Episode 239- Hot Takes and Heartfelt Moments: Can We Ever Truly Agree?

00;00;00;00 – 00;00;05;06
Speaker 1
I have done so much thinking about that episode.
00;00;05;09 – 00;00;08;00
Speaker 2
Prior to re listening to it prior.
00;00;08;00 – 00;00;13;11
Speaker 1
To after it. During Gerald during was unreal.
00;00;13;12 – 00;00;17;07
Speaker 2
Did you have to listen to it twice or was that Scott? Somebody did, I did. Oh you.
00;00;17;07 – 00;00;31;06
Speaker 1
Did. When I was done with that episode, you guys, I said the podcast is all done. I’m not doing the podcast anymore.
00;00;31;08 – 00;00;51;27
Speaker 1
Hey, it’s me Erin Thanks for joining us on the More Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside. But the truth is, she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Here she comes. Hey, bestie.
00;00;51;28 – 00;00;53;22
Speaker 2
Hi, love. What are you doing?
00;00;53;22 – 00;00;56;07
Speaker 1
Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast.
00;00;56;10 – 00;00;57;25
Speaker 2
A podcast about what.
00;00;58;02 – 00;01;03;07
Speaker 1
Our life, our life is. Best friends who are more like sisters.
00;01;03;10 – 00;01;06;24
Speaker 2
Yay! I love us, and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world.
00;01;06;26 – 00;01;12;13
Speaker 1
Especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right to be our most authentic selves.
00;01;12;16 – 00;01;16;23
Speaker 2
Oh man. Okay.
00;01;16;26 – 00;01;20;07
Speaker 1
You remember how you guys wanted to just start a frickin podcast in the middle.
00;01;20;07 – 00;01;22;19
Speaker 2
Of a conversation?
00;01;22;21 – 00;01;26;16
Speaker 1
I’m. I’m not. I’m not kidding. Is that something people can do?
00;01;26;20 – 00;01;27;27
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
00;01;27;29 – 00;01;36;12
Speaker 1
Stop it. You guys could have started this podcast just to where that conversation was just going. Absolutely.
00;01;36;15 – 00;01;37;08
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00;01;37;10 – 00;01;57;20
Speaker 2
Wow. I gotta say, I gotta say two things is incredible. I went to the. What’s it called? The air show yesterday. So I got sunburned. And so my fake tan is peeling off now. That’s number one. Number two. My I went to, Walmart with the girls the other day, and I had just put a spray tan on and I wore a white shirt.
00;01;57;20 – 00;02;10;11
Speaker 2
Did it start to rain? And as soon as it got wet, did it bleed through? Okay. Yep. Yeah. In the Walmart. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I guess you’re at Walmart. I know. It’s really funny. But anyway yes I could start right there. You could have started right there.
00;02;10;12 – 00;02;28;29
Speaker 1
You too Scott. Oh yeah. Listen you guys. So Rebecca just asked me a question before we started this session and I’m like, oh, my God, this is really good content. We need to talk about this on the show. So then we all three of us started talking about it. And then I noticed my anxiety spikes because I’m like, we’re we’re wasting the good content for the show.
00;02;28;29 – 00;02;51;05
Speaker 1
And then Scott out of nowhere is like, I’ve already started recording and then I’m all done because I’m like, what do you mean you’ve started recording? We didn’t do the intro. And then Rebecca says, well, we can add that in. I’m like, no, we can’t. I’m sorry, you guys. The way that this goes is that the intro plays.
00;02;51;07 – 00;02;52;16
Speaker 2
Well, and then we.
00;02;52;16 – 00;02;58;20
Speaker 1
Have some witty statement that happens after that, and then we get into the to the content.
00;02;58;22 – 00;03;02;17
Speaker 2
Or it has to be the cadence for this. This is incredible.
00;03;02;19 – 00;03;06;29
Speaker 3
You make sure you turn the lights on then off, then on then circle and off.
00;03;07;00 – 00;03;08;04
Speaker 2
That’s right, that’s right. That’s right.
00;03;08;11 – 00;03;10;10
Speaker 1
So Rebecca what was your question.
00;03;10;12 – 00;03;24;09
Speaker 2
So I said what’s really interesting to me is, you made it. We’re so far ahead with our podcast that I can’t even remember. Sometimes when I listen to them, I’m like, whoa, oh, I know a while ago there’s.
00;03;24;09 – 00;03;31;14
Speaker 1
A thing on the submission form that says, when will this air? And I’ll now I’ve just started being like, no clue. Not sure why, I don’t know.
00;03;31;15 – 00;03;53;22
Speaker 2
Well, you’re asking me to, schedule the guests, and I had to say to you, we’re in 2025. Yeah. Because at this point, we have so many guests there every other episode. That’s right. So. And then and then I thought to myself as I’m reviewing our timeline, I’m like, does she realized that just because we record them in a certain way doesn’t mean they need to air that way.
00;03;53;24 – 00;04;12;07
Speaker 2
But of course I am, because in my mind, we have we have like eight in the hopper. Right. And then we did a sports part one and part two. And in my mind, that part two could have been brought up to be after the part one, but because we didn’t do it in that order, it can’t be produced or it can’t be published in that order.
00;04;12;07 – 00;04;14;13
Speaker 2
And I know how your brain works. So but.
00;04;14;16 – 00;04;17;03
Speaker 1
Not all these all build on each.
00;04;17;03 – 00;04;19;28
Speaker 2
Other. They don’t build up each other.
00;04;20;00 – 00;04;23;03
Speaker 1
Each one is supposed to get a little bit better than the one before it.
00;04;23;04 – 00;04;29;20
Speaker 2
So yeah. So yeah, my mind, even though we do them back to back, she could mix them up in the order of production because then we’re not wearing the same outfit.
00;04;29;20 – 00;04;33;21
Speaker 1
If you want that to happen. You all are going to have to do that behind.
00;04;33;21 – 00;04;34;25
Speaker 2
My back.
00;04;34;28 – 00;04;35;27
Speaker 1
And I’ll go with it.
00;04;35;27 – 00;04;43;04
Speaker 2
Whatever. So you know you well, you’re going to have a reaction. You’ll be like, oh, that one was recorded differently. Okay. I just know you so well. For real.
00;04;43;05 – 00;04;46;23
Speaker 1
Cannot do that myself. I don’t make it. I won’t make it.
00;04;46;23 – 00;04;52;02
Speaker 2
I know, but I did have that a thought. I’m like, does she realize? But anyway, so that brings me back to,
00;04;52;05 – 00;04;53;24
Speaker 1
My text message.
00;04;53;26 – 00;05;12;28
Speaker 2
Oh, about the about the one show we did. So it was the. Well, I also posted okay, rewind. This is why it came up. I posted in the Facebook page something like what? What do you guys want to talk about? Or is there something on your mind or whatever? And then Sarah posted what she posted and it was all because the.
00;05;13;01 – 00;05;32;06
Speaker 2
Shooting at Donald Trump, I don’t know if it was an assassination attempt. I don’t know what it was, but it was stemming from that. And I was like, oh, we we did actually talk about this, but because we’re so far behind and God forbid Aaron move anything, we don’t know that it’s relevant. Right in the moment, people eight weeks later are going to be like, we’re going to be like, oh, did you see Donald Trump was shot?
00;05;32;06 – 00;05;44;07
Speaker 2
I mean, they’re gonna know how far ahead we are, right? But we don’t move that one. But anyway, and so Scott, you see you hear me, right? I hear you. Okay. So, you all have.
00;05;44;07 – 00;05;52;09
Speaker 1
Creative liberty here. And in fact, Scott’s the one who decides what posted. I don’t care, but don’t tell me about it. Do not show me what’s being posted.
00;05;52;09 – 00;05;53;01
Speaker 2
Well that’s.
00;05;53;01 – 00;05;54;02
Speaker 3
Funny. Well.
00;05;54;04 – 00;05;57;04
Speaker 2
You just gotta change the the numbers for the episode. It’s not like you even don’t tell. I just.
00;05;57;04 – 00;05;57;19
Speaker 1
Don’t tell.
00;05;57;19 – 00;05;58;07
Speaker 2
Me why you don’t.
00;05;58;07 – 00;05;58;18
Speaker 1
Tell me.
00;05;58;25 – 00;06;19;06
Speaker 2
So, We in? I believe it was that episode that because that happened, we had a lot to talk about. And, you know, it’s the election year and the, debates, I think, just started happening. And whatever. And both you and I are not me. I’m not politically savvy. I don’t pay attention to it. I couldn’t tell you.
00;06;19;09 – 00;06;36;06
Speaker 2
I couldn’t have told you. Who the vice president was. This patch. I’ve no freaking clip. Right. Yeah. So when these kinds of things come up, it’s, I have a hard time talking about it because I don’t know facts, and I don’t like making assumptions. I have a really difficult time engaging with people when I don’t know the facts, because it can.
00;06;36;06 – 00;06;38;28
Speaker 2
You can be swayed very easily, like all these kinds of things, or you.
00;06;38;28 – 00;06;42;06
Speaker 1
Can offend people really easily because you you’re not bringing the same.
00;06;42;06 – 00;07;03;14
Speaker 2
And you don’t the level of knowledge, you know. So at the end of the day, I’m just going off of feelings and just the bits of information that I do know. But at the same time, my intent is never to offend anybody. Right? And so I think in my mind, it’s okay to have a conversation, even if you have a point of view one way, because reality is it’s just a point of view.
00;07;03;14 – 00;07;19;05
Speaker 2
And, because my intent isn’t to offend anybody. I feel okay about talking about it. Right? Or, you know, the kinds of things on the show. Yeah. Where you get really nervous, especially if. It’s not a one on one conversation.
00;07;19;05 – 00;07;22;09
Speaker 1
It is the understatement of 2024.
00;07;22;11 – 00;07;46;08
Speaker 2
It’s not right if it’s not a conversation. You and I have many, many conversations where you I know you’re right. I know you’re deep down opinions. I know where you stand on things. We’ve had quote unquote debates or, intellectual. We’ve had a lot of conversations. And at the end of the day, could you and I pinpoint exactly where we are in the world of politics?
00;07;46;08 – 00;08;15;14
Speaker 2
I don’t think so, because the reality is, I don’t think you and I either. We don’t understand. Yeah, right versus left red versus blue. Like we don’t understand any of that. We just know how we feel about real issues. Right? Right. And at the end of the day, it’s such a job mess. Yeah, but I asked her, I go, do you feel like you can’t have you can’t take a stance or have public standing opinions, like even wearing a cross necklace would be really hard for you if you were a Christian.
00;08;15;14 – 00;08;42;03
Speaker 2
Like, I am not saying you are. Yeah, yeah, but if you did have, you know, or your child was autistic wearing a symbol of that, yeah, you would have a very hard time doing that because of multiple reasons. And I said, is that your personality or is that your professional training? Because I said I was having a conversation with some of the other day, and I’m very clear about where I stand and how I feel, but I don’t always.
00;08;42;06 – 00;09;11;23
Speaker 2
People may think I express it, but I don’t. And, I think it’s because my quote unquote professional experience from 18 on was in liberal higher education environments where everything had to be P.C. and everything had to be vanilla and gray. And if you did have an opinion or a stance or whatever, it was not. Okay. Because of the role that I played.
00;09;11;23 – 00;09;29;20
Speaker 2
Yeah. And you don’t get to play that role 9 to 5. Yeah. You play that role 100% of the time. Yeah. So you’re a therapist by trade, right? And worked in, liberal higher education. Yeah, for the most part. Well, I don’t know, maybe some of the ones you did weren’t necessarily liberal, but.
00;09;29;22 – 00;09;31;12
Speaker 1
Most just higher ed in general.
00;09;31;12 – 00;09;59;00
Speaker 2
I worked at the state Institution of New York, which means it’s as liberal as you get. So I wonder for you, I, I’m much more brass and whatever, but I don’t have a, a therapist degree where, you know, whatever. And maybe that’s the empathy super power or whatever. But at the same time, I’m not I think people make a lot of assumptions about what I stand for or how I feel deep down.
00;09;59;25 – 00;10;14;07
Speaker 2
I really do based on I, I value the concept. If I’m gonna say something out loud, I got to be able to stand by it and, and say it to your face. Do you know what I mean. Yeah. And so.
00;10;14;09 – 00;10;18;29
Speaker 1
I have done so much thinking about that episode.
00;10;19;01 – 00;10;21;24
Speaker 2
Prior to re listening to it prior.
00;10;21;24 – 00;10;24;00
Speaker 1
To after it.
00;10;24;00 – 00;10;24;22
Speaker 2
During.
00;10;24;25 – 00;10;27;05
Speaker 1
Gerald during was unreal.
00;10;27;06 – 00;10;29;24
Speaker 2
Did you have to listen to it twice or was that Scott somebody?
00;10;29;24 – 00;10;30;18
Speaker 1
Did I did.
00;10;30;18 – 00;10;31;06
Speaker 2
Oh, you did.
00;10;31;06 – 00;10;36;07
Speaker 1
When I was done with that episode, you guys, I said, the podcast is all done. I’m not doing the podcast anymore.
00;10;36;08 – 00;10;40;13
Speaker 2
Oh, the whole thing. You’re going to throw it away? Oh yeah. I was all done because. Tell me more about that.
00;10;40;13 – 00;10;42;16
Speaker 1
I was all done. I was not doing the podcast.
