Erin [00:00:19]: I think this one’s gonna be a good one. This episode or this session here?
Rebecca [00:00:24]: This tarot card.
Erin [00:00:25]: Total session here. Well, how come?
Scott [00:00:26]: Can I already jump in? Yeah, they’re all a good one.
Erin [00:00:30]: Thank you, Scott. Thank you, Scott. Yeah, I know. Yeah.
Rebecca [00:00:33]: Is there 3,000? 3,000?
Erin [00:00:35]: Is there ever one that I start with? Well, this session’s gonna suck.
Scott [00:00:38]: Yeah.
Erin [00:00:38]: So. Yeah. You did last time. I did.
Rebecca [00:00:40]: Well, this one’s gonna be a doozy.
Erin [00:00:42]: But what happened over there? What happened over there? Because I. I saw that something flew out.
Rebecca [00:00:46]: No, it didn’t fly. Fly out. I picked it and then I’m like, nope, I’m not feeling that one.
Erin [00:00:50]: Oh, really?
Rebecca [00:00:50]: I put it back, and then I realized that we were. Well, because we decided we’re gonna pull it live. And I pre. Pulled it and I’m like, nope, that wasn’t it. No, I said that we. I was going back on what we decided.
Erin [00:01:01]: Oh, yeah.
Rebecca [00:01:01]: So now I’m gonna pull it when it’s live.
Erin [00:01:03]: I see.
Rebecca [00:01:03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Scott [00:01:04]: That’s what she said.
Erin [00:01:05]: I see. I can’t.
Rebecca [00:01:07]: So I’m gonna wait to pull it. Go ahead. Do you. You start us off. Start us off.
Erin [00:01:13]: Today we’re gonna be talking about friendships. Navigating adult friendships.
Rebecca [00:01:18]: We’re not adults.
Erin [00:01:19]: I think this is gonna be a little multilayer cake here because I don’t think on the surface, I’ve not thought too much about this, that you and I have the same concept of friendship.
Rebecca [00:01:34]: Level of friendship.
Erin [00:01:35]: Not at all. Expectations around friendship. I think pretty true to how we live the rest of our lives. We have some very different, unique sort of thoughts about friendship. And otherwise. I think this one’s gonna be. This one’s gonna be interesting.
Rebecca [00:01:50]: Absolutely. Yeah.
Erin [00:01:51]: So. So hit us with some hippie voo. And then I’m gonna hit you with this question after you pull the hippie view. Vu. What is friendship?
Rebecca [00:01:59]: Oh, so you’re gonna make me decide it.
Erin [00:02:02]: What is friendship? So you’ll be thinking about that.
Rebecca [00:02:04]: This is our card.
Erin [00:02:05]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:02:05]: Achievement.
Erin [00:02:06]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:02:07]: Have we done this one? Eight of pentacles. Eight of pentacles with the turtle. I feel like we’ve done this one. I feel like I’ve mentioned a turtle before.
Scott [00:02:14]: I feel like everyone you do is some sort of pentacle.
Rebecca [00:02:17]: A pentacle. That’s money. It’s money, right? Like coins.
Erin [00:02:20]: That’s right.
Scott [00:02:21]: I always think of an octopus, but I know that’s wrong. It’s just because it rhymes with tentacle.
Rebecca [00:02:28]: Eight of pentacles. This eight shows achievement in Your profession or field of study. It is the card of perfectionist. That’s Aaron for sure. Who knows that small details can be important. You take pride in your work and set high standards. This attitude now pays off. Your finances improve as a result of hard work and commitment to succeed. An additional meaning is exam success, a return to education. As you decide to deepen your expertise, you have ability to earn more and learn more. Wherever you focus your energy, success will follow. That is probably the only part that makes sense. Then again, some people pay for friends. Okay, so you know they do.
Erin [00:03:14]: Yeah. Who pays for friends? What does that mean?
Scott [00:03:17]: One of them’s the president, but we’ll move on from there.
Erin [00:03:21]: What do you mean pays for friends?
Rebecca [00:03:22]: I think people pay to have friends.
Scott [00:03:24]: Oh, sure.
Erin [00:03:24]: What do you mean? Like, they’re like, hi there.
Rebecca [00:03:27]: No, I don’t, like, write a check like, hi, I will pay you $100 to be my friend. No, I think people pay. I mean the kinds. Like.
Scott [00:03:38]: It’S like they shower them with gifts. They do all kinds of stuff for.
Rebecca [00:03:41]: Them people don’t really like. Yeah, okay, okay.
Erin [00:03:44]: Sorry. I went a little black and white there.
Rebecca [00:03:46]: Thinking of a writing of that social media, you want to appear to be popular, so you pay to have followers or things like that.
Erin [00:03:53]: Okay. Yeah, okay. Okay. Which really brings me to my first question. What is friendship? Because in my mind, that’s great. You know what?
Rebecca [00:04:01]: This card is actually really great.
Erin [00:04:03]: Launched us right off.
Rebecca [00:04:03]: This is a really great achievement. How.
Erin [00:04:07]: How do you get more friends that are all so fake?
Rebecca [00:04:10]: Are you a high achiever in the friendship realm?
Erin [00:04:12]: Right.
Rebecca [00:04:13]: My answer is no. No. Erin is a high achiever. I am a low achiever.
Erin [00:04:21]: I do feel like a high achiever in the friendship realm. I really do. Scott, are you a high achiever in the friendship realm?
Scott [00:04:28]: Not as high as you, I would think.
Erin [00:04:30]: Okay. But higher than Rebecca.
Scott [00:04:32]: But I think I’m a. I think I’m a pretty good friend. I don’t have any for you to ask.
Rebecca [00:04:37]: No, I’m a great friend. I’m not a friend collector.
Erin [00:04:42]: She’s not high achieving in the friend area. When you think about friendships, you’re not like, oh, that’s totally Rebecca. Rebecca just reels them in.
Rebecca [00:04:49]: Right. I’m not a friend collector.
Scott [00:04:51]: I think you’d have to go back and perfectly define a friend.
Erin [00:04:57]: Well, that’s great because that’s what we’re doing right here. So what is a friend? Has your definition of friend changed over the years? Like, what is a friend to you?
Rebecca [00:05:07]: I think there’s multiple definitions of friend.
Erin [00:05:10]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:05:10]: So I am. I’m a multi layered friend.
Erin [00:05:14]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:05:15]: I am a different person with different people.
Erin [00:05:18]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:05:19]: So my, my idea of a friend with one person is drastically different with a different person. My friendship with you is very different with my friendship with my soccer mom friends is different with my high school friends is different than when my college friends is different with my next door neighbor friend. Like, I have different levels of friendship and different depths of friendship and different levels. I don’t know if level and depth is the same, but I don’t know what other word to use.
Scott [00:05:53]: Degrees.
Rebecca [00:05:53]: Degree. Yes. Yes. I show different variations of my personality, of my vulnerability. I am a very different person around different people. Where I don’t think you are pretty drastic.
Erin [00:06:08]: You’re saying those levels are pretty drastic?
Rebecca [00:06:10]: I would say people know the essence of me.
Erin [00:06:13]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:06:14]: But don’t know my depth or even a whole lot about me. Depending on who you are to me.
Erin [00:06:20]: And is there a common denominator within each of those friend circles that you just described? Like, if we think about what is friendship, what is at the core of all of those connections? Both the people that are.
Rebecca [00:06:35]: What would classify you in that. To be put in that group, either.
Erin [00:06:38]: A college person or me or like what Different.
Rebecca [00:06:43]: What would put you in a friend category?
Erin [00:06:45]: What would get you into any one.
Rebecca [00:06:47]: Of those groups versus just an acquaintance or somebody on the street? Um, I can. I like being around you and I would be around you for a second time.
Erin [00:06:57]: Okay. That’s it. That’s those only qualifications.
Scott [00:07:01]: Like. Like a favorite restaurant.
Rebecca [00:07:03]: I like.
Erin [00:07:03]: That was pretty good. I’ll do it again. I. I think I’ll do it a second time.
Rebecca [00:07:07]: That would be the first. First thing.
Erin [00:07:10]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:07:10]: And then the second thing would be you have something interesting to say.
Erin [00:07:15]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:07:16]: And I like talking to you.
Erin [00:07:17]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:07:18]: And then the third would be you’re fun to be around and I’m not bored.
Erin [00:07:23]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:07:26]: And then she’s honest.
Erin [00:07:28]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:07:28]: And then the four.
Erin [00:07:29]: Do you have to have connection in any way with this person or are those all examples of connection?
Rebecca [00:07:34]: Well, well, that.
