00;00;00;00 – 00;00;20;13
Unknown
I am true to myself. I know that pure joy is the result of being in alignment with my soul. Interesting. Yeah. When we read, we read this one later of that. So so much. Okay, so let’s unpack boundaries a little bit. And if you would both indulge me a bit, I would love to give you a list through an example.
00;00;20;20 – 00;00;37;01
Unknown
Okay okay. Scott, you ready for this? I know you’ve been dying to know what’s been going on here. So.
00;00;37;03 – 00;00;59;12
Unknown
It doesn’t. They? Hey, it’s me. Erin. Thanks for joining us on the More Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside. But the truth is, she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Oh, here she comes. Hey, bestie. Hi, love.
00;00;59;12 – 00;01;20;21
Unknown
What are you doing? Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast about what? Our life, our life as best friends who are more like sisters. Yay! I love us, and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world, especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right to be our most authentic selves. Oh, man.
00;01;20;24 – 00;01;43;28
Unknown
Okay. We’re back. We’re back. Well, I don’t know when we were gone, but we feel like we’re back. I know, I know. It’s so funny. We took a little. We wasn’t even taking a hiatus. Just got a little busy. Well, I know, a little bit. End of the summer. Nuts. We went from nakedness to full on sweater. It’s basically winter.
00;01;44;00 – 00;02;03;11
Unknown
But what happened as soon as I sat down in this podcast chair, is I legit reached over my right shoulder to put my seat belt on, like I was sitting in a chair in the car. Buckle up. And I always thought, oh, maybe that is just, you know, foreshadowing to see the shirt I have. I do, yes. Listen to me.
00;02;03;12 – 00;02;22;18
Unknown
Oh come on, Scott, Rebecca’s been taken inventory of how often you wear that shirt, what day it is when you wear that. Fucked up. I absolutely thought that when I walked in today, I thought, you know, he hasn’t won that shirt in a while. Yeah. You do. You are literally. Oh, I know you read me. I know, but you’ve also you’ve been taken inventory every time you come in here.
00;02;22;19 – 00;02;38;07
Unknown
I got a little iron shirt. Well not fair. Well, lost a couple of pounds, so now this feels better. Congratulations. You know who’s not going to lose weight if I sit next to this cookie, smile much longer. You got this. This is not okay. I’m waiting for the cookies to come in. Susan, that one of the tacos, so.
00;02;38;07 – 00;02;55;26
Unknown
Oh, no no, no no, Taco. I don’t like your smell. Thanks. No no, no. Yeah, the liver and onions. One doesn’t know. It’s not doing it. It’s not doing it. That’s not okay. You. Scott. Why don’t we take the next ten minutes and you tell us how much you missed us? Yeah. Yes, please. Can you tell us what we do?
00;02;56;00 – 00;03;13;06
Unknown
What about us? Do you need a little flour? Why don’t we want to know why you missed us? Are you. We want to know individually why you missed. Are you pulled out of I love you. Yeah. We want to know what feelings were coming up for you. How much you miss. This is like, how does this stupid,
00;03;13;08 – 00;03;29;00
Unknown
So it’s okay for all of us that she wants 20 minutes of congratulations. Of what she did. Well, so we want individual information about what you miss the most about each one of us, and then what you miss the most collectively when we weren’t here. Jesus. If I had known that I was going to have to do this.
00;03;29;03 – 00;03;46;22
Unknown
Oh, you made a list. Made a list. This is good training for your marriage, Scott, because Kelly can come out with this stuff at any time. I don’t need any more. So my marriage is 21 years. 20 years, and you should be good at the on the spot. Who’s lead back? Okay, well, you just said you just had a little moment to panic.
00;03;46;24 – 00;04;10;08
Unknown
All right, all right, so besides the fact that you both are gorgeous. Oh, thank you tastic today. Thank you. With the long ass fake hair. Yeah, yeah. That’s terrific. Yeah, I know you all are surprised to hear that. That was rough. Now I know what you’re going to get. Yeah, we got it. For those of you listeners who don’t know, we got into the habit of recording these on Monday mornings.
00;04;10;10 – 00;04;29;05
Unknown
Two at a time. So it was a long Monday morning for you. Yeah it was but but and a long anticipation the night before. There used to be now. Oh no. It used to be because it used to be. You remember there was a time where it was very stressful for me to do this show. Oh, I don’t remember that at all.
00;04;29;11 – 00;04;45;00
Unknown
And it wasn’t anything to do with you personally. It was the tech. Oh, I was having a tech. I was having a lot of tech problems for a time, so it was, like really difficult for me to get things going. But now I got. Can you see them behind me? Where are they? Where’s Jo Jo? Where are you, Jo?
00;04;45;00 – 00;05;03;13
Unknown
Popping the bubble up in a bubble. Jo. Jo. Oh, that’s on bitch right there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, he almost got fired this morning if he was going to be late. But he wasn’t. He was on time. Is that you? I’ve made it clear that he can stroll in and stroll out whenever he wants. As long as he kicks ass while he’s here.
00;05;03;16 – 00;05;28;23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he does, he does. So, he has helped tremendously in a lot of the stress relieving things here, and we’re still working through that. I mean, he’s fairly new, have been here for six years and he just started what now. My Mondays I feel, are less stressful because I’m not sitting here for two hours doing a show when work’s not getting done.
00;05;28;25 – 00;05;52;04
Unknown
And so now work’s getting done and now I can enjoy the space that we share. How did you hear a lot of compliments about Jo and nothing about I. I’m okay to We’ve had gotta be real frickin rocket ship. Good. Cause Jo just got a resounding review here. Sure. Yeah. Great. Great. Great. Jo. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah.
00;05;52;05 – 00;06;21;28
Unknown
Jo. Jo. Jo. Jo. Jo. Next step. Yeah. We’re still waiting. It’s fine, but. For. So you both are tremendously funny. Oh. Thank you. Who is funnier, though? Oh, definitely you. Well, see, there’s definitely a there’s there’s different, of of comedy going on here. You know, what are those types? What are those types? Yeah. So, well, obviously we’re in the middle of some sort of situational comedy, right?
00;06;22;01 – 00;06;43;07
Unknown
Where you’ve got you’ve got the the ball of chaos. Just keeping yourself together. Rebecca. Yeah. And then you’ve got the what the fuck is your point of view? Sharon. That I try to I try to like. And that’s why the bubbles in the middle. Because I’m constantly trying to understand how to be in the middle. Goodbye. Goodbye. Oh, my God, that’s what.
00;06;43;07 – 00;07;07;13
Unknown
That’s really hard. It’s really hard to to to do that. Yeah, but but you both always make my Mondays just happier because it’s just fun. It’s fun, fun, fun. And I do learn something from the podcast and I have I have actually taken what I’ve learned and applied it to my life in many cases. So we’re there. We work is done here.
00;07;07;14 – 00;07;24;22
Unknown
That’s right. And work is this. That’s all we care about. All we care. Let’s cool. We want oh there’s there’s more to. Oh, there. Oh. That’s it. Your work is never done. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Just. Okay. So go back to remember the whole issue I had with my neighbor upstairs. The neighbor in the South.
00;07;24;24 – 00;07;45;09
Unknown
Absolutely. We are like this now. Oh I’m over here. But you know, she she texts me now and says, hey, this is happening. And I just want to make sure it’s not going to like, cause any problems. And I’m like, no, everything’s fine. Thank you. Appreciate it. I never actually see her, but she always texts me and says that stuff.
00;07;45;10 – 00;08;03;28
Unknown
Stop it. I’m going to cry. It’s the respect to mutual relationship. Because we built interpersonal relationships. Skills that made that possible. Yeah. That’s it. Yup. That’s our nutshell right there. Because do you remember how distraught you were? And you were so you were in such a spot? I remember I was sitting on the floor in a hotel room texting.
00;08;03;28 – 00;08;29;07
Unknown
You were on the floor. I don’t know. Darnell was in the bathroom. Put his makeup on or something. Who the hell knows? And I’m sitting there, and I just remember saying two things. One, I remember saying, you’re having a triggered reaction to this. Why not? Not like why? Why? But, like, tell me more about that. Let’s dig. And then the second part was I would respond very similarly to that woman.
00;08;29;08 – 00;09;00;03
Unknown
So help me understand why that would be different. Right. And that really set the tone, hopefully for what then ended up being this like common peace conversation when she came downstairs and I remember saying, the first thing we do is we we make it like when she comes in like, hey, I’m your asshole neighbor from downstairs who’s not really an asshole, and that I remember that that’s what happened.
00;09;00;05 – 00;09;23;08
Unknown
She started it. She was like, hey, you know, I’m the jerk from upstairs. Nice to meet you. For real now. You know, nice to meet you for real the first time, right? I love that. That’s great. I specifically love that because I believe that having those types of conversations is the kindest thing you can do to a fellow human being.
00;09;23;11 – 00;09;46;08
Unknown
It might come across as difficult, and it’s temporary, right? Changes the trajectory. Right of everything. Do you feel like you’re in a stadium? Thank you for coming. You know, you hear those bills, bills? Bills for your money? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe. Tell Joey you should fix it. Maybe you got some tech problems. I mean, they’re not a big deal.
00;09;46;08 – 00;10;12;28
Unknown
It’s just it’s a very different experience than the normal. But. But I love that why that’s happening. But yeah, that’s really great. Changing the trajectory of a neighbor situation. So great. Just having an honest conversation about what did or did not work without it needing to be anyone’s fault. Yeah. Yeah. Narrative therapy. So problem is the problem. The person is not the problem.
00;10;13;01 – 00;10;45;12
Unknown
Focus on the problem. Let’s focus on the problem. Is the problem. Yeah. No person is not the problem. Yeah. But because of this podcast, I have learned to take a step outside of these situations and really try to think more. And I’ve always been an empathetic person. But to the extent where now I’m kind of more understanding somebody who has the mechanics of empathy and like, why you do that and why you would try to think and and stop just assuming it’s all the assumptions that we make.
00;10;45;13 – 00;11;05;18
Unknown
Oh, yeah. Like, you automatically assume you know the other person’s agenda or, you know, the reason why they’re saying all this stuff and you most of the time are dead wrong. Someone just yelled at me, why? Because he’s an asshole. No. Why? Because his mother just died, and, his kid got in a car accident all in five minutes.
00;11;05;20 – 00;11;27;01
Unknown
Right. Kind of shit happens. That’s right. That’s right. Now, people don’t realize that. That all those weird things that you say never happens. It happens all the time to people. And you’re like yeah. And we’ve seen the, the memes and stuff on Facebook or whatever that it says, that guy that just cut you off. You know, let him be or something because you don’t know what he’s going through.
00;11;27;02 – 00;11;47;06
Unknown
That’s right. Obviously I’m terribly paraphrasing. No, but I know what you. I guess that meme doesn’t make an impact. Yeah. You know what? It’s way too long. Let me make that right. Let me make. Yeah. Bye. Well. Thank you. Thank you. Scott. That’s so nice. So you. I’m trying to. I’ll come up with Rebecca has taught me, but,
00;11;47;09 – 00;12;06;23
Unknown
Oh. Just kidding. So for me, that was. That was all. That was all. It’s okay. It’s okay. It’s all right. I you know, I’m not the expert in empathy here. Clearly. Now, here. I would be really honest with you. I give Rebecca the hardest of her time. No one gives her Rebecca more of a hard time that I do.
00;12;06;24 – 00;12;29;01
Unknown
But I am not me without Rebecca. I mean that Daniel hurting me. It is. And it’s the tiniest little ways that you. That you see it. I know it’s the tiniest little ways that it comes out that Rebecca doesn’t get a lot of credit for much, not just in this relationship, but I just think in general in a lot of her relationships.
00;12;29;04 – 00;12;51;06
Unknown
And that’s something we’ve talked about so many times between the two of us. But people don’t often see her value or don’t always give her credit for her value. But it’s when that’s not present that you start to really feel this like, oh, right, so cool. Aaron’s cool on her own. Like to hear or what she’s gonna talk about.
00;12;51;06 – 00;13;16;24
Unknown
Rachel like. Also, it’s not as fun. It’s not as random. It’s not as like the perspective that she provides on these things. I shoot her down constantly about her perspective. But when I, I 100% of the time when I stop and actually try and listen to the essence of what she’s saying, not her actual words, I get in trouble there because I’m incredibly literal.
00;13;16;26 – 00;13;43;05
Unknown
If I listen to her actual words, then I’m just constantly, no, no, no, that’s stupid, that’s stupid. But if I can get below what she’s saying and understand the essence, it’s spot fucking on every single time. And it’s the perfect complement to to what I’m bringing to it. Right. And so that’s what she brings to the podcast. It’s just harder to see sometimes for it.
00;13;43;08 – 00;14;15;14
Unknown
But I think a lot of people who listen to this show just feel this endearing connection with Rebecca because she is who a lot of people are. But like, either don’t have the confidence to be or don’t know how to say it in that way or don’t feel comfortable being, you know, yeah, they’re they’re a little more reserved or buttoned up or oh, I can kind of see what she’s saying, but I don’t want to admit that out loud with, you know.
00;14;15;16 – 00;14;36;06
Unknown
Yeah. And and you can in some twisted way, you can learn to be more self assertive by watching what Rebecca does. Maybe not twisted but you know what I mean. You can learn that here on the podcast. Just not in real life. I mean because she podcast is all that matters. Real life. Yeah fine. That’s fine. Don’t come with her on real life because she is not assertive at all.
00;14;36;06 – 00;15;02;05
Unknown
She will get railroaded every single day. Someone she’ll be like, I’d like to charge $20 an hour. And they’re like, how about 750? She’s like, okay, all right, that’s fine. And will there be a whole lot of extra chaos in this job? That’s fine too. Yeah, that’s fine too. Which is a great segue into what we’re going to talk about today, which is a little more empathy with boundaries.
00;15;02;05 – 00;15;40;03
Unknown
Oh, and sort of trying to figure out where that line is of having an empathic, caring, caring for other people, seeing other people, but also knowing when it’s okay to assert yourself. And I think we as women really struggle a lot with knowing where that line is, how that line shifts. And then second guessing ourselves if we came off too strong or if we were, you know, we often know when we’ve gone too far in the empathy direction because we’re overburdened and we’re tired and we’re stressed and we’re annoyed and we’re all of those things.
00;15;40;05 – 00;16;00;05
Unknown
But when we go in the other direction, which is, you know, real strong boundaries, maybe quickly or more quickly than we would have thought, then we feel the guilt and the shame associated with that. So, like, where’s the part where you actually assert a boundary and feel good about it? Well, yeah, right. That’s a great question. I never feel good with boundaries.
00;16;00;10 – 00;16;21;22
Unknown
Yeah, I never I, I rarely find women who are like, I nailed that in terms of a boundary category. And I feel real great about that boundary. Right. And I don’t think this is something that stereotypically, I don’t think men struggle with as much. I think they set boundaries quicker. And then I think they just shut those guilt, shame, whatever, because they just justify it and move on.
