen as a weakness because it’s going against the grain.
00;48;26;09 – 00;48;49;22
Unknown
It’s like not most people don’t naturally act that way. Most people gravitate to the crowd. And then when you it’s like swimming up, who’s the fish that goes up the stream? The salmon. Oh, you know me going against the current like going against the masses. I don’t I don’t know if I would see a high personally wouldn’t see that as a weakness.
00;48;49;22 – 00;49;19;16
Unknown
I would see that as like holy shit, that’s brief. That’s strong, that’s amazing. That’s breaking. That’s not giving two shits about what somebody may say about you. That’s confidence. But I don’t know. We joke, though, that you see aspects of my vulnerability as like I rolls. Oh my gosh, how come you’re doing that right. So this great example would be when when we talked about me responding to the people on Facebook.
00;49;19;19 – 00;49;36;23
Unknown
Who wanted to be friends with me. But my Facebook isn’t for that. Right. So we joke right. Like I, I just leave them alone. Who cares right. Why do we have to do that. So that’s an aspect of vulnerability and empathy for me right? I believe it’s kind to respond to someone who’s made the effort to say, I want to connect with you.
00;49;36;23 – 00;49;51;08
Unknown
It doesn’t need to be like, oh, tell me about yourself, right? But it can be, hey, I just wanted to let you know I see you, I appreciate you, thank you for wanting to be connected with me. And here’s some ways that you can connect with me. My personal Facebook is just I keep it a little more tight right.
00;49;51;08 – 00;50;19;20
Unknown
To people that I know specifically, you know or, or have met or have close connections with but in that situation, why, why is that not seen as a higher level of wow, that is a it’s a super power, right? It’s this sort of desire to connect with people in this certain way, like a mr. Rogers kind of thing.
00;50;19;20 – 00;50;35;14
Unknown
I would imagine he would do something similar. He wouldn’t want someone to be unseen. Right. And that would be an example because you’re not the only person that probably would feel that way. Right. Of a way where we don’t embrace or see that for what it is. We’re like, oh my God, why, why, why would you do that?
00;50;35;14 – 00;50;54;05
Unknown
It’s such a waste of time. Why would we. Right. But why is that like why, why aren’t we. It might be seen as a weakness right. It might be seen as a, you’re wasting time on something that doesn’t need your time and attention. So why in that situation is it seen more as a weakness than seen more as a.
00;50;54;07 – 00;51;26;11
Unknown
I can only answer for me. For me, my natural tendency is not to want to connect with people. I’m not the person who’s like, after the speech that that you gave as part of your job, you want to sit there and have the individual conversations with people. I want to get the fuck out over it done right. And so I view social media the same way I it’s it’s not that’s not a time to to to have other people’s needs be met.
00;51;26;14 – 00;51;43;09
Unknown
My needs to be my needs need to be met first, which is the boundary of I’m not engaging in there. So I don’t I don’t view it as a weakness. I actually view it as, wow, that’s admirable that you would take the time to individually reply to these randos, but you don’t know because they were so inspired by something you said.
00;51;43;12 – 00;51;51;17
Unknown
I don’t view that as a weakness at all.
00;51;51;20 – 00;52;22;16
Unknown
Maybe it just comes from your desire to make sure that everybody feels seen and heard. Because at the end of the day, if you can repair that hole that everybody has, I think everybody has a a feeling inside of them that at some point in time they weren’t seen. And it really feels shitty. Totally. I don’t think you’re unique, though, in having a knee jerk reaction to hearing that and immediately thinking, oh my gosh, why would we do that?
00;52;22;18 – 00;52;51;01
Unknown
Because for me, it’s an energy suck. That’s that’s a that’s a lot of energy. But therein lies a really important distinction. Something can be empathic and vulnerable and beautiful even, and you can appreciate it for what it is, even if you yourself wouldn’t do it. Oh, yeah. That’s what I don’t think people do. Well, that that I think people come off as incredibly judgmental.
00;52;51;01 – 00;53;12;26
Unknown
Good. So then the person who is doing like, here’s how it would sound differently if you were like, wow, well, I’m not surprised, knowing who you are, that you would spend all of the time doing that. And I think that’s absolutely beautiful. I wish that that level of vulnerability and empathy existed in me. And in many ways it does.
00;53;12;26 – 00;53;34;05
Unknown
It’s just not in that way. Now that’s how I would respond to somebody that’s not you. I respond to you the way I do because you and I have the my foundation of oh, here she goes again. But if it was, if it was another person who said that, that’s I would have been like, wow, that’s. But inside you’d be judging that person because only because it wouldn’t be me, right?
00;53;34;05 – 00;54;04;29
Unknown
You’d still be thinking to you. You’d say that, but you’d still be thinking consciously doing that. That’s so stupid. I mean, 100% of time doing that. Absolutely. That’s part that is part of the problem. That’s why we are where we are, because empathy doesn’t have an opportunity to continue to grow and be positively reinforced when people who do empathic acts, get downed or judged or like, hit real hard with the that’s so stupid, why are we doing that?
00;54;05;01 – 00;54;36;04
Unknown
Right? So the response I think that that specific response that we have, that internal response is the important factor that differentiates empathy and vulnerability as being something that can be seen and praised, even if we don’t feel that we want to or care to, or want to be in a position to do that. Yes, versus giving the impression that that vulnerability or that empathy is a waste of time.
00;54;36;04 – 00;55;00;19
Unknown
Why would we do it? And that’s where I think as a society, we’ve not done a really great job of differentiating the two. And those people who are huge empaths and are very vulnerable, who are constantly being negatively reinforced because we’re getting messages that that empathy is a waste of time, that vulnerability. You took away too long doing that.
00;55;00;21 – 00;55;26;10
Unknown
You didn’t set good enough boundaries with that. And look at that. You got taken advantage of. If we’re not spending time embracing the empathy and vulnerability, we’re just spending time on the aftermath because of people’s own internal reactions to either I would never do that, or I’m really uncomfortable with that, or, I don’t understand where someone would take the time to do that.
00;55;26;10 – 00;55;50;25
Unknown
And I think even if it’s just a subtle shift, right, of acknowledging first and then being like, I really respect that because I would do something very different. Now, to be fair, the opposite is also true. When you take a non empathic response, my first response to you is not I see you setting some really clear boundaries around your empathy and vulnerability because it’s too much for you when it all comes in.
00;55;50;27 – 00;56;16;00
Unknown
I’m like, you bitch! Why we you’re so nasty. Why would you do that? Right? So part of that, I think, is just normal human behavior. But I wonder what that would look like if we paused for a minute and just as a as a group spent some time really acknowledging the basis of where that was coming from and appreciated it for what it was, even if it was something that we ourselves wouldn’t do.
00;56;16;00 – 00;56;37;29
Unknown
I wonder if that changes. Maybe it doesn’t change anything, right? But I wonder what that would change. I mean, I think that’s a great question. And I think that that for me, it wouldn’t change anything because the change I made was to to appreciate and acknowledge.
00;56;38;02 – 00;57;05;22
Unknown
Something different than what I feel inside. So that is the change. The changes. Wow. Right. I can appreciate that. And I kind of got it. Am I going to do it now? Right. Your action wouldn’t change, but your acknowledgment, dead combat acknowledgment might be the thing that needs to change. Because if we want empathy and vulnerability to be seen as Mr. Rogers strong, then we need to be able to first acknowledge you and acknowledge where empathy and vulnerability exist and appreciated in that space.
00;57;05;25 – 00;57;26;10
Unknown
Many people do not acknowledge and appreciate empathy in that space, because they’re so quick to judge the shit out of it and be like, oh, you’re leaving yourself susceptible to, right? That’s reinforcing this pattern of weakness. But that’s also attributed. You can attribute that to maybe something that happened way back in the day. And so that your defense mechanisms like this so complex.
00;57;26;10 – 00;57;45;24
Unknown
Right. It’s like there’s no clear cut answer. Right. And then I could also I could also come back and say, well, how are you feeling? How how do I articulate this? Your need to respond to each individual people on the Facebook who want to be friends with you? Is it to make them be seen, or is it stroking your ego?
00;57;45;24 – 00;58;09;02
Unknown
That’s like, oh, I feel good about this because they reached out to me. Now I’m not accusing no, no, no, no. I’m just saying that’s another side of the sword, right? Where a person who can just let it go and disregard it doesn’t care about any of that, right? Maybe. Right. Right. Or or do you care because you can’t trust yourself to not engage in really long conversations with these people who time suck you.
