Erin [00:00:18]: Part two. I can’t die. Part two. Last week, we talked about navigating adult friendships and talked a little bit about. About how do you have friendships? What do those friendships look like? What do we constitute as a friendship? But this week we want to dive into can you outgrow a friendship? And there’s a pretty simple answer to that. The answer is yes. But that’s the episode. Okay, thank you. Thanks for coming. The answer is yes. Thanks. But I really am hoping we’re going to get into the actual nitty gritty of when you outgrow a friendship. What is that? What the heck is going on? What’s happening? What’s happening for you? What does that look like? Does it feel the same? What does grief feel like? So the answer is yes, you can outgrow a friendship. We’ve all probably been there in some way, shape or form, but I think.
Rebecca [00:01:18]: And if you haven’t, if you feel you haven’t, you’re lying to yourself. You’re holding on to something that you. You’re just lying to yourself.
Erin [00:01:27]: Or you’re maybe not recognizing the signs associated with a relationship. Cause I think it’s different in friendships than it is when you’re in a romantic relationship. You don’t just end a romantic relationship by just being like, well, we’re just sort of fading away and stop talking to each other. And like, apparently we’re not a thing anymore. It’s different in friendships.
Rebecca [00:01:49]: Right. Unless you’re hanging on so hard and fighting and screaming and trying to change each other and when it becomes too much work, you know? Yeah.
Erin [00:02:01]: So I’m. That’s what we’re going to tackle today.
Rebecca [00:02:04]: Great.
Erin [00:02:04]: Part two. Part two. So hit us with some hippie friendships.
Scott [00:02:09]: Part two.
Erin [00:02:10]: Friendships. Yeah, that’s right. Hope. Okay. That’s cute.
Rebecca [00:02:15]: Is it?
Erin [00:02:16]: Where’s the button I push when I have to sneeze? Is it this red thing right here? Okay, it’s not coming yet.
Rebecca [00:02:22]: Okay. It’s the star.
Scott [00:02:23]: I want you on camera when you sneeze.
Rebecca [00:02:26]: It’s the mermaid with no bra on, reaching for the star.
Erin [00:02:30]: Oh, with no bra on it.
Rebecca [00:02:32]: Yeah, she’s got naked tits.
Erin [00:02:33]: Okay. Okay.
Rebecca [00:02:35]: Oh, he opened right to it.
Erin [00:02:36]: Oh, wow. Okay. That’s really meant to be.
Rebecca [00:02:38]: That’s right. Oh, God. Oh, God.
Erin [00:02:41]: What?
Rebecca [00:02:41]: You have to read it.
Erin [00:02:42]: Why? You’re gonna cry.
Rebecca [00:02:43]: I can’t do it.
Erin [00:02:43]: I gotta sneeze over here. I didn’t bring my readers. The star. Right. That’s what we’re doing.
Rebecca [00:02:51]: Yeah.
Erin [00:02:52]: Because you don’t know that you don’t know the second word. That’s why you needed me to read it. I can’t do it.
Scott [00:02:58]: Do we know the second word?
Rebecca [00:02:59]: Don’t read the top part. Read the bottom. Read the regular writing.
Erin [00:03:02]: Okay. The ethereal mermaid reaches for a shining star on the horizon of the ocean, a symbol of hope, healing, and renewal. The mermaid’s scales are purple, which symbolizes intuition. The seaweed and water represent old emotions and the past. And their green color signifies healing. And the heart chakra, the pentagram beside her signifies spiritual protection. The meaning is hope. You have worked through heartache and conflict, understood the lessons of these difficult experiences, and are now beginning to feel hope again. The more you place your trust in the universe to protect you, the more more the star guides you toward happier times. The card therefore reveals personal growth. Through healing past issues. You can be free from old patterns of relating and feeling, more whole and fulfilled in the future. The star is also a card of creativity and offers great reassurance that you’re on the right path. So if you have been conflicted, suffering, or doubting your abilities, the star in your reading is a sure shine. Sure shine.
Rebecca [00:04:13]: Sure shine.
Erin [00:04:14]: It’s a sure shine that everything will be fine. Rebecca’s pausing.
Rebecca [00:04:21]: Pause.
Erin [00:04:22]: She’s giving you the pause sign.