00;16;21;27 – 00;16;42;27
Unknown
Right. I have a big problem with boundaries. And I’m not like in a weird creepy way, but just like in, in your like for instance, I would say we’ve become friends but you know you’re still my clients. You know what I mean? Like I work for you but it’s just, it’s weird because the and that happens with all of my clients.
00;16;42;27 – 00;17;11;22
Unknown
I, I become so, so close to them. That and it hasn’t happened here where I had to like I’m afraid to put my foot down because you’re stepping all over me. That that hasn’t happened in our situation. But it has happened in other cases where I’m like, I’m really letting this person take advantage of me because that boundary, that line between client and and proprietor or whatever has, has blurred and it’s become sort of a friend thing, you know, and I’m like, okay.
00;17;11;22 – 00;17;35;02
Unknown
Yeah, sorry. Yeah. All right. You can, you can go ahead and cancel today. That’s fine. Whereas if it were someone else, I would be like, well, no, you’ve blocked up my calendar for three weeks and I couldn’t book anyone there. So I need to charge you. But isn’t that interesting that what you’re essentially saying is they don’t have, it’s harder for me to have boundaries with friends than it is for me to have boundaries with clients.
00;17;35;02 – 00;18;00;28
Unknown
Why why is boundaries with friends an oxymoron? Right? Why is it that just because we’re friends with you, if you feel you’re getting taken advantage of, you might be less likely to bring that up because we’re in the friend zone instead of it being the opposite. Because I care about you as a friend, it’s important for me to set the boundary and I don’t think that experience you’re having, Scott, is at all unique.
00;18;00;28 – 00;18;27;03
Unknown
I think 99.9% of the world is like, oh, I can’t have that boundary with my mom because she’s my mom. Once you establish a quote really? Oh, I can’t have that. I can’t have boundary with my significant other because, right. Or with my best friend or my best colleague at work, that we always go to lunch together. Because now we’re friends, now we’re close, now we have a bond.
00;18;27;05 – 00;18;51;07
Unknown
Right? And but I’m not saying I do this 100% of the time, but my statement on that would be then it’s even more important to protect that relationship through boundaries. And maybe boundary doesn’t need to be a bad word if we really unpack what is boundaries. And that’s I’m hoping that that’s what we can can do today. So I know we’re a little out of practice here, but you need to start us off with some hippie vu.
00;18;51;07 – 00;19;12;26
Unknown
I don’t think so. No, I think this is the the end. Oh, you know what? They start an affirmation card. We can, we can’t. This, this this particular. Just so the audience knows, we always pick the cards prior to starting the session. Meaning like right before or after, right before the intro music starts is when the energy comes in.
00;19;12;27 – 00;19;27;29
Unknown
The card is picked. Nine times out of ten, I don’t even read it, but I happen to skip this one. Yeah, and this one feels more like an affirmation. And I’m not exactly sure what’s going to come out of this conversation, but it feels. The energy feels. And I got that. This is an end. I’ll sign off. Okay, I love it.
00;19;27;29 – 00;19;50;20
Unknown
Yeah. So then I’ll start you with an affirmation I am true to myself. I know that pure joy is the result of being in alignment with my soul. Interesting. Yeah, when we read, we read this one later. Oh, I love that so, so much. Okay, so let’s unpack boundaries a little bit. And if you would both indulge me a bit, I would love to give you, this through an example.
00;19;50;24 – 00;20;14;23
Unknown
Okay? Okay. Scott, you ready for this? I know you’ve been dying to know what’s been going on here, so where do I begin? What are we doing? I’m on a I’m on a flight. A flight, okay, I land, I check my phone like I always do, and I see that there is this show, this reality show. Oh, well, this is what you do.
00;20;14;25 – 00;20;45;24
Unknown
Okay, here’s this reality show on TV called The Blocks. And it’s basically Shark Tank meets, What? What was there, the apprentice? Thank you. Which Shark Tank meets the apprentice shows? Or at least that’s what I’m what they say they are. Let’s just say that. Yeah. And so, I, on a whim, fill out the application form. Doesn’t take very long to do it.
00;20;45;25 – 00;21;10;04
Unknown
It’s essentially a show where business entrepreneurs go on and they complete compete in a series of challenges. It’s the at the end when, I don’t know, 25 grand, some ten grand. Who the heck knows? Let’s clarify, it’s business related challenges. Yes. Eats and bugs. No no no no no, we’re not we’re not doing fear factor here. Yeah, Aaron’s not applying for that.
00;21;10;04 – 00;21;36;06
Unknown
I tell you that. Like marketing market your business and compare the marketing to. Yes. You have five minutes to put together a marketing campaign around this topic or whatever, and you’ve participated in a ridiculous amount of quote unquote education throughout the course of the week. And the education is, supposedly taught to you by coaches or people who are quote unquote successful entrepreneurs.
00;21;36;09 – 00;22;00;10
Unknown
Or this the guy who runs the show, his name is West. I can’t remember his last name. He was from east of the show, right? Yeah, he’s from the real world. One of them. Or go back when you and I were in high 90s. Yeah, yeah. So he’s irrelevant. Basically you’re saying. Yeah. Well, well. And that’s again asterisks foreshadowing.
00;22;00;13 – 00;22;22;24
Unknown
So I sign up for this and all of a sudden I get moved on to the next round, and the next round is where I need to complete three short videos that are less than two minutes apiece on three questions that pop up. So it’s one of those, like, interview platforms where it’s like, here’s the question, and you get three takes to answer it, right, and you have to answer it within a certain amount of time, and then it shuts you down.
00;22;22;27 – 00;22;47;08
Unknown
So I do the first one, submit my first take to the second one, submit my first take. I’m like, this is who I am. You get what you get, right, I submit it. Next thing you know, move on to the next round. And the next round is a phone interview for 45 minutes. Geez. So I get a message that says, congratulations, we are moving you on to the phone interview round.
00;22;47;15 – 00;23;06;19
Unknown
And I’m like, oh my God, Rebecca, this is so crazy. Well, I we might be able to be on the block. So she’s like, I’m absolutely coming on the blocks. I said, I know we’re going on together. I already got the price quote for both of us. Now, did you see this show before like you ever watch? No, not prior to her, learning about it.
00;23;06;25 – 00;23;24;21
Unknown
Yes. When she texted me, when she texted me and said, have you heard of this? I looked it up and then immediately went to Amazon and started to watch it. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So I’ve not heard of it before either. But then once I started applying for it, I went home and watch like 3 or 4 episodes, but it’s like 13 to 15 seasons.
00;23;24;25 – 00;23;47;18
Unknown
They’re on season 14 right now. Right. Mean those are some of the early seasons on the Amazon Prime? Yes, the early season. And I’m gonna be real honest with you, not super impressive. The content was pretty interesting, but the videography Scott was up iPhone quality if that best C, C or D quality is terrible. What have rolled over there?
00;23;47;22 – 00;24;06;28
Unknown
They’re filming clearly filming in a hotel banquet room like it’s it’s low budget. Yeah right. Low budget. But again, they were on season 14 at this point where the money amount was increasing. You don’t necessarily go on there for money. You go on there for the education and to be around these other people on what connections all the things.
00;24;06;28 – 00;24;29;13
Unknown
Yeah. So I get moved on to the interview stage and I end up having a 45 minute conversation with this woman named Maddie. And the conversation goes really well. She basically asks questions about what is your business, what is your business? Do? How do you help people? Where do you see yourself in the next five years? What is one area that your business needs to work on?
00;24;29;13 – 00;24;57;25
Unknown
What do you think you will take the most coming from the blocks? They said that they, do the filming at this hotel in Tulsa, Oklahoma called Osage. Is that right? The Osage, something like that. It’s like a hotel casino. Yes. Yeah, it’s like a hotel bar resort because they set that up. Yeah. And they were like, this is at a casino.
00;24;57;28 – 00;25;21;21
Unknown
Yeah. And bar establishment. Will that be a problem? Right. I said, it’s actually the opposite of a problem. That sounds fantastic, right? Sounds like in a dream. This is one week. You go for, for seven days to for them to do the filming of this. So I finished the conversation with this woman and she is like, I don’t usually say this to people, but I just love your personality.
00;25;21;21 – 00;25;41;05
Unknown
I love your business. I love what you’re doing. You’re the perfect person to have on this show. We’re reviewing all of this stuff on Sunday. You can expect to get an an offer a letter early next week. I immediately call Rebecca Freak out, we’re on the plane. Well, at that point, at that point, did you tell her about me?
00;25;41;08 – 00;26;01;08
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, because she texted me and said, let’s set up a call. I at that, when I got on the phone, I said, hey, I got my girlfriend waiting for me to give us a call for this interview so that it can be both of us. Do you want me to just loop her in? Right. And she was like, oh, I’ve never had that happen before, but, no, I think I’ll just meet with you first.
00;26;01;08 – 00;26;16;07
Unknown
And then if this goes well, you know, I’ll schedule time with her. So she says immediately, she’s going to schedule a time with you. And I say, well, good luck with that, because she’s a loose cannon. So if you think it was great talk to me. Wait till you talk to Rebecca. Right. And at the same time, I pitched Scott.
00;26;16;12 – 00;26;38;10
Unknown
All right. So I’m like, we got this guy. He does all this production work. He can come with us if you need additional support from production. Right. She’s like, we do. That’s awesome. So I said, great. I’ll send you Scott’s contact information. Right. I immediately contact Scott. I’m telling him about this opportunity. I’m like, I think I brought you on a gig.
00;26;38;10 – 00;27;19;05
Unknown
I was so excited. You know, whatever I go in, I put this on our calendar because the timing is perfect. And so, I put it on all three of our calendars. I am so excited about that. Can I can I jump in first? Yeah. When, when you told me about that, about that you you brought me into, you know, offered me up essentially to, to work on that, coming from a production background, what I saw in my mind was her saying, oh, that sounds great going, because whenever, whenever you doing something and the person that you’re talking to like, oh, I got a great person for you.
00;27;19;05 – 00;27;38;23
Unknown
Like, I got in production, specifically in production. If I’m talking to someone, they’re like, oh no, I got this guy who’s awesome and you’re like, okay, we got a team. We’re good. But you know what I mean? So in my mind I’m like, I don’t know if it’s legit, if she’s just blowing smoke up your ass or if they’re actually going to call em now.
00;27;38;27 – 00;28;05;11
Unknown
But I get that we had watched the early episodes. This podcast is a ten out of ten. Especially compared to those I sound. I mean, okay, the the Instagram Reels I do on my phone are a ten out of ten compared to what these people were putting out. Yeah, it’s pretty cool. So I’m like, I got a guy and you need a guy.
00;28;05;14 – 00;28;26;07
Unknown
And she was like, I’ll talk to our production guy. But she seemed incredibly excited because I’m be real honest with you, this is now going to come out to the other part of the story. They need all the help they can get. And they’re trying to make this into something. It’s a startup right. They’re trying to this, they carries a financial burden associated with it.
00;28;26;07 – 00;28;47;14
Unknown
So the contestants need to pay for the hotel, the their own flight. They need to pay for food. They need to pay for the instruction that they’re getting right. It’s essentially the cost of a normal conference for two people. That’s how we could justify it. You know, as a business expense. Plus, we thought that the marketing opportunities were going to be really great.
00;28;47;16 – 00;29;06;23
Unknown
Oh, you had to pay. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And, and, you, you had to pay. You basically had to pay for your ticket. But it also included, your access to these coaches. And in theory, if we as a, as a business, if you were to get access to any sort of business cost, you’d have to pay, like, yeah, a week long.
00;29;06;23 – 00;29;30;24
Unknown
We’re talking 9 to 9, right. You know, education instruction, ability to potentially when it’s like a boot camp. Yeah. You know, incubator program. It was an incubator program that happened to be filmed is really what it was. It wasn’t it wasn’t necessarily like. And so they did a little TV, a few people and select which ones they’ll allow to pay to be on this thing.
00;29;30;27 – 00;29;47;25
Unknown
Well yes. And that’s what they say. Yeah. Okay. That’s what they say. Okay. Right. And Rebecca had already known this because she already did her research and she was already like, I just want to let you know there’s going to be a cost associated with this. And then consider that when you’re considering all things. Yeah. And we were fine with that.
00;29;47;25 – 00;30;03;15
Unknown
And I talked to my financial advisor and we were we were we were good to go. Now that she did, the person that you did the interview with, did she say this right up front? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. She told every single thing this is how much it would cost. We have payment plans available. If you need that.
00;30;03;15 – 00;30;20;10
Unknown
Will it be a problem for you to be able to. Yeah. Because immediately there is if you if you say, oh, I didn’t realize that they’ll just take you off the list and pick somebody else, right. Yeah. Yeah. They’re very upfront. They asked if we had any drug and alcohol problems without asking that to determine whether or not it was okay for us to be in that environment.
00;30;20;11 – 00;30;48;10
Unknown
I mean, problem. Right? Right. As drug alcohol gambling problem. Right. Because we’re going to be in that type of environment. She must ask that question three times. Right. Leads me to believe that they had some sort of situation in the past, no doubt. And then they probably kind of cut that shit out of the filming. Like, I’m sure I’m sure they’ve seen a lot of, you know, so I get an email that basically says, congratulations, you’ve been selected.
00;30;48;13 – 00;31;07;28
Unknown
I’m freaking out. I contact Rebecca, I’m like, yes, we did it for going to Tulsa. No, I never I never talked to her because when her and I were texting, she got up in a meeting. Yeah. And I said, I can’t, I can’t do it. I’m on vacation. However, here’s our link to our podcast if you want to see the two of us together.
00;31;07;28 – 00;31;27;08
Unknown
Yeah. And that’s kind of how we left. Yes. Yeah. So I get the congratulations. You know, here’s your contract. Here’s the information about being on the show. I tell a couple people, oh my God, this is so great, Mark. So excited. I tell Ryan Ryan’s like, oh my God, this is so crazy. I can’t believe you’re going to be out on a frickin reality TV show.
00;31;27;08 – 00;31;49;23
Unknown
I’m like, hey there. And then I’m freaking out to Rebecca. I’m like, who gets to say that they got a reality TV show with their best friend? This is such a cool part of our story. Like how fun, right? So then a few days after the congratulations email, I get an email from this woman named Ruth. Now hold on, I happened to email my boss.
00;31;49;26 – 00;32;09;05
Unknown
Yeah, because I realize on the calendar there is a potential conflict and I might have to be in person to a really important team event that I don’t want to miss, but I’m not confirmed on those dates. So I send this whole long email to my boss saying, my best friend got this opportunity. I want to go with her, we support each other, yada yada yada.
00;32;09;06 – 00;32;27;22
Unknown
Like all I outlined the longest email ever yesterday. I was just like, it’s like flowery and beautiful. All fully understand if you’re, you know, blah blah blah blah blah like all the things. But would you please consider letting me participate in this blah blah blah blah. Send it. Yeah, send no response yet. Not yet. Right at this moment.