Erin [00:07:36]: Well, you.
Rebecca [00:07:37]: That’s why I don’t have a lot of friends. Because usually when I’m bored, when we’re not connected.
Erin [00:07:43]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:07:43]: So that, that usually tapers off real quick.
Erin [00:07:47]: So yeah.
Rebecca [00:07:48]: Board. Board and connection are kind of the same thing.
Erin [00:07:50]: Right. And so you have a twin flame.
Rebecca [00:07:52]: Oh one.
Erin [00:07:53]: Right. One.
Rebecca [00:07:54]: Well, two. My husband. But that’s a different kind of twin flames. That’s like the 69.
Erin [00:07:58]: He’s a real dull Flame.
Rebecca [00:08:00]: He’s a real doll Flame. I love him.
Erin [00:08:04]: I’m in the same category as Philip. For real? Well, yeah.
Rebecca [00:08:08]: I mean, you’re my. You’re my soul mate, and he’s.
Erin [00:08:10]: Yes.
Rebecca [00:08:11]: I mean, he’s my husband, and you’re my women husband. My woman twin flame.
Erin [00:08:19]: I don’t like being in the same category as Philip.
Rebecca [00:08:21]: You want to be an elevated version.
Erin [00:08:23]: I’m just very different from Philip in a lot of different ways.
Rebecca [00:08:27]: I would agree.
Erin [00:08:28]: Thinking that I’m in the same circle as Philip. When I think about what we talk about, the depth of what we talk about, our future plans, the goals, where we’re going, where we’re going for our 50th birthday, like that is true.
Rebecca [00:08:41]: We are going on a romantic vacation, you and me.
Erin [00:08:44]: In my mind. Then I think about Philip, and I think about him just sitting outside having a beer and a cigarette in the driveway. And I’m like, there’s something just not the same about that. The emotional connectivity, the emotional capacity, the. You know, as we talked about in a past session, how I wrote you all those notes when I was going on a cruise, and Philip’s like, it’s Mother’s Day. I just. Something about that. Sorry. Just doesn’t sit right.
Rebecca [00:09:13]: Okay. What’s a friend to you?
Scott [00:09:16]: But if you think about it, if you think about it, it makes sense, because. How long have you been married, Rebecca?
Rebecca [00:09:22]: 17 years.
Scott [00:09:22]: 17 years. How long have you guys been friends?
Rebecca [00:09:25]: 20 years.
Scott [00:09:26]: 20 years.
Rebecca [00:09:27]: Well, I bet me and Philip and Aaron all met at the same time.
Scott [00:09:29]: Okay, so you’ve all your relationship has gone through the years, and therefore, because you change, the relationship changes at the same time. So it makes sense that you would be kind of at the same level, because imagine you now suddenly reconnecting with someone that you were friends with when you were 12, and then trying to, like, navigate how you would connect with them now as opposed to when you were 12.
Rebecca [00:09:56]: Right. For sure.
Scott [00:09:57]: So, like the. The. Or what’s the word I’m looking for, the evolution of your relationships. Were. Were Right. Right in line. Right next to each other.
Erin [00:10:06]: That’s right.
Scott [00:10:06]: And there’s not really. Would be at that same level.
Rebecca [00:10:11]: That’s right.
Scott [00:10:11]: Right.
Erin [00:10:12]: Fair. Yes. I think that my answer to what is friendship? Will further define why Philip and I can’t be in the same twin flame category. I just think we think maybe about friendship a little differently. So when I think about friendship, I have very deep relationships with a lot of people.
Rebecca [00:10:35]: Yes.
Erin [00:10:36]: And I have very few superficial relationships. And I would Say that those people get the same version of me, but at a very different depth. But it’s still the same version of me. Regardless of if I just met you on a bus or if you’re my twin flame, I would agree.
Rebecca [00:11:00]: And I know that because I have worked with you, I’ve seen you in a professional environment. I have seen you in public. I mean, I’ve seen all the gamuts. But you’ve also seen me in all the gamuts, so. And you’ve seen me be a different version of myself.
Erin [00:11:14]: Very much so.
Rebecca [00:11:15]: In all the gamuts.
Erin [00:11:16]: Very much so. And. And you and I have talked before that it’s difficult because I sometimes can see the version of yourself that you’re putting out to someone else. And you’ll say to me, like, what is going on there? Like, okay, I’ve actually had to stop myself from saying things out loud. And then when we get in the be like, how come you acted like this? And then you’ll explain it and I’ll be like, okay, that makes perfect sense.
Rebecca [00:11:40]: Exactly. Right, Exactly.
Erin [00:11:41]: But when I think about sort of friendship or what is friendship to me, connection is the very first word that comes to mind. And I don’t just mean connection like you’re interesting to me, or I can engage with you in some type of conversation. There is something about that connection that I feel massively drawn to. And it’s almost like two magnets that come together. Right.
Rebecca [00:12:09]: It’s a physical feeling. It’s like it’s a energetic, empathic, physical feeling immediately. And I feel those things too, which is why I’m in the presence of someone. I can immediately tell whether or not I’m going to engage initially. That’s my initial.
Erin [00:12:33]: Like, if you’re even gonna say hello.
Rebecca [00:12:35]: Or what type of hello, I’m gonna say.
Erin [00:12:38]: Because you automatically feel like there could be a connection there.
Rebecca [00:12:41]: Yes. I’ve decided if I’m gonna even interest.
Erin [00:12:44]: Give you a interesting.
Rebecca [00:12:46]: A certain kind of smile, and I.
Erin [00:12:48]: Do the opposite, which is I try to keep myself from engaging because I know myself well enough to know that I’m either gonna ask you a question or I’m gonna make you feel a certain way in this conversation that before you know it, we’re deep seated into your life trauma at a soccer game. And I didn’t really wanna go there.
Rebecca [00:13:11]: Right, right, right. Because you can’t be yourself.
Erin [00:13:14]: So for me, I actually find myself not trying to make those connections because it’s gonna be too much. It’s gonna be too much. Energy, for sure, for me. But the sort of. This baseline of friendship for me is associated with connection. And then I find that the deeper the friendship goes has much more to do with a natural give and take and trust that I feel in that friendship. It used to be the case that I was really guarded or I think maybe subconsciously didn’t share much about myself with other people and in expectation that they were going to ask the right types of questions that would then make me want to share more, for sure. That would then leave me highly disappointed. And in lopsided relationships, I would say through my 30s, that was happening because I would always wait and it would never come. And then I would become this person’s therapist.
Rebecca [00:14:20]: Yep.
Erin [00:14:22]: Instead of it being, I really want to get to know you a little bit more as a person. But I will never forget being in my master’s program with Dr. Mohi Shakur. Love that man. Love that man so much. When I say, like, just peace, presence here on Earth, like he’s. He’s of a different level.
Rebecca [00:14:44]: I love that.
Erin [00:14:45]: And I remember we used to do interpersonal relationships groups where the actual group was us all sitting around with no topic to talk about, and we would just bring things up and we would tend to each other in this group, and we get to the end of this group. So again, I must be in my early 20s at this point, going through my masters, and I get up the courage to finally say, oh, God, I want to die.
Rebecca [00:15:13]: Oh, God, I want to die. Oh, God, I want to die. What are you going to say to this group of people that you barely know?
Erin [00:15:18]: This is your last. We’re now. We’re now close to the end of the. The actual 15 week semester. So I know them incredibly well.
Rebecca [00:15:24]: Oh, I’m so uncomfortable.
Erin [00:15:25]: Right.
Rebecca [00:15:26]: I could never be in your program.
Erin [00:15:27]: And then Moohi’s sitting in on the group. It was a. It was a fishbowl style. So you have people that are behind the. The two way glass watching it, and you have people that are in your group hate it. And I remember saying, I’m so uncomfortable.
Rebecca [00:15:41]: I’m not getting there.
Erin [00:15:41]: Getting toward the end and thinking, I really got my. I got my courage up. I’m going to say something. And I. I basically said, I feel like I know people really well in this group, but that no one has really taken the opportunity to get to know me. And this is a theme that happens in my life considerably. And I. I don’t like how that feels. And now I feel sadness that we’re at the end of the semester and yet another time has gone by that I didn’t make genuine connections with people because people weren’t curious about me. I was real proud of that response. And Muhi in his, like, beautiful, he sits back, you know, he puts his hands on his freaking lap.
Rebecca [00:16:25]: What’d he say?
Erin [00:16:26]: He said, I wish I could remember exactly because he’s like present day Gandhi in my mind. He said something along the lines of. I find myself really annoyed by your statement.
Rebecca [00:16:42]: What?