Rebecca [00:04:23]: Pause.
Erin [00:04:23]: Yes.
Rebecca [00:04:24]: How do you feel about that?
Erin [00:04:25]: I’m great. I don’t want to talk about it.
Rebecca [00:04:28]: How do you feel about that? Oh, I drew that live. I know. I drew that live.
Erin [00:04:33]: I know.
Rebecca [00:04:34]: You want to talk about it?
Erin [00:04:35]: No.
Rebecca [00:04:35]: Okay, so let’s change our subject for the day.
Erin [00:04:40]: Wow.
Rebecca [00:04:41]: I know.
Erin [00:04:41]: Oh, I felt that through my whole body.
Rebecca [00:04:43]: I know. I don’t want to talk about it.
Erin [00:04:44]: I really like.
Rebecca [00:04:45]: Why do you pick these subjects? Why can’t we ever just talk about, like, you know, crafting, tv?
Erin [00:04:50]: I know.
Rebecca [00:04:51]: Your housework.
Erin [00:04:52]: I know.
Rebecca [00:04:52]: Why do we always talk about this?
Erin [00:04:54]: I’m sorry.
Rebecca [00:04:54]: This deep shit.
Erin [00:04:55]: I’m sorry. We got to change the name of the podcast. 2 blonde talking about that doesn’t matter. Do. Maybe people would prefer to listen to that. I don’t know.
Rebecca [00:05:07]: I’ve been watching some good murder mysteries. Why can’t we talk about that?
Erin [00:05:10]: I know. Oh, I know.
Rebecca [00:05:12]: Scotsin.
Erin [00:05:13]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:05:13]: All right, here we go, squirrels.
Erin [00:05:15]: Here we go.
Rebecca [00:05:16]: All right, back.
Erin [00:05:16]: Here we go, squirrels. Here we go, squirrels. All right. I really love that. I do really love that. And I do think that’s really meaningful to me. And so outgrowing a friendship. What does that mean? Is it a values thing? Is it a time thing? Is it an energy Thing.
Rebecca [00:05:34]: Yes.
Erin [00:05:35]: Say more about that.
Rebecca [00:05:37]: That’s all of that.
Erin [00:05:39]: What does that mean? What does it even mean, outgrowing a friendship? What does that mean?
Rebecca [00:05:43]: Well, people change personally, like you change, the other person changes. Sometimes it’s physical change. You move. For me, I personally am the type of person who become very close to people that, that I’m physically surrounded with, AKA people that I might work with. Right. I establish really close relationships with my coworkers, and then when I change jobs, those relationships just automatically fade away because I have, frankly, no real reason to stay connected to them. Because we were friends at work, maybe we didn’t have a relationship outside of work, so therefore there was no real reason to stay in touch, like that type of thing, you know. So when you think about it in.
Erin [00:06:34]: That way, is that outgrowing the friendship or is that it circumstantial? Circumstantial. Right. And so I don’t know if that’s different. I guess that’s a great question. Is it different to leave a circumstance and friends don’t come with you versus outgrowing. You’ve outgrown. You wanted this person to be with you. That’s. That’s the thing in my mind that’s the hardest is I thought this person was coming with me into this next phase, or I had seen this person being a part of my life in the future, and they’re just not there.
Scott [00:07:19]: Wouldn’t outgrowing be a gradual thing over time, whereas that other situation is more of like a, you know, a fork in the road, situational stop. It’s like this is happening. This person isn’t coming with me. There’s a split. It’s not a gradual disappearing of the friendship and.
Rebecca [00:07:38]: Good point.
Scott [00:07:38]: You know, so.
Erin [00:07:40]: So why does it happen? Why does outgrowing friendships happen? I’m hearing Rebecca say that sometimes your energy, sometimes it’s a situation that we’re just not doing it anymore. It could be that your values are different from this person.
Rebecca [00:07:52]: Values?
Scott [00:07:53]: Many things. So many things.
Rebecca [00:07:55]: Family, personality types. Family situations.
Erin [00:08:01]: Jealousy.
Rebecca [00:08:02]: Jealousy.