00;32;27;23 – 00;32;45;15
Unknown
And and then at this point, I get an email from this woman named Ruth. I’m not going to read you the whole I’m just going to read you the hot spots. So, hey, I wanted to reach out and a little more personal of a way than I did with the congratulatory email went out. I’ve met some of you over the phone, but most of you are strangers to me.
00;32;45;15 – 00;33;07;19
Unknown
But not for too much longer. I’m the onboarding specialist at the blocks. My job is to help you navigate this important step. Now this next paragraph is critical, so if not, listen to anything that I’ve said. Tune in right now. Okay? I’m writing to make sure you are welcome and encouraged to email me with comments, questions, and concerns.
00;33;07;21 – 00;33;40;23
Unknown
I’m aware that this is an unusual opportunity. It’s not inexpensive and is a notable investment in time. So please, please, please write me with bullet points about anything I can help you gain clarity on so we can get your homework done as soon as feasible, and then move on to the next fun steps. Okay, great. So because I’m not an idiot, I then take the contract and I send it to our business attorney and I say, here you go.
00;33;40;26 – 00;34;05;02
Unknown
Please look at this. Now, this isn’t a paragraph contract. This is a 15 page contract. Oh yeah. This is a oh, this is a 13. It’s a 13. It’s a 12, 13 out of 15, 13 out of 15 page contract. That’s what it says at the bottom 13 page 13 out of 15. Okay. That’s how many pages are in the contract.
00;34;05;04 – 00;34;26;28
Unknown
Was there as it missing two pages. It was two pages over. Oh no was two pages I’m sorry, 15, 13 out of 13. That’s what we meant to say. Yes. This is page 15 out of 13. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry, sorry. That was just the beginning. Yeah. So our legal counsel goes and reviews. It basically calls me and says, this is absolute trash.
00;34;26;28 – 00;34;45;10
Unknown
I’ve never seen a contract this bad in my entire life. I have gone through and highlighted a bunch of things you need to be aware of. But there is no way I can fix this contract in a way that makes me feel comfortable for your safety to go on this trip. Oh my God, that is not something. And I’m like a lawyer.
00;34;45;17 – 00;35;07;10
Unknown
Oh, what? What? She’s just overreacting because she’s a lawyer. She’s fine. I’m going to go in and I’m going to look at it. Right. And so I go through and I look at her comments and I write what I think is a nice e-mail back to Ruth with bullet points, because that was what was requested of me. Okay.
00;35;07;13 – 00;35;34;29
Unknown
So I say, hi, Ruth, we do have some questions and concerns regarding the contract. First of all, my first bullet point is who is Cassie Krieger? And then I indicate in their competition and subjectivity part three, which was the part of the contract, so she could go back into the contract because it had just said you could be kicked off the show at any time if Wes or Cassie Krieger determined that you should be kicked off.
00;35;34;29 – 00;36;08;24
Unknown
So I’m like, Who is Cassie? But like, we knew who West was. She’s going to kick me off. Like, who? Who is she? Got it. Got her? No she is. We get shot around her. My second bullet point. We’re not overly thrilled with the reviews that we’ve seen about Osage, including those I’ve included below. And we would like to have an amendment to the contract that indicates that if we do not find the living conditions to be suitable, that we have the ability to go elsewhere, so long as we are back at the hotel and ready for production as required, we’re happy to have our legal team write up this amendment.
00;36;08;24 – 00;36;32;21
Unknown
Now in the contract it specified over and over again, you are required to stay at this hotel. And so I said as a meeting planner, as an event planner, I said to Aaron, my guess is they are saying this because they are on the hook to pay for these rooms. And I said to her, I guarantee you, if you say to her, we’re happy we’re paying the contract, we’re paying the entry fee.
00;36;32;21 – 00;36;56;07
Unknown
But if we don’t want to stay there, we’re not staying there. And her lawyer, Aaron Lawyer, had sent her all these reviews. Here’s some of the reviews. This is the Osage Nation. Police seize firearms, ammunition and 200g of meth at casino. Man arrested after shooting in parking lot of Tulsa. Osage casino. Citizen saves officer by killing suspect in Osage casino parking lot.
00;36;56;07 – 00;37;13;00
Unknown
Oh my God, that’s just a parking lot. Here’s here’s your review. This TripAdvisor review. This is one of the worst hotels I have ever been at with my family. There were fights in the hallway all night. The room had food on the walls. There was even a guy puking on our porch. The hotel did nothing to fix the situation.
00;37;13;00 – 00;37;34;11
Unknown
Do not waste your money. Horrible room. Blot on the comforter. Worst a dirty room experience I’ve ever had. Our desk. Our room was covered in dust and not clean at all. There was a shower cap on the smoke alarm. Cigaret holes in the batting. Jesus. Now, now we all know the stories of how when I booked rooms and Aaron’s like, fuck no, no, no.
00;37;34;11 – 00;37;59;11
Unknown
Now, listen, I’m bougie as they come and it comes to my my living conditions, I if I walked in there and it smelled, it did the tiniest tinge of smoke. I’m out of there. If I see one drop of blood from a pinprick figure finger out of there. If she sees any, sheets or decor. That’s not 2 a.m. my standing and above she wi out.
00;37;59;14 – 00;38;18;07
Unknown
That’s right. If I don’t like the tile on your backsplash. Oh. Gotta go, gotta go. Your shower head looks like it is more than three years old, right? Gone. If we walk into the lobby and there’s a fake statue of a man holding. Oh, yes. Yeah. Got a gun? If there is a refrigerator full of flower bouquets. Yeah.
00;38;18;11 – 00;38;35;28
Unknown
Gotta go. If your elevator doesn’t take me to the correct floor the first time and that thing is shaking like a leaf on a tree gone. Okay, I want to, I know, not sure if we’re as clear as possible here. Clear. But I’m as bougie as they come. It is four and a half star. Plus or I ain’t staying there.
00;38;36;00 – 00;39;02;00
Unknown
Okay, now I’ll pay your contract, but I’m staying forever. Where else? If I don’t feel comfortable or safe or whatever. So these are the reviews and she’s paying for it, so I’ll just go wherever she. Right, right. So I, I include that part as a bullet point. Right. I then say, what is the level of success that qualifies someone to be a mentor for the program?
00;39;02;03 – 00;39;29;23
Unknown
My next bullet. What qualifies West to be a primary coach of the blocks? And then my other questions are just essentially like, when’s it going to air? And those types of things, okay, I think those are completely appropriate questions. After a reading this contract put together by a 15 year old that basically says you don’t get your money back no matter what, we can kick you out for any reason whatsoever and you don’t have any say in it.
00;39;29;25 – 00;39;50;20
Unknown
You we can cancel, we can cancel and you won’t get your money back yet there. And we can say, oh, the show’s not doing it anymore and you don’t get your money back. You will be charged a $1,500 rebooking fee if you go on a different season, even if it’s our fault rate, you’re going on a different season, right?
00;39;50;23 – 00;40;21;03
Unknown
I mean, page 15 out of 13 was real clear right there. No amendments. Yes, there. No mandatory contract. Okay. So this is where the part about empathy with boundaries starts to come in. So I get this response from Ruth and then let me tell you, I sent the first 1st August 27th at 8:55 a.m.. She wrote a response August 27th at 8:05 p.m..
00;40;21;03 – 00;40;53;01
Unknown
Okay, so okay, so got right back to 12 hours. Well, I mean, whatever day, right? Same day. That’s that’s pretty fast in my mind. Here’s the response. Hi, Erin, I spoke to Kathy about your question. Still don’t know who Kassius, but glad we talked to her about your concerns today. She is. Wes is CEO of Beta Blocks and helps produce and direct this entire event was founded this company 14 years ago and has a masters in Entrepreneurial Ship Education.
00;40;53;04 – 00;41;20;18
Unknown
Side note please tell me where that’s from and listen. Please tell me where that degree is from. I’d like to maybe just do a quick class check on entrepreneurial ship education class A Thursday. Yeah, it’s Trump University. He has written and developed all of his curriculum, his company services and this show. Exclamation point. We don’t allow cast members to stay off property or make amendments to the contract.
00;41;20;18 – 00;41;43;09
Unknown
So unfortunately, if that’s going to be an issue, we will have to rescind the invitation for you to attend. Also, we’re filmed at the Osage eight times this year. It had an overall positive experience. Every time. The Osage location we are staying at is rated an 8.5 out of ten, and we have never experienced anything like you’re calling out.
00;41;43;12 – 00;42;12;14
Unknown
I understand problems like the ones you’ve listed below can happen in any hotel or resort or any major city, unfortunately, and I’m not saying they did not, but we have not encountered anything like that. Respectfully, we thank you for your interest in our program, but we feel we should decline your invitation due to your request to amend our contract, stay somewhere else, as well as your concern about what qualifies West and the coaches he brings in to educate and mentor you.
00;42;12;15 – 00;42;39;12
Unknown
I mean asking questions. You’re out. Thanks for your questions and concerns. We wish you success in your business always. Okay, I get that. I get that e-mail while I fall in the target and do do do do do do do I hear a sucker right on the horn? I go, well we’re out because florets showered it. She’s like, what are you talking about?
00;42;39;12 – 00;42;59;16
Unknown
Like we’re on the blocks or out of the blocks now. Her first concern oh no, I just sent this email. My boss is here to see my boss. I can’t go reading that. I gotta go take that back. Oh, right. Right. But she can tell in that moment. That’s not the time to say it, because I, I am, I am both I’m sad for a minute.
00;42;59;18 – 00;43;25;15
Unknown
I’m confused for a minute, and then I get angry. Right? So my sadness was, oh my God, I was so excited about this. Maybe there’s a way this can still be salvage salvaged. I want to say that was, six seconds. Okay, okay. Okay. Then shortly after that, I felt the shame and guilt of being neurodivergent and, like, maybe my email was too pointed.
00;43;25;15 – 00;43;46;18
Unknown
So maybe I was. Maybe I can sometimes have a tendency to come off as like, here’s the question, here’s the question. Here’s the question. Like, I’m not going to spend some flowery language making sure I’m like, what qualifies West? What qualifies the business coach? Maybe she read it right in that way. I end up saying that out loud to Rebecca, and her first response is, oh hell no.
00;43;46;20 – 00;44;10;11
Unknown
Ran. No, that is not what’s happening right here. That is not what’s going on. Your email was completely appropriate. And so that one was about, four seconds and then the anger hit. And here I am. No I specifically said she goes I’m gonna write right back. And I said you’re not doing anything tonight. I said you listen to me, you’re doing absolutely nothing.
00;44;10;11 – 00;44;27;17
Unknown
In fact if you do choose to write it you’re not going to send it. We’re going to we’re going to talk through it tomorrow morning and you say, okay, okay, okay. And you say, I gotta go because I gotta get my I had to do something my whatever in the, in the crock pot or something, I don’t know, I had to do something to do something I don’t I probably would, hadn’t made dinner.
00;44;27;17 – 00;44;46;13
Unknown
You did do a good job talking me through. No, no, this is not you know. You know, I think we dodged a bullet here. I think maybe this, you know, wasn’t the best opportunity for us. You know, I start to do my own internalizing, so I start to say, you know, this is when when someone’s asking reasonable questions.
00;44;46;13 – 00;45;13;03
Unknown
If you can’t give reasonable answers back, it’s because you were shame. That’s the only reason you can’t give these reasons back. Right? So she processes this with me. And of course I mentally write the email in target. I’m surprised you weren’t voice knowing. I know yelling while I’m walking down the freezer section getting whatever you’re getting, grabbing some pierogies, throwing them in the carton like so Ruth that’s right.
00;45;13;05 – 00;45;31;14
Unknown
So I’m mentally right in this whole thing and I get it I got it I am so I am fired up. I am so ready. I get home, I text Mark, I say, I’m in the garage, can you please get the stuff out of the trunk? I got go write an email and at this point I had said, we’re off.
00;45;31;14 – 00;45;48;23
Unknown
We’re off the blocks. He’s like, what do you mean? Because he’s all excited? So he comes out into the garage and I said, I gotta go write an email. He’s like, what is going on? And I said, I will tell you in a minute, I just need to write this email because it’s fire right now. It is so good.
00;45;48;23 – 00;46;10;18
Unknown
And I need to make sure that I that I have it and I just send it. Then I’ll come out and help you get whatever notice. She says, send it. I said, don’t do anything until you read it to me. So that was what did I say? It was only I said, it doesn’t look right. So Ruth sends that at 8:05 a.m. 856 he sends she sends an email.
00;46;10;22 – 00;46;31;25
Unknown
This is what I when I say you wait, you’re you’re ready for this. Scott. This is. But I don’t see it till the next morning, so. But I back Rebecca into it. Right. The lawyer into it. My financial advisor into it. Right. Ryan troop into it because I told him we were going to build the blocks. So I made sure I went there up in the morning to this email.
00;46;31;27 – 00;46;57;15
Unknown
This is what I wake up to. Hi, Ruth, thank you for your passive aggressive email. I. It confirm for me what I already suspected that the blocks is a low rate reality TV show that lacks the funding and expertise to be successful and preys on unsuspecting, new to be entrepreneur entrepreneurs looking for their chance to get on TV.
00;46;57;17 – 00;47;24;27
Unknown
If you had a successful program, you and Cassie would have read my email as a way of seeking clarity about my company’s financial investment in this opportunity. Instead, you got defensive. Your seemingly shocked response to me asking questions about your contract in parentheses, questions you encouraged in your initial email is also telltale. As such, I suggest that you amend your welcome email to incoming participants below to read as follows.
00;47;25;01 – 00;47;48;26
Unknown
Quote. I’m writing to make sure you are welcome and encouraged to email me with questions, concerns, and questions and comments. I’m aware that this is an unusual opportunity. It’s not inexpensive and is a notable investment in time. So please, please, please write me with bullet points about anything I can help you gain clarity on so we can get your homework done as soon as feasible, and then move on to the next fun steps.
00;47;49;02 – 00;48;12;02
Unknown
Please note, however, if you do send me comments, questions or concerns, we will swiftly decline your invitation to participate because we do not like entrepreneurs getting too close to the truth of what we’re truly offering here. And quote, I love it. Oh, and you might also consider amending the last two page numbers on your contract. 13 of 12 and 14 of 12 are impossibilities.
00;48;12;03 – 00;48;53;05
Unknown
Good day. And no really. Best of luck to you, Aaron. Oh God, oh my God. So I wake up to this and I wish I could hear like Peter read that, but I can never get a response. Guys, I know you’re surprised Ken dying and not fire. Absolute fire. I never got a response. I then swiftly removed my name and email address from anything associated with this hack job, quote unquote reality TV show, because now I’m like, I don’t want to touch this with a ten foot pole.