Erin [00:16:43]: And I think it’s because you’ve had so many opportunities during this class to tell people who you were and instead you sat by passively waiting for them to find out. Like you’ve been testing us this whole time to see if we were worthy to know about you. And the reality is, we would love to know about you, but. But if you don’t take that first step to give us something to get to know, you will always be at a distance from other people.
Rebecca [00:17:18]: And what was your face like? Wait, did you wanna die? Did you want to die?
Erin [00:17:27]: I felt 2 inches tall.
Rebecca [00:17:32]: I would too. Because I would never, ever, ever offer something about myself without being asked. Because that’s in my mind, the rudest thing you could possibly do.
Erin [00:17:42]: Oh, interesting.
Rebecca [00:17:43]: You don’t, you don’t talk about yourself without being asked.
Scott [00:17:47]: I can’t believe no one here asked how cool I am.
Rebecca [00:17:51]: Oh no, like nobody. I don’t mean, I don’t mean that part.
Scott [00:17:55]: How cool are you, Scott? Just kidding. I’m taking, I just mean take an exaggerated.
Rebecca [00:18:00]: I would feel the same way you do because you don’t just offer things about your. That’s like, it would feel like one upping somebody if they’re talking about them and then you contribute. That would feel horrible.
Erin [00:18:11]: Here I was, here I was in this group making sure I was tending to everyone else.
Rebecca [00:18:16]: Absolutely.
Erin [00:18:17]: But what was happening, what he was pointing out was that that was by design. It was intentional. So essentially what he was saying to me was, you do such a masterful job making sure everyone else is taken care of to deflect people getting to know about you. And then have the audacity to sit here at the end of a semester and play victim that no one else got to know you when you’ve intentionally, subconsciously kept people at a distance this entire time.
Rebecca [00:18:48]: I don’t know.
Erin [00:18:48]: And I, I, I really, I can hear that. I can hear that because I don’t think deep down.
Rebecca [00:18:56]: Do you think that’s true?
Erin [00:18:57]: 100%.
Rebecca [00:18:58]: Okay, if you think that’s true.
Erin [00:19:01]: I subconsciously I think people do this a lot. I think in our friendships when we are not ready to expose who we truly are or we want to keep people sort of. It’s like a meter. We want to keep them like metered at a certain distance away from us. We do this subtly in these really masterful ways.
Rebecca [00:19:25]: Okay.
Erin [00:19:25]: Some examples would be, you’re phenomenal at this point. You are so good at this. You’re probably so good that you don’t even realize how good you are at it.
Rebecca [00:19:34]: I would agree with you.
Erin [00:19:35]: Right.
Rebecca [00:19:35]: In certain circumstances. Yes.
Erin [00:19:37]: Certain things. Like someone is asking you about yourself and you start to go down the rabbit hole a little bit and then you start to feel a little bit uncomfortable with where’s the rest of the questions going to come? This feels a little bit more like a therapy interrogation than it does real question. And all of a sudden you say, but how are your kids?
Rebecca [00:19:55]: 100%.
Erin [00:19:55]: How’s everything going for you? And you immediately switch.
Rebecca [00:19:58]: Yes.
Erin [00:19:59]: Because you’re like, I don’t love how this feels right now, but what do you say? Well, that’s just pleasant conversation. Yes. That’s just, you know, what you’re supposed to do.
Rebecca [00:20:07]: Right.
Erin [00:20:07]: But we don’t own that. We maybe did that intentionally because we were feeling uncomfortable because we didn’t want to get asked the real hard questions. Right. I’m thinking specifically about a friend I have in my life who feels like the relationship she has with one of her other friends is so lopsided that essentially all this person does all the time is therapy. Question her like, how, how’s this? How is what’s going on here? How about this? What’s the follow up with this? And it doesn’t feel equal. So my friend then goes to ask questions of this other person and they give just a little bit of information. But how my friend feels about that is like, this isn’t an equal friendship. This is actually you just wanting to be in the deets of what’s going on in my life all of the time. But you’re keeping yourself at such a distance. Right. Which really begs the question for me when it comes to friendship. So we would qualify those as friends. Right. Or friendships. But that there’s these different levels maybe of ways in which we allow people to get to see or to know us.
Rebecca [00:21:14]: I would agree. Yes, I would totally agree.
Erin [00:21:16]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:21:17]: But at the same time, you having that revelation because you internalized that and felt that way, I had a different reaction because I didn’t feel that way.
Erin [00:21:30]: You wouldn’t, you don’t because you aren’t connected with the fact that you would be doing that in group. Yeah, but you would.
Rebecca [00:21:38]: I don’t know if I would. I know you’re giving me that look, but I don’t know if I would.
Erin [00:21:43]: Zoom in on that.
Rebecca [00:21:44]: Scott, stop it right now. What? Your look. Yeah, zoom in on her look.
Erin [00:21:50]: Zoom in on that.
Rebecca [00:21:51]: I don’t know you.
Erin [00:21:53]: Let’s just play this one out a little bit. You’re in this. You’re in this group with your classmates, and there’s like, maybe 20 classmates. 10 of them are all sitting in a fishbowl. You’re being watched by other 10 other classmates behind a glass mirror that are literally sitting there with pieces of paper and pens writing down what they observed in the group. And the whole goal of this group is to sit in silence until someone feels the need to have to bring something up. Yeah. And when they do bring something up, someone else might say, oh, I noticed when you. It says, this is a here and now group. It’s not a. Let’s talk about the fact that you just brought up your barbecue from Saturday. Right. If you brought up your barbecue from Saturday, people would say, I’m just curious if you bringing up your barbecue from Saturday is because you really wanted to talk about that or you were looking for something from the group, or if you’re trying to avoid conversations about other things. And then everyone would stare at you, and they’d be like, I noticed you just got your eyebrow went up a little bit. Right. Like, it’s that level of, like, under a microscope.
Rebecca [00:22:54]: Yeah.
Erin [00:22:55]: You want to talk about uncomfortable, you would be like, guess what I’m doing. I don’t like uncomfortable silences. So you would bring something up, and someone would say, rebecca, how do you feel about uncomfortable silences? And you’d be like, I’m sorry, I got to go to the bathroom. So I really think in the presence of this here and now group.
Rebecca [00:23:14]: Yeah.
Erin [00:23:15]: If you’d probably never, at the end would have been like, I really wanted people to get to know me, because that’s the difference. You would be like, I actually am quite happy with people not getting to know me because I’m most comfortable there. Whereas I was longing for that connection of people seeing me. Right. Maybe that’s the difference.
Rebecca [00:23:33]: Maybe.
Erin [00:23:33]: Yeah, you’d be very fine and happy, you know, maybe sharing little bits and pieces, but you’d be throwing that out there for people just so that they got enough to satiate. Satiate them. And then you would be like, good. They’re not gonna ask anything else, but the minute someone was like, I wanna know more about that, I wanna know more about you.
Rebecca [00:23:52]: But I’m also very conscious of, in my relationships, I never want to feel like I’m one upping someone in a conversation. So like if you’re sharing something that is really exciting, like your business.
Erin [00:24:06]: Right.
Rebecca [00:24:07]: Something really great happen to you in your business today and you are sharing a moment and I’m so excited for you. I don’t want to use that opportunity to quote, unquote, relate or share something about me that could come off as a one upper or that could come off as something like. I’m very conscious of those kinds of things. So like it’s very. There’s a line.
Erin [00:24:29]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:24:30]: Where’s the line? And there’s a social nuance.
Erin [00:24:32]: Social give and take.
Rebecca [00:24:33]: Yeah. And that’s. People need to be really. Some people are very good at that and some people aren’t. There’s a way to have genuine, authentic conversations. And honestly, I would say a lot of people aren’t very good at that.
Erin [00:24:47]: Oh no, A lot of people aren’t.
Rebecca [00:24:49]: Very good at that.
Erin [00:24:49]: I don’t think so.
Rebecca [00:24:50]: And the people that are very good at that don’t ever talk about themselves, which is me and you, frankly.
Erin [00:24:55]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:24:55]: And therefore people don’t ever get to know us because they’re not savvy enough to recognize that the entire conversation was one way. And then they don’t sit there and think, okay, we just spent the last 16 minutes talking. I mean, think about, think about our morning conversations. I am very conscious of how long we’re talking about the one sided conversation. And I know you are too.
Erin [00:25:13]: Oh yeah.
Rebecca [00:25:13]: Because then immediately it’s like, oh, okay, let’s talk about what happened for your weekend.
Erin [00:25:17]: Ye. Yeah.
Rebecca [00:25:17]: It’s just, it’s a very conscious conversation constantly.