00;10;42;16 – 00;10;54;11
Speaker 2
And Scott, just so we’re clear, we’re playing this one directly after that one. Okay. Put it, put it, mark it down. Because I would be irrelevant, especially if people don’t listen in a room. Go ahead. Do you guys.
00;10;54;13 – 00;10;57;10
Speaker 1
I, I don’t understand how you guys didn’t have that reaction.
00;10;57;10 – 00;11;03;11
Speaker 2
I didn’t listen to it. I only listened to it. After you publish it online. Is it published already? No. Okay. That one’s not out yet.
00;11;03;13 – 00;11;03;28
Speaker 1
On.
00;11;04;00 – 00;11;12;21
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Coming out in about four weeks. Yeah. This one, it’s in 2025. So. So me.
00;11;12;24 – 00;11;30;20
Speaker 1
During that particular conversation, every single one of the topics that we talked about was heated, opinionated, and potentially controversial in one way, shape or form, because we started with the school shooting and the parents and.
00;11;30;28 – 00;11;31;26
Speaker 2
That was the episode.
00;11;31;26 – 00;11;38;06
Speaker 1
And how the parents were held or held responsible. Then we went on to the man with the Thousand Children.
00;11;38;13 – 00;11;39;14
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00;11;39;14 – 00;11;43;14
Speaker 1
And then we went on to Trump’s ear getting shot. Oh, okay. Right. Oh, people.
00;11;43;14 – 00;11;47;23
Speaker 2
Are going to love this. Well the people episode right.
00;11;47;26 – 00;11;56;29
Speaker 1
So during that episode, what I was feeling internally, you would never have been able to see.
00;11;57;00 – 00;11;57;13
Speaker 2
Hold on.
00;11;57;13 – 00;11;59;06
Speaker 1
As I’ve watched it back.
00;11;59;08 – 00;12;07;27
Speaker 2
And when you watch it quote unquote, you’re watching the video. You don’t just listen to it. So you’re getting yes, you’re getting the facial expression. I that.
00;12;08;01 – 00;12;13;06
Speaker 1
Because I rewatched this one, folks, to determine whether or not it was going to air or not, I legit.
00;12;13;06 – 00;12;18;08
Speaker 2
But I’m saying you’re watching it. You don’t just listen. No, I think there’s two different experiences where you listen or watch.
00;12;18;09 – 00;12;43;07
Speaker 1
Absolutely great. And I think that the most stimuli comes from me when I watch and when I listen. So I wanted to give it my flood, flood me with all of the information because I thought to myself, if this is going to air, which I’m 98% sure it’s not, was my was my original thought, then I want to make sure that I know what what’s going on there?
00;12;44;08 – 00;12;46;05
Speaker 2
Certainly valid, but that that’s important.
00;12;46;05 – 00;13;14;05
Speaker 1
When I watched it back was one of my really, like, big assed kind of. I don’t know if epiphany is the right word. Did you watch it back, Scott? You did. You and Joe both watched it back. Okay. What I was feeling in that session was absolutely uncomfortable.
00;13;14;07 – 00;13;35;04
Speaker 2
I felt God, well, I need to know what. What was it that made you uncomfortable? The subject, the intensity of the, back and forth, the words that were used up, the stances anybody in the room took. Yeah, which I can’t. Honestly, I don’t even remember.
00;13;35;04 – 00;13;58;00
Speaker 1
What was all three of those. It was it was the intensity. It was probably also coupled with, like you said in the very beginning, not feeling like I know a ton at the end of the day about how to contribute to the conversation of politics, because I don’t feel like I have enough information about it. I hadn’t watched the documentary.
00;13;58;01 – 00;14;13;16
Speaker 1
Did you? So then I went on and watched it. Right. But I was like, I have to watch the doc. I think he even said in the thing, I have to watch the documentary to have an opinion on it. Right. But then I found myself having an opinion on it before I watched the documentary that throw me into a tailspin.
00;14;13;19 – 00;14;21;29
Speaker 1
The, man with the thousand children threw me into a tailspin because I that is the closest I felt to, world.
00;14;21;29 – 00;14;22;28
Speaker 2
Doom I.
00;14;23;00 – 00;14;23;23
Speaker 1
Ever.
00;14;23;25 – 00;14;24;28
Speaker 2
Did because I started.
00;14;24;28 – 00;14;49;18
Speaker 1
To go into like all of these, like these three men and their procreation agendas and how, you know, and I’m like, this is not okay. This is not okay. And then we haven’t fixed the problem in this, like so. Then I started to spiral on that. And so it was the intensity of the conversation. It was the strong awareness that I have about how polarized these types of conversations are.
00;14;49;20 – 00;14;52;02
Speaker 1
And then when I went.
00;14;52;02 – 00;14;58;23
Speaker 2
Triggering triggering for certain people and sometimes taken out of.
00;14;58;23 – 00;15;00;05
Speaker 1
Context. Yeah.
00;15;00;08 – 00;15;02;10
Speaker 2
Which can make the trigger happen.
00;15;02;10 – 00;15;27;01
Speaker 1
And I already don’t feel comfortable in a political environment because I don’t feel it’s not a safe environment for me. Online is not safe. You know, posting anything about how you feel about anything feels unsafe. And for someone like me who is empathy is wrapped up in being understood and someone genuinely getting to know me instead of taking it out of context.
00;15;27;03 – 00;15;48;16
Speaker 1
That’s a theme even when I will post to Instagram and won’t read the comments because I can’t read the comments. Because some of the things that people say are really misunderstanding who I am as a person, right? So that’s that’s a struggle for me. So I was 100% positive at the time right after I got in the car and I was like, I’m all done with the podcast.
00;15;48;16 – 00;16;06;07
Speaker 1
I’m not doing the podcast anymore. We’re going to phase out the podcast completely. Not not just that session. Like, we’re all done. We’re going to have one more podcast because we’re not going to end on that note, and then we’re all done. I’m not doing it anymore. I felt so incredibly heightened sense of uncomfortable in that situation. And then as the day.
00;16;06;08 – 00;16;12;24
Speaker 2
Wait, I need to know why you went to that extreme and didn’t say, we’re not going to discuss any of those kinds of topics.
00;16;12;26 – 00;16;14;19
Speaker 1
I don’t know, isn’t that interesting?
00;16;14;24 – 00;16;27;22
Speaker 2
Like we need to put a limit on, our goal is to not spark controversy. Like, put more boundaries. Like, why didn’t you. Why didn’t you go to. We need to have more boundaries. Why did you say I’m all done?
00;16;27;24 – 00;16;44;15
Speaker 1
I think it was. I can’t put boundaries on it because then it’s inauthentic. And if it’s in authentic, then that ruins the entirety of why we do the podcast. Because the authenticity associated with the podcast is what I think makes people connected to the podcast. Right.
00;16;44;15 – 00;16;55;29
Speaker 2
Like but putting I mean, it’s kind of like, what’s that word? I don’t know what the audience, but, we talk about boundaries all the time. Right?
00;16;56;01 – 00;16;58;03
Speaker 1
So about about setting boundaries. Yeah.
00;16;58;04 – 00;17;01;21
Speaker 2
Right. So I think it would be completely normal to think step one.
00;17;01;21 – 00;17;04;27
Speaker 1
Part of it is probably also my very black and white thinking.
00;17;04;27 – 00;17;05;25
Speaker 2
Oh, maybe. Okay. Right.
00;17;06;00 – 00;17;17;18
Speaker 1
So I’m not thinking to myself there’s anything between 0 and 100 okay. And also I my nervous system was so heightened that I tend to do that anyway. You also think way worse.
00;17;17;18 – 00;17;19;26
Speaker 2
Oh yeah than they actually are as far.
00;17;19;26 – 00;17;38;11
Speaker 1
As I was concerned, when I watched when I just experienced that episode, and it was one of the worst things that I had ever come out on the air, ever, and was going to have people 100% stop listening to the podcast. No one, they’re going to hate you. Oh, they’re going to quasi hate me.
00;17;38;12 – 00;17;39;21
Speaker 2
Okay.
00;17;39;23 – 00;17;45;17
Speaker 1
And I don’t know how they feel about Scott and I don’t know if I. Scott’s always in the middle. Scott.
00;17;45;17 – 00;17;47;07
Speaker 3
No, I don’t care enough sometimes.
00;17;47;07 – 00;17;49;19
Speaker 1
Said some things. Scott sometimes said some things.
00;17;49;23 – 00;17;59;20
Speaker 2
But why would you think that they would hate me? Because everybody that listens to our podcast is a certain way. No.
00;17;59;22 – 00;18;17;05
Speaker 1
But those who are not like you might have a really hard time in the moment with some of the things that you had said, which is okay. Vice of in that part was not okay to me. Okay. Because that’s not okay to me, because I feel really protective of you.
00;18;17;07 – 00;18;17;23
Speaker 2
Okay.
00;18;17;23 – 00;18;38;08
Speaker 1
So it was coming out of this, and also because I know you to be someone that you will say things sometimes before you’ve thought them all through. And I’m willing to stick around for that and entertain that conversation. And I the people again, this is part of the political climate we’re in right now. They hang in for those conversations.
00;18;38;09 – 00;19;03;00
Speaker 1
They hear you say something like, whatever. And they’re like, ma out, hater, all done. She’s right. Or me too, right? So I’m playing that game by trying to be vanilla. We’re trying to like really understand the ins and outs of that. Now this is important to say that this was in the moment that this was.
00;19;03;00 – 00;19;06;16
Speaker 2
After we recorded for you. Right. We listened. All right.
00;19;06;16 – 00;19;26;10
Speaker 1
Okay. And I was feeling just a very strong sense of I don’t want people to see you in any other light. I don’t want people to see Scott in a certain way. I don’t want them to lump all three of us together. There are people who 100% don’t think like me and think to themselves, she’s playing this real safe.
00;19;26;10 – 00;19;44;06
Speaker 1
She needs to have a stronger opinion on this, right? But I again think to myself, I’ll shoulder that. That’s okay. I’ll I’ll handle that. Right. So it was coming out of this place of protection. And so then I said to Scott, because he sends me usually the episodes, the raw footage.
00;19;44;06 – 00;19;44;19
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
00;19;44;19 – 00;19;57;16
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. And the episodes. Now, most of them, we use generative AI to basically help us figure out what are the ins and outs in the stopping points in the descriptions.
00;19;57;16 – 00;20;01;02
Speaker 2
As a rapper. Meta L I use the app.
00;20;01;05 – 00;20;01;14
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00;20;01;16 – 00;20;08;12
Speaker 2
Meta L good meta meta L and how to help you up. Yeah, great. Yeah, they are great.
00;20;08;15 – 00;20;13;15
Speaker 1
Which is really great because it’s cut my review time from an hour and a half down to 15 minutes.
00;20;13;15 – 00;20;15;28
Speaker 2
Let’s talk about it. You are not working.
00;20;15;28 – 00;20;16;17
Speaker 1
With Marianne.
00;20;16;17 – 00;20;17;07
Speaker 2
Smarter.
00;20;17;13 – 00;20;20;09
Speaker 1
Get your own Marianne. Number one. She urinated for us.
00;20;20;11 – 00;20;22;03
Speaker 2
Yeah, right. Find. Find someone else.
00;20;22;06 – 00;20;25;19
Speaker 1
That’s right. Get yourself a Mary Joe. But Marianne is ours.
00;20;25;22 – 00;20;26;06
Speaker 2
Okay, anyway.
00;20;26;08 – 00;20;38;11
Speaker 1
So then I say, Scott, I need you to send me that full episode of that one because I need to rewatch it. So I get it, I go in, I rewatch it, I rewatch it at a time.
00;20;38;15 – 00;20;44;05
Speaker 2
How many times did you pause to take a poop? Or did you at least have urges?
00;20;44;07 – 00;20;51;01
Speaker 1
Oh oh, just right there the entire time I want to say at least one. And that was before we even got started, because I was so nervous about it.
00;20;51;01 – 00;20;52;16
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
00;20;52;17 – 00;21;00;13
Speaker 1
But this is where the fascinating part comes in. Okay, I rewatched that video and was like.
00;21;00;15 – 00;21;02;24
Speaker 2
That was much tamer than you thought.
00;21;02;26 – 00;21;11;28
Speaker 1
Oh, that’s okay, that’s fine. Okay, okay, I didn’t that’s actually pretty good episode, Oh, that’s really interesting.
00;21;11;28 – 00;21;14;15
Speaker 2
Oh okay. I mean, do you even think oh wow.
00;21;14;15 – 00;21;16;00
Speaker 1
Those are some good conversation topics.
00;21;16;01 – 00;21;29;20
Speaker 2
You know what’s funny? That you you just triggered me. That when I relisten, I’m like, it still triggers me to think different things or have. I’m like, oh, wow. We could we could have gone in this direction or this could have happened or what? Us? Yeah. So funny, so funny. Okay.
00;21;29;23 – 00;21;43;25
Speaker 1
And I walked away from that episode being like, that was great. Okay. I actually wasn’t really edgy at all. Scouted. Possible. So then so did you. What did I say? I sent it to you guys, and I said I would really strongly encourage you to watch this episode.
00;21;43;25 – 00;21;44;26
Speaker 2
I definitely do that to.
00;21;44;26 – 00;21;50;09
Speaker 1
Make sure that you are okay with whatever is going to be put out there on the interwebs, because this is a big one. I mean.
00;21;50;09 – 00;21;58;07
Speaker 2
If you’re okay, then everybody’s going to be fine. Probably. That’s how I view it. I’m like, if she’s okay with that, then, so it’s got you got you in.