00;48;53;05 – 00;49;15;22
Unknown
Y’all are scammers not okay? Yeah, I know, and it’s funny because as soon as she had called me and said our offer was rescinded, I then replied to my boss with huge update in the in the in the subject and I said so we sent, we got the contract and we ask some questions and they it’s just not going to work out.
00;49;15;24 – 00;49;21;05
Unknown
So like that. And he writes back, oh, that’s too bad.
00;49;21;07 – 00;49;45;03
Unknown
This incredibly long flowery, well, he’s just like, okay, thanks for letting me know. All right. Okay. I got to tell you, this is this is, heartbreaking. I know all these people. I mean, which part which part is heartbreaking are many different levels of heartbreak to this story? Yeah. The, the, the most, at least from a selfish point of view.
00;49;45;05 – 00;50;08;19
Unknown
I was really excited about having you guys in some sort of forum that put you and the podcast in front of an audience that could, you know, grab on to what we’re doing and be like, you know, even even if, even if it had modest rate of modest following, I know people would be like, we have to listen to their podcast.
00;50;08;19 – 00;50;31;21
Unknown
They’re amazing. Right? And we were also very clear that it would end up being The Rebecca and Aaron Show. And everybody else was going to be terrible. Yeah. So but they, they saw they saw you as a, as a definite problem 100%. You guys were definitely going to be a problem because because you don’t need them. No, you don’t need that.
00;50;31;21 – 00;50;52;06
Unknown
It was something cool. And you’re not like some people would sell out their family to be on TV. That’s right, that’s right. You know, and then they can be taken advantage of because of that. Exactly. And it really the fact that Amazon allows this to happen is shocking to me. Well, it’s not free. You have to pay for it.
00;50;52;09 – 00;51;10;11
Unknown
But it’s a show on Amazon, right. That you have to pay for. You have to you have even ascribed to the show. No, you have to per per season, per season. So it’s not even if you are a Prime membership. So they are selling it Amazon sells it. Not okay I got you. So it’s not it’s not a show that’s produced by Amazon.
00;51;10;11 – 00;51;33;02
Unknown
It’s not they you can just watch it on Amazon. Correct. Okay. All right. Well that and probably some other platforms that. Yeah. Well that that actually makes more sense to me. And now see in my mind it was an Amazon show. Right. And so I was, I was blown away by like, how could Amazon even remote Lee stand behind this.
00;51;33;02 – 00;51;54;18
Unknown
There’s no way. Because no, it says that it’s a contract to like if you’re going to be talking about it in any way, shape or form, you have to say something like, as seen as available on Amazon Prime or whatever, something like you couldn’t use the term Amazon and then you couldn’t use like it was very clear on if you were going to promote it.
00;51;54;18 – 00;52;17;14
Unknown
Oh, how it was that you were gonna talk about it. Right. Wow. And when you look up this West guy, he’s like mega douche. Mega douche personality. Oh Mark had to say what was he really. Where’s his heart. Right on his sleeve. He gets real upset when you know relationships don’t work out or whatever from his time on road rules or whatever.
00;52;17;14 – 00;52;40;02
Unknown
He’s he’s he’s super douche. I would really like to, try to find some former contestants of the blocks and get there, so I did. I went down a rabbit hole. Did you? I went down rabbit hole of, Reddit. And because I was, I wanted to get proof that it was a scam and I couldn’t find any quote unquote scam type things.
00;52;40;05 – 00;53;04;01
Unknown
But it definitely was not an environment. You and I would have been excited about. It was it’s the type of people who want validation, want the community, have no idea what they’re doing with their business. A lot of it is just side gig type of stuff. And then I went to some of their Instagram, so there was nothing necessarily negative about it.
00;53;04;01 – 00;53;37;01
Unknown
It just was very, very, very beginner type. But I want people I want to meet and, and talk to the kind of person who thinks that that contract was okay. That’s that’s was my question a contract that if you read it you would die first three sentences. That’s like absolutely not. That was my concern. And that’s why in that message back I said you know, you are scamming newbie entrepreneurs who want an opportunity to be on TV.
00;53;37;01 – 00;54;07;00
Unknown
Many of them probably just hoping to get some notoriety for their business to have, like, you know, Tori, it’s, not it’s not. Okay. And that’s where the the boundary piece comes in for me. So the important part of this discussion for me is it was okay to feel that sense of sadness. It’s okay. I had the same reaction you did, Scott, where I, I, I wanted to bargain with.
00;54;07;00 – 00;54;25;02
Unknown
Well, could I just change this about the contract or that about the contract? Right. Or will are they really saying something that is of value and am I just missing it? Those are all very empathic responses. Am I just not understanding from their point of view where they’re coming from? I’ve never been on a reality TV show before.
00;54;25;02 – 00;54;49;07
Unknown
I have never, you know, had to deal with this number of people who probably do take advantage of situations, right? I, I was really trying to give the benefit of the doubt, and I found that you’re more likely to give the benefit of the doubt when it’s something you really want, and when you’re willing to overlook things, when it’s something that you really want, right, has a different than an a relationship, you know what this reminds me of?
00;54;49;09 – 00;55;12;19
Unknown
When I was 18, 19 years old, I had a band and, oh, you told the story of the guy who convinced you? Yeah. Yeah, this is exact. This is. So. I wanted that to happen so badly that I completely overlooked all the red flags and everything that. That said, this guy’s a he’s totally a piece. Yeah, he’s totally, like, turn.
00;55;12;22 – 00;55;31;25
Unknown
And it’s. I don’t know if he was actually, I can’t imagine there was anything for him to gain, except that he was making himself seem more important than he actually was. Because he wasn’t. He never asked us for money or anything like that. But maybe that was, you know, that was down the line. Who knows?
00;55;31;27 – 00;55;56;28
Unknown
Yeah. It’s terrible. And so that part is a really normal part of empathy. And that’s what happens when you’re an empathic person and you want something in you care, is that you are constantly trying to see even in that really shitty contract. I was trying to understand their point of view. So two things are important to me. They’re one, you surround yourself with people who don’t have the emotional attachment that you do to the situation, right?
00;55;56;28 – 00;56;28;09
Unknown
In this case, it was my attorney. And then take what they have to say also empathically, right? So I, I second guessed that feedback a lot because I didn’t know the motive or where it was coming from. Is she just trying to protect me? Is there any feelings of, you know. Being disappointed that, she’s not also going to be on the show?
00;56;28;09 – 00;56;47;01
Unknown
You know, that’s for sure now. Right? But, I didn’t I had to assess that. I had to determine, like, because she’s also a business owner herself. Right. Is there fear that people have of being on a reality TV show? Is it all protection, like everyone comes to every conversation with their backpack on that’s full of their own experiences, right.
00;56;47;03 – 00;57;12;28
Unknown
So the part I want to really emphasize about empathy is it’s okay to look at a situation that doesn’t feel right on the surface and still have empathy for that, right to still second guess that. And that’s exactly what I did. I felt sad about it. And then I felt shame and guilt that maybe I had caused the reaction that I initial reaction I got from Ruth.
00;57;13;00 – 00;57;38;04
Unknown
So there were some trigger words in that email. One was, we’ve never had experiences that you’re calling out. The term calling out for me was a trigger because I’m like, yeah, I don’t I don’t. Calling out to me means I’m putting you on blast that, this, this, this and this. And I wasn’t doing that. I was literally copying and pasting the reviews that were from the site.
00;57;38;10 – 00;57;59;17
Unknown
Well, let’s be really clear. You never would have looked up reviews of that hotel. Nonetheless, Morgan put it there. Here’s the reason I’m concerned about what this state’s in the contract. Yes. And here’s the here’s the reasons. Yes. I want you to review them and be aware. Yes, of what you’re entering into. She even said here’s one positive review.
00;57;59;18 – 00;58;29;26
Unknown
Right. There are fewer and far between. But here’s a couple positive reviews that are in here, right from from more recently. Right. So you have the empathy, the response. You have the sadness response. You have the bargaining response of like, oh, how can I still make this work? But then when the boundary comes in, what happened for me, the I remember the trigger of the boundary being set was, is it okay for you to ask questions?
00;58;29;26 – 00;58;51;04
Unknown
This is me asking myself. The answer is yes. What do you know about people who respond to questions in this way? The answer is they’re hiding something. It was that linear of an equation for me, and that’s what gave me permission, if you will, to say it’s okay for me to set a boundary the minute I said that out loud, it felt like unfairness.
00;58;51;05 – 00;59;13;06
Unknown
Here’s where my neurodivergent comes into play again. Right? Because it’s not fair for me to ask you a question and for you to have that type of response. I struggle with this my whole life. I ask a ridiculous number of questions. I don’t come from that same place of passive aggressiveness and like asking a question within my question and asking a convoluted question.
00;59;13;06 – 00;59;31;13
Unknown
But in fact, I hate when people do that. I say constantly, are you asking a question or making a statement? So are you going to do the dishes today? Is that a real question, or are you making a statement? Do you mean to be saying to me, the dishes have been sitting in the sink for two weeks, and I’d really appreciate it if you did it, which one?
00;59;31;13 – 00;59;56;24
Unknown
Because I prefer the statements. Don’t try and communicate with me in this fake ass. I’m going to ask a question way, but it’s not really a question I can’t read between those lines and then I’m annoyed. And that happened a lot during my childhood. There were constant questions that weren’t questions everyone knew the answer. We just weren’t going to say what that answer was out loud, right?
00;59;56;26 – 01;00;20;28
Unknown
So that’s a big trigger for me. So here I am asking what I feel are reasonable questions. And they were needed. You could confirm for me that they were reasonable at that point. My boundary is set, I’m completely clear and I don’t go back on that. So for me that boundary line is have I been able to make logical sense out of an emotional situation?
01;00;21;01 – 01;00;42;24
Unknown
And then do I feel justified at the end of the day with what my reaction is going to be? If that formula all comes together, that’s when I can successfully set a boundary. I say successfully, that might not be the right word. I’m really clear about setting those boundaries almost to the point where I’m incredibly stubborn and won’t go back on it.
01;00;42;26 – 01;01;02;16
Unknown
So I knew if Ruth wrote back I was not going to read the email, I was just going to to move it into my blocks folder that I had started. Why? Because if anything ever came up, legally or otherwise, I wanted to make sure I had that response, but I was going to refuse to read it. I that was clear to me.
01;01;02;16 – 01;01;26;01
Unknown
Nothing was going to make me change my mind. Right. If I go and set a boundary on something and I’m very clear with you about something, I’m not, I’m not going back on that. I’m not someone who’s wishy washy. If I say I’m not going to talk to my neighbor anymore because I can justify the fact that this, this and this happened, I’m not talking to the neighbor again.
01;01;26;06 – 01;01;50;18
Unknown
Right. That part is my question about do you find in your own boundary setting, both of you, for that is the same process that you go through, or is it more wishy washy? Oh, wishy washy for sure, because I’m terrible of boundaries. Okay. Yeah. How do you know when to set a boundary? I don’t you don’t I that’s not your feeling.
01;01;50;18 – 01;02;09;27
Unknown
I know when to do it. I don’t know how to do it effectively and maintain it. So will you set the boundary or because, you know you should be setting a boundary but don’t know how to set it? Will you just not set it? I will not set it or I will attempt to set it and it doesn’t feel good.
01;02;09;27 – 01;02;34;01
Unknown
And I don’t like all the feelings and the emotional baggage that comes with that. So I either just avoid it or, disengage. I think that’s so common. What about you, Scott? I am I always seem to make the mistake of, kind of like burying my head in the sand and just hoping that the boundary is going to establish itself.
01;02;34;03 – 01;02;55;25
Unknown
And kind of walk that line and be like. But lately I’ve been, I’ve been getting better at actually just thinking about it beforehand when I make, when I make a new acquaintance, I think to myself, what are my boundaries here, how I make for every interaction I try to think about what am I, how am I going to respond and why?
01;02;55;28 – 01;03;18;01
Unknown
And I’ve learned that from this podcast. I tell you guys all the time, I have a no for 48 rule. That’s one of the things that I do to set my boundary is I’m not always great about setting those boundaries. And so I’ll just say yes to everything. And one of the ways that I’ve combated that is by saying, I say no for 48 hours.
01;03;18;01 – 01;03;34;08
Unknown
And if at the end of 48 hours, I still feel very strongly that I should be on the PTA, or I should go and write back to Ruth, or I should, you know, whatever. Ruth’s a bad example. I found that one real quick. That I will go back and I will entertain that or I will, I will do that.
01;03;34;08 – 01;03;58;28
Unknown
But I have to give myself a natural 48 hour pause, be cut, a pause, the pause. Look at my pauses, 48 hour pause, pause, pause. Everybody’s got to pause. Yeah. In order to give myself that natural stopping point. Right. Or thought process time to time to, really see how I feel about it. What is that called debris for?
01;03;59;00 – 01;04;20;12
Unknown
Yeah. Or picking a process or. Yeah. Here’s it. Here’s a good, I’m going to cross over a boundary and say it’s time to end the fucking podcast. I was very clear. I appreciate that you ended it there. There were kinder ways to do that, that we could talk about it in the future. And, he, he does he he flashes the legacy thing.
01;04;20;12 – 01;04;36;00
Unknown
And you still don’t get it. When did you say no? He didn’t do it this time. I haven’t done that in forever. No, but I say when you do that guide. She thinks. She thinks that’s a glitch. And I think I think you say. And I might say you didn’t screw it up. I’m. No, no, I maybe if we established a boundary in it.
01;04;36;07 – 01;04;55;25
Unknown
Oh my God, I can’t, I can’t, but that’s terribly rude. Which one when I, when I turn when I do this the legacy. Yeah. No, that’s rude at all. What. Which one. What. Which one was more rude. It’s time to stop the fucking podcast or the the legacy. Which one is. Which one was more wrote yeah, I got Laura back.
01;04;55;25 – 01;05;16;20
Unknown
I’m sorry, but we don’t have time for your hippie bullshit shit because Scott hippie Scott just do the hippie though. You can. You can still end the podcast properly. Just do the wrap it up now. Okay, so our card today is the star, which I know we’ve had before. And it says, and I don’t know if this is going to actually relate now or not, because I had no idea what we were going to talk about.
01;05;16;20 – 01;05;37;24
Unknown
But it says like the OG version of Hashtag Blast, this card unleashes a meteor shower of celestial gifts and restores your glowing faith in the universe. Shake hands with magic and let let it mainline some prescription grade warm and fuzzy straight into your crown chakra. You’ll remember what a radiant star you are and won’t stand for anyone trying to dim that light.
01;05;37;24 – 01;06;02;26
Unknown
Now go find your car keys so you can head out and shine bright. Now let you dim my lights I love you. Look at the black sheep on I loved that. Me too. Isn’t empathy amazing? Well we’re amazing. I don’t know about all that sympathy stuff. That’s fine. I accept you wherever you are. Oh, God, I love you.
01;06;02;28 – 01;06;25;08
Unknown
I love you too. And if you love us, please like and subscribe to more. Love the Power of Empathy podcast wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.