Erin [00:25:22]: What is that? That’s just an awareness, I guess, of like it’s savviness.
Rebecca [00:25:28]: It’s. And I don’t know if people have that type of.
Erin [00:25:31]: So I would agree with that. I would say after that Moohi situation and later on in my life, in my later 30s or my later 40s, I, for whatever reason, Kelly is coming up for me, specifically with Kelly. And we used to take these walks around. We still do, but not as much anymore. Walks around the neighborhood. I would force myself to share something about myself that I normally wouldn’t in an attempt to say I want to have a closer relationship with Kelly and it’s my responsibility to own that and to go There. Then we ended up having beautiful conversations about what that was like and. Right. And so I would say when we’re talking about adult friendships, the amount of energy that I put into my closest of close adult friendships is not of this earth.
Rebecca [00:26:23]: Agree.
Erin [00:26:24]: Because of those social niceties that you’re thinking about. Because I want to remember to check in with so and so. Because such and such is happening in their life.
Rebecca [00:26:32]: Of course.
Erin [00:26:33]: Because when I’m present with them, I don’t have my phone with me. Right. I’m so in the moment listening.
Rebecca [00:26:40]: That’s right.
Erin [00:26:41]: I will check in with you and say, I know this is such and such a season of your life.
Rebecca [00:26:45]: Life.
Erin [00:26:46]: Are you okay right now? That’s right. Then I’m assessing if you’re really okay or if you’re just telling me that you’re okay. That’s right. Right. And so when I think about my deepest, deepest friendships, and I would say my. My real, real close relationships, there’s like five or six people that I would say really have that. That energy impact from me. I feel like I’m at a give and take with them in a really beautiful way. I’m most vulnerable with these people at a level they know maybe 90 to 95% of who I am at my core. Then I also have that next ring of people who I’m really close with and I love to hang out with, but they don’t have all of the crazy details. Possibly because that’s just not what comes up in conversation or that’s not the type of relationship that we have.
Rebecca [00:27:40]: It doesn’t. But here’s the thing. It doesn’t mean they can’t go into the next ring. It just means they’ve shown examples of.
Erin [00:27:46]: Why they can’t or I haven’t given them the opportunity to get into that next ring because there’s no more room at the inn. That could be a part of it as well. But then I think about this twin flame status. Like we started the conversation with, so you’re my twin flame in the sense that it’s so effortless from me that I don’t have to be thinking about this, that, or the other thing. It’s just pure vulnerability. I don’t have to be assessing, and I can be having a great day, a bad day. I can forget to check in with you about something and it’s going to be completely fine. Right. But when I think about my partner, I don’t put him in that twin flame category. And I’m just wondering if that’s my Black and whiteness associated with how deeply, profoundly I have to feel that connection. And Mark is wonderful in a million different ways. He’s actually the best he’s ever, ever been in terms of attending and responding and. Right. All of these things. But I also am not disillusioned to think that my relationship from an emotional standpoint with Mark feels the same as my emotional relationship with you. And I am okay with that. So in my mind, these friendships, these relationships, I’m also doing things and talking about things with Mark that I am not doing and talking about with you. Right. That would be really weird.
Rebecca [00:29:15]: Yes.
Erin [00:29:16]: So there’s that. There’s that difference as well. But that doesn’t constitute friendship for me. That’s a whole different level of relationship intimacy that for sure that. That I don’t have with you or anyone else. Right. So they’re. They’re different. They’re surprise, surprise. I mean, put in two very different categories for me.
Rebecca [00:29:36]: Well, I mean, a marriage and a best friendship. Soulmates. There’s different types of soulmates. There’s different types of friendships. There’s different types of twin flames. There’s different. There’s. Those are different. Absolutely.
Erin [00:29:50]: But don’t you think that we sort of judge those friendships if they’re not at a certain level? So if they’re like, lower level or like, maybe even us, ourselves or our listeners, if they’re like, my life is filled with surface level relationships or my life. I think some people agree with that.
Rebecca [00:30:12]: Okay. I think there are a lot of people that are like, if I have 100,000 Facebook followers or if I have 1 million TikTok followers, I am nailing it. But I don’t have anybody to go to dinner with on Friday. I’m still nailing it. I do think there’s people out there like that I’m the type of person that’s like, if I don’t have one person following me online, I don’t care because I’m nailing it in my real life.
Erin [00:30:43]: But you’re also the kind of person that doesn’t need the 5 to 6 really closely connected best friendships.
Rebecca [00:30:51]: Yeah.
Erin [00:30:52]: You’re someone that’s okay with your twin flame and with your husband and my kids and with these. I don’t want to call them superficial because that doesn’t even sound like enough. But these, like, friendships that are not depth hissy, you know, in the weeds.
Rebecca [00:31:09]: Right.
Erin [00:31:09]: You’re actually quite comfortable in that place. Whereas someone else might look at that and be like, oh, I’m so sad for you. That you don’t have. Whatever. But your energy is wrapped up in the places it needs to be. In me and your husband, in your family, and in the energy of the social circle.
Rebecca [00:31:28]: Yeah. Yeah. And for me, it’s an. It’s an energy depiction. It’s. It’s where. It’s the buckets of energy that I put it in. Because we’ve talked about this before, I view my life as a. You could view it as a pie, you could view it as a calendar, you could view it as a clock, you could view it as however you want. And if I have to divide that energy and put it into those buckets, that’s all I have. That’s all I have to give. And therefore I have to divide it up in that way. That’s it.
Erin [00:32:03]: And as I’ve grown older, I wonder how many listeners can relate with this. I’ve much more focused in my energy management and where I’ve chosen to put my energy is into those really deep, pithy relationships. And that has meant that my sub relationships on the outside have started to fade. Not get as much energy from me. The random person who will contact me from a Facebook group and say, hey, I saw your post. Can I talk to you for a little while? I’m not giving my energy to that anymore. Yeah, the random friend that shows up that says, oh my God, I haven’t talked to you in 15 years, but you know, I was wondering if you had some insight into whatever. I will respond because that’s very true to me. Right. But I’ll respond with a paragraph as opposed to here’s your top 10 resources. Here’s where you can go for this. Follow up with me, let me know. So I really have invested any energy I have left in my husband and my child, in you, in my closest, closest, best friendships. And then that one step out for me is like places where I’ll put any remaining energy that I seem to have. I used to spend a tremendous amount of energy in the fringe and a lot of that was my people pleasing behavior and what I need to have to bring these people in. And then what would happen? They’d be like, aaron’s my absolute best friend in the entire world. And I would be like, this is not a fulfilling mutual relationship for me.
Rebecca [00:33:29]: So what changed when you, when you changed your behaviors? What difference in your life did it make?
Erin [00:33:36]: Oh, it’s been a huge, huge shift for me in beautifully positive ways. It’s been hard because I’m undoing the need to have to be liked and validated and seen and appreciated.
Rebecca [00:33:54]: Just so you know, you’re still liked and you’re still valued and you’re still appreciated.
Erin [00:33:58]: Thank you.
Rebecca [00:33:59]: I need you to know that.
Erin [00:34:00]: Thank you.
Rebecca [00:34:00]: You’re not unlike.
Erin [00:34:02]: You’re right.
Rebecca [00:34:03]: You’re very much liked. You’re very much loved.
Erin [00:34:05]: You’re right.
Rebecca [00:34:05]: All of those things.
Erin [00:34:06]: You’re right. That’s such a great reframe. Because it’s not that those things were a loss.
Rebecca [00:34:10]: Correct.
Erin [00:34:10]: It’s that if I wasn’t putting my energy into them anymore, my relationship with it became different. Right. And so I’m just curious again, when we think about navigating adult friendships, how many of our followers are in this situation? Is it different in your 30s? Is it different in your 40s? And then the real hard question to tease our very next episode is, what happens when you’ve outgrown a friendship?
Rebecca [00:34:36]: Yeah.
Erin [00:34:37]: So this episode’s about figuring out who’s in your circles. What is a friend? What does friendship mean to you?
Rebecca [00:34:43]: And then what happens?
Erin [00:34:44]: And then when we’ve made those shifts when some things change, for better or for worse, what happens when you outgrow a friendship? So join us for our next session when we tackle the hard stuff like we usually do. And until next time, the change. Yeah, that’s. That’s called perimenopause.
Rebecca [00:35:04]: We’ll talk about that.
Erin [00:35:05]: This is just friendship. It’s not a hot flash. Yeah, it’s totally fine.
Rebecca [00:35:09]: Okay.
Erin [00:35:09]: Until next time, keep feeling, keep questioning, and keep spreading more love.