00;58;09;05 – 00;58;33;19
Unknown
Right? Right. So like when you start nitpicking, getting really, really done, that would take a long time, right? To like really dissect this just one situation, right? Right, right. And so and then of course, you have the, the compounded ness of you have terrible boundaries and then you work on it and then you pick and choose where, you know, it’s so complex that even getting it down to just one little simple nuance of a word can change everything.
00;58;33;22 – 00;58;50;20
Unknown
So I don’t know, I don’t know, but I guess I don’t see it. It’s funny because that resonated with me the the speech. But then when you, when I start talking about it I don’t see empathy and vulnerability as a weakness. I actually see it as something that I wish I could do and be comfortable with because it is admirable.
00;58;50;22 – 00;59;16;29
Unknown
Yeah, very much so. It’s just not in my comfort zone. So to engage in that feels really icky. Yeah. Really I would love to hear some of our listeners feedback. Yeah. And how they relate to that and which part identifies with them. And also because they’ve gotten to know you over two seasons as well. I’d love to hear specifically when they hear you say that I love empathy, I care about empathy.
00;59;16;29 – 00;59;43;15
Unknown
I very much see to exist, and I can’t do it because of all of these different hands. I internally do it. It’s hard for me to vocalize it. Yeah, or to engage in a conversation or to, process it. Maybe because it just doesn’t end. So for me to turn it off real quick right. And just disengage and pretend it’s not there, right, is so much easier.
00;59;43;15 – 01;00;00;15
Unknown
Right. It’s so much easier for me to get through the day because it’s the hamster wheel, right. It’s the once you turn the faucet on right now it’s, it’s I can’t I can’t let it go. I can’t let it go. I can’t let it go. Like you. You can’t let go. That woman on the Facebook. Like I have to turn that off fast because it’s coming all.
01;00;00;15 – 01;00;14;12
Unknown
All the angles. Yeah, all the angles. I’m the person that if somebody texts me, even if I haven’t talked to you in 30 years and you’re like, can we talk for a second? That immediately brings me down a rabbit hole and you’re like, what? I’m like, I’ve already told the story, right? I’ve already decided this is what it is.
01;00;14;12 – 01;00;34;17
Unknown
And that is way too much for me, right? Way too much. I don’t know if that’s empathy or trauma response what I’m saying, but it’s an interesting it’s an interesting comparison. But that’s this whole show, right? Right. So here I am, empathic and and loving and seeing all of these sides. And you’re the one that’s like, oh my god.
01;00;34;17 – 01;00;54;14
Unknown
Nope. I don’t feel any of that. And I’m like, except you do, right? You do feel all of that. And the problem is you feel all of it too deeply. Right and all. Yeah, right. Oh, wait, wait, I don’t know if we have it. Oh, it’s taken away. We haven’t used it in so long it disappears. It’s like when the emoji that you loved and you don’t use it in a long time has gone.
01;00;54;15 – 01;01;14;03
Unknown
Oh yeah. Yeah, right. You got to find it. Keep pushing the emoji over and over and over again. Because you want to make sure that that piece of fish on that right stays there. There now. Yeah. Oh there. Oh turn it off like a light switch. Stir. It is true I’m sure. Good. Yeah. Really interesting. So thank you Megan for sending us that.
01;01;14;03 – 01;01;32;24
Unknown
Yeah that was awesome. Video clip. Keep sending us stuff guys. We’ll get to it in the next couple of years. Maybe. You know, maybe I think probably we don’t know. So I don’t know. We’ll do our best. Have a good day I loved that. Me too is an empathy. Amazing. Well we’re amazing. I don’t know about all this empathy stuff.
01;01;33;02 – 01;01;49;19
Unknown
That’s fine. Except you, wherever you are. Oh, God, I love you. I love you too. And if you love us, please like and subscribe to more. Love the power of empathy podcast wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.
Unknown
Hey, it’s me Erin. Thanks for joining us on the Moor Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside. But the truth is, she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Here she comes. Hey, bestie. Hi, love. What are you doing?
00;00;31;06 – 00;00;56;13
Unknown
Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast about what? Our life. Our life as best friends who are more like sisters. Oh, yay, I love this, and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world. Especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right to be our most authentic selves. Oh, man. Okay.
00;00;56;15 – 00;01;22;14
Unknown
I got to tell you this story about Facebook Marketplace. Oh, Jesus. I know, Scott, do you like Facebook Marketplace? Well, do you use Facebook Marketplace? No, but my wife does, and we were having a conversation about it yesterday. Oh, why? Because she asked you to go pick something up. Because she was afraid for her life or. No. Oh, well, I was the one that said that you shouldn’t go by herself.
00;01;22;17 – 00;01;42;10
Unknown
Oh yeah. She’s like why I prefer. I’m like because you don’t know what the hell. I mean what are you selling. I think it depends on buying or selling what you’re buying or selling. We’re buying. Okay. So if you’re I mean it depends on what you’re buying. Wow. Really. I mean interesting. A cooler. Oh yeah. Oh you say those people are fine.
00;01;42;13 – 00;02;02;16
Unknown
Oh people are like, hey, you know what it is? They’re out there like I’m sick and tired of my kids and fucking sports. Okay, buy this cooler. Okay. That’s what it is. That’s what it is. Okay? It’s just discrimination by item. Yes. Yeah. That’s right. That’s what it is. Well, you know, I’m a big Facebook Marketplace person. I love Facebook Marketplace.
00;02;02;18 – 00;02;20;02
Unknown
I do a lot of Facebook Marketplace. I do Facebook Marketplace for other people who have things that they want to sell. I just really enjoy the experience. And I’m very apparently unique in that regard because many people just hate it. They just hate it. They don’t want to go back and forth. They don’t want to answer the questions they don’t want or whatever.
00;02;20;02 – 00;02;46;11
Unknown
Well, I have a really great track record of not getting stirred up by people I’ve never. Knock on wood. Been stiffed by someone? Usually people don’t are rude to me, right. So I just have a decent, decent track record. So I’m looking for some items for a friend. Some baby items for a friend. And, she had asked me to look for.
00;02;46;14 – 00;03;14;04
Unknown
I think it was one of the items was a car seat. I have not looked for a car in a really long time. Right. So I had to go back and remind myself from the manufacturer’s date, the date of expiration. It’s really only seven years, right? So if you’re not going to get a car, see if you’re going to get a converter car seat that goes from infant all the way up to six years old, but you only have two years left on your, you know, warranty, if you will.
00;03;14;04 – 00;03;40;08
Unknown
That’s not going to work. So there’s just some math involved right off what I’m trying to figure out. So, I get this situation set up. This person’s going to go meet the other person out at Longhorn Steakhouse or something like that, or wherever this person means. It’s this huge ordeal that they have to do this. You know, they’ve had to share phone numbers and they’d have to connect with each other and make sure they were going to meet at a certain time.
00;03;40;08 – 00;03;53;28
Unknown
And, oh, well, I’m coming in from out of town. And so I’m not going to it’s like a huge ordeal. And the person that I’m helping find the item is like, are you sure that this person is going to be there and everything’s going to be great? And I’m like, yes, there’s no reason this person would be there.
00;03;53;28 – 00;04;15;06
Unknown
It’ll be completely fine. Well, true to form, this person at the last minute says, oh, sorry, I forgot to bring the car seat. So, sorry you drove an hour to come pick the car seat, and you were here for an event and, this person had to be in town for an event. They had driven an hour for this event, and we’re going to pick up the car seat.
00;04;15;08 – 00;04;32;22
Unknown
So they didn’t come in just a bit just for it. Right. But. And then was like, sorry, I just don’t have it. Right. And so this person’s like, okay, so I think we’re one for one on how these situations happen. I said, I’m sorry. I think it’s your energy. I think it must be you. This never happens to me.
00;04;32;22 – 00;04;54;22
Unknown
Right? I’m really sorry that this had happened. So then I’m like, okay, well, I that’s I guess it’s not my negotiation, that’s for sure, because I’m really good at that. So then it gets to me trying to find a car seat and another car seat, and I go, and I find this car seat. That seems to be a good option.
00;04;54;22 – 00;05;18;13
Unknown
It’s $35, which is a reasonable price, but again, it only has two years left on its expiration date and I need it to last a good five years. So I ask for the expiration date. And the person says tells me the date. And then I put a pin in it for a minute and I go to my friend and say, hey, just wanted to check in.
00;05;18;13 – 00;05;43;23
Unknown
This is the situation that we’re having. My gut sense is that we don’t take this because of whatever reasons. Well, it takes her a decent amount of time to get back to me because I don’t know, it was six in the morning when I found it. Right? But maybe it was nine, 930. I get a little message in my my inbox, and it’s this woman who writes, thanks for getting back to me, period.