00;21;58;07 – 00;22;02;24
Speaker 1
And Joe went in and what?
00;22;02;27 – 00;22;05;17
Speaker 3
Actually, I didn’t watch it again. I just gave it to Joe to watch.
00;22;05;18 – 00;22;06;08
Speaker 2
And what did he.
00;22;06;08 – 00;22;22;25
Speaker 3
He said, tell me if there’s anything that’s horrible that we shouldn’t post. And he said, that was great. He’s very he’s very astute politically. So if, if he was, you know, if he found anything that was a red flag, he would have told me. That was why.
00;22;22;25 – 00;22;23;24
Speaker 2
I will.
00;22;23;27 – 00;22;24;09
Speaker 3
Trust in.
00;22;24;09 – 00;22;30;22
Speaker 2
Him. So that was his lens. Aaron’s lenses. Are people going to have opinions about us as humans?
00;22;30;24 – 00;22;33;04
Speaker 3
No I know, oh, okay, I know, but okay.
00;22;33;07 – 00;22;35;16
Speaker 1
But he didn’t feel any of red flags in that way either.
00;22;35;16 – 00;22;46;11
Speaker 3
No, it was just a it was a conversation about opinions. And I don’t think any one of us really, doubled down on any of those opinions to the point where it was like, I don’t.
00;22;46;11 – 00;22;47;11
Speaker 2
Have a lot of double down.
00;22;47;11 – 00;22;54;20
Speaker 3
And it was more of like, this is what I’ve heard. This is what I think. I think, but I’m not quite sure. And, you know.
00;22;54;23 – 00;23;10;22
Speaker 2
And we’re open to discussion. And I could easily be have my mind changed. I could easily see a different point of view. But right now, with the with the information that I have, this is how I feel. That’s why I want to talk about it. Can you provide some insight and then. Oh, that might influence how I feel.
00;23;10;22 – 00;23;33;27
Speaker 2
But that’s how I approach those kinds of conversations in general, you know, and fully recognizing that watching a Netflix documentary, again, I don’t know who produced things like it all comes from people’s lenses and how they’re portraying information. So I’m very conscious of that. And don’t take it as ironclad. This is it, you know?
00;23;34;00 – 00;23;54;01
Speaker 1
So what amazed me about the rewatch was two things. One. I watched myself in that video knowing that I was probably the most anxious I’ve been in all of 2024, and you could not see it anywhere.
00;23;54;01 – 00;23;55;20
Speaker 2
Wow.
00;23;55;22 – 00;24;08;13
Speaker 1
You I don’t know, maybe I’ll have to. I’ll have to ask people who know me like, really, really, really, really well. Like, did you pick up on any of that? You couldn’t see it coming a mile away.
00;24;08;13 – 00;24;09;16
Speaker 2
But I had.
00;24;09;19 – 00;24;10;00
Speaker 3
To.
00;24;10;00 – 00;24;12;00
Speaker 2
I was like, that’s what I was going to say. I feel.
00;24;12;00 – 00;24;15;16
Speaker 1
Like. And then why was my question in, is that how you.
00;24;15;17 – 00;24;33;10
Speaker 2
Just shut it down? Okay, well then again, you’re so black and white. I would assume if you’re uncomfortable in the moment, you’re going to say, Scott, this is a timeout. We can’t do this. We need to pivot, cut it out. But you can’t do that. Think timer’s running and we’re doing session. But you can say guys we can’t.
00;24;33;13 – 00;24;37;03
Speaker 1
Wait until we got this. And I would be like we’re all done. We’re not posting that video.
00;24;37;03 – 00;24;39;02
Speaker 2
That was a waste of time. I a pivoted.
00;24;39;02 – 00;24;47;23
Speaker 1
I know I would rather because I can’t pick up, I can’t pick up halfway through and talk about a new topic and then only know it’s going to go for 30 minutes.
00;24;47;26 – 00;24;52;09
Speaker 2
You also have to debrief and process everything. Oh yeah. So therefore I should know that.
00;24;52;09 – 00;24;56;19
Speaker 3
I’m surprised that you would shit canned this whole thing because of one episode.
00;24;56;19 – 00;25;00;25
Speaker 2
Well, that’s what I mean. I’m surprised she didn’t say we got we got to put some boundaries on this.
00;25;00;28 – 00;25;26;20
Speaker 1
But again, this is this is one of my, I don’t know if it’s a defense mechanism or what it is. It I go to when I, when my nervous system is escalated to that point, it is like I’m put in fight or flight mode, and I’m not going to fight in that moment by because I didn’t have anything to fight.
00;25;26;20 – 00;25;44;03
Speaker 1
I didn’t even I didn’t have to fight with you. I didn’t have to fight with you, Scott. There was nothing to fight or flight. So I’m going to flight. But the what it takes to get me to that point one, there’s certain arguments with my husband that will put me in fight or flight, right? Two, that podcast put me in fight or flight.
00;25;44;05 – 00;25;55;14
Speaker 1
And I would say maybe three other things that I can think about that I don’t know off the top of my head, put me in that physical, I’m all shut.
00;25;55;14 – 00;26;12;24
Speaker 2
Down. I’m going to tell you what it has done. I tell you what it is at that point in time, multiple things in your life are happening. You are prepping to become a college professor, that you will now have exposure to a ton of new type of people.
00;26;13;13 – 00;26;29;24
Speaker 2
That’s number one. Number two people are people groups whatever are coming at you and giving you consulting opportunities, which now means your day structure. You’re almost right back in to crazy pants time. And you’re running a business.
00;26;30;24 – 00;26;32;07
Speaker 2
And what was primary.
00;26;32;07 – 00;26;34;20
Speaker 1
Sales people are institutions of higher education.
00;26;34;20 – 00;26;35;03
Speaker 2
Correct.
00;26;35;03 – 00;26;36;13
Speaker 1
And primary sales.
00;26;36;13 – 00;26;41;11
Speaker 2
Outlet. There are significant things. And Instagram.
00;26;41;13 – 00;26;41;23
Speaker 1
And.
00;26;41;29 – 00;26;42;21
Speaker 2
Instagram. Right.
00;26;42;23 – 00;26;50;06
Speaker 1
Which you know is a very, anxiety provoking outpouring of energy from.
00;26;50;06 – 00;26;58;10
Speaker 2
So had that particular episode happened back in February, March never would have had that reaction.
00;26;58;12 – 00;26;59;00
Speaker 1
Maybe not.
00;26;59;03 – 00;27;06;05
Speaker 2
No, I can tell you it wouldn’t it? That makes you would have it. You would have you would have a reaction of, oh, that didn’t feel good. I’m nervous, but you never would have said, I’m shutting this down.
00;27;07;12 – 00;27;15;04
Speaker 2
Your plate is overflowing again. And this was one of those things that’s like if I’ve got to take something off, it’s got to be this.
00;27;15;07 – 00;27;41;04
Speaker 1
Or I can’t continue to stand the attacks to my nervous system that put me in that place, because then it derails me for days. Correct. Right. I’m we’re talking actually weeks. So as an energy preservation, I think I go to shut down mode, which is I’m all done. I don’t want to do this anymore. Now, thankfully, I know that about myself in some of these situations.
00;27;41;04 – 00;27;55;20
Speaker 1
And what I don’t do is send off this message to both of you that says, hey guys, this has been really great. We’re all done. We’re not doing the podcast anymore, right? I don’t I’m not going to do that. I’m going to sit with it. I’m going to figure out, okay, where is this coming from? Right. Why am I feeling this way?
00;27;55;21 – 00;28;25;29
Speaker 1
Right. But I’m also finding myself highly sensitive right now, probably also because of the amount of overload that I had, about little things that usually don’t bother me. People’s definitive ness on things is driving me batty right now. People’s like judgment of things. Definitive ness. I have the answer. Listen to me. Which is ironic coming from me, I know is driving me nuts.
00;28;25;29 – 00;28;44;21
Speaker 1
I can’t hear it. I can not hear it right now. It makes me. Say want to say things that are absolutely inappropriate. It’s another thing I know about myself, right? I got a quick tongue and will say things that will very hurt people.
00;28;44;24 – 00;28;49;12
Speaker 2
And see I’m. I’m the opposite. I love, I love it. Oops oops. Whoa. Man down.
00;28;49;12 – 00;28;50;19
Speaker 1
Man.
00;28;50;22 – 00;29;02;28
Speaker 2
I love definitive ness because then I just know where people stand and I know how to manage that. It doesn’t make me not like you. It doesn’t make me not respect you. It doesn’t make anything. But don’t even.
00;29;02;28 – 00;29;19;26
Speaker 1
Think that the definitive ness for you that makes you feel better is because you genuinely allow people to have their definitive ness, and then you just accept that for what it is that they’re saying, right? And you’re like, okay, well, this is where this person is. Or if there’s a part of you that’s like, all right, well, that’s where you say you are.
00;29;19;26 – 00;29;39;19
Speaker 1
I know you’re not there, but whatever. You know, whatever, I’ll move on that that’s part of the comfort of that. Maybe because for me, you’ll tell me that that’s where you are on something and why you’re definitive about it. And I’m like, that’s not it. Gotta go down the rabbit hole. Of all the ways that your past experience and your past trauma and the way you think about things.
00;29;39;19 – 00;29;50;25
Speaker 1
And let me come up with different examples of ways that that that hasn’t been the case. And you sound so definitive. But remember when this happened and so like, it’s, it’s, it can never just be that that’s where the therapist part comes in.
00;29;50;25 – 00;30;04;12
Speaker 2
But maybe, maybe because I’m an energy, that same type of energy. And I had to build a long, long time ago. All these walls. I have to make it definitive because otherwise I will spiral. Yeah. So therefore.
00;30;04;14 – 00;30;21;04
Speaker 1
But I know that about you. Right? And then when I hear you say something definitive because I know you so well, I’m like, she doesn’t really mean that as definitively as it just sounded. And also people are going to judge you based on the fact that you were that definitive. But just so you’re clear, she’s really not a raging bob.
00;30;21;04 – 00;30;38;15
Speaker 1
Up up up up up up. Right. That’s not that’s not who she is. So then now I’m activated because now I’m worried that people are like, oh my God, Rebecca’s freaking crazy. In which, remember how I felt when you were talking about the gender roles? I’m so stupid. I’m so stupid. But I just don’t see, you.
00;30;38;15 – 00;30;50;19
Speaker 2
Know, that I went down the rabbit hole the other day and took three different. Are you a feminist? Because you could. Because you’re kind of double check. I can’t get high. Like, I don’t know, I right, I thought I was, but like, no, I’m like, I.
00;30;50;19 – 00;30;53;03
Speaker 1
Don’t know myself. Some questions that makes me part.
00;30;53;04 – 00;31;12;23
Speaker 2
But I think that’s part of the problem of taking individual things and having feelings about it versus a big topic and being definitive on it. Right. I can be very if you break down all the concepts of what it is to be a feminist, some of them I’m very strong on, some of them I’m not. Not so much like one stupid example.
00;31;12;23 – 00;31;31;24
Speaker 2
This is so stupid and I don’t. You can all judge me all you want and it’s fine. God it’s fine. I’m at the air show yesterday and you were sitting in our folding chairs or whatever, and, a woman with her family walks by. She was probably in college with her parents or whatever. Full on, hairy legs. Okay.
00;31;31;26 – 00;31;36;15
Speaker 2
And I had a very, very strong reaction to that. Okay. It’s not.
00;31;36;21 – 00;31;38;14
Speaker 1
You didn’t like that for her apt.
00;31;38;16 – 00;31;46;24
Speaker 2
I didn’t like it for me. Okay? I don’t want to look at it. Hey, I could not stop looking. It was gross.
00;31;46;26 – 00;31;50;12
Speaker 1
And so you’re saying that might not make you a feminist? Because the feminists would have said.
00;31;50;12 – 00;31;51;12
Speaker 2
Do your thing.
00;31;51;14 – 00;31;52;07
Speaker 1
Go, go, go.
00;31;52;10 – 00;32;14;16
Speaker 2
Reality is right. Let your feet go fight. Let it fly free. Go ahead. Let your freak flag fly. But that’s not okay for me. Yeah, and it’s not okay for my girls. I’m with you on that. We’re not doing that because that’s gross. Absolutely not. Right. So that was it. I know that’s one little teeny tiny thing, but that doesn’t make me not support women’s rights and equality and all that shit, right?
00;32;14;16 – 00;32;24;09
Speaker 2
Right. But I had a very strong feeling about that, right? In fact, I was waiting for Sawyer to turn to me and be like, is that a boy or a girl? Oh, right.
00;32;24;11 – 00;32;24;27
Speaker 1
Right.
00;32;25;00 – 00;32;27;17
Speaker 2
Right. So anyway, anyway, I know.
00;32;27;19 – 00;32;33;11
Speaker 1
But I know, okay. Feminism.
00;32;33;13 – 00;32;36;22
Speaker 2
We were talking about your reaction to reaction.
00;32;36;24 – 00;32;41;15
Speaker 1
My strong reaction to you until definitive ness.
00;32;41;17 – 00;32;44;07
Speaker 2
Yeah. That is not okay right now for you. You hate.
00;32;44;10 – 00;32;46;29
Speaker 1
Oh, that is just one thing that’s not there’s more thing. Oh.
00;32;46;29 – 00;32;47;29
Speaker 2
Oh, okay. Oh it’s.
00;32;47;29 – 00;32;57;11
Speaker 1
Okay. And so I’m oh I remember what I was going to say. I’m very aware of the overwhelm and how it’s associated with some of my reactions right now, which is.