Rebecca [00:35:25]: Sam.
Rebecca [00:00:24]: This tarot card.
Erin [00:00:25]: Total session here. Well, how come?
Scott [00:00:26]: Can I already jump in? Yeah, they’re all a good one.
Erin [00:00:30]: Thank you, Scott. Thank you, Scott. Yeah, I know. Yeah.
Rebecca [00:00:33]: Is there 3,000? 3,000?
Erin [00:00:35]: Is there ever one that I start with? Well, this session’s gonna suck.
Scott [00:00:38]: Yeah.
Erin [00:00:38]: So. Yeah. You did last time. I did.
Rebecca [00:00:40]: Well, this one’s gonna be a doozy.
Erin [00:00:42]: But what happened over there? What happened over there? Because I. I saw that something flew out.
Rebecca [00:00:46]: No, it didn’t fly. Fly out. I picked it and then I’m like, nope, I’m not feeling that one.
Erin [00:00:50]: Oh, really?
Rebecca [00:00:50]: I put it back, and then I realized that we were. Well, because we decided we’re gonna pull it live. And I pre. Pulled it and I’m like, nope, that wasn’t it. No, I said that we. I was going back on what we decided.
Erin [00:01:01]: Oh, yeah.
Rebecca [00:01:01]: So now I’m gonna pull it when it’s live.
Erin [00:01:03]: I see.
Rebecca [00:01:03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Scott [00:01:04]: That’s what she said.
Erin [00:01:05]: I see. I can’t.
Rebecca [00:01:07]: So I’m gonna wait to pull it. Go ahead. Do you. You start us off. Start us off.
Erin [00:01:13]: Today we’re gonna be talking about friendships. Navigating adult friendships.
Rebecca [00:01:18]: We’re not adults.
Erin [00:01:19]: I think this is gonna be a little multilayer cake here because I don’t think on the surface, I’ve not thought too much about this, that you and I have the same concept of friendship.
Rebecca [00:01:34]: Level of friendship.
Erin [00:01:35]: Not at all. Expectations around friendship. I think pretty true to how we live the rest of our lives. We have some very different, unique sort of thoughts about friendship. And otherwise. I think this one’s gonna be. This one’s gonna be interesting.
Rebecca [00:01:50]: Absolutely. Yeah.
Erin [00:01:51]: So. So hit us with some hippie voo. And then I’m gonna hit you with this question after you pull the hippie view. Vu. What is friendship?
Rebecca [00:01:59]: Oh, so you’re gonna make me decide it.
Erin [00:02:02]: What is friendship? So you’ll be thinking about that.
Rebecca [00:02:04]: This is our card.
Erin [00:02:05]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:02:05]: Achievement.
Erin [00:02:06]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:02:07]: Have we done this one? Eight of pentacles. Eight of pentacles with the turtle. I feel like we’ve done this one. I feel like I’ve mentioned a turtle before.
Scott [00:02:14]: I feel like everyone you do is some sort of pentacle.
Rebecca [00:02:17]: A pentacle. That’s money. It’s money, right? Like coins.
Erin [00:02:20]: That’s right.
Scott [00:02:21]: I always think of an octopus, but I know that’s wrong. It’s just because it rhymes with tentacle.
Rebecca [00:02:28]: Eight of pentacles. This eight shows achievement in Your profession or field of study. It is the card of perfectionist. That’s Aaron for sure. Who knows that small details can be important. You take pride in your work and set high standards. This attitude now pays off. Your finances improve as a result of hard work and commitment to succeed. An additional meaning is exam success, a return to education. As you decide to deepen your expertise, you have ability to earn more and learn more. Wherever you focus your energy, success will follow. That is probably the only part that makes sense. Then again, some people pay for friends. Okay, so you know they do.
Erin [00:03:14]: Yeah. Who pays for friends? What does that mean?
Scott [00:03:17]: One of them’s the president, but we’ll move on from there.
Erin [00:03:21]: What do you mean pays for friends?
Rebecca [00:03:22]: I think people pay to have friends.
Scott [00:03:24]: Oh, sure.
Erin [00:03:24]: What do you mean? Like, they’re like, hi there.
Rebecca [00:03:27]: No, I don’t, like, write a check like, hi, I will pay you $100 to be my friend. No, I think people pay. I mean the kinds. Like.
Scott [00:03:38]: It’S like they shower them with gifts. They do all kinds of stuff for.
Rebecca [00:03:41]: Them people don’t really like. Yeah, okay, okay.
Erin [00:03:44]: Sorry. I went a little black and white there.
Rebecca [00:03:46]: Thinking of a writing of that social media, you want to appear to be popular, so you pay to have followers or things like that.
Erin [00:03:53]: Okay. Yeah, okay. Okay. Which really brings me to my first question. What is friendship? Because in my mind, that’s great. You know what?
Rebecca [00:04:01]: This card is actually really great.
Erin [00:04:03]: Launched us right off.
Rebecca [00:04:03]: This is a really great achievement. How.
Erin [00:04:07]: How do you get more friends that are all so fake?
Rebecca [00:04:10]: Are you a high achiever in the friendship realm?
Erin [00:04:12]: Right.
Rebecca [00:04:13]: My answer is no. No. Erin is a high achiever. I am a low achiever.
Erin [00:04:21]: I do feel like a high achiever in the friendship realm. I really do. Scott, are you a high achiever in the friendship realm?
Scott [00:04:28]: Not as high as you, I would think.
Erin [00:04:30]: Okay. But higher than Rebecca.
Scott [00:04:32]: But I think I’m a. I think I’m a pretty good friend. I don’t have any for you to ask.
Rebecca [00:04:37]: No, I’m a great friend. I’m not a friend collector.
Erin [00:04:42]: She’s not high achieving in the friend area. When you think about friendships, you’re not like, oh, that’s totally Rebecca. Rebecca just reels them in.
Rebecca [00:04:49]: Right. I’m not a friend collector.
Scott [00:04:51]: I think you’d have to go back and perfectly define a friend.
Erin [00:04:57]: Well, that’s great because that’s what we’re doing right here. So what is a friend? Has your definition of friend changed over the years? Like, what is a friend to you?
Rebecca [00:05:07]: I think there’s multiple definitions of friend.
Erin [00:05:10]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:05:10]: So I am. I’m a multi layered friend.
Erin [00:05:14]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:05:15]: I am a different person with different people.
Erin [00:05:18]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:05:19]: So my, my idea of a friend with one person is drastically different with a different person. My friendship with you is very different with my friendship with my soccer mom friends is different with my high school friends is different than when my college friends is different with my next door neighbor friend. Like, I have different levels of friendship and different depths of friendship and different levels. I don’t know if level and depth is the same, but I don’t know what other word to use.
Scott [00:05:53]: Degrees.
Rebecca [00:05:53]: Degree. Yes. Yes. I show different variations of my personality, of my vulnerability. I am a very different person around different people. Where I don’t think you are pretty drastic.
Erin [00:06:08]: You’re saying those levels are pretty drastic?
Rebecca [00:06:10]: I would say people know the essence of me.
Erin [00:06:13]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:06:14]: But don’t know my depth or even a whole lot about me. Depending on who you are to me.
Erin [00:06:20]: And is there a common denominator within each of those friend circles that you just described? Like, if we think about what is friendship, what is at the core of all of those connections? Both the people that are.
Rebecca [00:06:35]: What would classify you in that. To be put in that group, either.
Erin [00:06:38]: A college person or me or like what Different.
Rebecca [00:06:43]: What would put you in a friend category?
Erin [00:06:45]: What would get you into any one.
Rebecca [00:06:47]: Of those groups versus just an acquaintance or somebody on the street? Um, I can. I like being around you and I would be around you for a second time.
Erin [00:06:57]: Okay. That’s it. That’s those only qualifications.
Scott [00:07:01]: Like. Like a favorite restaurant.
Rebecca [00:07:03]: I like.
Erin [00:07:03]: That was pretty good. I’ll do it again. I. I think I’ll do it a second time.
Rebecca [00:07:07]: That would be the first. First thing.
Erin [00:07:10]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:07:10]: And then the second thing would be you have something interesting to say.
Erin [00:07:15]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:07:16]: And I like talking to you.
Erin [00:07:17]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:07:18]: And then the third would be you’re fun to be around and I’m not bored.
Erin [00:07:23]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:07:26]: And then she’s honest.
Erin [00:07:28]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:07:28]: And then the four.
Erin [00:07:29]: Do you have to have connection in any way with this person or are those all examples of connection?
Rebecca [00:07:34]: Well, well, that.
Erin [00:07:36]: Well, you.