00;05;43;23 – 00;06;14;09
Unknown
And then leaves the conversation. And I am pissed. So I try to write her back doesn’t go through because she’s left the conversation. And then I had all these feelings about it and I’m like what what environment do we live in right now. When you tell someone if someone says what’s the expiration date. The person gives you the expiration date, you don’t answer right away because you’re going to check with someone else to find out.
00;06;14;09 – 00;06;41;27
Unknown
And then three hours later, this person sarcastically passive aggressive, aggressively and negatively writes, thanks for getting back to me. And then not only that, but decides that they get to leave the conversation after that point. And that part for me is the most angering, because you didn’t even give me an opportunity to say I understand it took a little bit longer to get back to you, but it’s because I’m checking for a friend.
00;06;41;29 – 00;06;59;23
Unknown
And I thought in that situation, you’ve missed out because you’re now angry that you think people are terrible, that they haven’t gotten back. So you don’t know the true story, so you’re miserable. You’ve shut down my ability to be able to further comment on this situation, which is really unfair because what your lead is, bitch, I don’t care.
00;06;59;23 – 00;07;23;27
Unknown
Like, what the hell you think that your opinion on what just happened is the only thing that matters? You’re looking for a quicker than three hour turnaround time, right? So I start to have all of these feelings, and I’ve gone so far as to be like, I’m going to search her out on Facebook and I’m going to send her a message because I need to let her know that it’s inappropriate, that she takes it upon herself.
00;07;23;27 – 00;07;50;18
Unknown
And I would say things like, please do. You are removing yourself from an ability to know the true story of what happened, and you’re going around nasty mad the rest of the day because you think that someone intentionally, inadvertently or not even inadvertently, intentionally decided not to get back to you. So of course I can’t stop thinking about this particular situation.
00;07;50;18 – 00;08;10;04
Unknown
And then I again, I’m still get back on the horse, right? I get back on Facebook Marketplace, and I end up meeting up with this woman and a different woman. Different woman. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I was going to say, yeah, we’re not we’re. No, no she’s not. Only did you wishes she. Wait. I found her damn address. Showed up at her front door.
00;08;10;06 – 00;08;39;00
Unknown
No, no. Definitely a baseball bat. Different. Love it. Oh, yeah. Right, right. Keep it like, I guess it’s me hitting the baseball bat, and I can’t when I get there, I know, so I found this other woman, and I go to her house, and her husband answers the door because they’re of elderly age. They’re definitely, you know, in their early 70s and they’re selling a car 60s now, this was for a different this was for a ride on fire truck, also for the same, same situation.
00;08;39;03 – 00;08;56;03
Unknown
And her husband answers the door. And you can tell the reason the husband is answering the door is to make sure that I’m not a creepy ass mother ever. Okay? And so that looks can be deceiving the woman behind him with this little fire truck, and then she comes out and she is like, hi, it’s so nice to meet you.
00;08;56;05 – 00;09;20;18
Unknown
25 minutes later, I have now sat on this woman’s porch in the rocking chair. She’s offered me a glass of iced tea. Did I want it? Yeah. I didn’t take it. We’re talking about the fire truck. We’re talking about her lawn. We’re talking about her. Her her, her daughter who had the kid who had the fire truck.
00;09;20;20 – 00;09;41;26
Unknown
We’re talking about Mother’s Day. We’re talking about where to get the best hanging baskets. We 25 minutes have this beautiful conversation, and afterwards, she sends me a message because she had called the hanging basket place, and she had asked them what their prices were, because I had asked how much for hanging baskets. She was like, I want to let you know.
00;09;41;26 – 00;09;59;22
Unknown
I called whatever the place was. Here’s the information they provided me over the phone, gave me a full on price list, said it was so nice to meet you if a beautiful soul. So glad the fire truck went to you and I carried on about my day. You didn’t go by the plant because it felt obligated since she did it later that day.
00;09;59;23 – 00;10;46;28
Unknown
I can’t, I can’t later that day I did. But here we are with the most diverse experience says on Facebook Marketplace. And my question is, what’s the difference between person A who just asked, forgets and doesn’t show up and doesn’t like? You’re so discombobulated after multiple layers of fine tuning to make sure that this happens, you completely forget that the thing, even though you know the person is going to be coming in an hour, right, and isn’t going to be able to pick it up otherwise, then you have person B who’s just a nasty, passive aggressive, rude person, and then you have person C who offers you the prices for the hanging plants because she
00;10;46;28 – 00;11;04;07
Unknown
made a phone call specific because you were curious about it. What’s what’s the difference between all of those people? H who want hedge? Now, when you’re in your 70s, you have time to chit chat.
00;11;04;09 – 00;11;16;06
Unknown
All right. Well that’s that’s it. So thank you. That was the answer right there. There you go. Done. That’s good.
00;11;16;09 – 00;11;37;12
Unknown
Scott, you have anything you want to add? Had the honor. So she’s, Don’t. For real. They have time. It’s got to be more than H. So I’m sure it’s a component of a lot of things. Like what? Some people are assholes. Why? I don’t, because they are. Because they were boring and because they were raised by banks.
00;11;37;14 – 00;11;55;23
Unknown
And don’t be on Facebook Marketplace. Exactly. Okay. I’m fine. They’re not. But you have to again, intention. They’re just selling a car, see if they want to sell the cars. Now, granted. Could they have handled it differently? Sure. But they don’t care. They’re not trying to be friends with you. Like they don’t have to be friends with. They should be friendly.
00;11;55;26 – 00;12;10;00
Unknown
They don’t have to be. They should have said hello. Now they should say, hey, are you still interested? Because I got somebody else on the line. I’m going to give you 15 more minutes to respond to me, like put some boundaries up. They’re not just chair or you don’t even have to say that if I don’t get back to you, I don’t get back to you.
00;12;10;00 – 00;12;33;12
Unknown
And then you place the sold button on it, right? Right. So then would you be pissed that they put. How is that different? No, I’m not I’m not pissed about that. Oh, that’s that is the expected response that happens on Facebook Marketplace. So it’s hi I’m interested because it’s a button that you can push. And then the person or they’ll say is this still available?
00;12;33;20 – 00;12;52;29
Unknown
And then I write the answer. Yes. The number of times I’ve written the word yes. And no one has ever gotten back to me because I don’t care. I’m going to tend to whoever the person is that says, when would I be able to pick this item up? So you’re having a reaction to the fact that she took five seconds out to say thanks for getting back to me?
00;12;52;29 – 00;13;19;11
Unknown
Yes. Interesting. And in a passive aggressive but intentionally, what she’s communicating is you bet you asked a question and you didn’t get back to me. You’re rude. So she’s basically saying, I can’t handle that. That’s rude. And then and then leaves the conversation, then literally removes herself from the conversation, which means I can’t write back because she’s escaped.
00;13;19;11 – 00;13;40;24
Unknown
She’s she’s physically removed herself. She never asked you a question? No, I asked her a question. Can you please tell me when the. So, Why is she pissed that you didn’t get back to her? Because she was something she was assuming because Aaron was inquiring about the expiration date that she was interested, and when she when she responded with the expiration date, Aaron went radio silence.
00;13;40;26 – 00;14;02;13
Unknown
So in her mind, she’s like, Aaron should have said, oh, okay, let me think about it. Or let me, let me, my friend. I’ll be in touch. Correct. She’s assuming probably what you should have done. Well, that’s what I would have done. But but either way, with what amount of time? Immediately, as soon as she sent it out, I’ve been like, okay, great, I’m going to check with my friend to see if she wants it.
00;14;02;14 – 00;14;20;09
Unknown
Yeah. Can you hold it for me or I would have, like now if I take that a step further, I think I already had made up my mind at that point that it wasn’t going to be it, because I’m not going to buy a convertible car seat from infant to five. That’s only going to last me for two years.
00;14;20;12 – 00;14;42;18
Unknown
Sure. Right. So I think in my mind, I had already made the decision. This isn’t a worthwhile investment, but I wanted to double check anyway because it’s not for me. But why didn’t you say that to that person? So at 630 in the morning, I say, how long is that? What’s the expiration date? At 715 in the morning?
00;14;42;18 – 00;15;05;10
Unknown
She says, 2021. Right. Or whatever. And then at 8:00 in the morning, I’m texting this other person to say, hey, this is my thought on this. What do you think? Okay, so those are in my mind. This all happened within, like, you guys were both in the chat at the same time, which is why it made sense that she got pissed.
00;15;05;12 – 00;15;21;20
Unknown
Oh, no. And you would never know if I was in the chat. The only thing you know is that when I respond, my face bubble moves down to look like I have responded right. But again, this was over the course of maybe three hours. So I write to this person at 8:00 and say, this is my thought on this.