Unknown
I am true to myself. I know that pure joy is the result of being in alignment with my soul. Interesting. Yeah. When we read, we read this one later of that. So so much. Okay, so let’s unpack boundaries a little bit. And if you would both indulge me a bit, I would love to give you a list through an example.
00;00;20;20 – 00;00;37;01
Unknown
Okay okay. Scott, you ready for this? I know you’ve been dying to know what’s been going on here. So.
00;00;37;03 – 00;00;59;12
Unknown
It doesn’t. They? Hey, it’s me. Erin. Thanks for joining us on the More Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside. But the truth is, she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Oh, here she comes. Hey, bestie. Hi, love.
00;00;59;12 – 00;01;20;21
Unknown
What are you doing? Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast about what? Our life, our life as best friends who are more like sisters. Yay! I love us, and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world, especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right to be our most authentic selves. Oh, man.
00;01;20;24 – 00;01;43;28
Unknown
Okay. We’re back. We’re back. Well, I don’t know when we were gone, but we feel like we’re back. I know, I know. It’s so funny. We took a little. We wasn’t even taking a hiatus. Just got a little busy. Well, I know, a little bit. End of the summer. Nuts. We went from nakedness to full on sweater. It’s basically winter.
00;01;44;00 – 00;02;03;11
Unknown
But what happened as soon as I sat down in this podcast chair, is I legit reached over my right shoulder to put my seat belt on, like I was sitting in a chair in the car. Buckle up. And I always thought, oh, maybe that is just, you know, foreshadowing to see the shirt I have. I do, yes. Listen to me.
00;02;03;12 – 00;02;22;18
Unknown
Oh come on, Scott, Rebecca’s been taken inventory of how often you wear that shirt, what day it is when you wear that. Fucked up. I absolutely thought that when I walked in today, I thought, you know, he hasn’t won that shirt in a while. Yeah. You do. You are literally. Oh, I know you read me. I know, but you’ve also you’ve been taken inventory every time you come in here.
00;02;22;19 – 00;02;38;07
Unknown
I got a little iron shirt. Well not fair. Well, lost a couple of pounds, so now this feels better. Congratulations. You know who’s not going to lose weight if I sit next to this cookie, smile much longer. You got this. This is not okay. I’m waiting for the cookies to come in. Susan, that one of the tacos, so.
00;02;38;07 – 00;02;55;26
Unknown
Oh, no no, no no, Taco. I don’t like your smell. Thanks. No no, no. Yeah, the liver and onions. One doesn’t know. It’s not doing it. It’s not doing it. That’s not okay. You. Scott. Why don’t we take the next ten minutes and you tell us how much you missed us? Yeah. Yes, please. Can you tell us what we do?
00;02;56;00 – 00;03;13;06
Unknown
What about us? Do you need a little flour? Why don’t we want to know why you missed us? Are you. We want to know individually why you missed. Are you pulled out of I love you. Yeah. We want to know what feelings were coming up for you. How much you miss. This is like, how does this stupid,
00;03;13;08 – 00;03;29;00
Unknown
So it’s okay for all of us that she wants 20 minutes of congratulations. Of what she did. Well, so we want individual information about what you miss the most about each one of us, and then what you miss the most collectively when we weren’t here. Jesus. If I had known that I was going to have to do this.
00;03;29;03 – 00;03;46;22
Unknown
Oh, you made a list. Made a list. This is good training for your marriage, Scott, because Kelly can come out with this stuff at any time. I don’t need any more. So my marriage is 21 years. 20 years, and you should be good at the on the spot. Who’s lead back? Okay, well, you just said you just had a little moment to panic.
00;03;46;24 – 00;04;10;08
Unknown
All right, all right, so besides the fact that you both are gorgeous. Oh, thank you tastic today. Thank you. With the long ass fake hair. Yeah, yeah. That’s terrific. Yeah, I know you all are surprised to hear that. That was rough. Now I know what you’re going to get. Yeah, we got it. For those of you listeners who don’t know, we got into the habit of recording these on Monday mornings.
00;04;10;10 – 00;04;29;05
Unknown
Two at a time. So it was a long Monday morning for you. Yeah it was but but and a long anticipation the night before. There used to be now. Oh no. It used to be because it used to be. You remember there was a time where it was very stressful for me to do this show. Oh, I don’t remember that at all.
00;04;29;11 – 00;04;45;00
Unknown
And it wasn’t anything to do with you personally. It was the tech. Oh, I was having a tech. I was having a lot of tech problems for a time, so it was, like really difficult for me to get things going. But now I got. Can you see them behind me? Where are they? Where’s Jo Jo? Where are you, Jo?
00;04;45;00 – 00;05;03;13
Unknown
Popping the bubble up in a bubble. Jo. Jo. Oh, that’s on bitch right there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, he almost got fired this morning if he was going to be late. But he wasn’t. He was on time. Is that you? I’ve made it clear that he can stroll in and stroll out whenever he wants. As long as he kicks ass while he’s here.
00;05;03;16 – 00;05;28;23
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he does, he does. So, he has helped tremendously in a lot of the stress relieving things here, and we’re still working through that. I mean, he’s fairly new, have been here for six years and he just started what now. My Mondays I feel, are less stressful because I’m not sitting here for two hours doing a show when work’s not getting done.
00;05;28;25 – 00;05;52;04
Unknown
And so now work’s getting done and now I can enjoy the space that we share. How did you hear a lot of compliments about Jo and nothing about I. I’m okay to We’ve had gotta be real frickin rocket ship. Good. Cause Jo just got a resounding review here. Sure. Yeah. Great. Great. Great. Jo. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, yeah.
00;05;52;05 – 00;06;21;28
Unknown
Jo. Jo. Jo. Jo. Jo. Next step. Yeah. We’re still waiting. It’s fine, but. For. So you both are tremendously funny. Oh. Thank you. Who is funnier, though? Oh, definitely you. Well, see, there’s definitely a there’s there’s different, of of comedy going on here. You know, what are those types? What are those types? Yeah. So, well, obviously we’re in the middle of some sort of situational comedy, right?
00;06;22;01 – 00;06;43;07
Unknown
Where you’ve got you’ve got the the ball of chaos. Just keeping yourself together. Rebecca. Yeah. And then you’ve got the what the fuck is your point of view? Sharon. That I try to I try to like. And that’s why the bubbles in the middle. Because I’m constantly trying to understand how to be in the middle. Goodbye. Goodbye. Oh, my God, that’s what.
00;06;43;07 – 00;07;07;13
Unknown
That’s really hard. It’s really hard to to to do that. Yeah, but but you both always make my Mondays just happier because it’s just fun. It’s fun, fun, fun. And I do learn something from the podcast and I have I have actually taken what I’ve learned and applied it to my life in many cases. So we’re there. We work is done here.
00;07;07;14 – 00;07;24;22
Unknown
That’s right. And work is this. That’s all we care about. All we care. Let’s cool. We want oh there’s there’s more to. Oh, there. Oh. That’s it. Your work is never done. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Just. Okay. So go back to remember the whole issue I had with my neighbor upstairs. The neighbor in the South.
00;07;24;24 – 00;07;45;09
Unknown
Absolutely. We are like this now. Oh I’m over here. But you know, she she texts me now and says, hey, this is happening. And I just want to make sure it’s not going to like, cause any problems. And I’m like, no, everything’s fine. Thank you. Appreciate it. I never actually see her, but she always texts me and says that stuff.
00;07;45;10 – 00;08;03;28
Unknown
Stop it. I’m going to cry. It’s the respect to mutual relationship. Because we built interpersonal relationships. Skills that made that possible. Yeah. That’s it. Yup. That’s our nutshell right there. Because do you remember how distraught you were? And you were so you were in such a spot? I remember I was sitting on the floor in a hotel room texting.
00;08;03;28 – 00;08;29;07
Unknown
You were on the floor. I don’t know. Darnell was in the bathroom. Put his makeup on or something. Who the hell knows? And I’m sitting there, and I just remember saying two things. One, I remember saying, you’re having a triggered reaction to this. Why not? Not like why? Why? But, like, tell me more about that. Let’s dig. And then the second part was I would respond very similarly to that woman.
00;08;29;08 – 00;09;00;03
Unknown
So help me understand why that would be different. Right. And that really set the tone, hopefully for what then ended up being this like common peace conversation when she came downstairs and I remember saying, the first thing we do is we we make it like when she comes in like, hey, I’m your asshole neighbor from downstairs who’s not really an asshole, and that I remember that that’s what happened.
00;09;00;05 – 00;09;23;08
Unknown
She started it. She was like, hey, you know, I’m the jerk from upstairs. Nice to meet you. For real now. You know, nice to meet you for real the first time, right? I love that. That’s great. I specifically love that because I believe that having those types of conversations is the kindest thing you can do to a fellow human being.
00;09;23;11 – 00;09;46;08
Unknown
It might come across as difficult, and it’s temporary, right? Changes the trajectory. Right of everything. Do you feel like you’re in a stadium? Thank you for coming. You know, you hear those bills, bills? Bills for your money? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, maybe. Tell Joey you should fix it. Maybe you got some tech problems. I mean, they’re not a big deal.
00;09;46;08 – 00;10;12;28
Unknown
It’s just it’s a very different experience than the normal. But. But I love that why that’s happening. But yeah, that’s really great. Changing the trajectory of a neighbor situation. So great. Just having an honest conversation about what did or did not work without it needing to be anyone’s fault. Yeah. Yeah. Narrative therapy. So problem is the problem. The person is not the problem.
00;10;13;01 – 00;10;45;12
Unknown
Focus on the problem. Let’s focus on the problem. Is the problem. Yeah. No person is not the problem. Yeah. But because of this podcast, I have learned to take a step outside of these situations and really try to think more. And I’ve always been an empathetic person. But to the extent where now I’m kind of more understanding somebody who has the mechanics of empathy and like, why you do that and why you would try to think and and stop just assuming it’s all the assumptions that we make.
00;10;45;13 – 00;11;05;18
Unknown
Oh, yeah. Like, you automatically assume you know the other person’s agenda or, you know, the reason why they’re saying all this stuff and you most of the time are dead wrong. Someone just yelled at me, why? Because he’s an asshole. No. Why? Because his mother just died, and, his kid got in a car accident all in five minutes.
00;11;05;20 – 00;11;27;01
Unknown
Right. Kind of shit happens. That’s right. That’s right. Now, people don’t realize that. That all those weird things that you say never happens. It happens all the time to people. And you’re like yeah. And we’ve seen the, the memes and stuff on Facebook or whatever that it says, that guy that just cut you off. You know, let him be or something because you don’t know what he’s going through.
00;11;27;02 – 00;11;47;06
Unknown
That’s right. Obviously I’m terribly paraphrasing. No, but I know what you. I guess that meme doesn’t make an impact. Yeah. You know what? It’s way too long. Let me make that right. Let me make. Yeah. Bye. Well. Thank you. Thank you. Scott. That’s so nice. So you. I’m trying to. I’ll come up with Rebecca has taught me, but,
00;11;47;09 – 00;12;06;23
Unknown
Oh. Just kidding. So for me, that was. That was all. That was all. It’s okay. It’s okay. It’s all right. I you know, I’m not the expert in empathy here. Clearly. Now, here. I would be really honest with you. I give Rebecca the hardest of her time. No one gives her Rebecca more of a hard time that I do.
00;12;06;24 – 00;12;29;01
Unknown
But I am not me without Rebecca. I mean that Daniel hurting me. It is. And it’s the tiniest little ways that you. That you see it. I know it’s the tiniest little ways that it comes out that Rebecca doesn’t get a lot of credit for much, not just in this relationship, but I just think in general in a lot of her relationships.
00;12;29;04 – 00;12;51;06
Unknown
And that’s something we’ve talked about so many times between the two of us. But people don’t often see her value or don’t always give her credit for her value. But it’s when that’s not present that you start to really feel this like, oh, right, so cool. Aaron’s cool on her own. Like to hear or what she’s gonna talk about.
00;12;51;06 – 00;13;16;24
Unknown
Rachel like. Also, it’s not as fun. It’s not as random. It’s not as like the perspective that she provides on these things. I shoot her down constantly about her perspective. But when I, I 100% of the time when I stop and actually try and listen to the essence of what she’s saying, not her actual words, I get in trouble there because I’m incredibly literal.
00;13;16;26 – 00;13;43;05
Unknown
If I listen to her actual words, then I’m just constantly, no, no, no, that’s stupid, that’s stupid. But if I can get below what she’s saying and understand the essence, it’s spot fucking on every single time. And it’s the perfect complement to to what I’m bringing to it. Right. And so that’s what she brings to the podcast. It’s just harder to see sometimes for it.
00;13;43;08 – 00;14;15;14
Unknown
But I think a lot of people who listen to this show just feel this endearing connection with Rebecca because she is who a lot of people are. But like, either don’t have the confidence to be or don’t know how to say it in that way or don’t feel comfortable being, you know, yeah, they’re they’re a little more reserved or buttoned up or oh, I can kind of see what she’s saying, but I don’t want to admit that out loud with, you know.
00;14;15;16 – 00;14;36;06
Unknown
Yeah. And and you can in some twisted way, you can learn to be more self assertive by watching what Rebecca does. Maybe not twisted but you know what I mean. You can learn that here on the podcast. Just not in real life. I mean because she podcast is all that matters. Real life. Yeah fine. That’s fine. Don’t come with her on real life because she is not assertive at all.
00;14;36;06 – 00;15;02;05
Unknown
She will get railroaded every single day. Someone she’ll be like, I’d like to charge $20 an hour. And they’re like, how about 750? She’s like, okay, all right, that’s fine. And will there be a whole lot of extra chaos in this job? That’s fine too. Yeah, that’s fine too. Which is a great segue into what we’re going to talk about today, which is a little more empathy with boundaries.
00;15;02;05 – 00;15;40;03
Unknown
Oh, and sort of trying to figure out where that line is of having an empathic, caring, caring for other people, seeing other people, but also knowing when it’s okay to assert yourself. And I think we as women really struggle a lot with knowing where that line is, how that line shifts. And then second guessing ourselves if we came off too strong or if we were, you know, we often know when we’ve gone too far in the empathy direction because we’re overburdened and we’re tired and we’re stressed and we’re annoyed and we’re all of those things.
00;15;40;05 – 00;16;00;05
Unknown
But when we go in the other direction, which is, you know, real strong boundaries, maybe quickly or more quickly than we would have thought, then we feel the guilt and the shame associated with that. So, like, where’s the part where you actually assert a boundary and feel good about it? Well, yeah, right. That’s a great question. I never feel good with boundaries.
00;16;00;10 – 00;16;21;22
Unknown
Yeah, I never I, I rarely find women who are like, I nailed that in terms of a boundary category. And I feel real great about that boundary. Right. And I don’t think this is something that stereotypically, I don’t think men struggle with as much. I think they set boundaries quicker. And then I think they just shut those guilt, shame, whatever, because they just justify it and move on.