Rebecca [00:07:37]: That’s why I don’t have a lot of friends. Because usually when I’m bored, when we’re not connected.
Erin [00:07:43]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:07:43]: So that, that usually tapers off real quick.
Erin [00:07:47]: So yeah.
Rebecca [00:07:48]: Board. Board and connection are kind of the same thing.
Erin [00:07:50]: Right. And so you have a twin flame.
Rebecca [00:07:52]: Oh one.
Erin [00:07:53]: Right. One.
Rebecca [00:07:54]: Well, two. My husband. But that’s a different kind of twin flames. That’s like the 69.
Erin [00:07:58]: He’s a real dull Flame.
Rebecca [00:08:00]: He’s a real doll Flame. I love him.
Erin [00:08:04]: I’m in the same category as Philip. For real? Well, yeah.
Rebecca [00:08:08]: I mean, you’re my. You’re my soul mate, and he’s.
Erin [00:08:10]: Yes.
Rebecca [00:08:11]: I mean, he’s my husband, and you’re my women husband. My woman twin flame.
Erin [00:08:19]: I don’t like being in the same category as Philip.
Rebecca [00:08:21]: You want to be an elevated version.
Erin [00:08:23]: I’m just very different from Philip in a lot of different ways.
Rebecca [00:08:27]: I would agree.
Erin [00:08:28]: Thinking that I’m in the same circle as Philip. When I think about what we talk about, the depth of what we talk about, our future plans, the goals, where we’re going, where we’re going for our 50th birthday, like that is true.
Rebecca [00:08:41]: We are going on a romantic vacation, you and me.
Erin [00:08:44]: In my mind. Then I think about Philip, and I think about him just sitting outside having a beer and a cigarette in the driveway. And I’m like, there’s something just not the same about that. The emotional connectivity, the emotional capacity, the. You know, as we talked about in a past session, how I wrote you all those notes when I was going on a cruise, and Philip’s like, it’s Mother’s Day. I just. Something about that. Sorry. Just doesn’t sit right.
Rebecca [00:09:13]: Okay. What’s a friend to you?
Scott [00:09:16]: But if you think about it, if you think about it, it makes sense, because. How long have you been married, Rebecca?
Rebecca [00:09:22]: 17 years.
Scott [00:09:22]: 17 years. How long have you guys been friends?
Rebecca [00:09:25]: 20 years.
Scott [00:09:26]: 20 years.
Rebecca [00:09:27]: Well, I bet me and Philip and Aaron all met at the same time.
Scott [00:09:29]: Okay, so you’ve all your relationship has gone through the years, and therefore, because you change, the relationship changes at the same time. So it makes sense that you would be kind of at the same level, because imagine you now suddenly reconnecting with someone that you were friends with when you were 12, and then trying to, like, navigate how you would connect with them now as opposed to when you were 12.
Rebecca [00:09:56]: Right. For sure.
Scott [00:09:57]: So, like the. The. Or what’s the word I’m looking for, the evolution of your relationships. Were. Were Right. Right in line. Right next to each other.
Erin [00:10:06]: That’s right.
Scott [00:10:06]: And there’s not really. Would be at that same level.
Rebecca [00:10:11]: That’s right.
Scott [00:10:11]: Right.
Erin [00:10:12]: Fair. Yes. I think that my answer to what is friendship? Will further define why Philip and I can’t be in the same twin flame category. I just think we think maybe about friendship a little differently. So when I think about friendship, I have very deep relationships with a lot of people.
Rebecca [00:10:35]: Yes.
Erin [00:10:36]: And I have very few superficial relationships. And I would Say that those people get the same version of me, but at a very different depth. But it’s still the same version of me. Regardless of if I just met you on a bus or if you’re my twin flame, I would agree.
Rebecca [00:11:00]: And I know that because I have worked with you, I’ve seen you in a professional environment. I have seen you in public. I mean, I’ve seen all the gamuts. But you’ve also seen me in all the gamuts, so. And you’ve seen me be a different version of myself.
Erin [00:11:14]: Very much so.
Rebecca [00:11:15]: In all the gamuts.
Erin [00:11:16]: Very much so. And. And you and I have talked before that it’s difficult because I sometimes can see the version of yourself that you’re putting out to someone else. And you’ll say to me, like, what is going on there? Like, okay, I’ve actually had to stop myself from saying things out loud. And then when we get in the be like, how come you acted like this? And then you’ll explain it and I’ll be like, okay, that makes perfect sense.
Rebecca [00:11:40]: Exactly. Right, Exactly.
Erin [00:11:41]: But when I think about sort of friendship or what is friendship to me, connection is the very first word that comes to mind. And I don’t just mean connection like you’re interesting to me, or I can engage with you in some type of conversation. There is something about that connection that I feel massively drawn to. And it’s almost like two magnets that come together. Right.
Rebecca [00:12:09]: It’s a physical feeling. It’s like it’s a energetic, empathic, physical feeling immediately. And I feel those things too, which is why I’m in the presence of someone. I can immediately tell whether or not I’m going to engage initially. That’s my initial.
Erin [00:12:33]: Like, if you’re even gonna say hello.
Rebecca [00:12:35]: Or what type of hello, I’m gonna say.
Erin [00:12:38]: Because you automatically feel like there could be a connection there.
Rebecca [00:12:41]: Yes. I’ve decided if I’m gonna even interest.
Erin [00:12:44]: Give you a interesting.
Rebecca [00:12:46]: A certain kind of smile, and I.
Erin [00:12:48]: Do the opposite, which is I try to keep myself from engaging because I know myself well enough to know that I’m either gonna ask you a question or I’m gonna make you feel a certain way in this conversation that before you know it, we’re deep seated into your life trauma at a soccer game. And I didn’t really wanna go there.
Rebecca [00:13:11]: Right, right, right. Because you can’t be yourself.
Erin [00:13:14]: So for me, I actually find myself not trying to make those connections because it’s gonna be too much. It’s gonna be too much. Energy, for sure, for me. But the sort of. This baseline of friendship for me is associated with connection. And then I find that the deeper the friendship goes has much more to do with a natural give and take and trust that I feel in that friendship. It used to be the case that I was really guarded or I think maybe subconsciously didn’t share much about myself with other people and in expectation that they were going to ask the right types of questions that would then make me want to share more, for sure. That would then leave me highly disappointed. And in lopsided relationships, I would say through my 30s, that was happening because I would always wait and it would never come. And then I would become this person’s therapist.
Rebecca [00:14:20]: Yep.
Erin [00:14:22]: Instead of it being, I really want to get to know you a little bit more as a person. But I will never forget being in my master’s program with Dr. Mohi Shakur. Love that man. Love that man so much. When I say, like, just peace, presence here on Earth, like he’s. He’s of a different level.
Rebecca [00:14:44]: I love that.
Erin [00:14:45]: And I remember we used to do interpersonal relationships groups where the actual group was us all sitting around with no topic to talk about, and we would just bring things up and we would tend to each other in this group, and we get to the end of this group. So again, I must be in my early 20s at this point, going through my masters, and I get up the courage to finally say, oh, God, I want to die.
Rebecca [00:15:13]: Oh, God, I want to die. Oh, God, I want to die. What are you going to say to this group of people that you barely know?
Erin [00:15:18]: This is your last. We’re now. We’re now close to the end of the. The actual 15 week semester. So I know them incredibly well.
Rebecca [00:15:24]: Oh, I’m so uncomfortable.
Erin [00:15:25]: Right.
Rebecca [00:15:26]: I could never be in your program.
Erin [00:15:27]: And then Moohi’s sitting in on the group. It was a. It was a fishbowl style. So you have people that are behind the. The two way glass watching it, and you have people that are in your group hate it. And I remember saying, I’m so uncomfortable.
Rebecca [00:15:41]: I’m not getting there.
Erin [00:15:41]: Getting toward the end and thinking, I really got my. I got my courage up. I’m going to say something. And I. I basically said, I feel like I know people really well in this group, but that no one has really taken the opportunity to get to know me. And this is a theme that happens in my life considerably. And I. I don’t like how that feels. And now I feel sadness that we’re at the end of the semester and yet another time has gone by that I didn’t make genuine connections with people because people weren’t curious about me. I was real proud of that response. And Muhi in his, like, beautiful, he sits back, you know, he puts his hands on his freaking lap.
Rebecca [00:16:25]: What’d he say?
Erin [00:16:26]: He said, I wish I could remember exactly because he’s like present day Gandhi in my mind. He said something along the lines of. I find myself really annoyed by your statement.
Rebecca [00:16:42]: What?