00;15;21;20 – 00;15;46;02
Unknown
What do you think? What that person says, get back to me for an hour and a half in the morning, and a little I find out at 930. So from six, whatever, when I asked the question to 930 is the only amount of time that’s happened. I then go back in to say, hey, I just wanted to write, but she’s already and she’s already said, thanks for getting back to me or thanks for whatever, and then removed herself from the conversation.
00;15;46;04 – 00;16;10;21
Unknown
So the part that’s annoying to me, she doesn’t know me, right? I was detail oriented. As they come, I’m absolutely going to get back to you. I’m not going to write. So I think the part that was frustrating for me is you don’t know me. You’re taking out whatever negativity you have on other people on Facebook Marketplace. Her on the hype of she thought she was going to get a sale and I don’t.
00;16;10;21 – 00;16;52;00
Unknown
The passive aggressiveness gets my go every single time because I’m not a passive aggressive communicator. I borderline on aggressive communication. Right? I am going to aggressively, which is what I was going to respond back had she not removed herself. So I, I actually would prefer that the first situation happen where the woman is like, I’m sorry, I completely forgot that I gave her a two rating and said, if you’re going to make plans with someone, you need to follow through on those plans, especially when those plans involve someone coming in from out of town to get this product and phone numbers have been shared, locations have been shared.
00;16;52;06 – 00;17;13;24
Unknown
So you need to write yourself a note. You need to do whatever you need to make it happen. Whatever. Okay. Human error. You had to get to Longhorn Steakhouse, whatever. This second one. Here’s what pissed me off, and I just can’t get past the audacity of people. And then the fact that she laughed. I’m like, so offended that you left the conversation.
00;17;13;25 – 00;17;31;10
Unknown
What I want to be like is, bitch, what do you bitch? I mean, maybe I don’t mean bitch like rude. I mean like me. A little bitch like you can’t handle the conversation. You got to. You got to say something rude and then run away like that again. No empathy for that. I get so angry about that kind of stuff.
00;17;31;12 – 00;17;50;25
Unknown
My guess is she had a lot of inquiries, and she needed to remove you from the conversation because she couldn’t manage at all in her app. Possible. As my guest, I’ve had a lot of inquiries before and I just don’t respond to any of them. I wait for the person to write back to me. I’ve had people say to me, could you please provide me measurements?
00;17;50;28 – 00;18;11;02
Unknown
And never respond to me. Measurements involve me having to go downstairs, get my measuring tape, do whatever. Right. That’s a part of selling stuff on Facebook Marketplace I agree. Yeah I agree I, I mean it’s almost like this rift in cultural communications or cultural expectations. There is an expectation when you’re on Facebook Marketplace that this is what you’re going to get.
00;18;11;02 – 00;18;30;22
Unknown
And then I usually have the type of interactions that happen in the C scenario where the woman is just sending me, you know, hanging basket prices. Right. But it was this part that I just was having this massive reaction to. You’re making yourself angry about something you didn’t need to make yourself angry about. So in that regard, I feel bad for you.
00;18;30;25 – 00;18;57;14
Unknown
You’re also removing me from the conversation without allowing me to speak. And you don’t get that. That’s the bigger point. I mean, I think I think that that is where people tend to. Is it all the power to react or under react? But I think that they don’t allow genuine conversation to happen. So that closure closure can happen and assumptions can be erased.
00;18;57;15 – 00;19;14;17
Unknown
Right. I think that that’s the biggest problem. Right. And it’s a power play. And I don’t believe that power plays. Or maybe it wasn’t. Maybe it was truly. I’m just I mean, she didn’t have to say what she had to say, but maybe it’s truly just deleting and getting out of your inbox. But she should have just deleted it.
00;19;14;17 – 00;19;35;02
Unknown
And then if you wanted more, she you would have come back in. If it wasn’t a power play, she would not have previously said, thanks for getting back to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I’m typical keyboard commando thing where the where they say something nasty and then blocking. Yes they know what is. Yeah but I didn’t know that there being a pussy and they don’t want you to get.
00;19;35;04 – 00;19;54;14
Unknown
But then that makes me think I don’t want her negative juju in my baby’s cursing anyway. Oh, yeah. Absolutely right. Yeah, that wasn’t going to happen anyway. But what is that? What is that about people? Is it that you don’t have confidence in your ability to manage conflict? Is it I mean, this is cyberbullying, right? So it’s so much easier to be the keyboard warrior.
00;19;54;14 – 00;20;12;06
Unknown
That’s just saying a whole bunch of stuff. But we know from research that the minute that you put a kid in front of another kid, he is not going to say anything close to what it was that he typed. Right. But have you ever seen, like, those shows where the person has typed something and has to say it out loud to the person’s face?
00;20;12;06 – 00;20;30;13
Unknown
Oh yeah, and show them there’s no way. There’s no way. But you know what? I find you. Do you think you are? But it’s not just that. It’s also vulnerability. It’s funny you say that because I was listening to a couple of other people tell me that they texted their significant others their feelings, and I’m like, who the fuck does that?
00;20;30;16 – 00;20;56;18
Unknown
Oh, what do you mean? You texted? And then they were angry when that person didn’t respond. I’m like, what kind of feelings? Like, oh, the feeling hurt about what you said or I’m scared. The lightning is like, no. And what like potentially end of relationship. Oh yeah. Texting now. And I was like in my mind I’m like, who the fuck does that.
00;20;56;22 – 00;21;19;00
Unknown
Oh I’m a big fan of that strategy. Absolutely not that it’s kind of like have you seen I think the show is Love Is Blind. And they go in those rooms and they share feelings with each other and thoughts, but they don’t get to see each other. Yeah, well, one of the episodes, the couple got in an argument and the girl said, can I make a recommendation?
00;21;19;06 – 00;21;43;05
Unknown
Can you go into this room? And I go into this like that back in the pods, like we’re back in the pods. And they had this beautiful conversation that any time that healthy communication can happen in my mind, regardless of whether that’s face to face or over writing a letter or over text message or whatever. Yes, it’s knowing who you are in a relationship with.
00;21;43;07 – 00;22;13;15
Unknown
No, no. You know, for Mark and I, face to face isn’t always ideal. He gets a little tripped up because I’m coming at him so quick and I get a little over visually stimulated. And so I am like noticing every single thing that’s happening. So sometimes we do our best. Communication by touch. You’ve established that, right? There has to be an established when I come to you with deep, heavy shit in texts, I expect or we’ve, we’ve decided that this is how it’s going to be handled.
00;22;13;17 – 00;22;31;10
Unknown
Feelings get hurt when one person assumes, well, since I’m putting it in a text, it’s because I’m super vulnerable and you should know that. Yeah, and then you don’t get what you want back because maybe that person’s incapable of writing. Or it could be a thousand things. Right? But what I’m trying to say, it’s it’s got to be mutually.
00;22;31;15 – 00;22;52;27
Unknown
Yes. Determined that this is what it’s going to be because there’s some people you’re right, that can’t handle the face to face because they’re uncomfortable and they don’t want to say the wrong thing or they don’t, you know, whatever. But you just want it to have been pre discussed. It has to be this is what we do because because when you do when we’ve discussed it and we agree to it and then you still blow me off, that’s how I know you don’t care.
00;22;52;28 – 00;23;15;14
Unknown
Right. Right. Yeah. So when the keyboard warrior is saying whatever they want to say behind that, I do think that that’s inappropriate because you got to be able to say what you got to be able to say they should. You should be able to say all the things you’re thinking and feeling like, don’t talk behind someone’s back. If you’re going to say behind your back, you’ve got to be able to see it to their face regardless of how that person wants to hear it.
00;23;15;17 – 00;23;35;28
Unknown
You know. Yeah. Interesting. And so I do think it’s important that woman and I on Facebook Marketplace have never had a pre-arranged discussion about. Right. And there’s no etiquette I guess assuming right that there’s Facebook marketplace etiquette I would assume too. Yeah. And but and you are a very I’m very clear that there’s Facebook and this is the way it’s supposed to happen.
00;23;35;28 – 00;24;05;09
Unknown
And your experience. Right. Yeah. So then again, here comes this part of me that’s like that, ain’t it? That’s not how we’re supposed to do it. And by the way, that’s really bad communication, right. So that could be a part of it. But this is where this conversation goes awry. And I’ll tell you, in my 40s, one of the biggest lessons I have taken away is that once you know yourself and you know your partner or you know your best friend, or you know whoever it is that you’re trying to engage with, you get in.