00;32;57;14 – 00;32;58;11
Speaker 2
Which is normal.
00;32;58;11 – 00;33;16;01
Speaker 1
Thank God I know that. Right. And and I’m not just reacting to it. Even when we were on vacation with Nina and Laura, I was picking up on the fact that Nina wasn’t acting the way that she normally acts. So I’ve asked her three times, sure everything’s okay. Sorry. Right. Because I’m so hypersensitive to those and she’s like, oh yeah, my back hurts or whatever, right?
00;33;16;04 – 00;33;21;21
Speaker 1
I’m like, that, ain’t it? She’s not telling me. She’s not telling me what the what the issue is. Then I’m down the rabbit hole right.
00;33;21;23 – 00;33;22;02
Speaker 2
In your.
00;33;22;02 – 00;33;25;17
Speaker 1
Mind or within my mind. Oh, you’re in my mind. Okay. I almost wrote to her today.
00;33;25;24 – 00;33;26;21
Speaker 2
Oh my God, I.
00;33;26;21 – 00;33;41;26
Speaker 1
Almost was going to be like. I hope you have a really good day, by the way. Everything okay? What’s going on? Right. So then you add that hypervigilance to the conversation. But then this is what I was going to say about that. This leads to a conversation I had with Kelly up the street the other day.
00;33;41;28 – 00;33;42;29
Speaker 2
The word that I used.
00;33;42;29 – 00;33;53;07
Speaker 1
When I was talking to her was I imprint on people. So all I can think about is avatar, where you connect, you’re you’re a little, you’re a little or whatever. Your hair fins together.
00;33;53;10 – 00;33;54;20
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
00;33;54;22 – 00;34;31;23
Speaker 1
Or like a penguin feel like mates for life. So here’s the thing. I am such a committer that I have imprinted on these very certain people in my life. You’re one of them. Nina’s one of them. Renee is one of them. Kelly is one of them. When I say imprint, I mean, like, there’s really nothing in the world that you could do that would make me not come rushing in if something were to happen, or if you needed something or if you were upset.
00;34;31;23 – 00;34;43;19
Speaker 1
I wouldn’t go anywhere. Right. Those kind of things. But then once that imprinting, it’s just a terrible word. But once I was, once that avatar brain was the.
00;34;43;19 – 00;34;49;03
Speaker 2
Connection happened has been linked. Once the magnetic force is no longer inseparable.
00;34;49;04 – 00;34;53;14
Speaker 1
That’s right. Once we are one to become one, once we are one.
00;34;53;14 – 00;34;55;27
Speaker 2
Yeah. Once you’re twin flames too, you.
00;34;55;29 – 00;35;37;09
Speaker 1
Might as well. You might as well be an extension of my physical body. Okay, so. But what that does to someone who’s highly sensitive like myself is that now you’re getting that level of energy, connection, detail, awareness, whatever that I don’t give to everyone in the world, but I do give to this very small group of people. So then when I’m going through something in my life where I’m, you know, again, totally stressed out with all of these things happening, and then I misread or are oversensitive to a situation like how come Nina’s not talking as much as she used to, right?
00;35;37;09 – 00;36;00;23
Speaker 1
Or I’m worried that Rebecca said something during that podcast episode that people aren’t going to understand her correctly. Then I end up going down this energy rabbit hole of energy that I didn’t have to begin with that is now being exerted to caretaker in that way. And the reason we talked about imprinting was I can set really great boundaries with the people at the coffee shop.
00;36;01;00 – 00;36;31;27
Speaker 1
You’d like me to set boundaries a little bit quicker than I do, right? But I’m able to not take people home with me, right? The woman at target is another example, right? But when it is someone that I have imprinted with, there absolutely is no boundaries even I don’t care how many times you tell me there probably should be boundaries with these people, even if I disagree with things that people are doing, even if I’m like, that was the dumbest decision and I don’t want that for you, I cannot disconnect from that.
00;36;32;04 – 00;36;48;01
Speaker 1
And then you add to that this incredible depth of feeling and energy and connection, and it just sends me on these energy spirals that are I wish I could explain it in words. It is all soul encompassing.
00;36;48;01 – 00;36;50;16
Speaker 2
No, I absolutely understand.
00;36;50;18 – 00;37;15;00
Speaker 1
And that was playing out in that episode. Within that moment I’m so uncomfortable. Then I watch it back and I’m confused about why I was so uncomfortable. Then I’m confused about how I have the ability to hide it so well, because I was amazed at how what my inside was feeling compared to what my outside was projecting.
00;37;15;02 – 00;37;43;10
Speaker 1
Then I was like, well, why is that in and why were you in that escalated place versus just being present in the moment. And then I thought, well I think that I just have to I put it on myself to tend to so many things in a given moment. So I’m multitasking, right? I’m trying to frame the conversation around something that might be interesting for listeners.
00;37;43;12 – 00;37;57;15
Speaker 1
I’m trying to be aware of the time and like when we’re hitting certain time stamps with conversations. Yes, I’m trying to remember what we’ve just talked about in order to come back to it so that there aren’t weird blips.
00;37;57;19 – 00;38;14;14
Speaker 2
This is also very public. This isn’t a group of our friends, you know, like a house full of people that we know ins and outs. Because I’ve heard you have.
00;38;14;16 – 00;38;36;15
Speaker 2
Opinionated is not the right word. I mean, it is opinionated, but it’s done in a really nice way that isn’t offensive to people, but people kind of know where you stand, even if you disagree. Even people disagree. But that’s that’s how I’m coming across. I’m perfectly fine to have the conversation, but I’m also allowed to feel the way that I feel if I’m grossed out by your nasty ass hairy legs, that’s fine.
00;38;37;16 – 00;39;01;09
Speaker 2
I’m still going to be friends with you. I’m still going to hang out, I may say. How’s that hair feeling? I mean, whatever, yeah, but you know, like a comb, right? Right. But, like, you and I have had very serious conversations about gender neutral bathrooms. Yeah, right. We’ve in front of other people who feel the same, different whatever than the than, the topics we’re talking about.
00;39;01;09 – 00;39;26;16
Speaker 2
Yeah. And they can be really nice conversations. But at the end of the day, I know where you stand. You know where I stand. We’ve talked about, college daughters. A that’s that’s our past. Right. So, like, I have a very strong feelings about coed dormitories, like, there’s just certain things that exist in my brain. A certain way.
00;39;26;16 – 00;39;46;28
Speaker 2
Can I have intelligent conversations? Can I hear both sides? Can I understand? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, when it’s my turn for my kid to go there, I have to have a stance. Yep. And it’s got to be in line. I can’t say this out in public, but then when it comes to my kid, be different.
00;39;47;22 – 00;40;07;04
Speaker 2
Because that’s not fair and it’s not right. That makes me look like I play both sides of the fence. That’s what I get nervous about. I don’t, I don’t want somebody to, people can make assumptions about what I think and feel. That’s fine. But I don’t want to say to you this is how I feel. And then to another group of people this is how I feel.
00;40;07;04 – 00;40;12;22
Speaker 2
And they’re different. That feels honest and inauthentic to me. You know.
00;40;12;24 – 00;40;19;22
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I think the public nature of the podcast, coupled with the fact that it is recorded.
00;40;19;22 – 00;40;20;21
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;40;20;24 – 00;40;46;01
Speaker 1
And can be used or misused in any way. Stop that. Right. Exactly that, any way that anyone deems appropriate. So maybe there’s a trust component. I do not trust other people. Coupled with my stage and knowing what’s on the line for that. Right, like you talked about with being a professor. I’ve seen.
00;40;46;01 – 00;40;47;10
Speaker 2
People even just being published.
00;40;47;10 – 00;40;47;28
Speaker 1
Fired.
00;40;47;28 – 00;40;49;06
Speaker 2
For rape.
00;40;49;06 – 00;40;54;24
Speaker 1
Far less. Right. Just because, you know, someone said something or put something right.
00;40;54;24 – 00;40;59;04
Speaker 2
Absolutely. You’re in a very different,
00;40;59;06 – 00;41;00;07
Speaker 1
And so it doesn’t.
00;41;00;10 – 00;41;03;25
Speaker 2
Have social status, but you’re in a different realm than I am. Right?
00;41;03;26 – 00;41;22;19
Speaker 1
There’s there’s more at risk there. I remember, during one of these docu, one of these murder documentaries that I watched, it said, you can say with 100% certainty that you’ll never commit a crime, but you can never say with 100% certainty that you’ll never be accused of committing a crime. And that always has resonated with me. Right.
00;41;22;19 – 00;41;47;01
Speaker 1
So I can say for 100% certainty that I never mean to offend someone or say someone, that something that is hurtful or right. But I’m just so aware I have this hyper vigilance of awareness associated with the fact that anything I say in a moment in time is only ever precedented by my own experiences, and that just due to that, I could be offending someone.
00;41;47;08 – 00;42;01;16
Speaker 1
And then I don’t trust that that person’s going to come and say something about it. And now we live in a world where someone’s going to take that and throw it across the internet and then be like, look at this, you know, horrible person who does whatever. And then before you know it, you’ve lost control of the narrative.
00;42;01;19 – 00;42;12;22
Speaker 1
So there’s the themes, right? There’s control. There’s trust. There is, inability to make sure that everyone sees you. I’m so it’s so important for me that I’ve crafted.
00;42;12;25 – 00;42;13;19
Speaker 2
Or.
00;42;13;22 – 00;42;36;19
Speaker 1
Created this false sense of control around how I am seen in the eyes of other people. Right. And when there is a potential attack to that, what I would say, to be fair, the worst that’s ever happened from potential attack is that one viral video that got like 750,000 views and people’s comments, but how did I keep myself away from that?
00;42;36;19 – 00;43;07;21
Speaker 1
I just didn’t read the comments. Right. And so that I think all of those fears and all of those discomforts, coupled with the fact that I do want to state clearly how I feel about certain things, but maybe it is my mental health training, I feel like I can’t state how I feel about certain things with also pre-qualifying that with this is just what I know at this point in time.
00;43;07;21 – 00;43;22;09
Speaker 1
This is just how I feel right now. I probably could be very easily swayed into a different direction. Specifically, if you’re going to hit me with something that’s empathy based about someone who’s experienced something or felt something differently, or in this case, scenario, what about this?
00;43;22;11 – 00;43;48;08
Speaker 2
So I think I think that’s the part that’s interesting is that when you are so empathetic, it’s really difficult to make make decisions, sometimes very much so. And, you know, it’s funny, I, the one thing I just happened to post the other day on my personal page, about classroom rules, and it was interesting to me to see the comments in who they were coming from.
00;43;48;08 – 00;44;10;02
Speaker 2
And I thought, that’s a really interesting, because I know everybody’s backstory on the comments that came through. And I thought, of course you’re going to feel that way. Yeah, because that impacts you and your family. Yeah, right. And this is why I feel this way, because it impacts me and my family. Right. Do I have any. Ill will towards all of that.
00;44;10;02 – 00;44;31;23
Speaker 2
And that’s what that’s what becomes tricky because at the end of the day I do have empathy. But at the same time I’m like, if we’re constantly leading from that lens, then nothing is solved because, you know, God forbid, it’s like it’s like this whole transgendered and sports and this whole thing with the Olympics, right? It’s like people are like, well, let’s just have separate but equal.
00;44;31;25 – 00;44;40;19
Speaker 2
And then it’s like, but that’s offensive to this and that’s offensive to that. It’s like, oh my God. Well then we’re all somebody is always going to be offended at some point. Right. So what do you what.
00;44;40;20 – 00;44;53;20
Speaker 1
Are you what’s the opposite of that. Right. So having an opinion on something and saying, let’s use let’s use the example of the the class. Right. You’re like okay, so this comes from my family background but circumstances.
00;44;53;22 – 00;44;55;11
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.
00;44;55;14 – 00;45;06;26
Speaker 1
And what makes sense for your family. What makes sense for your kids. Right. I think what happens in those scenario. So so Rebecca had posted and was it, it was on your personal page. It was, it was on.
00;45;06;28 – 00;45;07;28
Speaker 2
My personal page.
00;45;08;03 – 00;45;08;25
Speaker 1
The Facebook.
00;45;08;25 – 00;45;09;16
Speaker 2
Page. Correct.
00;45;09;16 – 00;45;21;13
Speaker 1
Okay. So, Rebecca had posted, video and it was on classroom management rules, and it was a teacher who basically said, if you’re going to be in my classroom, here’s the things that you’re going to abide by.
00;45;21;13 – 00;45;23;15
Speaker 2
She called them non-negotiables, non-negotiable.
00;45;23;16 – 00;45;56;03
Speaker 1
So there’s like five things or something that we’re non-negotiables and so you’re saying if you if you’re posting that and you’re like, this is my opinion and my thought about what this fits, what would be your expectation and or thoughts about people from different family backgrounds who responded in a certain way, who are like, oh, that doesn’t really sit right with me because or oh, that feels really strict in an environment where my kids are not going to be able to participate in that.
00;45;56;05 – 00;46;15;10
Speaker 1
Or I wonder if we could just change up some of the wording, for instance, from non-negotiable to, I don’t know what would be less than non-negotiable, but like, classroom culture, you know, like just just those small changes and.
00;46;15;12 – 00;46;33;07
Speaker 2
Why why does that matter? Why does because in my my opinion, non-negotiable is clear. This is a non-negotiable. You break this rule. This is what happens, right? Culture is a very gray. That’s very gray. Right. And I’m sorry, but then,
00;46;33;10 – 00;46;36;26
Speaker 1
Because non-negotiable is exclusionary.