Erin [00:16:43]: And I think it’s because you’ve had so many opportunities during this class to tell people who you were and instead you sat by passively waiting for them to find out. Like you’ve been testing us this whole time to see if we were worthy to know about you. And the reality is, we would love to know about you, but. But if you don’t take that first step to give us something to get to know, you will always be at a distance from other people.
Rebecca [00:17:18]: And what was your face like? Wait, did you wanna die? Did you want to die?
Erin [00:17:27]: I felt 2 inches tall.
Rebecca [00:17:32]: I would too. Because I would never, ever, ever offer something about myself without being asked. Because that’s in my mind, the rudest thing you could possibly do.
Erin [00:17:42]: Oh, interesting.
Rebecca [00:17:43]: You don’t, you don’t talk about yourself without being asked.
Scott [00:17:47]: I can’t believe no one here asked how cool I am.
Rebecca [00:17:51]: Oh no, like nobody. I don’t mean, I don’t mean that part.
Scott [00:17:55]: How cool are you, Scott? Just kidding. I’m taking, I just mean take an exaggerated.
Rebecca [00:18:00]: I would feel the same way you do because you don’t just offer things about your. That’s like, it would feel like one upping somebody if they’re talking about them and then you contribute. That would feel horrible.
Erin [00:18:11]: Here I was, here I was in this group making sure I was tending to everyone else.
Rebecca [00:18:16]: Absolutely.
Erin [00:18:17]: But what was happening, what he was pointing out was that that was by design. It was intentional. So essentially what he was saying to me was, you do such a masterful job making sure everyone else is taken care of to deflect people getting to know about you. And then have the audacity to sit here at the end of a semester and play victim that no one else got to know you when you’ve intentionally, subconsciously kept people at a distance this entire time.
Rebecca [00:18:48]: I don’t know.
Erin [00:18:48]: And I, I, I really, I can hear that. I can hear that because I don’t think deep down.
Rebecca [00:18:56]: Do you think that’s true?
Erin [00:18:57]: 100%.
Rebecca [00:18:58]: Okay, if you think that’s true.
Erin [00:19:01]: I subconsciously I think people do this a lot. I think in our friendships when we are not ready to expose who we truly are or we want to keep people sort of. It’s like a meter. We want to keep them like metered at a certain distance away from us. We do this subtly in these really masterful ways.
Rebecca [00:19:25]: Okay.
Erin [00:19:25]: Some examples would be, you’re phenomenal at this point. You are so good at this. You’re probably so good that you don’t even realize how good you are at it.
Rebecca [00:19:34]: I would agree with you.
Erin [00:19:35]: Right.
Rebecca [00:19:35]: In certain circumstances. Yes.
Erin [00:19:37]: Certain things. Like someone is asking you about yourself and you start to go down the rabbit hole a little bit and then you start to feel a little bit uncomfortable with where’s the rest of the questions going to come? This feels a little bit more like a therapy interrogation than it does real question. And all of a sudden you say, but how are your kids?
Rebecca [00:19:55]: 100%.
Erin [00:19:55]: How’s everything going for you? And you immediately switch.
Rebecca [00:19:58]: Yes.
Erin [00:19:59]: Because you’re like, I don’t love how this feels right now, but what do you say? Well, that’s just pleasant conversation. Yes. That’s just, you know, what you’re supposed to do.
Rebecca [00:20:07]: Right.
Erin [00:20:07]: But we don’t own that. We maybe did that intentionally because we were feeling uncomfortable because we didn’t want to get asked the real hard questions. Right. I’m thinking specifically about a friend I have in my life who feels like the relationship she has with one of her other friends is so lopsided that essentially all this person does all the time is therapy. Question her like, how, how’s this? How is what’s going on here? How about this? What’s the follow up with this? And it doesn’t feel equal. So my friend then goes to ask questions of this other person and they give just a little bit of information. But how my friend feels about that is like, this isn’t an equal friendship. This is actually you just wanting to be in the deets of what’s going on in my life all of the time. But you’re keeping yourself at such a distance. Right. Which really begs the question for me when it comes to friendship. So we would qualify those as friends. Right. Or friendships. But that there’s these different levels maybe of ways in which we allow people to get to see or to know us.
Rebecca [00:21:14]: I would agree. Yes, I would totally agree.
Erin [00:21:16]: Okay.
Rebecca [00:21:17]: But at the same time, you having that revelation because you internalized that and felt that way, I had a different reaction because I didn’t feel that way.
Erin [00:21:30]: You wouldn’t, you don’t because you aren’t connected with the fact that you would be doing that in group. Yeah, but you would.
Rebecca [00:21:38]: I don’t know if I would. I know you’re giving me that look, but I don’t know if I would.
Erin [00:21:43]: Zoom in on that.
Rebecca [00:21:44]: Scott, stop it right now. What? Your look. Yeah, zoom in on her look.
Erin [00:21:50]: Zoom in on that.
Rebecca [00:21:51]: I don’t know you.
Erin [00:21:53]: Let’s just play this one out a little bit. You’re in this. You’re in this group with your classmates, and there’s like, maybe 20 classmates. 10 of them are all sitting in a fishbowl. You’re being watched by other 10 other classmates behind a glass mirror that are literally sitting there with pieces of paper and pens writing down what they observed in the group. And the whole goal of this group is to sit in silence until someone feels the need to have to bring something up. Yeah. And when they do bring something up, someone else might say, oh, I noticed when you. It says, this is a here and now group. It’s not a. Let’s talk about the fact that you just brought up your barbecue from Saturday. Right. If you brought up your barbecue from Saturday, people would say, I’m just curious if you bringing up your barbecue from Saturday is because you really wanted to talk about that or you were looking for something from the group, or if you’re trying to avoid conversations about other things. And then everyone would stare at you, and they’d be like, I noticed you just got your eyebrow went up a little bit. Right. Like, it’s that level of, like, under a microscope.
Rebecca [00:22:54]: Yeah.
Erin [00:22:55]: You want to talk about uncomfortable, you would be like, guess what I’m doing. I don’t like uncomfortable silences. So you would bring something up, and someone would say, rebecca, how do you feel about uncomfortable silences? And you’d be like, I’m sorry, I got to go to the bathroom. So I really think in the presence of this here and now group.
Rebecca [00:23:14]: Yeah.
Erin [00:23:15]: If you’d probably never, at the end would have been like, I really wanted people to get to know me, because that’s the difference. You would be like, I actually am quite happy with people not getting to know me because I’m most comfortable there. Whereas I was longing for that connection of people seeing me. Right. Maybe that’s the difference.
Rebecca [00:23:33]: Maybe.
Erin [00:23:33]: Yeah, you’d be very fine and happy, you know, maybe sharing little bits and pieces, but you’d be throwing that out there for people just so that they got enough to satiate. Satiate them. And then you would be like, good. They’re not gonna ask anything else, but the minute someone was like, I wanna know more about that, I wanna know more about you.
Rebecca [00:23:52]: But I’m also very conscious of, in my relationships, I never want to feel like I’m one upping someone in a conversation. So like if you’re sharing something that is really exciting, like your business.
Erin [00:24:06]: Right.
Rebecca [00:24:07]: Something really great happen to you in your business today and you are sharing a moment and I’m so excited for you. I don’t want to use that opportunity to quote, unquote, relate or share something about me that could come off as a one upper or that could come off as something like. I’m very conscious of those kinds of things. So like it’s very. There’s a line.
Erin [00:24:29]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:24:30]: Where’s the line? And there’s a social nuance.
Erin [00:24:32]: Social give and take.
Rebecca [00:24:33]: Yeah. And that’s. People need to be really. Some people are very good at that and some people aren’t. There’s a way to have genuine, authentic conversations. And honestly, I would say a lot of people aren’t very good at that.
Erin [00:24:47]: Oh no, A lot of people aren’t.
Rebecca [00:24:49]: Very good at that.
Erin [00:24:49]: I don’t think so.
Rebecca [00:24:50]: And the people that are very good at that don’t ever talk about themselves, which is me and you, frankly.
Erin [00:24:55]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:24:55]: And therefore people don’t ever get to know us because they’re not savvy enough to recognize that the entire conversation was one way. And then they don’t sit there and think, okay, we just spent the last 16 minutes talking. I mean, think about, think about our morning conversations. I am very conscious of how long we’re talking about the one sided conversation. And I know you are too.
Erin [00:25:13]: Oh yeah.
Rebecca [00:25:13]: Because then immediately it’s like, oh, okay, let’s talk about what happened for your weekend.
Erin [00:25:17]: Ye. Yeah.
Rebecca [00:25:17]: It’s just, it’s a very conscious conversation constantly.