00;24;05;09 – 00;24;34;23
Unknown
Then I’ve gotten in the down and dirty about conversations about who we really are and how we need to function more. So whereas in my 30s, it was just sort of assumed that you’re going to get on this page and he’s going to get on this page and this is what’s going to happen. Right? That’s a really good point and much more of a talking point in one of the changing or turning points for us was when we went on vacation to Ocean City, Maryland, and getting in the car and saying, we are not a family that’s going on vacation together again.
00;24;34;23 – 00;24;53;09
Unknown
And this is why, right? Because I felt like this. Mark felt like this. Carter felt like this, right? It just didn’t work. But instead of having judgment on that and being like, oh well, your family can’t vacation together or oh, you guys sleep in separate bedrooms is one that I hear a lot, right? Or oh, you guys right.
00;24;53;09 – 00;25;12;14
Unknown
It doesn’t matter anyone who has opinions on anyone else’s relationship. What occurs to me is the healthiest thing that could possibly happen is when you’re with that person and you’re outwardly just saying if you have something that’s really important for you to communicate, could you send it to me in a text message so I could have a little more time to process it?
00;25;12;16 – 00;25;28;11
Unknown
And then I promise you that I will respond to you. And if I can’t respond to you right away in a way that’s heartfelt, I’m going to say I care about you. I’ve read what you’ve written and I will get back to you. I’m just in the middle of, you know, doing pavement right now or whatever the case may be.
00;25;28;11 – 00;25;47;12
Unknown
Right. But what you’re talking about is establishing the expectations of who we are and how we’re going to communicate with one another. And in my 40s, I found that that’s just a much more normal, anticipated way of how we engage. But I don’t know why it took this long to to get to that, because I don’t think that’s a normal thing that people do.
00;25;47;12 – 00;26;15;27
Unknown
I was just thinking about I was just when, as you’re saying that, I’m like, I think it’s really important that we’re teaching our kids that to like, you know, mom, I can’t hear you or understand you when you talking to me? It’s like if you you know what I mean? Like just understanding. Understanding that and then reinforcing that and talking about it so that it becomes natural so that they’re, they’re able to communicate to their partners, to their friends, to their homes, ever, and say, this is what I need.
00;26;15;29 – 00;26;35;07
Unknown
This is what makes me feel the most adequate to be able to communicate back to you, or whatever, whatever it may be. I think that’s I don’t think that we have never been taught that. No, we had to figure that out on our own through a whole bunch of trial and error. That is 100% something that maybe should be figured out before you walk down the aisle to someone.
00;26;35;10 – 00;26;58;06
Unknown
100% agree. But how many people do they don’t? They don’t unless you’re lucky enough to go through some. But again, we’re like nerds, right? Like, we like personality tests and we like those kinds of things, and we like comparing and contrasting and like being we’ve always like that. Right? So I remember some of my first experiences in, in college, learning those personality things and thinking, oh my gosh, this makes so much more sense.
00;26;58;06 – 00;27;19;08
Unknown
Now I understand why I am the way that I am. I don’t necessarily think kids in high school as they’re doing that because it’s funny. I’m Taylor tells me, all of the things that she’s doing in school, and I’m like, wow, if I had done that. Truth is, I did do that. Yeah, I just didn’t care. Yeah. Or for me, it didn’t translate into, you know, this is going to be something that’s beneficial in your career.
00;27;19;08 – 00;27;34;26
Unknown
Some rest because I’m like, okay, this is an assignment for school exactly where with my daughter because she knows that you and I are both weird. She’ll come and be like, mom, look at it. Remember? Remember when she showed me her her Myers-Briggs and I’m like, that’s not you. Yeah. And she goes, what do you mean? And I go, you didn’t take that test, right?
00;27;34;28 – 00;27;47;28
Unknown
Right. She goes, why? And she’s trying to write a paper. And I go, you’re not. You can’t write that paper because it’s not you. Right. And so then he made her retake it and I coaxed her through it. I’m like, answer this question. She’s like, well, I don’t know what that means. I go, that’s why you answered it wrong, right?
00;27;47;29 – 00;28;02;25
Unknown
I go, let me tell you what this means. And then she started it, and then she got the spit out in her. Oh, yeah. The light bulb went on. Yeah. And she goes, oh my God, mom. She went right into her room and dove into that paper. And I’m thinking to myself, My God, that’s the key, right? Right there and then.
00;28;02;27 – 00;28;17;27
Unknown
Now she has conversations with that. She’s like, mom, we did the love languages test the other night. Yeah, yeah. And then she now she understands why. So here’s a stage five clinger. Yes. And she looks at me and she’s like, mom, I get it. Yeah. She’s that jealousy or whatever went away because she’s like, that’s what Sawyer needs to feel loved.
00;28;17;28 – 00;28;46;10
Unknown
Yeah. Yes, yes. For me it related to what you’re talking about. I think when it comes to Mark, there’s been a tremendous amount of judgment he’s placed on himself about who he is or how he’s supposed to be or. Right. So he, even as a man, has been a follower. Yeah, he he knows himself really, really well. It’s just been that next level of judgment associated with, well, is it okay for me to be like this?
00;28;46;12 – 00;29;05;24
Unknown
And for me, being a massive empath, it took me longer to get to the point where it was okay to me, for me to have thoughts and feelings that were my own, even if that meant that it might be a distance or yeah, between myself and other people. Yeah. So here we are going into our 40s, where he’s trying to unpack the well, this is who I really am.
00;29;05;24 – 00;29;24;21
Unknown
And it’s okay for these things to be true. Like I need more time because I’m a bit more of an introvert than I ever thought. But I don’t want to come off as rude. Right? But he’s able to now do that in an environment where I’m like, if you need to take that space, you need to take that space, you’re going to be an overall healthier human being if you’re taking that well, that hasn’t been allowed before, right?
00;29;24;21 – 00;29;44;17
Unknown
It would be more like, how come you’re not joining the family? How come you’re not doing this right? And for me to be in a place where, I mean, we joke about the social media stuff that’s been going on, but the reality is the social media stuff is about me stating my opinion that I have about something for really very clearly one of the first times in my life.
00;29;44;17 – 00;30;03;20
Unknown
And it’s been a really difficult journey for me, because I’m fearful that someone’s feelings are going to get hurt in the process. I’m fearful that when I take a stance on something and as a therapist, you don’t take a stance on things, right? You’re supposed to be vanilla, you’re a blank slate. People are supposed to put all of their their own thoughts and feelings on you.
00;30;03;23 – 00;30;23;27
Unknown
But if I have a sudden come out and say, I have a really strong feeling about this, then other people who don’t feel that way might be less connected with me. And then we’ve missed an opportunity for change to occur or for whatever. Right? Yeah. And so just again, something about this happened as soon as we got into our 40s.
00;30;23;27 – 00;30;42;11
Unknown
And then now I’m turning that around and trying to help Carter understand? Yes. Who are you as a person and person who is in their formative years and they’re experiencing things and they’re feeling things and they’re like this. They’re that, and they’re not making them feel bad about it. Yes. Right. He needs a tremendous amount of downtime. Yeah.
00;30;42;11 – 00;30;59;21
Unknown
He is not a kid that you can bring to a birthday party and then have him go do this and then have him go do that. Right. So I will say things to him like, let’s take a look at our overall weekend, knowing that you like to have time to come home and just be by yourself or go do whatever, play your Beyblades or whatever you’re doing.
00;30;59;27 – 00;31;17;12
Unknown
Does this feel like a lot? You know, and he’s now able to say, I don’t think we can do all of this stuff, or I know that basketball is going to take a lot out of me, but I don’t think I can do right. And sometimes he’ll overdo it and then he’ll notice the birthday party. Hey, mom, could you come pick me up?
00;31;17;15 – 00;31;35;19
Unknown
Because he’s got to come home because he’s all done. The other day after a tournament, they were all going to play knockout. And he’s like, no, I’m ready to go home. And I said, I just want to check in with you. I’m hearing you say that you don’t want to play knockout with the kids, and you’re willing to not do that experience so that we can head home, he said, yep, I feel like I’ve done enough today, but that’s all we got.
00;31;35;19 – 00;31;52;01
Unknown
And then we went home. But that is so brutal. And then you not giving him crap about it because of whatever, and then him feeling guilty and then he goes and does it and then he’s overstimulated and he punches someone. Now he’s in trouble. Right. It’s it’s all of that, right? Listen to your body. Understand. Right. But he needs to know.
00;31;52;01 – 00;32;10;09
Unknown
He needs to know before he gets in a marriage or has children. Yes. If you want to have children someday, you need to be prepared for what that is because that’s going to throw you on your head. Yep. You’re a kid. You’re going to be a man who needs a tremendous amount of downtime, who does not like a whole lot of stimulation, like, or over stimulation.