00;46;36;28 – 00;46;38;06
Speaker 2
But I’m okay with that.
00;46;38;09 – 00;47;01;10
Speaker 1
Okay. So that’s important. Okay. That’s important. Yeah. But then what you also said was, what you’re really saying is I’m okay if other people get excluded from these types of environments or situations, but that’s my kid that’s getting excluded for real. That’s my kid who’s getting excluded. So then what does that mean for me, and what does that mean for our relationship?
00;47;01;10 – 00;47;18;21
Speaker 1
So how do I feel safe in a relationship where you have very clear cut opinions on the fact that my kids should not be in a classroom with your child because my kid can’t do what your kid could do, and you want my kid in a separate room somewhere where he can be with kids who do what his kids, what kids like him do.
00;47;19;15 – 00;47;20;27
Speaker 1
What does what does that mean?
00;47;20;27 – 00;47;23;27
Speaker 2
Why can’t my kid be in a separate room?
00;47;23;29 – 00;47;27;14
Speaker 1
But. But what does that. What does that mean? Right. So I think that’s.
00;47;27;14 – 00;47;27;28
Speaker 2
That means.
00;47;27;28 – 00;47;32;26
Speaker 1
That’s the part where that’s exclusionary is.
00;47;32;28 – 00;47;41;08
Speaker 1
How does someone respond to that and not what are you expecting from that? You want people to not have a reaction? Or do you want people to like what?
00;47;41;13 – 00;48;08;23
Speaker 2
No no no no no, it wasn’t that at all. The reason why I put that out there is because my feeling is in a public classroom environment, there has to be specific standards. It can’t be. Well, we’re going to take everything case by case because I just don’t think that’s how the world works. And and kids spend more time in school than they do at home unless it’s summer.
00;48;08;24 – 00;48;37;27
Speaker 2
Well, even then, maybe they’re not at home so much. So they’re learning a lot, and they’re learning about. Work culture, public culture, things like that. So I guess I just don’t trust that the translation out of quote unquote public school, when you finish high school is going to necessarily equate to a case by case basis. When you get into the work world.
00;48;37;29 – 00;48;48;23
Speaker 1
And you’re worried that if a kid like my kid is in your daughter’s classroom, that she’s not going to be adequately prepared for that world outside because he’s slowed them down.
00;48;48;25 – 00;49;02;09
Speaker 2
No, no, no, no, no, I maybe we need to say what the non-negotiables work just so that people have a clear understanding. So the non-negotiables were, you pick up after yourself, right? If you throw some, you throw something in the.
00;49;02;09 – 00;49;03;11
Speaker 1
Trash, says, pick it up.
00;49;03;13 – 00;49;04;13
Speaker 2
Pick it up. We are not.
00;49;04;13 – 00;49;07;07
Speaker 1
Here. I’m not picking up after you. Right. You make a mess, you pick.
00;49;07;10 – 00;49;27;03
Speaker 2
You clean it. Right. That was. That was the one. Yeah. That was that was one of them. The second one was, classroom, resources like pens, scissors, crayons, things like that are used as you’re working tools that you’re not used as toys in the minute you use them as toys. I’m taking them away. And you will have to figure out how to complete your work without them.
00;49;27;05 – 00;49;45;12
Speaker 2
Right? I feel that that’s perfectly acceptable. The second one is you need to keep your hands to yourself and you don’t get to hit back. And if you do, you are immediately sent to the administrative office, right? We do not. I don’t care if your parents tell you to fight back, I don’t care. You are going to be removed and sent to the principal’s.
00;49;45;18 – 00;49;48;16
Speaker 2
You keep your hands to yourself. That was the third.
00;49;48;18 – 00;49;50;18
Speaker 1
One was when I talked to you.
00;49;50;19 – 00;49;52;05
Speaker 2
You do need to ignore me.
00;49;52;05 – 00;49;56;13
Speaker 1
And you need to acknowledge what I’ve said to you and you need to say back.
00;49;56;13 – 00;49;57;01
Speaker 2
Nope, she didn’t.
00;49;57;01 – 00;50;00;07
Speaker 1
Say something else. I don’t think you need some type of dialog with me.
00;50;00;07 – 00;50;17;28
Speaker 2
No, she didn’t say that. She said, if I if when I acknowledge you, I need you to acknowledge me back. She did not specify how it was to be done. She just said there if when I when I’m standing at my door greeting you, you need to acknowledge me. It’s how she said it and what there was no it was for.
00;50;17;28 – 00;50;18;19
Speaker 1
I don’t remember.
00;50;18;19 – 00;50;36;08
Speaker 2
What the fight might have been another one, but they were the. In my mind, those are standard civility practices that should happen at all times. If you were walking into a store and checking out with the checkout person, do you have to have a full on conversation with them? Absolutely not. Do you look at them and smile or you don’t need to say anything?
00;50;36;08 – 00;50;45;04
Speaker 2
You don’t need to do nothing. You acknowledge their presence. That is standard in my book. You need to clean up after yourself. That is standard in my book.
00;50;45;05 – 00;50;50;05
Speaker 1
At their at their highest level. I agree with that. Yeah, at their highest level okay. It’s one.
00;50;50;06 – 00;50;51;02
Speaker 2
So that’s what I meant.
00;50;51;02 – 00;51;10;14
Speaker 1
Nuances of what that means. My kid’s going to put my hand on some kid in that classroom. I’m 100% positive. Why? Because he has A.D.D.. He has an auditory processing disorder. And he has a very hard time paying attention. Part of his A.D.D. and his auditory processing disorder is that he’s going to put his hand on someone when he is.
00;51;10;14 – 00;51;28;21
Speaker 1
Whatever has gotten stimulated to a point where he can’t sit there and pay attention. Honestly, because the classroom environment is not made for a kid like my kid. And so now when my kids in that classroom environment, what happens to happen? I was just going to get sent to the office constantly and is going to be, you know, identified as the bad kid and whatever.
00;51;28;21 – 00;51;47;29
Speaker 1
Now, I’m not saying that my kid gets to take cheap shots at all these kids all of the time. Right? But I am saying that a good teacher who who isn’t talking about non-negotiable non-negotiables from the standpoint of don’t put your hands on me, says something along the lines of we need to be mindful about where we are at versus where other people are at.
00;51;47;29 – 00;52;09;27
Speaker 1
And when we do put our hands on other people, there will be consequences to that, right? What that consequence looks like doesn’t mean my kids automatically getting sent to the office. Maybe it means we have identified that he is that kind of kid, and we remove him from a situation, or we give him, get him to a stand up desk, or we get him his fidget toys before he puts his hands on someone else.
00;52;10;02 – 00;52;27;19
Speaker 2
But what’s interesting to me about this whole conversation, again, you’re coming at it from your lens. I’m coming at it from my lens. My lens is this is just basic civility. Some bully kid who maybe doesn’t have any of those issues that you’re that your child is diagnosed with. This is just an asshole who wound up on people.
00;52;27;19 – 00;52;28;20
Speaker 1
But I would also say, you.
00;52;28;20 – 00;52;29;16
Speaker 2
Don’t get to do that.
00;52;29;16 – 00;52;37;28
Speaker 1
But that asshole kid also is having behaviors that are indicative of something else going on for him. And I think that’s what happens is that when.
00;52;37;28 – 00;52;52;18
Speaker 2
But that’s not the teacher’s job to figure out. In my opinion. What if if this is a constant problem, the teacher has to manage so many things? I’m I’m making a lot of assumptions that this teacher is just in a basic ass classroom with probably not a lot of support.
00;52;52;22 – 00;52;53;09
Speaker 1
As they all.
00;52;53;09 – 00;53;05;23
Speaker 2
Are, right? So therefore she can’t take the time out of the day. Find the managing. So send them to the send them somewhere where the other where that person can be like, let’s let’s really get down to why your hands are on other piece.
00;53;05;23 – 00;53;20;03
Speaker 1
That’s the case. That’s fine, but don’t give me your five non-negotiables, because your five non-negotiables have indicated to me that only certain types of people are going to be accepted here, because I have I don’t have time to manage the rest of it if I don’t.
00;53;20;03 – 00;53;21;00
Speaker 2
Take that video at all.
00;53;21;00 – 00;53;21;22
Speaker 1
She said.
00;53;21;22 – 00;53;22;22
Speaker 2
It was like how.
00;53;22;22 – 00;53;29;09
Speaker 1
She said it, because I agree in concept with the general principles about what she is talking about.
00;53;29;09 – 00;53;38;11
Speaker 2
But she’s not, in my opinion, she’s not talking to outraged people that that’s her language to the third graders.
00;53;38;13 – 00;53;40;20
Speaker 1
I got a bigger problem with that.
00;53;40;22 – 00;53;43;18
Speaker 2
I mean, and that’s okay. That’s okay. You you can do that.
00;53;43;20 – 00;54;15;16
Speaker 1
But the the problem that I have is that unless you are a part of a group that has felt that level of exclusion, you’re not aware of the ways in which those terms and those wordings, when they are excluding your child, how that feels. And so you continue to get oppressed over and over and over again when people don’t pay attention to their language because it fits their narrative and their family and they’re okay with it, the smallest change in language, in my mind, allows us to both be in a place where both can feel included.
00;54;15;18 – 00;54;32;23
Speaker 1
That doesn’t have to go all the way to the crazy left liberal place of being like, okay, well, if you do touch someone and punch them in the face, well, we’re going to sit down. We’re all going to sing Kumbaya and handle it together. I don’t feel that way either. Right? But it’s the small little nuances in language that make a difference to, in this case, parents.
00;54;32;23 – 00;54;51;14
Speaker 1
I think this could be widespread on and any single topic, right? If we’re not paying attention to the language. I happen to be incredibly linguistic as well. So that matters to me. Words matter to me. The small little changes that we can make. Can that help people feel like they can still be included while standards can still be capped?
00;54;51;17 – 00;55;13;08
Speaker 1
And my problem with her non-negotiables here is I don’t know much in life that has a non-negotiable label on it, because we are not all the same. We do not all experience things in the same way, and there has to be some degree of variability.
00;55;13;11 – 00;55;43;11
Speaker 2
Yes, and I’m interpreting what she’s saying as it’s not directed to children who need support in other ways. Do you know what I mean? Like what you talked about with Carter putting his hands on people? My guess is it’s not directed towards him. It’s directed toward somebody specific. It’s the kids playing with the scissors, throwing crayons, putting glue all over on purpose.
00;55;43;13 – 00;56;06;13
Speaker 2
Not the kids who are struggling because of X, Y, and Z, whatever. It’s the purposeful stuff. It’s the I’m going to make a mess with the glitter and whatever all over, and then get up and walk away, or I’m in the cafeteria and I’m just going to eat my lunch and leave it all there. It’s that kind of, behavior that I believe she is talking about.
00;56;06;15 – 00;56;18;25
Speaker 1
I think that’s because you, because I know you and you have the ability to state something like that, but also know that there are.
00;56;18;27 – 00;56;21;09
Speaker 2
Exclusions, to that.
00;56;21;11 – 00;56;36;05
Speaker 1
But how would anyone know that one if they didn’t know you? And to even someone who does know you incredibly well sees that you post that and immediately it’s like, mom, my kids out of that class, that’s me. I have known you for 20.
00;56;36;05 – 00;56;38;04
Speaker 2
Years, right? And that’s part.
00;56;38;04 – 00;56;51;13
Speaker 1
Of the problem of where we’re at right now, is you can’t have a whole three paragraph diatribe where you’re like, hey, I saw this Instagram video and I just want to make a couple things clear. I don’t think this includes this, and I don’t think it includes that. Right.
00;56;51;13 – 00;56;55;29
Speaker 2
But I wouldn’t say that because I did it all right. And in reality, I’m not going to make sense. I’m not.
00;56;55;29 – 00;56;56;26
Speaker 1
Going to think it’s too.
00;56;56;26 – 00;57;13;21
Speaker 2
Much. And I’m also not going to debate with anybody either, because that’s not that’s not a that’s not my personality. And B, it’s not something that I feel so strongly about that I have to go back and forth with someone. But it’s just it’s just my general opinion that this is civility. And maybe I should have said that.
00;57;13;21 – 00;57;20;25
Speaker 2
Maybe I should have said this is just my standard opinion of civility in a classroom. But you you do.
00;57;20;25 – 00;57;29;13
Speaker 1
Have the ability to be able to make those next step, you know. Oh, well, I wasn’t really saying that right.
00;57;29;16 – 00;57;37;16
Speaker 2
But I also believe that when it gets to a certain point there, there does have to be some clear cut.
00;57;37;18 – 00;57;38;14
Speaker 1
Distinctions.
00;57;38;19 – 00;57;39;05
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;57;39;05 – 00;57;41;17
Speaker 1
Or accommodations or whatever or.
00;57;41;17 – 00;57;58;01
Speaker 2
Whatever it may be, because no one’s thriving and everybody deserves to thrive. I do feel that way. I feel very strongly about that. And reality is, if I could homeschool and do those kinds of things and do things the way that I want to do them, I absolutely would. But that’s not my luxury. Yeah, I wonder.
00;57;58;01 – 00;58;27;27
Speaker 1
If part of the challenge, though, is everyone is always viewing things through their own lens. And what’s happening now because of that. And I think that you can’t change that is that people feel hurt, not even offended. They feel hurt. They don’t know how to acknowledge it as hurt. And then when they’re feeling hurt then they don’t know how to reconcile that hurt.