00;16;21;27 – 00;16;42;27
Unknown
Right. I have a big problem with boundaries. And I’m not like in a weird creepy way, but just like in, in your like for instance, I would say we’ve become friends but you know you’re still my clients. You know what I mean? Like I work for you but it’s just, it’s weird because the and that happens with all of my clients.
00;16;42;27 – 00;17;11;22
Unknown
I, I become so, so close to them. That and it hasn’t happened here where I had to like I’m afraid to put my foot down because you’re stepping all over me. That that hasn’t happened in our situation. But it has happened in other cases where I’m like, I’m really letting this person take advantage of me because that boundary, that line between client and and proprietor or whatever has, has blurred and it’s become sort of a friend thing, you know, and I’m like, okay.
00;17;11;22 – 00;17;35;02
Unknown
Yeah, sorry. Yeah. All right. You can, you can go ahead and cancel today. That’s fine. Whereas if it were someone else, I would be like, well, no, you’ve blocked up my calendar for three weeks and I couldn’t book anyone there. So I need to charge you. But isn’t that interesting that what you’re essentially saying is they don’t have, it’s harder for me to have boundaries with friends than it is for me to have boundaries with clients.
00;17;35;02 – 00;18;00;28
Unknown
Why why is boundaries with friends an oxymoron? Right? Why is it that just because we’re friends with you, if you feel you’re getting taken advantage of, you might be less likely to bring that up because we’re in the friend zone instead of it being the opposite. Because I care about you as a friend, it’s important for me to set the boundary and I don’t think that experience you’re having, Scott, is at all unique.
00;18;00;28 – 00;18;27;03
Unknown
I think 99.9% of the world is like, oh, I can’t have that boundary with my mom because she’s my mom. Once you establish a quote really? Oh, I can’t have that. I can’t have boundary with my significant other because, right. Or with my best friend or my best colleague at work, that we always go to lunch together. Because now we’re friends, now we’re close, now we have a bond.
00;18;27;05 – 00;18;51;07
Unknown
Right? And but I’m not saying I do this 100% of the time, but my statement on that would be then it’s even more important to protect that relationship through boundaries. And maybe boundary doesn’t need to be a bad word if we really unpack what is boundaries. And that’s I’m hoping that that’s what we can can do today. So I know we’re a little out of practice here, but you need to start us off with some hippie vu.
00;18;51;07 – 00;19;12;26
Unknown
I don’t think so. No, I think this is the the end. Oh, you know what? They start an affirmation card. We can, we can’t. This, this this particular. Just so the audience knows, we always pick the cards prior to starting the session. Meaning like right before or after, right before the intro music starts is when the energy comes in.
00;19;12;27 – 00;19;27;29
Unknown
The card is picked. Nine times out of ten, I don’t even read it, but I happen to skip this one. Yeah, and this one feels more like an affirmation. And I’m not exactly sure what’s going to come out of this conversation, but it feels. The energy feels. And I got that. This is an end. I’ll sign off. Okay, I love it.
00;19;27;29 – 00;19;50;20
Unknown
Yeah. So then I’ll start you with an affirmation I am true to myself. I know that pure joy is the result of being in alignment with my soul. Interesting. Yeah, when we read, we read this one later. Oh, I love that so, so much. Okay, so let’s unpack boundaries a little bit. And if you would both indulge me a bit, I would love to give you, this through an example.
00;19;50;24 – 00;20;14;23
Unknown
Okay? Okay. Scott, you ready for this? I know you’ve been dying to know what’s been going on here, so where do I begin? What are we doing? I’m on a I’m on a flight. A flight, okay, I land, I check my phone like I always do, and I see that there is this show, this reality show. Oh, well, this is what you do.
00;20;14;25 – 00;20;45;24
Unknown
Okay, here’s this reality show on TV called The Blocks. And it’s basically Shark Tank meets, What? What was there, the apprentice? Thank you. Which Shark Tank meets the apprentice shows? Or at least that’s what I’m what they say they are. Let’s just say that. Yeah. And so, I, on a whim, fill out the application form. Doesn’t take very long to do it.
00;20;45;25 – 00;21;10;04
Unknown
It’s essentially a show where business entrepreneurs go on and they complete compete in a series of challenges. It’s the at the end when, I don’t know, 25 grand, some ten grand. Who the heck knows? Let’s clarify, it’s business related challenges. Yes. Eats and bugs. No no no no no, we’re not we’re not doing fear factor here. Yeah, Aaron’s not applying for that.
00;21;10;04 – 00;21;36;06
Unknown
I tell you that. Like marketing market your business and compare the marketing to. Yes. You have five minutes to put together a marketing campaign around this topic or whatever, and you’ve participated in a ridiculous amount of quote unquote education throughout the course of the week. And the education is, supposedly taught to you by coaches or people who are quote unquote successful entrepreneurs.
00;21;36;09 – 00;22;00;10
Unknown
Or this the guy who runs the show, his name is West. I can’t remember his last name. He was from east of the show, right? Yeah, he’s from the real world. One of them. Or go back when you and I were in high 90s. Yeah, yeah. So he’s irrelevant. Basically you’re saying. Yeah. Well, well. And that’s again asterisks foreshadowing.
00;22;00;13 – 00;22;22;24
Unknown
So I sign up for this and all of a sudden I get moved on to the next round, and the next round is where I need to complete three short videos that are less than two minutes apiece on three questions that pop up. So it’s one of those, like, interview platforms where it’s like, here’s the question, and you get three takes to answer it, right, and you have to answer it within a certain amount of time, and then it shuts you down.
00;22;22;27 – 00;22;47;08
Unknown
So I do the first one, submit my first take to the second one, submit my first take. I’m like, this is who I am. You get what you get, right, I submit it. Next thing you know, move on to the next round. And the next round is a phone interview for 45 minutes. Geez. So I get a message that says, congratulations, we are moving you on to the phone interview round.
00;22;47;15 – 00;23;06;19
Unknown
And I’m like, oh my God, Rebecca, this is so crazy. Well, I we might be able to be on the block. So she’s like, I’m absolutely coming on the blocks. I said, I know we’re going on together. I already got the price quote for both of us. Now, did you see this show before like you ever watch? No, not prior to her, learning about it.
00;23;06;25 – 00;23;24;21
Unknown
Yes. When she texted me, when she texted me and said, have you heard of this? I looked it up and then immediately went to Amazon and started to watch it. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So I’ve not heard of it before either. But then once I started applying for it, I went home and watch like 3 or 4 episodes, but it’s like 13 to 15 seasons.
00;23;24;25 – 00;23;47;18
Unknown
They’re on season 14 right now. Right. Mean those are some of the early seasons on the Amazon Prime? Yes, the early season. And I’m gonna be real honest with you, not super impressive. The content was pretty interesting, but the videography Scott was up iPhone quality if that best C, C or D quality is terrible. What have rolled over there?
00;23;47;22 – 00;24;06;28
Unknown
They’re filming clearly filming in a hotel banquet room like it’s it’s low budget. Yeah right. Low budget. But again, they were on season 14 at this point where the money amount was increasing. You don’t necessarily go on there for money. You go on there for the education and to be around these other people on what connections all the things.
00;24;06;28 – 00;24;29;13
Unknown
Yeah. So I get moved on to the interview stage and I end up having a 45 minute conversation with this woman named Maddie. And the conversation goes really well. She basically asks questions about what is your business, what is your business? Do? How do you help people? Where do you see yourself in the next five years? What is one area that your business needs to work on?
00;24;29;13 – 00;24;57;25
Unknown
What do you think you will take the most coming from the blocks? They said that they, do the filming at this hotel in Tulsa, Oklahoma called Osage. Is that right? The Osage, something like that. It’s like a hotel casino. Yes. Yeah, it’s like a hotel bar resort because they set that up. Yeah. And they were like, this is at a casino.
00;24;57;28 – 00;25;21;21
Unknown
Yeah. And bar establishment. Will that be a problem? Right. I said, it’s actually the opposite of a problem. That sounds fantastic, right? Sounds like in a dream. This is one week. You go for, for seven days to for them to do the filming of this. So I finished the conversation with this woman and she is like, I don’t usually say this to people, but I just love your personality.
00;25;21;21 – 00;25;41;05
Unknown
I love your business. I love what you’re doing. You’re the perfect person to have on this show. We’re reviewing all of this stuff on Sunday. You can expect to get an an offer a letter early next week. I immediately call Rebecca Freak out, we’re on the plane. Well, at that point, at that point, did you tell her about me?
00;25;41;08 – 00;26;01;08
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, because she texted me and said, let’s set up a call. I at that, when I got on the phone, I said, hey, I got my girlfriend waiting for me to give us a call for this interview so that it can be both of us. Do you want me to just loop her in? Right. And she was like, oh, I’ve never had that happen before, but, no, I think I’ll just meet with you first.
00;26;01;08 – 00;26;16;07
Unknown
And then if this goes well, you know, I’ll schedule time with her. So she says immediately, she’s going to schedule a time with you. And I say, well, good luck with that, because she’s a loose cannon. So if you think it was great talk to me. Wait till you talk to Rebecca. Right. And at the same time, I pitched Scott.
00;26;16;12 – 00;26;38;10
Unknown
All right. So I’m like, we got this guy. He does all this production work. He can come with us if you need additional support from production. Right. She’s like, we do. That’s awesome. So I said, great. I’ll send you Scott’s contact information. Right. I immediately contact Scott. I’m telling him about this opportunity. I’m like, I think I brought you on a gig.
00;26;38;10 – 00;27;19;05
Unknown
I was so excited. You know, whatever I go in, I put this on our calendar because the timing is perfect. And so, I put it on all three of our calendars. I am so excited about that. Can I can I jump in first? Yeah. When, when you told me about that, about that you you brought me into, you know, offered me up essentially to, to work on that, coming from a production background, what I saw in my mind was her saying, oh, that sounds great going, because whenever, whenever you doing something and the person that you’re talking to like, oh, I got a great person for you.
00;27;19;05 – 00;27;38;23
Unknown
Like, I got in production, specifically in production. If I’m talking to someone, they’re like, oh no, I got this guy who’s awesome and you’re like, okay, we got a team. We’re good. But you know what I mean? So in my mind I’m like, I don’t know if it’s legit, if she’s just blowing smoke up your ass or if they’re actually going to call em now.
00;27;38;27 – 00;28;05;11
Unknown
But I get that we had watched the early episodes. This podcast is a ten out of ten. Especially compared to those I sound. I mean, okay, the the Instagram Reels I do on my phone are a ten out of ten compared to what these people were putting out. Yeah, it’s pretty cool. So I’m like, I got a guy and you need a guy.
00;28;05;14 – 00;28;26;07
Unknown
And she was like, I’ll talk to our production guy. But she seemed incredibly excited because I’m be real honest with you, this is now going to come out to the other part of the story. They need all the help they can get. And they’re trying to make this into something. It’s a startup right. They’re trying to this, they carries a financial burden associated with it.
00;28;26;07 – 00;28;47;14
Unknown
So the contestants need to pay for the hotel, the their own flight. They need to pay for food. They need to pay for the instruction that they’re getting right. It’s essentially the cost of a normal conference for two people. That’s how we could justify it. You know, as a business expense. Plus, we thought that the marketing opportunities were going to be really great.
00;28;47;16 – 00;29;06;23
Unknown
Oh, you had to pay. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And, and, you, you had to pay. You basically had to pay for your ticket. But it also included, your access to these coaches. And in theory, if we as a, as a business, if you were to get access to any sort of business cost, you’d have to pay, like, yeah, a week long.
00;29;06;23 – 00;29;30;24
Unknown
We’re talking 9 to 9, right. You know, education instruction, ability to potentially when it’s like a boot camp. Yeah. You know, incubator program. It was an incubator program that happened to be filmed is really what it was. It wasn’t it wasn’t necessarily like. And so they did a little TV, a few people and select which ones they’ll allow to pay to be on this thing.
00;29;30;27 – 00;29;47;25
Unknown
Well yes. And that’s what they say. Yeah. Okay. That’s what they say. Okay. Right. And Rebecca had already known this because she already did her research and she was already like, I just want to let you know there’s going to be a cost associated with this. And then consider that when you’re considering all things. Yeah. And we were fine with that.
00;29;47;25 – 00;30;03;15
Unknown
And I talked to my financial advisor and we were we were we were good to go. Now that she did, the person that you did the interview with, did she say this right up front? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. She told every single thing this is how much it would cost. We have payment plans available. If you need that.
00;30;03;15 – 00;30;20;10
Unknown
Will it be a problem for you to be able to. Yeah. Because immediately there is if you if you say, oh, I didn’t realize that they’ll just take you off the list and pick somebody else, right. Yeah. Yeah. They’re very upfront. They asked if we had any drug and alcohol problems without asking that to determine whether or not it was okay for us to be in that environment.
00;30;20;11 – 00;30;48;10
Unknown
I mean, problem. Right? Right. As drug alcohol gambling problem. Right. Because we’re going to be in that type of environment. She must ask that question three times. Right. Leads me to believe that they had some sort of situation in the past, no doubt. And then they probably kind of cut that shit out of the filming. Like, I’m sure I’m sure they’ve seen a lot of, you know, so I get an email that basically says, congratulations, you’ve been selected.
00;30;48;13 – 00;31;07;28
Unknown
I’m freaking out. I contact Rebecca, I’m like, yes, we did it for going to Tulsa. No, I never I never talked to her because when her and I were texting, she got up in a meeting. Yeah. And I said, I can’t, I can’t do it. I’m on vacation. However, here’s our link to our podcast if you want to see the two of us together.
00;31;07;28 – 00;31;27;08
Unknown
Yeah. And that’s kind of how we left. Yes. Yeah. So I get the congratulations. You know, here’s your contract. Here’s the information about being on the show. I tell a couple people, oh my God, this is so great, Mark. So excited. I tell Ryan Ryan’s like, oh my God, this is so crazy. I can’t believe you’re going to be out on a frickin reality TV show.
00;31;27;08 – 00;31;49;23
Unknown
I’m like, hey there. And then I’m freaking out to Rebecca. I’m like, who gets to say that they got a reality TV show with their best friend? This is such a cool part of our story. Like how fun, right? So then a few days after the congratulations email, I get an email from this woman named Ruth. Now hold on, I happened to email my boss.
00;31;49;26 – 00;32;09;05
Unknown
Yeah, because I realize on the calendar there is a potential conflict and I might have to be in person to a really important team event that I don’t want to miss, but I’m not confirmed on those dates. So I send this whole long email to my boss saying, my best friend got this opportunity. I want to go with her, we support each other, yada yada yada.
00;32;09;06 – 00;32;27;22
Unknown
Like all I outlined the longest email ever yesterday. I was just like, it’s like flowery and beautiful. All fully understand if you’re, you know, blah blah blah blah blah like all the things. But would you please consider letting me participate in this blah blah blah blah. Send it. Yeah, send no response yet. Not yet. Right at this moment.