00;32;10;11 – 00;32;40;13
Unknown
Someone who gets very overwhelmed when X, y, Z is happening. Do you don’t want to know what it is to throw a kid in that mix all of those things, right. So I’m not saying don’t have kids, but I am saying before you get to that point, you either need to have worked on some of these things, or you need to have come to terms with the fact that this is going to look different when you throw a kiddo in the mix, and you need to be able to communicate with your partner because then your partner is resentful of you, because now you’ve disappeared, because your priorities are more important, right?
00;32;40;16 – 00;32;58;02
Unknown
Because it gets interpreted as, oh, I’m sorry. So you need more downtime. Good for you. Well, so I’m the one who actually can push through it a little bit more. Therefore it’s now on me. Right? Right. But again, those are the conversations that need to be had that none of that was in my mind before I got married.
00;32;58;02 – 00;33;19;03
Unknown
It wasn’t even anything that would have occurred to me. I knew who I was at a general sense of the word, but I didn’t know who I was going to be. As a mom. I didn’t know I was going to be as a business owner. You didn’t know, right? Any of these things? Nope. But the core of who I am in these sort of baseline things aren’t consistent.
00;33;19;06 – 00;33;45;04
Unknown
When I finally reset and realized I can only do this much in a day in order to make sure that my body and my mind are in homeostasis. That number was probably four times less than what I was doing. Oh yeah, but it took a massive upheaval in life in order to figure that out, right? Wouldn’t it have been incredible had I known that about myself before I went into all of these different things?
00;33;45;04 – 00;34;09;13
Unknown
Sure. You know. Sure. It’s really, really interesting. Yeah. All right. Hit us with it. Oh you’re going to hit us with some hippie food. But I picked it. Well this is fascinating okay. What is the seven. The chariot movement. See this is a little merman with his. It’s a merman. Oh we never had that one with two.
00;34;09;13 – 00;34;32;02
Unknown
Oh. He’s cute. They shallow. It’s a full seahorse that are pulling him in his seashell. You know what it reminds me of? Movement. When King Triton comes in in the beginning of, Little Mermaid in his shell. Yeah. I gotta find it. Yep. What number is it? Seven. Oh, you can read Roman numerals now, I took Latin, I took class.
00;34;32;03 – 00;34;55;01
Unknown
Oh, that’s right, I forgot. Right. Okay. What movement? The chariot. The charioteer is traveling. Warrior of the tarot. He holds a trident to guide him on his journey. And two seahorses carry him forward. He needs only one hand in the reins to control their decision. His willpower and determination propel him onward and keep his chariot moving in the right direction.
00;34;55;04 – 00;35;14;19
Unknown
In his seashell chariot, he is protected. The shell also symbol symbolizes his personality or the outer persona he shows to the world. So the meaning is movement. It’s time to make some serious progress. Travel is favored now as moves are connected with work. This card is also a general sign that every aspect of your life will surge forward.
00;35;14;19 – 00;35;33;11
Unknown
However, balance is necessary and you need to treat people around you with care as this card of energy. This is a card of energy rather than sensitivity. The card reveals that good timing and being aware of your ego will be essential if you’re to keep your show on the road. An additional meaning of this card is acquiring a new car or another vehicle.
00;35;33;13 – 00;35;57;17
Unknown
Advice it’s taking its time actively to move forward with your plans. Keep that ego in check when you need to and enjoy this time of power and motivation. Okay, 25,003 of you and Scott wasn’t even Scott during the last episode. There were like, oh, we got get your ego in the door. And did you not pick that letter?
00;35;57;17 – 00;36;16;01
Unknown
Absolutely I did okay. Twitter. I can’t make it funny. What do you got now? Sorry for the reality. Yeah, the reality is I was scared to death over here. The ego is just fake. The ego is like, oh, God, do we have the appropriate CEO that I put the computer you need to be in to where they need to go and think that we could use this to our best.
00;36;16;01 – 00;36;35;18
Unknown
You’re light years ahead of where you were even last year. I know. Sure, you would have taken videos 1617 times and then throwing them all away. How many videos did we not post because I couldn’t get over whatever it was? Well, look at you. I did like. I guess I’m going to say this because when you go, I’m just going to sit here in my car and tell you what I’m thinking.
00;36;35;18 – 00;36;54;15
Unknown
In fact, right, you will be on the phone. I’m like, wait, I got to record that. We got we have we have turned the corner. Hey, Bill. So Steve, my friend Steve, so was like, are the acoustics better in the car? Like you asshole. Whatever. Well, picking your hair tenses right now. The light’s better. I mean, they’re good.
00;36;54;15 – 00;37;12;05
Unknown
Sticks probably are better. Yeah. Isn’t that funny? And I have an affirmation card here. It’s called I am Secure. I know that my finances will be taken care of even when I don’t see how. Okay, that one’s for you guys. That means that for me, that I’m three, actually. Yeah. Try. Thank God you get in those 75 days.
00;37;12;06 – 00;37;27;24
Unknown
Yes. And God, you have our life and plan that my not doing that right. Do it. That’s right. One of us has to be in charge. In fact, I’m just signed up for travel basketball. I’m gonna take my all the places. That’s good. Right? Right. That’s what you’ve decided in this game plan. I’m the one who manages everything.
00;37;27;24 – 00;37;53;21
Unknown
And you’re just like the nanny. That’s fine. Assistant. That’s fine. Right? That’s right. That’s all the stuff, right. So I’ve had a video for us for a very long time that I’ve been very excited to show you. Okay. And have I seen it got. No, I don’t I don’t think so. Great. So commencement was just recently upon us right to higher ed student affairs professionals who are former student affairs hired professionals who spent many a time in commencement.
00;37;53;21 – 00;38;16;29
Unknown
I’ve always dreamed of giving some type of commencement speech, and I’m hoping that was a dream of mine. 25 K real afraid I definitely. Hi, it’s nice to see everyone here today. Have you following me on Instagram. You should. In fact, if you send me updates to go and check your Facebook request, I will politely say to you I’m not accepting personal friends.
00;38;17;01 – 00;38;44;12
Unknown
Please follow me on this. You will get a real life response from me. If you friend me on Facebook, that response will be I’m not interested, but it will still be me. Thank you for coming today. Now about commencement. But but so here’s what happened. Because I’m in charge of the CEO, and because I’ve been working very hard to make sure that our more loved podcast Facebook page is connected to the More Love Podcast Facebook group is connected to me.
00;38;44;13 – 00;39;00;12
Unknown
We have a third page now, the YouTubes. Yes, we have an extra business page because you have to have a business page in order to run ads. Do I have to post on that too? No. Okay, thank God no. But Scott, when he posts the videos, the videos end up going on there. It’s a whole thing. All right.
00;39;00;12 – 00;39;22;29
Unknown
So let’s just say that when I went in there and was starting to figure out what was in the group versus what was in our Facebook page, I realized that Scott had already created us a Facebook page forever ago, because that’s where he has to post the videos. Oh, right. Oh, but again, because I’m a creature of I have to do it and see it in order to understand it.
00;39;23;02 – 00;39;40;25
Unknown
I didn’t recognize that. So Scott, props to you. One for creating the page. I didn’t have to change the page name. It was fine. Great. I didn’t have to change that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For yourself that Rebecca and Aaron are the, the owners or the people. So so he, he he just really did a great job. Nailed it Scott nailed it.
00;39;40;25 – 00;39;54;29
Unknown
Now what I have been like Scott, what is this? This is what is this I did what right. Can I not then okay. Yeah I would have but I didn’t need to because Scott did such a great job. So then I essentially took over that page because again, I had no clue that this is something that we needed.
00;39;55;01 – 00;40;10;02
Unknown
Okay. But when I did, I found a whole bunch of messages and I found a whole bunch of like, stop it. Just things from a bunch of people that were like, oh my gosh, I saw this. And I thought of Rebecca, oh my gosh, this makes me think of you. And the gig was this whole experience. So I want to be really clear.
00;40;10;02 – 00;40;23;08
Unknown
Same is true about my personal Instagram. If I’m not getting back to you, it’s because I have no clue what I’m doing. It is not because I’m being. I don’t even know it was. Rebecca doesn’t even know we have a page. I don’t know why you’re not hearing from her. No idea. I didn’t even know it was there.
00;40;23;08 – 00;40;45;20
Unknown
And so when I went in there, someone. I think it was my friend Megan from high school had posted this commencement speech. Oh, and had said, you have to watch this like this. This is you and Rebecca. So I watched it, I loved it, I shared it with Scott. Scott’s like, I really love it and I should let’s show this okay to our listener.