Erin [00:25:22]: What is that? That’s just an awareness, I guess, of like it’s savviness.
Rebecca [00:25:28]: It’s. And I don’t know if people have that type of.
Erin [00:25:31]: So I would agree with that. I would say after that Moohi situation and later on in my life, in my later 30s or my later 40s, I, for whatever reason, Kelly is coming up for me, specifically with Kelly. And we used to take these walks around. We still do, but not as much anymore. Walks around the neighborhood. I would force myself to share something about myself that I normally wouldn’t in an attempt to say I want to have a closer relationship with Kelly and it’s my responsibility to own that and to go There. Then we ended up having beautiful conversations about what that was like and. Right. And so I would say when we’re talking about adult friendships, the amount of energy that I put into my closest of close adult friendships is not of this earth.
Rebecca [00:26:23]: Agree.
Erin [00:26:24]: Because of those social niceties that you’re thinking about. Because I want to remember to check in with so and so. Because such and such is happening in their life.
Rebecca [00:26:32]: Of course.
Erin [00:26:33]: Because when I’m present with them, I don’t have my phone with me. Right. I’m so in the moment listening.
Rebecca [00:26:40]: That’s right.
Erin [00:26:41]: I will check in with you and say, I know this is such and such a season of your life.
Rebecca [00:26:45]: Life.
Erin [00:26:46]: Are you okay right now? That’s right. Then I’m assessing if you’re really okay or if you’re just telling me that you’re okay. That’s right. Right. And so when I think about my deepest, deepest friendships, and I would say my. My real, real close relationships, there’s like five or six people that I would say really have that. That energy impact from me. I feel like I’m at a give and take with them in a really beautiful way. I’m most vulnerable with these people at a level they know maybe 90 to 95% of who I am at my core. Then I also have that next ring of people who I’m really close with and I love to hang out with, but they don’t have all of the crazy details. Possibly because that’s just not what comes up in conversation or that’s not the type of relationship that we have.
Rebecca [00:27:40]: It doesn’t. But here’s the thing. It doesn’t mean they can’t go into the next ring. It just means they’ve shown examples of.
Erin [00:27:46]: Why they can’t or I haven’t given them the opportunity to get into that next ring because there’s no more room at the inn. That could be a part of it as well. But then I think about this twin flame status. Like we started the conversation with, so you’re my twin flame in the sense that it’s so effortless from me that I don’t have to be thinking about this, that, or the other thing. It’s just pure vulnerability. I don’t have to be assessing, and I can be having a great day, a bad day. I can forget to check in with you about something and it’s going to be completely fine. Right. But when I think about my partner, I don’t put him in that twin flame category. And I’m just wondering if that’s my Black and whiteness associated with how deeply, profoundly I have to feel that connection. And Mark is wonderful in a million different ways. He’s actually the best he’s ever, ever been in terms of attending and responding and. Right. All of these things. But I also am not disillusioned to think that my relationship from an emotional standpoint with Mark feels the same as my emotional relationship with you. And I am okay with that. So in my mind, these friendships, these relationships, I’m also doing things and talking about things with Mark that I am not doing and talking about with you. Right. That would be really weird.
Rebecca [00:29:15]: Yes.
Erin [00:29:16]: So there’s that. There’s that difference as well. But that doesn’t constitute friendship for me. That’s a whole different level of relationship intimacy that for sure that. That I don’t have with you or anyone else. Right. So they’re. They’re different. They’re surprise, surprise. I mean, put in two very different categories for me.
Rebecca [00:29:36]: Well, I mean, a marriage and a best friendship. Soulmates. There’s different types of soulmates. There’s different types of friendships. There’s different types of twin flames. There’s different. There’s. Those are different. Absolutely.
Erin [00:29:50]: But don’t you think that we sort of judge those friendships if they’re not at a certain level? So if they’re like, lower level or like, maybe even us, ourselves or our listeners, if they’re like, my life is filled with surface level relationships or my life. I think some people agree with that.
Rebecca [00:30:12]: Okay. I think there are a lot of people that are like, if I have 100,000 Facebook followers or if I have 1 million TikTok followers, I am nailing it. But I don’t have anybody to go to dinner with on Friday. I’m still nailing it. I do think there’s people out there like that I’m the type of person that’s like, if I don’t have one person following me online, I don’t care because I’m nailing it in my real life.
Erin [00:30:43]: But you’re also the kind of person that doesn’t need the 5 to 6 really closely connected best friendships.
Rebecca [00:30:51]: Yeah.
Erin [00:30:52]: You’re someone that’s okay with your twin flame and with your husband and my kids and with these. I don’t want to call them superficial because that doesn’t even sound like enough. But these, like, friendships that are not depth hissy, you know, in the weeds.
Rebecca [00:31:09]: Right.
Erin [00:31:09]: You’re actually quite comfortable in that place. Whereas someone else might look at that and be like, oh, I’m so sad for you. That you don’t have. Whatever. But your energy is wrapped up in the places it needs to be. In me and your husband, in your family, and in the energy of the social circle.
Rebecca [00:31:28]: Yeah. Yeah. And for me, it’s an. It’s an energy depiction. It’s. It’s where. It’s the buckets of energy that I put it in. Because we’ve talked about this before, I view my life as a. You could view it as a pie, you could view it as a calendar, you could view it as a clock, you could view it as however you want. And if I have to divide that energy and put it into those buckets, that’s all I have. That’s all I have to give. And therefore I have to divide it up in that way. That’s it.
Erin [00:32:03]: And as I’ve grown older, I wonder how many listeners can relate with this. I’ve much more focused in my energy management and where I’ve chosen to put my energy is into those really deep, pithy relationships. And that has meant that my sub relationships on the outside have started to fade. Not get as much energy from me. The random person who will contact me from a Facebook group and say, hey, I saw your post. Can I talk to you for a little while? I’m not giving my energy to that anymore. Yeah, the random friend that shows up that says, oh my God, I haven’t talked to you in 15 years, but you know, I was wondering if you had some insight into whatever. I will respond because that’s very true to me. Right. But I’ll respond with a paragraph as opposed to here’s your top 10 resources. Here’s where you can go for this. Follow up with me, let me know. So I really have invested any energy I have left in my husband and my child, in you, in my closest, closest, best friendships. And then that one step out for me is like places where I’ll put any remaining energy that I seem to have. I used to spend a tremendous amount of energy in the fringe and a lot of that was my people pleasing behavior and what I need to have to bring these people in. And then what would happen? They’d be like, aaron’s my absolute best friend in the entire world. And I would be like, this is not a fulfilling mutual relationship for me.
Rebecca [00:33:29]: So what changed when you, when you changed your behaviors? What difference in your life did it make?
Erin [00:33:36]: Oh, it’s been a huge, huge shift for me in beautifully positive ways. It’s been hard because I’m undoing the need to have to be liked and validated and seen and appreciated.
Rebecca [00:33:54]: Just so you know, you’re still liked and you’re still valued and you’re still appreciated.
Erin [00:33:58]: Thank you.
Rebecca [00:33:59]: I need you to know that.
Erin [00:34:00]: Thank you.
Rebecca [00:34:00]: You’re not unlike.
Erin [00:34:02]: You’re right.
Rebecca [00:34:03]: You’re very much liked. You’re very much loved.
Erin [00:34:05]: You’re right.
Rebecca [00:34:05]: All of those things.
Erin [00:34:06]: You’re right. That’s such a great reframe. Because it’s not that those things were a loss.
Rebecca [00:34:10]: Correct.
Erin [00:34:10]: It’s that if I wasn’t putting my energy into them anymore, my relationship with it became different. Right. And so I’m just curious again, when we think about navigating adult friendships, how many of our followers are in this situation? Is it different in your 30s? Is it different in your 40s? And then the real hard question to tease our very next episode is, what happens when you’ve outgrown a friendship?
Rebecca [00:34:36]: Yeah.
Erin [00:34:37]: So this episode’s about figuring out who’s in your circles. What is a friend? What does friendship mean to you?
Rebecca [00:34:43]: And then what happens?
Erin [00:34:44]: And then when we’ve made those shifts when some things change, for better or for worse, what happens when you outgrow a friendship? So join us for our next session when we tackle the hard stuff like we usually do. And until next time, the change. Yeah, that’s. That’s called perimenopause.
Rebecca [00:35:04]: We’ll talk about that.
Erin [00:35:05]: This is just friendship. It’s not a hot flash. Yeah, it’s totally fine.
Rebecca [00:35:09]: Okay.
Erin [00:35:09]: Until next time, keep feeling, keep questioning, and keep spreading more love.
Rebecca [00:35:25]: Sam.