00;32;27;23 – 00;32;45;15
Unknown
And and then at this point, I get an email from this woman named Ruth. I’m not going to read you the whole I’m just going to read you the hot spots. So, hey, I wanted to reach out and a little more personal of a way than I did with the congratulatory email went out. I’ve met some of you over the phone, but most of you are strangers to me.
00;32;45;15 – 00;33;07;19
Unknown
But not for too much longer. I’m the onboarding specialist at the blocks. My job is to help you navigate this important step. Now this next paragraph is critical, so if not, listen to anything that I’ve said. Tune in right now. Okay? I’m writing to make sure you are welcome and encouraged to email me with comments, questions, and concerns.
00;33;07;21 – 00;33;40;23
Unknown
I’m aware that this is an unusual opportunity. It’s not inexpensive and is a notable investment in time. So please, please, please write me with bullet points about anything I can help you gain clarity on so we can get your homework done as soon as feasible, and then move on to the next fun steps. Okay, great. So because I’m not an idiot, I then take the contract and I send it to our business attorney and I say, here you go.
00;33;40;26 – 00;34;05;02
Unknown
Please look at this. Now, this isn’t a paragraph contract. This is a 15 page contract. Oh yeah. This is a oh, this is a 13. It’s a 13. It’s a 12, 13 out of 15, 13 out of 15 page contract. That’s what it says at the bottom 13 page 13 out of 15. Okay. That’s how many pages are in the contract.
00;34;05;04 – 00;34;26;28
Unknown
Was there as it missing two pages. It was two pages over. Oh no was two pages I’m sorry, 15, 13 out of 13. That’s what we meant to say. Yes. This is page 15 out of 13. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry, sorry. That was just the beginning. Yeah. So our legal counsel goes and reviews. It basically calls me and says, this is absolute trash.
00;34;26;28 – 00;34;45;10
Unknown
I’ve never seen a contract this bad in my entire life. I have gone through and highlighted a bunch of things you need to be aware of. But there is no way I can fix this contract in a way that makes me feel comfortable for your safety to go on this trip. Oh my God, that is not something. And I’m like a lawyer.
00;34;45;17 – 00;35;07;10
Unknown
Oh, what? What? She’s just overreacting because she’s a lawyer. She’s fine. I’m going to go in and I’m going to look at it. Right. And so I go through and I look at her comments and I write what I think is a nice e-mail back to Ruth with bullet points, because that was what was requested of me. Okay.
00;35;07;13 – 00;35;34;29
Unknown
So I say, hi, Ruth, we do have some questions and concerns regarding the contract. First of all, my first bullet point is who is Cassie Krieger? And then I indicate in their competition and subjectivity part three, which was the part of the contract, so she could go back into the contract because it had just said you could be kicked off the show at any time if Wes or Cassie Krieger determined that you should be kicked off.
00;35;34;29 – 00;36;08;24
Unknown
So I’m like, Who is Cassie? But like, we knew who West was. She’s going to kick me off. Like, who? Who is she? Got it. Got her? No she is. We get shot around her. My second bullet point. We’re not overly thrilled with the reviews that we’ve seen about Osage, including those I’ve included below. And we would like to have an amendment to the contract that indicates that if we do not find the living conditions to be suitable, that we have the ability to go elsewhere, so long as we are back at the hotel and ready for production as required, we’re happy to have our legal team write up this amendment.
00;36;08;24 – 00;36;32;21
Unknown
Now in the contract it specified over and over again, you are required to stay at this hotel. And so I said as a meeting planner, as an event planner, I said to Aaron, my guess is they are saying this because they are on the hook to pay for these rooms. And I said to her, I guarantee you, if you say to her, we’re happy we’re paying the contract, we’re paying the entry fee.
00;36;32;21 – 00;36;56;07
Unknown
But if we don’t want to stay there, we’re not staying there. And her lawyer, Aaron Lawyer, had sent her all these reviews. Here’s some of the reviews. This is the Osage Nation. Police seize firearms, ammunition and 200g of meth at casino. Man arrested after shooting in parking lot of Tulsa. Osage casino. Citizen saves officer by killing suspect in Osage casino parking lot.
00;36;56;07 – 00;37;13;00
Unknown
Oh my God, that’s just a parking lot. Here’s here’s your review. This TripAdvisor review. This is one of the worst hotels I have ever been at with my family. There were fights in the hallway all night. The room had food on the walls. There was even a guy puking on our porch. The hotel did nothing to fix the situation.
00;37;13;00 – 00;37;34;11
Unknown
Do not waste your money. Horrible room. Blot on the comforter. Worst a dirty room experience I’ve ever had. Our desk. Our room was covered in dust and not clean at all. There was a shower cap on the smoke alarm. Cigaret holes in the batting. Jesus. Now, now we all know the stories of how when I booked rooms and Aaron’s like, fuck no, no, no.
00;37;34;11 – 00;37;59;11
Unknown
Now, listen, I’m bougie as they come and it comes to my my living conditions, I if I walked in there and it smelled, it did the tiniest tinge of smoke. I’m out of there. If I see one drop of blood from a pinprick figure finger out of there. If she sees any, sheets or decor. That’s not 2 a.m. my standing and above she wi out.
00;37;59;14 – 00;38;18;07
Unknown
That’s right. If I don’t like the tile on your backsplash. Oh. Gotta go, gotta go. Your shower head looks like it is more than three years old, right? Gone. If we walk into the lobby and there’s a fake statue of a man holding. Oh, yes. Yeah. Got a gun? If there is a refrigerator full of flower bouquets. Yeah.
00;38;18;11 – 00;38;35;28
Unknown
Gotta go. If your elevator doesn’t take me to the correct floor the first time and that thing is shaking like a leaf on a tree gone. Okay, I want to, I know, not sure if we’re as clear as possible here. Clear. But I’m as bougie as they come. It is four and a half star. Plus or I ain’t staying there.
00;38;36;00 – 00;39;02;00
Unknown
Okay, now I’ll pay your contract, but I’m staying forever. Where else? If I don’t feel comfortable or safe or whatever. So these are the reviews and she’s paying for it, so I’ll just go wherever she. Right, right. So I, I include that part as a bullet point. Right. I then say, what is the level of success that qualifies someone to be a mentor for the program?
00;39;02;03 – 00;39;29;23
Unknown
My next bullet. What qualifies West to be a primary coach of the blocks? And then my other questions are just essentially like, when’s it going to air? And those types of things, okay, I think those are completely appropriate questions. After a reading this contract put together by a 15 year old that basically says you don’t get your money back no matter what, we can kick you out for any reason whatsoever and you don’t have any say in it.
00;39;29;25 – 00;39;50;20
Unknown
You we can cancel, we can cancel and you won’t get your money back yet there. And we can say, oh, the show’s not doing it anymore and you don’t get your money back. You will be charged a $1,500 rebooking fee if you go on a different season, even if it’s our fault rate, you’re going on a different season, right?
00;39;50;23 – 00;40;21;03
Unknown
I mean, page 15 out of 13 was real clear right there. No amendments. Yes, there. No mandatory contract. Okay. So this is where the part about empathy with boundaries starts to come in. So I get this response from Ruth and then let me tell you, I sent the first 1st August 27th at 8:55 a.m.. She wrote a response August 27th at 8:05 p.m..
00;40;21;03 – 00;40;53;01
Unknown
Okay, so okay, so got right back to 12 hours. Well, I mean, whatever day, right? Same day. That’s that’s pretty fast in my mind. Here’s the response. Hi, Erin, I spoke to Kathy about your question. Still don’t know who Kassius, but glad we talked to her about your concerns today. She is. Wes is CEO of Beta Blocks and helps produce and direct this entire event was founded this company 14 years ago and has a masters in Entrepreneurial Ship Education.
00;40;53;04 – 00;41;20;18
Unknown
Side note please tell me where that’s from and listen. Please tell me where that degree is from. I’d like to maybe just do a quick class check on entrepreneurial ship education class A Thursday. Yeah, it’s Trump University. He has written and developed all of his curriculum, his company services and this show. Exclamation point. We don’t allow cast members to stay off property or make amendments to the contract.
00;41;20;18 – 00;41;43;09
Unknown
So unfortunately, if that’s going to be an issue, we will have to rescind the invitation for you to attend. Also, we’re filmed at the Osage eight times this year. It had an overall positive experience. Every time. The Osage location we are staying at is rated an 8.5 out of ten, and we have never experienced anything like you’re calling out.
00;41;43;12 – 00;42;12;14
Unknown
I understand problems like the ones you’ve listed below can happen in any hotel or resort or any major city, unfortunately, and I’m not saying they did not, but we have not encountered anything like that. Respectfully, we thank you for your interest in our program, but we feel we should decline your invitation due to your request to amend our contract, stay somewhere else, as well as your concern about what qualifies West and the coaches he brings in to educate and mentor you.
00;42;12;15 – 00;42;39;12
Unknown
I mean asking questions. You’re out. Thanks for your questions and concerns. We wish you success in your business always. Okay, I get that. I get that e-mail while I fall in the target and do do do do do do do I hear a sucker right on the horn? I go, well we’re out because florets showered it. She’s like, what are you talking about?
00;42;39;12 – 00;42;59;16
Unknown
Like we’re on the blocks or out of the blocks now. Her first concern oh no, I just sent this email. My boss is here to see my boss. I can’t go reading that. I gotta go take that back. Oh, right. Right. But she can tell in that moment. That’s not the time to say it, because I, I am, I am both I’m sad for a minute.
00;42;59;18 – 00;43;25;15
Unknown
I’m confused for a minute, and then I get angry. Right? So my sadness was, oh my God, I was so excited about this. Maybe there’s a way this can still be salvage salvaged. I want to say that was, six seconds. Okay, okay. Okay. Then shortly after that, I felt the shame and guilt of being neurodivergent and, like, maybe my email was too pointed.
00;43;25;15 – 00;43;46;18
Unknown
So maybe I was. Maybe I can sometimes have a tendency to come off as like, here’s the question, here’s the question. Here’s the question. Like, I’m not going to spend some flowery language making sure I’m like, what qualifies West? What qualifies the business coach? Maybe she read it right in that way. I end up saying that out loud to Rebecca, and her first response is, oh hell no.
00;43;46;20 – 00;44;10;11
Unknown
Ran. No, that is not what’s happening right here. That is not what’s going on. Your email was completely appropriate. And so that one was about, four seconds and then the anger hit. And here I am. No I specifically said she goes I’m gonna write right back. And I said you’re not doing anything tonight. I said you listen to me, you’re doing absolutely nothing.
00;44;10;11 – 00;44;27;17
Unknown
In fact if you do choose to write it you’re not going to send it. We’re going to we’re going to talk through it tomorrow morning and you say, okay, okay, okay. And you say, I gotta go because I gotta get my I had to do something my whatever in the, in the crock pot or something, I don’t know, I had to do something to do something I don’t I probably would, hadn’t made dinner.
00;44;27;17 – 00;44;46;13
Unknown
You did do a good job talking me through. No, no, this is not you know. You know, I think we dodged a bullet here. I think maybe this, you know, wasn’t the best opportunity for us. You know, I start to do my own internalizing, so I start to say, you know, this is when when someone’s asking reasonable questions.
00;44;46;13 – 00;45;13;03
Unknown
If you can’t give reasonable answers back, it’s because you were shame. That’s the only reason you can’t give these reasons back. Right? So she processes this with me. And of course I mentally write the email in target. I’m surprised you weren’t voice knowing. I know yelling while I’m walking down the freezer section getting whatever you’re getting, grabbing some pierogies, throwing them in the carton like so Ruth that’s right.
00;45;13;05 – 00;45;31;14
Unknown
So I’m mentally right in this whole thing and I get it I got it I am so I am fired up. I am so ready. I get home, I text Mark, I say, I’m in the garage, can you please get the stuff out of the trunk? I got go write an email and at this point I had said, we’re off.
00;45;31;14 – 00;45;48;23
Unknown
We’re off the blocks. He’s like, what do you mean? Because he’s all excited? So he comes out into the garage and I said, I gotta go write an email. He’s like, what is going on? And I said, I will tell you in a minute, I just need to write this email because it’s fire right now. It is so good.
00;45;48;23 – 00;46;10;18
Unknown
And I need to make sure that I that I have it and I just send it. Then I’ll come out and help you get whatever notice. She says, send it. I said, don’t do anything until you read it to me. So that was what did I say? It was only I said, it doesn’t look right. So Ruth sends that at 8:05 a.m. 856 he sends she sends an email.
00;46;10;22 – 00;46;31;25
Unknown
This is what I when I say you wait, you’re you’re ready for this. Scott. This is. But I don’t see it till the next morning, so. But I back Rebecca into it. Right. The lawyer into it. My financial advisor into it. Right. Ryan troop into it because I told him we were going to build the blocks. So I made sure I went there up in the morning to this email.
00;46;31;27 – 00;46;57;15
Unknown
This is what I wake up to. Hi, Ruth, thank you for your passive aggressive email. I. It confirm for me what I already suspected that the blocks is a low rate reality TV show that lacks the funding and expertise to be successful and preys on unsuspecting, new to be entrepreneur entrepreneurs looking for their chance to get on TV.
00;46;57;17 – 00;47;24;27
Unknown
If you had a successful program, you and Cassie would have read my email as a way of seeking clarity about my company’s financial investment in this opportunity. Instead, you got defensive. Your seemingly shocked response to me asking questions about your contract in parentheses, questions you encouraged in your initial email is also telltale. As such, I suggest that you amend your welcome email to incoming participants below to read as follows.
00;47;25;01 – 00;47;48;26
Unknown
Quote. I’m writing to make sure you are welcome and encouraged to email me with questions, concerns, and questions and comments. I’m aware that this is an unusual opportunity. It’s not inexpensive and is a notable investment in time. So please, please, please write me with bullet points about anything I can help you gain clarity on so we can get your homework done as soon as feasible, and then move on to the next fun steps.
00;47;49;02 – 00;48;12;02
Unknown
Please note, however, if you do send me comments, questions or concerns, we will swiftly decline your invitation to participate because we do not like entrepreneurs getting too close to the truth of what we’re truly offering here. And quote, I love it. Oh, and you might also consider amending the last two page numbers on your contract. 13 of 12 and 14 of 12 are impossibilities.
00;48;12;03 – 00;48;53;05
Unknown
Good day. And no really. Best of luck to you, Aaron. Oh God, oh my God. So I wake up to this and I wish I could hear like Peter read that, but I can never get a response. Guys, I know you’re surprised Ken dying and not fire. Absolute fire. I never got a response. I then swiftly removed my name and email address from anything associated with this hack job, quote unquote reality TV show, because now I’m like, I don’t want to touch this with a ten foot pole.