00;58;28;23 – 00;58;55;19
Speaker 1
And it’s people who get hurt more often than others who continue specifically in what we’re seeing right now politically. Get hurt more and more and more and more. So every time you post the the little meme that says Trump 2024. Right. Someone’s getting hurt by that. Now you might not be someone who hates LGBT people right.
00;58;55;19 – 00;59;31;11
Speaker 1
But that person who is LGBTQ says you do if you are posting that meme. Right. Right. So people are getting hurt and it happens to be the people who are more marginalized already, or the people who have already been experiencing hurt and have fighted afforded, fought and fought and fucked. Fought for their rights that are so tired of having to fight that same fight that when something as simple as something like that gets posted and they don’t know or think to themselves, well, she’s I’m going to give her the benefit of the doubt.
00;59;31;11 – 00;59;35;14
Speaker 1
She’s meeting this more generally that through their lands burns they’re again hurt.
00;59;35;17 – 00;59;38;22
Speaker 2
Right. Because it’s their just constantly hurt.
00;59;38;24 – 01;00;03;12
Speaker 1
That’s right and that’s right. And and my hope and part of why I think I hedge my bets in many of these scenarios is I don’t want people to feel that hurt. And I know that if I have a strong opinion about something that I can talk to you about, that I can, you know, have my beers around the fire with people talking about that.
01;00;03;14 – 01;00;25;08
Speaker 1
But I find myself as an extreme empath, highly hyper vigilant to the fact that I do know people come from their own lands and they are going to be potentially hurt. And I don’t want someone to feel hurt through either misunderstanding my message or through knowing that their lens. And so that is what to circle back around to.
01;00;25;08 – 01;00;44;10
Speaker 1
The very beginning of this conversation is going to keep me more vanilla in certain situations. Sure. And what is going to not have me? You know, I honestly wouldn’t tell you that I have incredibly strong opinions about much. There are some things, right? And I do think that that might also be a trauma response. That’s a whole different episode, right?
01;00;44;12 – 01;01;18;10
Speaker 1
So empathy as a form of trying to be a little bit more vanilla for me comes from the fact that I’m constantly thinking through. People may have a reaction to this. This might upset some other people. This might trigger someone else. I don’t want someone to feel this certain way. And what I lose as a result of that is the authenticity of having a critically defined opinion on a whole bunch of things, or not posting something that happens to mean something of importance to me, right?
01;01;18;11 – 01;01;47;02
Speaker 1
So that is something that I lose as a result of that approach. The opposite, though, seems true for you that you can be more opinionated on certain things, but what you will lose as a result of that approach is people feeling comfortable coming to talk to you about certain things or people, feeling close to you because they feel that they’ve been harmed in some way.
01;01;47;06 – 01;02;06;15
Speaker 1
Right. And so I think that’s one of the differences for both of us is that we’ve both calculated that. And you’re just willing to take risks that I’m not and I’m willing to be more passive than you are. There’s not necessarily a right or wrong, but there’s positives and negatives that come with both of those approaches.
01;02;06;20 – 01;02;24;24
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think at the end of the day, I just think about like I like I said, when when it comes to my kids, just like when it comes to your kids and anybody else’s kids, I want I want the best for my kids. Just as much as you want the best for your kids, and your path of that is a certain way, and my path is a certain way.
01;02;25;00 – 01;02;48;26
Speaker 2
It doesn’t make either one better or worse. And there are ebbs and flows amongst at all times. And I think that’s what’s so hard is specifically when it comes to election year, is when all that crap is just thrown out there. It really forces you into a box in a lot of ways because I think about, you know, my just at the Olympics, being on my daughter’s an athlete, I’ll be damned.
01;02;49;02 – 01;03;15;08
Speaker 2
The day some man is on her team, like, you know. And so I feel very strongly about that. Do I have people that I know that are transgendered and love them very much? Absolutely. But that doesn’t change my opinion about female sports. You know, so I have to be that. That’s what becomes tricky for me because I am not black and white, but I am black and white with certain things.
01;03;15;08 – 01;03;33;28
Speaker 2
Like, you know, when my daughter goes to college, she’s not going to be sharing a dorm room with any other random person of the opposite sex. Like now they have coed dorm rooms, but you could be a girl, and a boy could be put into the same room because it’s just gender neutral. I’m not talking about trans people.
01;03;33;28 – 01;04;01;19
Speaker 2
I’m talking about right? Human beings? Anybody? I have a problem with that? I am not okay with that. Period. So. But that comes to my kid, you know, I don’t know, I think I think that it’s it’s very difficult to be. I’m afraid. I’m afraid is not the word, but, I don’t want to say something. And then people see my actions when it comes to my child.
01;04;01;19 – 01;04;09;27
Speaker 2
Be different. Does that make sense? Because then it doesn’t see, it’s like, well, then what? Are you lying? You just telling me what you want. What you want me to hear?
01;04;10;00 – 01;04;14;15
Speaker 1
So it’s important for you to be aligned in what you say and what you do.
01;04;14;16 – 01;04;37;18
Speaker 2
Yes. That feels important to me. And people can judge that how they want. If they think I’m hard and fast, or if they think I don’t see other things. But at the end of the day, there has sometimes there’s has to be a decision made. You know, am I am I okay with, putting my kids on a sports team that is known to be a particular kind of way?
01;04;37;25 – 01;05;03;14
Speaker 2
You know what I mean? Based on whatever it may be. I either am or I’m not. You know, I don’t know if I’m explaining that correctly. Am I okay? Am I going to seek out, a dance school that is a specific kind of way, whether it be competitive, whether it be all inclusive, whatever. Yes. I’m going to do what I feel is best suited for my kid.
01;05;03;17 – 01;05;08;10
Speaker 2
Right? Or I will take them out and put them somewhere else. I don’t have that luxury with public school.
01;05;09;13 – 01;05;13;23
Speaker 1
What why is it so important.
01;05;13;25 – 01;05;15;07
Speaker 2
To.
01;05;15;09 – 01;05;56;20
Speaker 1
Have for you specifically to have kangaroo court. Kangaroo. Kangaroo. I think that’s all right. Brilliant. Congruent nest. Whatever between how you say you feel about something and the actions, the actions that you do like that feels like a this is really important to me. And I want this to be the case in a similar way that the I don’t want to make a really strong determination about someone, because I don’t want to offend someone, because I don’t genuinely want to hurt people’s feelings, feels like a lifeblood to me.
01;05;56;23 – 01;06;03;21
Speaker 1
So why is that part so important to you? Where does that come from or why?
01;06;03;23 – 01;06;07;28
Speaker 2
Why is it important to be congruent? So I heard two different things, but maybe I’m misinterpreting.
01;06;08;01 – 01;06;23;16
Speaker 1
So you’re saying important to be so why is that so Uber important to you? To be congruent in what you say and then what you do? Because you said a couple of times, I don’t want to be I don’t want to say something. And then, you know, all of a sudden I go over here and I do something different.
01;06;23;16 – 01;06;29;06
Speaker 1
And then people are like, you know, what the hell? You know, where is she? Why is that congruency really important to you?
01;06;29;08 – 01;06;54;14
Speaker 2
Because I think that’s at the end of the day, just my core, the core of myself. And that’s where I, I can go to sleep at night because. It it doesn’t feel like people pleasing I guess is maybe is the word I don’t, I don’t know because I would never want somebody to be like, oh well she told me this, but then did you see what she did was I think.
01;06;54;21 – 01;06;56;18
Speaker 1
Because that was what.
01;06;56;20 – 01;06;58;21
Speaker 2
That is more hurtful. I think.
01;06;58;22 – 01;06;59;15
Speaker 1
You mean hurtful to.
01;06;59;15 – 01;07;08;19
Speaker 2
You know, to other people. Oh, because it’s like, well, wait a minute. She took me to them. Maybe. Yes, yes. Yeah.
01;07;08;22 – 01;07;11;13
Speaker 1
You’ve you’ve led them to believe something. Right.
01;07;11;13 – 01;07;25;26
Speaker 2
And then and then all of a sudden it’s like, well, wait a minute. She, she said she believes in supports in this, but then she, she made this action over here and that doesn’t align. So that feels weird.
01;07;25;29 – 01;07;38;08
Speaker 1
Is that more about other people or is that more about. I don’t want people coming back to me and being like, you hypocrite. Maybe you said you weren’t okay with this, but but what is it? Is that also coming from a place of not wanting to be misunderstood?
01;07;38;10 – 01;07;41;16
Speaker 2
Maybe.
01;07;41;18 – 01;07;44;18
Speaker 2
I mean, I’m also not.
01;07;44;21 – 01;07;50;12
Speaker 1
Again, I’m not saying why. Like it’s a bad quality. No, no, no, I’m just genuinely trying to understand. Yeah, absolutely I do I, I.
01;07;50;12 – 01;07;53;15
Speaker 2
Don’t know, I and but at the same time I feel like.
01;07;53;18 – 01;08;03;24
Speaker 1
If you were misunderstood or if you did say something and then did something else, what would happen?
01;08;03;26 – 01;08;05;15
Speaker 2
You mean if the person called me out on it?
01;08;05;18 – 01;08;17;29
Speaker 1
Yeah. Or what? What would your fear be if that were to happen? What that means? What about you?
01;08;18;02 – 01;08;27;09
Speaker 2
I don’t I don’t know, I, I’m, I don’t know, I guess I would need an example because.
01;08;27;11 – 01;08;45;15
Speaker 1
If you said I am not okay with Taylor going off to college and living in a coed living environment, that is not okay. That’s one of my biggest platforms. I am not okay with that. I’m really all gendered, you know, all saying I want her to be in a female Dolan female dorm. Yes.
01;08;45;15 – 01;09;01;06
Speaker 2
All women. Now, granted, what’s difficult too is when you turn 18, you’re considered an adult, right? So I really don’t have a lot of control. I can have influence over her, but at the end of the day, she’s going to pick right to do what she wants right? So that that’s kind of a hard one. But,
01;09;01;08 – 01;09;10;26
Speaker 1
But if you said you’re really not okay with that at the, at the end of the day, and then, well, I mean, that is a bad example. I know people have independent choice.
01;09;10;29 – 01;09;15;16
Speaker 2
They can she can choose and and her and I can have it out, but I can’t I can’t have it. I went to school.
01;09;15;16 – 01;09;30;23
Speaker 1
You wouldn’t consider that an aspect of you being a hypocrite, because if Taylor just goes and decides to do something else, you’re still real clear on how you feel about that. So I’m trying to think of an example where you would say something would.
01;09;30;23 – 01;09;31;07
Speaker 2
Be really.
01;09;31;07 – 01;09;35;13
Speaker 1
True, and then you would go back on that or do something else.
01;09;35;15 – 01;09;58;12
Speaker 2
Well, I’m trying to think of a situation that I can control. Like the only things I can think of that are a potential issue. And, gender neutral bathrooms in elementary schools. Okay. Right. Like boys and girls using not just a single stall. Yeah, like a full on. I have a really strong opinion about that. Yeah. What do I do with that?
01;09;58;15 – 01;10;20;20
Speaker 1
I can’t so, like, let’s pull her out. Let’s say you joined the PTA, right? Right, right. And then you are like, which I wouldn’t do. You are the mom. I would need to go right in. You’re on the PTA, and now the PTA has taken up, the fact that we are going to bring gender neutral bathrooms to the to the K12 and you are highly against it, and you’re very you’re very clear that you’re highly against it.
01;10;20;20 – 01;10;29;11
Speaker 1
But there’s five people on this board. Three of them vote. Absolutely. This is what we’re doing. You and one other mom.
01;10;29;14 – 01;10;33;20
Speaker 2
Dad. No. Whatever. Right. Community member I don’t know. Yeah.
01;10;33;20 – 01;10;49;24
Speaker 1
And then it comes out in the PTA newsletter. PTA, you know, approves gender neutral restrooms. This is what we’re doing. Would that be an example of something that was really hard for you? Or would you still be like, I’m okay with that because I was a no vote, I wouldn’t have changed my vote to yes.
01;10;49;24 – 01;10;51;15
Speaker 2
Correct. I wouldn’t have changed my vote. Yes.
01;10;51;15 – 01;10;57;13
Speaker 1
So even if you were the holdout, one vote, that still would be okay, because you’re you’re essentially.
01;10;57;15 – 01;10;58;18
Speaker 2
I see it in my opinion.
01;10;58;24 – 01;11;03;14
Speaker 1
And it would be okay for you to still stay on the PTA because you still stated your opinion.
01;11;03;14 – 01;11;24;05
Speaker 2
Yes, I state my opinion. If the group decides to move in a different direction, that’s fine. The ultimate problem I have is I’m not okay with that. What do I do now? What are my other alternatives for my child’s education? I don’t have money to send her to a private school, so now do I just have to suck it up and deal because that’s my only option?
01;11;24;07 – 01;11;38;16
Speaker 2
Or do I figure it out? Do you know what I mean? Like, that’s that’s where I struggle. It’s like when when the public is catering to the public, where are the lines drawn?
01;11;41;02 – 01;11;42;06
Speaker 1
Yeah. Interesting.
01;11;42;06 – 01;11;51;26
Speaker 2
That’s what I meant by the non-negotiables. There has to be some standard of civility. In all cases.