00;40;45;20 – 00;41;20;26
Unknown
So one, thank you, Megan, for providing this for us. I’m glad I finally saw it probably last year at commencement when she sent it. I have no clue, but it’s finally making its way around. We’re going to do it. So the best way to spot an idiot look for the person who was cruel. Let me explain. When we see someone who doesn’t look like us, or sound like us, or act like us, or love like us, or live like us, the first thought that crosses almost everyone’s brain is rooted in either fear or judgment or both.
00;41;20;28 – 00;41;58;12
Unknown
That’s evolution. We survived as a species by being suspicious of things that we aren’t familiar with. In order to be kind, we have to shut down that animal instinct and force our brain to travel a different pathway. Empathy and compassion are evolved states of being. They require the mental capacity to step past our most primal urges. This may be a surprising assessment, because somewhere along the way, in the last few years, our society has come to believe that weaponized cruelty is part of some well thought out master plan.
00;41;58;14 – 00;42;30;10
Unknown
Cruelty is seen by some as an adroit cudgel to gain power. Empathy and kindness are considered weak. Many important people look at the vulnerable only as rungs on a ladder to the top. I’m here to tell you that when someone’s path through this world is marked with acts of cruelty, they have failed. The first test of an advanced society.
00;42;30;13 – 00;43;02;15
Unknown
Oh ding ding ding ding ding ding eyes. And my whole body is. It’s so true. I’ve never thought of it in that context. Which part? The the animal instinct. Yes. Yes. And how we as human beings. That’s how we’re formed. Is that the word like that’s, that’s an evolving is these advanced skills, which is why a lot of people don’t have them.
00;43;02;18 – 00;43;36;16
Unknown
Yes. They’re learned, they’re accepted, they’re embraced, they’re practiced. The easiest thing to do is be a judger and be cruel. That’s not that’s not intentional. Right. I’m not intentionally going to be like fucking hate your blond hair. I’m choosing to hate your blond hair. But what. Right. I don’t think that. I mean right. Wow. I just love how he.
00;43;36;19 – 00;44;11;06
Unknown
He talks about empathy and vulnerability as advanced states of being, because it’s harder to be empathic and vulnerable and to see people and the world not from a primal state of this is how we’re different. This is what I don’t like about you. This is what is unique about you compared to me. Right? That, that that is actually a normal form of response.
00;44;11;11 – 00;44;36;12
Unknown
Well, in survival at your, at your core. Right. You as a human, we needed to survive. Back in the day everything was a threat. So it’s just funny that over time and you know we put all this crap into our bodies physically like processed food and all this stuff. And so as, as our generations and as we evolved physically, things are happening.
00;44;36;12 – 00;45;15;11
Unknown
But yeah, our brains expand and evolve. And does that get passed down. Other than by actions, nature versus nurture, I don’t know. Why then, if empathy and vulnerability are higher in more advanced forms of connection, that they are not primal, why are they seen as a weakness? That’s a good question. Because if if there was this so there’s a way of being that is expected.
00;45;15;14 – 00;45;54;08
Unknown
And then if there is a higher level of being that’s available, it’s just difficult for people. Why isn’t that seen as a higher level to achieve? Because I think the message that especially in America, we get is if you stand for everything, you stand for nothing. Okay. And so therefore I think people and that’s maybe too broad, but I think sometimes people might think if I, if I have empathy or show vulnerable pity for something that I may not necessarily stand for, I’m not.
00;45;54;11 – 00;46;14;10
Unknown
I’m seen differently and I don’t want to be seen that way. I don’t know that to be true for everybody, but God forbid, you know, and I think that’s where it gets confusing sometimes when people are like, I don’t like I don’t like gay people or the act of being gay, but I love, I love you, that juxtaposition right there.
00;46;14;15 – 00;46;46;19
Unknown
Right. It’s like, how can both be true? How can you say that you don’t like this? That’s a core part of who I am. But you love me like that. Makes no sense. You know what I mean? I think so, so I am curious, though, why empathy and vulnerability specifically are seen as weaker or less advanced compared to something to aspire to?
00;46;46;21 – 00;47;13;14
Unknown
I don’t know. And then I wonder if it just takes a specific type of person or portrayal of empathy and vulnerability in order to think differently. Then the only person that’s coming to my mind right now is Mister Rogers. I love Mister Rogers. He is my answer to the question if you could have dinner with anyone, dead or alive, who would it be?
00;47;13;14 – 00;47;47;03
Unknown
It’s Mister Rogers, okay. And he was beautifully empathic and vulnerable and caring way above his time. And I never got the sense that people saw him as weak or, a lesser, you know, like an easy to plow over, you know, bullying kind of kind of thing. Right? They never saw his empathy and vulnerability is as weak I would agree with.
00;47;47;03 – 00;48;26;06
Unknown
People have seen it as beautiful. I would agree with that. And so what’s the difference between a mr. Rogers and, the kid on the playground who makes sure that some other kid is included, right? Are they seen as weak or I think amongst their peers they probably are. Right. But like, what are those factors that takes that empathy and vulnerability and turns it into something that is seen as a higher form instead of seen as a weakness because it’s going against the grain.
00;48;26;09 – 00;48;49;22
Unknown
It’s like not most people don’t naturally act that way. Most people gravitate to the crowd. And then when you it’s like swimming up, who’s the fish that goes up the stream? The salmon. Oh, you know me going against the current like going against the masses. I don’t I don’t know if I would see a high personally wouldn’t see that as a weakness.
00;48;49;22 – 00;49;19;16
Unknown
I would see that as like holy shit, that’s brief. That’s strong, that’s amazing. That’s breaking. That’s not giving two shits about what somebody may say about you. That’s confidence. But I don’t know. We joke, though, that you see aspects of my vulnerability as like I rolls. Oh my gosh, how come you’re doing that right. So this great example would be when when we talked about me responding to the people on Facebook.
00;49;19;19 – 00;49;36;23
Unknown
Who wanted to be friends with me. But my Facebook isn’t for that. Right. So we joke right. Like I, I just leave them alone. Who cares right. Why do we have to do that. So that’s an aspect of vulnerability and empathy for me right? I believe it’s kind to respond to someone who’s made the effort to say, I want to connect with you.
00;49;36;23 – 00;49;51;08
Unknown
It doesn’t need to be like, oh, tell me about yourself, right? But it can be, hey, I just wanted to let you know I see you, I appreciate you, thank you for wanting to be connected with me. And here’s some ways that you can connect with me. My personal Facebook is just I keep it a little more tight right.
00;49;51;08 – 00;50;19;20
Unknown
To people that I know specifically, you know or, or have met or have close connections with but in that situation, why, why is that not seen as a higher level of wow, that is a it’s a super power, right? It’s this sort of desire to connect with people in this certain way, like a mr. Rogers kind of thing.
00;50;19;20 – 00;50;35;14
Unknown
I would imagine he would do something similar. He wouldn’t want someone to be unseen. Right. And that would be an example because you’re not the only person that probably would feel that way. Right. Of a way where we don’t embrace or see that for what it is. We’re like, oh my God, why, why, why would you do that?
00;50;35;14 – 00;50;54;05
Unknown
It’s such a waste of time. Why would we. Right. But why is that like why, why aren’t we. It might be seen as a weakness right. It might be seen as a, you’re wasting time on something that doesn’t need your time and attention. So why in that situation is it seen more as a weakness than seen more as a.
00;50;54;07 – 00;51;26;11
Unknown
I can only answer for me. For me, my natural tendency is not to want to connect with people. I’m not the person who’s like, after the speech that that you gave as part of your job, you want to sit there and have the individual conversations with people. I want to get the fuck out over it done right. And so I view social media the same way I it’s it’s not that’s not a time to to to have other people’s needs be met.
00;51;26;14 – 00;51;43;09
Unknown
My needs to be my needs need to be met first, which is the boundary of I’m not engaging in there. So I don’t I don’t view it as a weakness. I actually view it as, wow, that’s admirable that you would take the time to individually reply to these randos, but you don’t know because they were so inspired by something you said.
00;51;43;12 – 00;51;51;17
Unknown
I don’t view that as a weakness at all.
00;51;51;20 – 00;52;22;16
Unknown
Maybe it just comes from your desire to make sure that everybody feels seen and heard. Because at the end of the day, if you can repair that hole that everybody has, I think everybody has a a feeling inside of them that at some point in time they weren’t seen. And it really feels shitty. Totally. I don’t think you’re unique, though, in having a knee jerk reaction to hearing that and immediately thinking, oh my gosh, why would we do that?