00;48;53;05 – 00;49;15;22
Unknown
Y’all are scammers not okay? Yeah, I know, and it’s funny because as soon as she had called me and said our offer was rescinded, I then replied to my boss with huge update in the in the in the subject and I said so we sent, we got the contract and we ask some questions and they it’s just not going to work out.
00;49;15;24 – 00;49;21;05
Unknown
So like that. And he writes back, oh, that’s too bad.
00;49;21;07 – 00;49;45;03
Unknown
This incredibly long flowery, well, he’s just like, okay, thanks for letting me know. All right. Okay. I got to tell you, this is this is, heartbreaking. I know all these people. I mean, which part which part is heartbreaking are many different levels of heartbreak to this story? Yeah. The, the, the most, at least from a selfish point of view.
00;49;45;05 – 00;50;08;19
Unknown
I was really excited about having you guys in some sort of forum that put you and the podcast in front of an audience that could, you know, grab on to what we’re doing and be like, you know, even even if, even if it had modest rate of modest following, I know people would be like, we have to listen to their podcast.
00;50;08;19 – 00;50;31;21
Unknown
They’re amazing. Right? And we were also very clear that it would end up being The Rebecca and Aaron Show. And everybody else was going to be terrible. Yeah. So but they, they saw they saw you as a, as a definite problem 100%. You guys were definitely going to be a problem because because you don’t need them. No, you don’t need that.
00;50;31;21 – 00;50;52;06
Unknown
It was something cool. And you’re not like some people would sell out their family to be on TV. That’s right, that’s right. You know, and then they can be taken advantage of because of that. Exactly. And it really the fact that Amazon allows this to happen is shocking to me. Well, it’s not free. You have to pay for it.
00;50;52;09 – 00;51;10;11
Unknown
But it’s a show on Amazon, right. That you have to pay for. You have to you have even ascribed to the show. No, you have to per per season, per season. So it’s not even if you are a Prime membership. So they are selling it Amazon sells it. Not okay I got you. So it’s not it’s not a show that’s produced by Amazon.
00;51;10;11 – 00;51;33;02
Unknown
It’s not they you can just watch it on Amazon. Correct. Okay. All right. Well that and probably some other platforms that. Yeah. Well that that actually makes more sense to me. And now see in my mind it was an Amazon show. Right. And so I was, I was blown away by like, how could Amazon even remote Lee stand behind this.
00;51;33;02 – 00;51;54;18
Unknown
There’s no way. Because no, it says that it’s a contract to like if you’re going to be talking about it in any way, shape or form, you have to say something like, as seen as available on Amazon Prime or whatever, something like you couldn’t use the term Amazon and then you couldn’t use like it was very clear on if you were going to promote it.
00;51;54;18 – 00;52;17;14
Unknown
Oh, how it was that you were gonna talk about it. Right. Wow. And when you look up this West guy, he’s like mega douche. Mega douche personality. Oh Mark had to say what was he really. Where’s his heart. Right on his sleeve. He gets real upset when you know relationships don’t work out or whatever from his time on road rules or whatever.
00;52;17;14 – 00;52;40;02
Unknown
He’s he’s he’s super douche. I would really like to, try to find some former contestants of the blocks and get there, so I did. I went down a rabbit hole. Did you? I went down rabbit hole of, Reddit. And because I was, I wanted to get proof that it was a scam and I couldn’t find any quote unquote scam type things.
00;52;40;05 – 00;53;04;01
Unknown
But it definitely was not an environment. You and I would have been excited about. It was it’s the type of people who want validation, want the community, have no idea what they’re doing with their business. A lot of it is just side gig type of stuff. And then I went to some of their Instagram, so there was nothing necessarily negative about it.
00;53;04;01 – 00;53;37;01
Unknown
It just was very, very, very beginner type. But I want people I want to meet and, and talk to the kind of person who thinks that that contract was okay. That’s that’s was my question a contract that if you read it you would die first three sentences. That’s like absolutely not. That was my concern. And that’s why in that message back I said you know, you are scamming newbie entrepreneurs who want an opportunity to be on TV.
00;53;37;01 – 00;54;07;00
Unknown
Many of them probably just hoping to get some notoriety for their business to have, like, you know, Tori, it’s, not it’s not. Okay. And that’s where the the boundary piece comes in for me. So the important part of this discussion for me is it was okay to feel that sense of sadness. It’s okay. I had the same reaction you did, Scott, where I, I, I wanted to bargain with.
00;54;07;00 – 00;54;25;02
Unknown
Well, could I just change this about the contract or that about the contract? Right. Or will are they really saying something that is of value and am I just missing it? Those are all very empathic responses. Am I just not understanding from their point of view where they’re coming from? I’ve never been on a reality TV show before.
00;54;25;02 – 00;54;49;07
Unknown
I have never, you know, had to deal with this number of people who probably do take advantage of situations, right? I, I was really trying to give the benefit of the doubt, and I found that you’re more likely to give the benefit of the doubt when it’s something you really want, and when you’re willing to overlook things, when it’s something that you really want, right, has a different than an a relationship, you know what this reminds me of?
00;54;49;09 – 00;55;12;19
Unknown
When I was 18, 19 years old, I had a band and, oh, you told the story of the guy who convinced you? Yeah. Yeah, this is exact. This is. So. I wanted that to happen so badly that I completely overlooked all the red flags and everything that. That said, this guy’s a he’s totally a piece. Yeah, he’s totally, like, turn.
00;55;12;22 – 00;55;31;25
Unknown
And it’s. I don’t know if he was actually, I can’t imagine there was anything for him to gain, except that he was making himself seem more important than he actually was. Because he wasn’t. He never asked us for money or anything like that. But maybe that was, you know, that was down the line. Who knows?
00;55;31;27 – 00;55;56;28
Unknown
Yeah. It’s terrible. And so that part is a really normal part of empathy. And that’s what happens when you’re an empathic person and you want something in you care, is that you are constantly trying to see even in that really shitty contract. I was trying to understand their point of view. So two things are important to me. They’re one, you surround yourself with people who don’t have the emotional attachment that you do to the situation, right?
00;55;56;28 – 00;56;28;09
Unknown
In this case, it was my attorney. And then take what they have to say also empathically, right? So I, I second guessed that feedback a lot because I didn’t know the motive or where it was coming from. Is she just trying to protect me? Is there any feelings of, you know. Being disappointed that, she’s not also going to be on the show?
00;56;28;09 – 00;56;47;01
Unknown
You know, that’s for sure now. Right? But, I didn’t I had to assess that. I had to determine, like, because she’s also a business owner herself. Right. Is there fear that people have of being on a reality TV show? Is it all protection, like everyone comes to every conversation with their backpack on that’s full of their own experiences, right.
00;56;47;03 – 00;57;12;28
Unknown
So the part I want to really emphasize about empathy is it’s okay to look at a situation that doesn’t feel right on the surface and still have empathy for that, right to still second guess that. And that’s exactly what I did. I felt sad about it. And then I felt shame and guilt that maybe I had caused the reaction that I initial reaction I got from Ruth.
00;57;13;00 – 00;57;38;04
Unknown
So there were some trigger words in that email. One was, we’ve never had experiences that you’re calling out. The term calling out for me was a trigger because I’m like, yeah, I don’t I don’t. Calling out to me means I’m putting you on blast that, this, this, this and this. And I wasn’t doing that. I was literally copying and pasting the reviews that were from the site.
00;57;38;10 – 00;57;59;17
Unknown
Well, let’s be really clear. You never would have looked up reviews of that hotel. Nonetheless, Morgan put it there. Here’s the reason I’m concerned about what this state’s in the contract. Yes. And here’s the here’s the reasons. Yes. I want you to review them and be aware. Yes, of what you’re entering into. She even said here’s one positive review.
00;57;59;18 – 00;58;29;26
Unknown
Right. There are fewer and far between. But here’s a couple positive reviews that are in here, right from from more recently. Right. So you have the empathy, the response. You have the sadness response. You have the bargaining response of like, oh, how can I still make this work? But then when the boundary comes in, what happened for me, the I remember the trigger of the boundary being set was, is it okay for you to ask questions?
00;58;29;26 – 00;58;51;04
Unknown
This is me asking myself. The answer is yes. What do you know about people who respond to questions in this way? The answer is they’re hiding something. It was that linear of an equation for me, and that’s what gave me permission, if you will, to say it’s okay for me to set a boundary the minute I said that out loud, it felt like unfairness.
00;58;51;05 – 00;59;13;06
Unknown
Here’s where my neurodivergent comes into play again. Right? Because it’s not fair for me to ask you a question and for you to have that type of response. I struggle with this my whole life. I ask a ridiculous number of questions. I don’t come from that same place of passive aggressiveness and like asking a question within my question and asking a convoluted question.
00;59;13;06 – 00;59;31;13
Unknown
But in fact, I hate when people do that. I say constantly, are you asking a question or making a statement? So are you going to do the dishes today? Is that a real question, or are you making a statement? Do you mean to be saying to me, the dishes have been sitting in the sink for two weeks, and I’d really appreciate it if you did it, which one?
00;59;31;13 – 00;59;56;24
Unknown
Because I prefer the statements. Don’t try and communicate with me in this fake ass. I’m going to ask a question way, but it’s not really a question I can’t read between those lines and then I’m annoyed. And that happened a lot during my childhood. There were constant questions that weren’t questions everyone knew the answer. We just weren’t going to say what that answer was out loud, right?
00;59;56;26 – 01;00;20;28
Unknown
So that’s a big trigger for me. So here I am asking what I feel are reasonable questions. And they were needed. You could confirm for me that they were reasonable at that point. My boundary is set, I’m completely clear and I don’t go back on that. So for me that boundary line is have I been able to make logical sense out of an emotional situation?
01;00;21;01 – 01;00;42;24
Unknown
And then do I feel justified at the end of the day with what my reaction is going to be? If that formula all comes together, that’s when I can successfully set a boundary. I say successfully, that might not be the right word. I’m really clear about setting those boundaries almost to the point where I’m incredibly stubborn and won’t go back on it.
01;00;42;26 – 01;01;02;16
Unknown
So I knew if Ruth wrote back I was not going to read the email, I was just going to to move it into my blocks folder that I had started. Why? Because if anything ever came up, legally or otherwise, I wanted to make sure I had that response, but I was going to refuse to read it. I that was clear to me.
01;01;02;16 – 01;01;26;01
Unknown
Nothing was going to make me change my mind. Right. If I go and set a boundary on something and I’m very clear with you about something, I’m not, I’m not going back on that. I’m not someone who’s wishy washy. If I say I’m not going to talk to my neighbor anymore because I can justify the fact that this, this and this happened, I’m not talking to the neighbor again.
01;01;26;06 – 01;01;50;18
Unknown
Right. That part is my question about do you find in your own boundary setting, both of you, for that is the same process that you go through, or is it more wishy washy? Oh, wishy washy for sure, because I’m terrible of boundaries. Okay. Yeah. How do you know when to set a boundary? I don’t you don’t I that’s not your feeling.
01;01;50;18 – 01;02;09;27
Unknown
I know when to do it. I don’t know how to do it effectively and maintain it. So will you set the boundary or because, you know you should be setting a boundary but don’t know how to set it? Will you just not set it? I will not set it or I will attempt to set it and it doesn’t feel good.
01;02;09;27 – 01;02;34;01
Unknown
And I don’t like all the feelings and the emotional baggage that comes with that. So I either just avoid it or, disengage. I think that’s so common. What about you, Scott? I am I always seem to make the mistake of, kind of like burying my head in the sand and just hoping that the boundary is going to establish itself.
01;02;34;03 – 01;02;55;25
Unknown
And kind of walk that line and be like. But lately I’ve been, I’ve been getting better at actually just thinking about it beforehand when I make, when I make a new acquaintance, I think to myself, what are my boundaries here, how I make for every interaction I try to think about what am I, how am I going to respond and why?
01;02;55;28 – 01;03;18;01
Unknown
And I’ve learned that from this podcast. I tell you guys all the time, I have a no for 48 rule. That’s one of the things that I do to set my boundary is I’m not always great about setting those boundaries. And so I’ll just say yes to everything. And one of the ways that I’ve combated that is by saying, I say no for 48 hours.
01;03;18;01 – 01;03;34;08
Unknown
And if at the end of 48 hours, I still feel very strongly that I should be on the PTA, or I should go and write back to Ruth, or I should, you know, whatever. Ruth’s a bad example. I found that one real quick. That I will go back and I will entertain that or I will, I will do that.
01;03;34;08 – 01;03;58;28
Unknown
But I have to give myself a natural 48 hour pause, be cut, a pause, the pause. Look at my pauses, 48 hour pause, pause, pause. Everybody’s got to pause. Yeah. In order to give myself that natural stopping point. Right. Or thought process time to time to, really see how I feel about it. What is that called debris for?
01;03;59;00 – 01;04;20;12
Unknown
Yeah. Or picking a process or. Yeah. Here’s it. Here’s a good, I’m going to cross over a boundary and say it’s time to end the fucking podcast. I was very clear. I appreciate that you ended it there. There were kinder ways to do that, that we could talk about it in the future. And, he, he does he he flashes the legacy thing.
01;04;20;12 – 01;04;36;00
Unknown
And you still don’t get it. When did you say no? He didn’t do it this time. I haven’t done that in forever. No, but I say when you do that guide. She thinks. She thinks that’s a glitch. And I think I think you say. And I might say you didn’t screw it up. I’m. No, no, I maybe if we established a boundary in it.
01;04;36;07 – 01;04;55;25
Unknown
Oh my God, I can’t, I can’t, but that’s terribly rude. Which one when I, when I turn when I do this the legacy. Yeah. No, that’s rude at all. What. Which one. What. Which one was more rude. It’s time to stop the fucking podcast or the the legacy. Which one is. Which one was more wrote yeah, I got Laura back.
01;04;55;25 – 01;05;16;20
Unknown
I’m sorry, but we don’t have time for your hippie bullshit shit because Scott hippie Scott just do the hippie though. You can. You can still end the podcast properly. Just do the wrap it up now. Okay, so our card today is the star, which I know we’ve had before. And it says, and I don’t know if this is going to actually relate now or not, because I had no idea what we were going to talk about.
01;05;16;20 – 01;05;37;24
Unknown
But it says like the OG version of Hashtag Blast, this card unleashes a meteor shower of celestial gifts and restores your glowing faith in the universe. Shake hands with magic and let let it mainline some prescription grade warm and fuzzy straight into your crown chakra. You’ll remember what a radiant star you are and won’t stand for anyone trying to dim that light.
01;05;37;24 – 01;06;02;26
Unknown
Now go find your car keys so you can head out and shine bright. Now let you dim my lights I love you. Look at the black sheep on I loved that. Me too. Isn’t empathy amazing? Well we’re amazing. I don’t know about all that sympathy stuff. That’s fine. I accept you wherever you are. Oh, God, I love you.
01;06;02;28 – 01;06;25;08
Unknown
I love you too. And if you love us, please like and subscribe to more. Love the Power of Empathy podcast wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.