01;11;51;28 – 01;12;09;11
Speaker 1
Sure. And I actually really agree with that. I just don’t think they’re called non-negotiables because when they’re non-negotiable, well, then we have a dictator in that classroom who’s determining what type of people belong in this classroom, and that if you can’t fit in that mold, then you’re not allowed here.
01;12;09;26 – 01;12;34;05
Speaker 1
But if I don’t call it a non-negotiable and I call it, I don’t, I don’t know, something other than non-negotiable, right? That isn’t as flowery as my hopes for the class, you know, which also feels to limited to me. Right. But something that feels like we can strike a happy medium with the fact that I have some real, clear guidelines and expectation around how we’re going to be.
01;12;34;05 – 01;13;01;23
Speaker 1
I actually think Kelly up the street did a really nice job. In her response. She was like, yeah, I fixed this right. And when I read it, I thought, I really like how a lot of that is worded. Some of it might be even more a little flowery than what I even would have said myself. Right. But something about that change in the language in some ways, made it feel like a safe place to still have expectations of how we’re going to run this classroom, but also didn’t include my kiddo in the process.
01;13;02;00 – 01;13;33;17
Speaker 1
And it’s something as small as one word, right? And that’s where I get back to this this hurt dynamic and just so aware how hurt people are. Right now, particularly people who don’t fit into certain molds. And we keep hurting those people over and over and over again. When we use restrict language that doesn’t include or in some way acknowledge that there may be some type of difference in some way, shape or form.
01;13;33;19 – 01;13;57;17
Speaker 1
In continuing that narrative is scary for me, right? Because I know I’m strong enough to talk through it, to work through it, to have an opinion about it, to, you know, start using different language to combat it in a different way. But I just know so many other people, particularly people who have been so marginalized, aren’t.
01;13;57;19 – 01;14;13;09
Speaker 1
And when you don’t have a place for that hurt and you keep feeling oppressed by people who might have the best intentions in the world and not even mean it, but it still hurts. Through their lens that I worry about what that means for the future of everybody.
01;14;13;11 – 01;14;31;05
Speaker 2
Well, I’ll tell you right now, it’s we’re just going to continue to get more and more divided. That’s that’s what is going to happen because I still feel the way I do. And I’m sorry that it causes hurt and that’s not my intent. But I still feel that way. Right. I mean we can change the language all day.
01;14;31;05 – 01;14;55;20
Speaker 2
That’s fine. But I still feel that way. And if we can’t, if that standard can’t be met, then it’s time to talk about alternatives. Or maybe that’s not the right environment because it just isn’t. So maybe that means my kid needs to go into a different classroom. Okay. It’s like it’s it’s it’s about what’s best for everyone, you know?
01;14;55;27 – 01;15;23;03
Speaker 2
And the my only experience in the classroom with, with my youngest is that she really struggled in third grade because she was nice to the kid who couldn’t focus, and she was forced to sit next to him because she was the only one who would include him in things which ultimately hurt her in her academics and her ability to focus because he was so distracting.
01;15;23;09 – 01;15;45;25
Speaker 2
But because she’s in third grade and has terrible communication skills, couldn’t tell anybody because she didn’t want to hurt this kid’s feelings, so she took it all on, right? I have a problem with that. The teacher openly admitted I used hurt because I couldn’t. He’s too much. That’s the problem. This is a problem. So you see what I mean?
01;15;45;25 – 01;16;06;04
Speaker 2
Like it’s because the teacher can’t manage all things happening at all times. So that’s where it becomes, tricky for me because it’s like, I’m not I’m not a teacher. I’m not. I mean, Kelly up the street is a teacher. She sees the ins and outs. She sees the dynamics in the school. She’s a part of the big meetings.
01;16;06;04 – 01;16;30;22
Speaker 2
She’s a part of the planning. She’s a part of all the things. Right? So she comes at it from a very different perspective, coming from a parent who or I’m just a parent who of course wants the best from my kid, just like everybody else’s, but I don’t. That doesn’t mean I want to exclude other kids. It just means somehow we need to find a way that and it might be offensive to people, but sometimes it has to.
01;16;30;22 – 01;16;52;02
Speaker 2
I mean, maybe, maybe we need to not be offended and just be like, this is the way that the, kids are going to be grouped for success. Why can’t we? I mean, that’s a flowery way of saying it. But why does it have to be? Well, your kid has all these struggles, so we’re going to stick them in this type of classroom.
01;16;52;02 – 01;17;05;10
Speaker 2
Why can’t it be? Well, this is where your kid thrives. How is it any different? There’s the learning the same thing. They’re still getting the same social experiences. They’re still having the the specials and everything. It’s not like they are.
01;17;05;12 – 01;17;06;24
Speaker 1
What’s the cutoff for that?
01;17;06;24 – 01;17;07;23
Speaker 2
That’s the question.
01;17;08;00 – 01;17;09;03
Speaker 1
You know, so like the.
01;17;09;10 – 01;17;19;06
Speaker 2
The question, if we get to a point where it’s like, okay, you can’t maintain these standards, that’s my point. But where is the cutoff, the stability.
01;17;19;08 – 01;17;40;18
Speaker 1
That civility standards. Is it how he does on his maps test. Is it you know, so like we’re not clear on what those standards are. But that kid’s got phenomenal emotional communication skills. Better than every single other kid that I have seen in that age group. Right. Does that make the cut off or do we not care about that because his math score isn’t where it’s supposed to be.
01;17;40;18 – 01;17;51;15
Speaker 2
But but that’s the goal I don’t see. And that’s a whole different when you’re talking emotional intelligence and like, just behavioral issues versus academics. Those are two very different things.
01;17;51;17 – 01;18;07;19
Speaker 1
But they’re all combined in the same kid who’s in that classroom who hears that teacher say, we got some non-negotiables here. Yeah. So my kid might be the brightest math kid you’ve ever met in your life, but he’s not keeping his hands to himself, is he welcome there or not? Or my kid keeps his hands to himself.
01;18;07;19 – 01;18;27;27
Speaker 1
But he is. His reading level is behind. Right. Is he welcome there or not. Who, who who are we allowing in these classroom environments. Who’s setting that standard. Who’s saying that it’s okay. And then what’s the cutoff for that. Right. And I think those extremes of these kids over here versus these kids over here, they’re the easy ones to figure out.
01;18;27;27 – 01;18;28;23
Speaker 1
So the end of the day.
01;18;28;23 – 01;18;44;14
Speaker 2
So then here’s my question to you. So if let’s say our kids I mean our kids get along great. But let’s say that your kid is next to my kid and constantly distracting my kid. Is it offensive? If I go on to the teacher and say, I don’t want his her kid near mine because he can’t keep his hands to himself?
01;18;44;14 – 01;18;45;23
Speaker 2
No. Okay.
01;18;45;25 – 01;18;46;07
Speaker 1
Not at.
01;18;46;07 – 01;18;46;27
Speaker 2
All great.
01;18;46;27 – 01;19;10;05
Speaker 1
Totally fine with that. And what I would have hoped would happen was that I had some awareness of the fact that my kid is the one who’s distracting in class, and then I’m working behind the scenes with the IEP, the 500 for whatever. Yeah, because I do have a great awareness that just because my kid might be struggling in some of these areas, doesn’t mean that that then needs to be impacting other kids at such a great level.
01;19;10;05 – 01;19;26;14
Speaker 1
Right? But I’m going to be working on saying, what are we putting in place? And just how are we helping this student be successful? I can tell you just a normal classroom environment, ain’t it for my kid? I seen it, Kelly up the streets tutoring Carter this summer. He’s thriving because it’s one on one.
01;19;26;14 – 01;19;29;09
Speaker 2
Yes, that’s probably interesting. She just.
01;19;29;11 – 01;19;40;04
Speaker 1
She says we’re going to work for 15 minutes, then you get five minutes off. He watches that timer like it is, you know, whatever. Ready to go, right. Don’t. Will we be able to replicate that?
01;19;40;04 – 01;19;58;06
Speaker 2
Never, never. I want to be clear. Don’t. I’m not painting a picture that my kid is this perfect angel, stellar child who doesn’t get into trouble. Do all the things, please. Right. Do not hear that. She is as feisty as they come, right? Can she follow standard, simple standard instruction?
01;19;58;10 – 01;20;05;29
Speaker 1
Is she going to pass for social norms? Absolutely correct. And so. But they don’t let me. There’s a benefit I’m trying right.
01;20;05;29 – 01;20;37;00
Speaker 2
I don’t want people to think, oh, you know here she is. All I’m saying is that, again, just a bit of civility is so important to me because I just see grown adults who can’t function either by choice. And that’s where I often think it is. It’s just rudeness, entitlement. That’s the core, in my opinion, that needs support and help people who just physically, you know, that’s just that’s different.
01;20;37;05 – 01;20;40;06
Speaker 2
What’s different? You know, so anyway.
01;20;40;08 – 01;21;02;25
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think it’s a really interesting topic. I think it’s I’d love to hear other people weigh in on it. I’m sure a lot of people have a lot of thoughts about this entire conversation and their opinions and their thoughts on it. And, toward the end of this conversation, I think it’s interesting that, like usual, we we get to the same core, the same base.
01;21;02;25 – 01;21;24;02
Speaker 1
You know, we’re really not always that far off, but our approaches to how we approach that topic and then how we get there without an 80 minute conversation right about what that looks like, which know nobody having. Right. There’s people are not having these conversations on social media. They’re not having their conversations with their neighbor. They’re not sitting down and having these conversations right.
01;21;24;03 – 01;21;48;24
Speaker 1
Getting even closer to that, to that central point, you know, you and I are not equally aligned and making it to the middle, but we are a whole lot closer to that middle point than it would appear. Just by a response on Facebook, just by just general, you know, perceptions of who people are. Right? And I think that’s the greater issue at play here is right.
01;21;48;26 – 01;22;13;19
Speaker 1
No one has the time or energy right now to sit down and have these types of conversations. And to see that last question you asked, so would it be okay if your kid was just annoying the shit out of my kid? No it wouldn’t. And if I said, yeah, I think my kid should be able to impact your kid as much as possible and I don’t really care what happens to your kid, then we’re a lot further off than than we think we are, right?
01;22;13;19 – 01;22;15;27
Speaker 1
Just like my kid. Important conversation.
01;22;15;27 – 01;22;27;02
Speaker 2
Just like my kid can’t be the nasty talking behind your back, distracting you by, you know, being sneaky like any of that, that none of that is acceptable. Right?
01;22;27;05 – 01;22;35;26
Speaker 1
But at the end of the day, your question was, is that okay? And my response is absolutely not. And I’m going to try and figure out how I can manage that behind the scenes.
01;22;36;01 – 01;22;57;07
Speaker 2
Just like if my daughter had come to me and said, mom. Again, she’s she was in third grade and she doesn’t want to offend anybody or whatever. If she was able to come to me and say, hey, I have to sit next to whoever because, he doesn’t have any friends and I’m nice to him, but he’s constantly touching me, or he’s distracting me when I’m trying to do my reading.
01;22;57;07 – 01;23;11;27
Speaker 2
And now I can’t go to to, recess because I didn’t get my reading done. If she had just come to me to talk about that, I would have then said to her, let me give you some strategies on how to work together, or you. I’m not saying to kick him out.
01;23;11;28 – 01;23;13;12
Speaker 1
You would have talked to the teacher.
01;23;13;12 – 01;23;15;09
Speaker 2
Yes. And said, let’s talk about this.
01;23;15;11 – 01;23;33;05
Speaker 1
Is what I think. What people might be a little surprised to hear is that your conversation with the teacher sounds like this. Hey, I’m really aware that everyone has different learning styles and that some kids, you know over here may need different things. And I want to make sure that that kid gets what that kid needs. And that Sawyer’s also getting what she needs.
01;23;33;12 – 01;23;38;11
Speaker 1
And I’m feeling like she may be a bit of a sacrificial lamb right now. As someone who’s going to be more going with the.
01;23;38;11 – 01;23;51;29
Speaker 2
Flow, I might not even understand me. I might have been more generic and come to her, come to the teacher and say, hey, I just had an interesting conversation with Sawyer. Can you tell me? Let me tell you what she said to me. Can you tell me a little more about the classroom dynamic? And then she would have said what she said.
01;23;51;29 – 01;24;03;08
Speaker 2
Oh, right. He’s just he struggles. He doesn’t get along. She’s so good to him. And then I would say, you know what? That’s great. However, this is the consequence of that. What can we do together to make this work?
01;24;03;08 – 01;24;11;03
Speaker 1
This that’s what I want people to comment on. I want people to comment on. Do you believe that that is how you would have expected Rebecca to handle.
01;24;11;08 – 01;24;11;18
Speaker 2
Probable.
01;24;11;20 – 01;24;30;16
Speaker 1
Nation based on how that started? Probably not done brings me full circle to the beginning of the conversation was it’s important for you to be transparent in what you say and what you do, but what you say is, I got these non-negotiables, and then this kid belongs over here and this kid belongs over there. That’s how it comes out.
01;24;30;16 – 01;24;45;29
Speaker 1
But I know that’s not who you are in practice. And so the question then becomes, which one’s the truth, right. It is. Isn’t that when you’re going to have these conversations with the teacher that you’re backing down because you want to be like, I don’t really know. I want to be able to come.
01;24;45;29 – 01;24;48;02
Speaker 2
Back and say, I think I’m getting information.
01;24;48;02 – 01;25;05;13
Speaker 1
When like how you’re how you are. And if that is genuinely how you are, how come that’s not coming across in the very beginning, when we’re having this conversation about how you feel about things, it’s like you hedge your bets a little bit more when it comes to the actual conversation with the teacher, which I am all aligned with.