00;52;22;18 – 00;52;51;01
Unknown
Because for me, it’s an energy suck. That’s that’s a that’s a lot of energy. But therein lies a really important distinction. Something can be empathic and vulnerable and beautiful even, and you can appreciate it for what it is, even if you yourself wouldn’t do it. Oh, yeah. That’s what I don’t think people do. Well, that that I think people come off as incredibly judgmental.
00;52;51;01 – 00;53;12;26
Unknown
Good. So then the person who is doing like, here’s how it would sound differently if you were like, wow, well, I’m not surprised, knowing who you are, that you would spend all of the time doing that. And I think that’s absolutely beautiful. I wish that that level of vulnerability and empathy existed in me. And in many ways it does.
00;53;12;26 – 00;53;34;05
Unknown
It’s just not in that way. Now that’s how I would respond to somebody that’s not you. I respond to you the way I do because you and I have the my foundation of oh, here she goes again. But if it was, if it was another person who said that, that’s I would have been like, wow, that’s. But inside you’d be judging that person because only because it wouldn’t be me, right?
00;53;34;05 – 00;54;04;29
Unknown
You’d still be thinking to you. You’d say that, but you’d still be thinking consciously doing that. That’s so stupid. I mean, 100% of time doing that. Absolutely. That’s part that is part of the problem. That’s why we are where we are, because empathy doesn’t have an opportunity to continue to grow and be positively reinforced when people who do empathic acts, get downed or judged or like, hit real hard with the that’s so stupid, why are we doing that?
00;54;05;01 – 00;54;36;04
Unknown
Right? So the response I think that that specific response that we have, that internal response is the important factor that differentiates empathy and vulnerability as being something that can be seen and praised, even if we don’t feel that we want to or care to, or want to be in a position to do that. Yes, versus giving the impression that that vulnerability or that empathy is a waste of time.
00;54;36;04 – 00;55;00;19
Unknown
Why would we do it? And that’s where I think as a society, we’ve not done a really great job of differentiating the two. And those people who are huge empaths and are very vulnerable, who are constantly being negatively reinforced because we’re getting messages that that empathy is a waste of time, that vulnerability. You took away too long doing that.
00;55;00;21 – 00;55;26;10
Unknown
You didn’t set good enough boundaries with that. And look at that. You got taken advantage of. If we’re not spending time embracing the empathy and vulnerability, we’re just spending time on the aftermath because of people’s own internal reactions to either I would never do that, or I’m really uncomfortable with that, or, I don’t understand where someone would take the time to do that.
00;55;26;10 – 00;55;50;25
Unknown
And I think even if it’s just a subtle shift, right, of acknowledging first and then being like, I really respect that because I would do something very different. Now, to be fair, the opposite is also true. When you take a non empathic response, my first response to you is not I see you setting some really clear boundaries around your empathy and vulnerability because it’s too much for you when it all comes in.
00;55;50;27 – 00;56;16;00
Unknown
I’m like, you bitch! Why we you’re so nasty. Why would you do that? Right? So part of that, I think, is just normal human behavior. But I wonder what that would look like if we paused for a minute and just as a as a group spent some time really acknowledging the basis of where that was coming from and appreciated it for what it was, even if it was something that we ourselves wouldn’t do.
00;56;16;00 – 00;56;37;29
Unknown
I wonder if that changes. Maybe it doesn’t change anything, right? But I wonder what that would change. I mean, I think that’s a great question. And I think that that for me, it wouldn’t change anything because the change I made was to to appreciate and acknowledge.
00;56;38;02 – 00;57;05;22
Unknown
Something different than what I feel inside. So that is the change. The changes. Wow. Right. I can appreciate that. And I kind of got it. Am I going to do it now? Right. Your action wouldn’t change, but your acknowledgment, dead combat acknowledgment might be the thing that needs to change. Because if we want empathy and vulnerability to be seen as Mr. Rogers strong, then we need to be able to first acknowledge you and acknowledge where empathy and vulnerability exist and appreciated in that space.
00;57;05;25 – 00;57;26;10
Unknown
Many people do not acknowledge and appreciate empathy in that space, because they’re so quick to judge the shit out of it and be like, oh, you’re leaving yourself susceptible to, right? That’s reinforcing this pattern of weakness. But that’s also attributed. You can attribute that to maybe something that happened way back in the day. And so that your defense mechanisms like this so complex.
00;57;26;10 – 00;57;45;24
Unknown
Right. It’s like there’s no clear cut answer. Right. And then I could also I could also come back and say, well, how are you feeling? How how do I articulate this? Your need to respond to each individual people on the Facebook who want to be friends with you? Is it to make them be seen, or is it stroking your ego?
00;57;45;24 – 00;58;09;02
Unknown
That’s like, oh, I feel good about this because they reached out to me. Now I’m not accusing no, no, no, no. I’m just saying that’s another side of the sword, right? Where a person who can just let it go and disregard it doesn’t care about any of that, right? Maybe. Right. Right. Or or do you care because you can’t trust yourself to not engage in really long conversations with these people who time suck you.
00;58;09;05 – 00;58;33;19
Unknown
Right? Right. So like when you start nitpicking, getting really, really done, that would take a long time, right? To like really dissect this just one situation, right? Right, right. And so and then of course, you have the, the compounded ness of you have terrible boundaries and then you work on it and then you pick and choose where, you know, it’s so complex that even getting it down to just one little simple nuance of a word can change everything.
00;58;33;22 – 00;58;50;20
Unknown
So I don’t know, I don’t know, but I guess I don’t see it. It’s funny because that resonated with me the the speech. But then when you, when I start talking about it I don’t see empathy and vulnerability as a weakness. I actually see it as something that I wish I could do and be comfortable with because it is admirable.
00;58;50;22 – 00;59;16;29
Unknown
Yeah, very much so. It’s just not in my comfort zone. So to engage in that feels really icky. Yeah. Really I would love to hear some of our listeners feedback. Yeah. And how they relate to that and which part identifies with them. And also because they’ve gotten to know you over two seasons as well. I’d love to hear specifically when they hear you say that I love empathy, I care about empathy.
00;59;16;29 – 00;59;43;15
Unknown
I very much see to exist, and I can’t do it because of all of these different hands. I internally do it. It’s hard for me to vocalize it. Yeah, or to engage in a conversation or to, process it. Maybe because it just doesn’t end. So for me to turn it off real quick right. And just disengage and pretend it’s not there, right, is so much easier.
00;59;43;15 – 01;00;00;15
Unknown
Right. It’s so much easier for me to get through the day because it’s the hamster wheel, right. It’s the once you turn the faucet on right now it’s, it’s I can’t I can’t let it go. I can’t let it go. I can’t let it go. Like you. You can’t let go. That woman on the Facebook. Like I have to turn that off fast because it’s coming all.
01;00;00;15 – 01;00;14;12
Unknown
All the angles. Yeah, all the angles. I’m the person that if somebody texts me, even if I haven’t talked to you in 30 years and you’re like, can we talk for a second? That immediately brings me down a rabbit hole and you’re like, what? I’m like, I’ve already told the story, right? I’ve already decided this is what it is.
01;00;14;12 – 01;00;34;17
Unknown
And that is way too much for me, right? Way too much. I don’t know if that’s empathy or trauma response what I’m saying, but it’s an interesting it’s an interesting comparison. But that’s this whole show, right? Right. So here I am, empathic and and loving and seeing all of these sides. And you’re the one that’s like, oh my god.
01;00;34;17 – 01;00;54;14
Unknown
Nope. I don’t feel any of that. And I’m like, except you do, right? You do feel all of that. And the problem is you feel all of it too deeply. Right and all. Yeah, right. Oh, wait, wait, I don’t know if we have it. Oh, it’s taken away. We haven’t used it in so long it disappears. It’s like when the emoji that you loved and you don’t use it in a long time has gone.
01;00;54;15 – 01;01;14;03
Unknown
Oh yeah. Yeah, right. You got to find it. Keep pushing the emoji over and over and over again. Because you want to make sure that that piece of fish on that right stays there. There now. Yeah. Oh there. Oh turn it off like a light switch. Stir. It is true I’m sure. Good. Yeah. Really interesting. So thank you Megan for sending us that.
01;01;14;03 – 01;01;32;24
Unknown
Yeah that was awesome. Video clip. Keep sending us stuff guys. We’ll get to it in the next couple of years. Maybe. You know, maybe I think probably we don’t know. So I don’t know. We’ll do our best. Have a good day I loved that. Me too is an empathy. Amazing. Well we’re amazing. I don’t know about all this empathy stuff.
01;01;33;02 – 01;01;49;19
Unknown
That’s fine. Except you, wherever you are. Oh, God, I love you. I love you too. And if you love us, please like and subscribe to more. Love the power of empathy podcast wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.