01;25;05;13 – 01;25;10;09
Speaker 1
I think that’s the that’s beautiful and that’s who I know you to be. But I, I’m curious and I think it’s.
01;25;10;09 – 01;25;10;23
Speaker 2
Touching, but.
01;25;10;29 – 01;25;23;19
Speaker 1
I would love the listeners to weigh in on. Would you have thought that would have been her approach if you didn’t know? Rebecca, based on how the session started? That’s what feels incongruent to me.
01;25;23;21 – 01;25;32;03
Speaker 2
See, now I disagree because I don’t I don’t think it’s hedging bets. I still stand by the non-negotiables. I still stand by all of those things.
01;25;32;05 – 01;25;56;09
Speaker 1
But but your approach, you feel like how you’ve identified the, the you think. You think that based on what you said initially, that’s what people would think your approach would be with that teacher, that they wouldn’t think that you would come in and say, my child is getting impacted every single day in class by this other child who seems to have a problem.
01;25;56;12 – 01;26;01;00
Speaker 1
And I’m fine that that child has a problem, but my kid’s not going to be impacted by it.
01;26;01;02 – 01;26;28;15
Speaker 2
But I don’t think that her video is indicative of my approach. It’s indicative of my standards. I still feel that way about the standards. What I have. Reasonable conversations and try to see all points of view. Yes, but at the end of the day, I still stand by those standards. So somehow we need to get to a point where we can all.
01;26;28;18 – 01;26;34;00
Speaker 2
Either work with those standards or something different has to happen. Does that make sense?
01;26;34;00 – 01;26;55;20
Speaker 1
Yes. And so the reasonable approach that I see you taking in the classroom in that scenario with Sawyer, if that also came out initially in some of the words that you use to describe the situation at hand and how you felt about it, I would feel that would be more congruent. This could also be one of those things I go back and I rewatch and I’m like, oh, she’s been saying that all along.
01;26;55;20 – 01;26;57;18
Speaker 1
But the feeling I have in the moment.
01;26;57;24 – 01;26;58;17
Speaker 2
This is the lens.
01;26;58;18 – 01;27;10;22
Speaker 1
You’ll come in hot. Yeah. These real strong feelings and opinions. And I don’t want these things to happen and get your gender neutral bathrooms out of here. I do not like that. And I do not like these gendered housings, and I do not like that.
01;27;10;22 – 01;27;11;20
Speaker 2
This kid and I don’t.
01;27;11;26 – 01;27;30;09
Speaker 1
So you have these really strong words, opinions and feelings. And yet you walked into that classroom and you said, could you help me understand this situation a little bit? And how this is so if you’re approaching the beginning with your words mirrored, what your genuine approach is, and I know you to be the person who walks in, then I think it would be easier for me to hear.
01;27;30;09 – 01;27;53;22
Speaker 1
But me being who I am through my lens and through my black and white, I only hear your stark words, and then your stark words paint a picture of who you are. That to me, is not congruent with who this person is. And I think that stems from this fearful place of if you don’t come out loud and proud about how you feel about these things, you worry you’re going to be incongruent.
01;27;53;24 – 01;28;13;00
Speaker 1
And I feel like if you come across as, hey, you know, I still have these standards, but I’d like to use some words that are along the lines of, I’d like to figure out how we can both win in this situation or how we can right then, then that would feel more congruent to me. I think that’s just what I’m reacting to, is that.
01;28;13;01 – 01;28;13;19
Speaker 2
Yeah, maybe.
01;28;13;19 – 01;28;25;24
Speaker 1
The starkness of language. Again, I’m linguistic and and will take people at face value versus the approach. And I see them in the this and yeah.
01;28;26;02 – 01;28;36;19
Speaker 2
I see them one in the same I this is my standard. This is how I feel about it at the end of the day and how we get there, maybe right different. But at the end of the day this is what I stand for.
01;28;36;19 – 01;28;57;20
Speaker 1
And that’s what I would love to hear other people from. Again. They’re lenses are they? Am I is this me having my own sensitive lens on it? And like just putting too much weight on the words and the tone that you use versus me approach? Or is it that people are like, oh, I actually am really surprised that she would respond from that standpoint.
01;28;57;20 – 01;29;18;15
Speaker 1
I’m curious what that is, especially if you’re saying that that congruency is important to you. Right? I think the opposite would be true for me if I was like, hey, we should all get along and this and that and the other thing. And then I’m like, get your kid out of here. He’s a pain in the ass. They’d be like, okay, I we’re just seemed like she really kind of like, loved.
01;29;18;15 – 01;29;26;10
Speaker 1
Everyone was on everyone’s page. But she has a real strong opinion about such and such. Right. So there’s that congruency, but just in a very different.
01;29;26;13 – 01;29;46;06
Speaker 2
I think I think that’s an extreme example because I don’t believe that I’ve, I have very strong opinions about certain things, but I don’t think that they’re brash in that way. I don’t I don’t think using the word non-negotiable means get your kid there, pain in the ass, kid out. I don’t I don’t think that’s what that means.
01;29;46;06 – 01;30;07;07
Speaker 2
I think again, it’s just. Yeah, I was just saying, I know, I know, like, I totally get that, but, I think that’s where again, I think that that’s where sometimes in our society we become too divided into muddy because it just you can’t be all things, you know, how does that work?
01;30;07;07 – 01;30;12;19
Speaker 1
Can’t be all things. But yeah, in your approach in that classroom, you were all things.
01;30;12;22 – 01;30;18;04
Speaker 2
No, I was coming in to get as much information as possible. And then when you have the information, you have to make a decision.
01;30;18;05 – 01;30;20;08
Speaker 1
Sure. I do exactly the same thing.
01;30;20;08 – 01;30;21;13
Speaker 2
But at the end of the day.
01;30;21;13 – 01;30;25;25
Speaker 1
Broaching it from all things, you didn’t come in on your broomstick nest off.
01;30;25;28 – 01;30;33;25
Speaker 2
No, no no no, and I wouldn’t I would never do that anyway. But I don’t I don’t think that that’s what I was portraying either. Right. I just think, yeah.
01;30;33;25 – 01;30;53;11
Speaker 1
And that’s what I’m asking listeners to tell us. I’m curious. Yeah. If, if, if your perception is closer to what people think or if my sensitivity to the fact that I don’t think those things are congruent. I know how you feel about it. I know you think you’re saying the same thing and you’re acting out and I’m seeing them as separate.
01;30;53;16 – 01;31;07;25
Speaker 1
I’m seeing them as you’re coming in real hot with how you feel and your opinions about certain things, but then when you’re actually approaching it, it’s much more mild and caring and supportive and inquisitive and curious and loving and all of those things.
01;31;07;25 – 01;31;13;16
Speaker 2
But at the end of the day, it will filter down, sure, to that opinion and to that standard.
01;31;13;16 – 01;31;18;03
Speaker 1
And the reality is so will mine. Absolutely. So will mine.
01;31;18;03 – 01;31;49;19
Speaker 2
And again, it there really at the end of the day, I think if if our society looked at those differences, there really wouldn’t be a lot of differences. I think that there’s a way to to figure it all out in some capacity. But because you’ve used the word marginalized and people who’ve been hurt in the past, it will never work because what’s the alternative?
01;31;49;21 – 01;32;08;13
Speaker 2
I again, I keep going back because of the Olympics. They’re so hot and and and sports is so hot. There’s a hot topic coming into school this year. Like all of that, I keep referring to, to those kinds of things. And at what point do you just shut it all down and say, fine, then nobody can play sports because somebody might be hurt.
01;32;08;13 – 01;32;13;27
Speaker 2
One person, six people, 12 people. Well, you know, like, what do you do.
01;32;13;27 – 01;32;32;17
Speaker 1
That the fear. Right? Isn’t that the fear? The fear at the end of the day is that if we don’t come in with an incredibly strong opinion of exactly how we feel and make sure that we are known for what we believe in, that the only other alternative is that now nobody gets anything, and now we’re in the complete opposite end, right?
01;32;32;17 – 01;32;35;25
Speaker 1
And I don’t live in that space. So I don’t think it’s fear.
01;32;35;25 – 01;32;37;02
Speaker 2
I think it’s.
01;32;37;04 – 01;32;59;01
Speaker 1
I believe that it’s fine to have these types of conversations and to not have to have an incredibly strong opinion about where we come from on these things, and to know that through the process of curiosity and working it out, that maybe we can come to a solution that’s going to work for the most number of kids. But I don’t believe that’s how most people approach these conversations.
01;32;59;03 – 01;33;33;19
Speaker 1
Instead, everyone’s coming from a place of incredible certainty, incredible stoic ness of of how they feel about certain things, not being able to check their past baggage, of why they feel that particular way in a clear like my way or the highway. This is where we’re at. And because we’re not able to live with the ambiguity of can we sit with it for a little while and figure it out, then it’s automatically assumed that my way of processing or working through some of these things are going to mean that we will never come to a resolution.
01;33;33;19 – 01;33;52;26
Speaker 1
No one will ever decide anything. Everyone you know, it’s just these extremes all of the time. And we’re not able to spend time in that middle ground of being like, yeah, this is complicated. This is hard. This is interesting. Right? There’s been a couple times, even on this podcast, that there’s been statements toward me that are like, what do you want to do to sit around and talk about it all the time?
01;33;52;26 – 01;34;09;28
Speaker 1
No, I don’t, but I don’t think any of us are sitting around and talking about it for long enough, or just us sticking our stake in the sand, saying, this is how I feel about it. And if you can’t get on this camp, I’m sorry for you. Let you just think differently. I guess I just guess we’ll agree to disagree.
01;34;10;01 – 01;34;24;23
Speaker 1
It’s really hard to be in that middle ground of people that’s like, maybe I don’t want to agree to disagree. Maybe I don’t even want one of us to agree or to agree, but maybe I do want to sit with it for a minute and have a conversation and figure out where our common ground is and where it’s coming from.
01;34;24;23 – 01;34;46;23
Speaker 1
Does that take longer shit. Yeah. Is it harder apps. Fucking lutely. It’s really fucking hard and it’s exhausting right. It’s a whole lot easier to stick that flag in the cement or the sand and to say, man, this is how I feel about it at the end of the day. But I don’t think that’s how most people are in the real world.
01;34;46;23 – 01;35;07;24
Speaker 1
It’s just who they present themselves are with certain topics, because it’s easier and because it sometimes it feels like life or death, right? Sometimes it feels like I got to be so fricking clear on how I feel about this. It’s like those memes that go around that’s like, you know, screw me over wants shame on me, screw me over twice.
01;35;07;24 – 01;35;23;00
Speaker 1
Shame on you. I ain’t coming back a third time. Listen, listen, we don’t need to be so definitive about not coming back a third time, because life really isn’t that easy. Most people are coming back a third time. And you know what? Maybe we can lean into that and say, I guess I don’t always know what’s in someone’s marriage.
01;35;23;02 – 01;35;48;22
Speaker 1
I guess I don’t always know how I would react in a situation I’ve never experienced before. Right? People don’t want to sit in that space. It’s incredibly uncomfortable. So instead, we put out our memes that say, you do this to me. Here’s what my reaction is. Well, I’d love to do a research study on that, because nine times out of ten, I’m going to put you in a scenario where you said that one thing that you would never possibly do, you’re going to do, and you still ain’t going to do it, because that’s not life.
01;35;48;28 – 01;36;17;22
Speaker 1
So let’s stop lying to ourselves about the fact that we all have these real, clear opinions on everything that’s going to happen when this happens to me in this life and this is what’s going to happen, that that’s exactly where we’re going to go. I just want us to be a little more comfortable with the ambiguity. If I don’t really have an answer for this yet, and I’m willing to figure it out and play around with it, but just because I don’t have that definitive answer does not mean that I’m, you know, just want to sit around for years and years and years and keep trying to figure it out.
01;36;17;24 – 01;36;19;02
Speaker 1
You know.
01;36;19;04 – 01;36;26;23
Speaker 2
Yeah. It just gets tough with I think a lot of it is American society too frankly. Right then you know.
01;36;26;27 – 01;36;31;12
Speaker 1
Oh my God this is hilarious. This affirmation card I just pulled and our session.
01;36;31;14 – 01;36;32;26
Speaker 2
Is in a canoe. Nope.
01;36;32;27 – 01;36;36;14
Speaker 1
It’s a hand a hand holding a sign. It’s this could not be.
01;36;36;17 – 01;36;37;17
Speaker 2
The perfect.
01;36;37;17 – 01;36;49;12
Speaker 1
Affirmation cards in this session. I know that I am the only one who determines what is and is not right for me. That’s right, I am the final say. That’s right.
01;36;49;14 – 01;36;53;02
Speaker 2
That’s right, that’s right, I loved that.
01;36;53;06 – 01;36;55;27
Speaker 1
Me too. Is an empathy. Amazing.
01;36;55;27 – 01;36;59;15
Speaker 2
Well we’re amazing. I don’t know about all that sympathy stuff.
01;36;59;21 – 01;37;05;26
Speaker 1
That’s fine. I accept you wherever you are. Oh, God, I love you.
01;37;05;28 – 01;37;07;09
Speaker 2
I love you too.
01;37;07;11 – 01;37;15;11
Speaker 1
And if you love us, please like and subscribe to more. Love the power of empathy podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
01;37;15;19 – 01;37;27;23
Speaker 2
See you next time.