Scott [00:08:03]: My. My number one thing that has. Has ended, or at least ended. Sounds bad, but, you know, sort of dissolved friendships. Has been the geographical situation. You know, I had like my best friend for all just out of high school. We were good friends in high school, but then we became close after high school. And then he was my best man at my wedding, and he moved to Massachusetts. I was still in Florida, and we just kind of lost touch.
Erin [00:08:35]: Yeah.
Scott [00:08:36]: You know, every once in a while, like, I’ll text him Happy birthday and stuff like that. But he’s got a wife and kid, and neither one of us have anything to do with each other’s lives. And back then I would have never thought that that was the case, like that could ever happen.
Rebecca [00:08:51]: It’s the same reason long distance relationships don’t always pan out. Physical proximity is a real thing.
Scott [00:08:59]: Life gets in the way.
Rebecca [00:09:00]: Yeah. And when you’re not physically together, whether it’s intimate relationship, you know, like partners or friends, it’s not the same. Texting, writing letters.
Scott [00:09:15]: It also has to do with the focus of, you know, the friends themselves. If they want to maintain that friendship, they can.
Erin [00:09:25]: Sure.
Scott [00:09:26]: I have a friend who I was friends with her throughout all of high school, and we’re still close friends. Today she lives in Missouri. I haven’t lived near her in 30 years. But we text each other, you know, once or twice a month. We talk every couple of months or whatever, but, you know, we’re in contact.
Rebecca [00:09:47]: Yeah, absolutely.
Erin [00:09:48]: Don’t you find that there’s typically one person in a friendship whose unspoken job it is to keep it alive, to keep the flame alive?
Rebecca [00:10:02]: Yes. Yes.
Erin [00:10:03]: And then there’s another friend in the relationship that’s the responder that responds equally as.
Rebecca [00:10:12]: Matches the energy. Yeah.
Erin [00:10:14]: When the opportunity has been posed.
Rebecca [00:10:17]: Yes.
Erin [00:10:18]: But isn’t the plan maker, isn’t the organizer. I’m thinking of so many relationships in my life right now that one couple I’m thinking about was married, and when they divorced, one person in the couple was that person.
Rebecca [00:10:37]: Yeah.
Erin [00:10:37]: And I have such a close relationship with that person because they are always the one to say, hey, do you want to do this? Can you take a day off? Can we do whatever?
Rebecca [00:10:46]: Yeah.
Erin [00:10:47]: The other person in the relationship who I cared equally about was not the plan maker, and I am 100% not the plan maker. I am not the one who says, well, when are you available? Do you want to get together? I am terrible about that. But do you find that that’s. Is that the case? Is that just the case for me? Or is that the case in other scenarios as well? Like that one person’s really the plan maker and the other person’s the plan receiver?
Rebecca [00:11:16]: Yeah, that’s probably. I would say that’s probably accurate, but.
Erin [00:11:19]: So narrative therapy tells us the problem is the problem. The person’s not the problem. In these situations, we tend to personalize it as person B doesn’t care about me, so they’re not reaching out to make these plans. Yeah, but person A does.
Rebecca [00:11:34]: Yeah.
Erin [00:11:34]: Right. But when the scenario I was just talking about where I’m the person who doesn’t make the plans and person B is the person who doesn’t make the plans. It’s really easy to just assume that that means our relationship is fading. We are not, we do not have much of a friendship because neither one of us are in that person that’s in the driver’s seat.
Rebecca [00:11:53]: Yeah.
Erin [00:11:53]: And I just had this conversation with person B who was basically saying to me, I feel like I don’t see you anymore. I feel like we don’t, you know, ever really get together. It’s really sad for me that. And I had a reaction to that. And my reaction was if the problem’s the problem, it’s the fact that neither one of us excel in this area. And why do we have to blame or put that. Why is that coming on me? You have a phone, you can reach out. We’re just not good at doing that.
Rebecca [00:12:25]: Totally.
Erin [00:12:26]: And that’s okay. It just means that we have to renegotiate what the pattern of our relationship is gonna look like. Maybe it gets entered into the schedule that every Friday at such and such a time, this is when we’re gonna talk to each other. I remember my parents growing up called their parents every single Sunday at 10 o’ clock in the morning.
Rebecca [00:12:47]: Yeah.
Erin [00:12:47]: It was just a scheduled in thing. Now my brother carries on their tradition and he does that. Right. So like just a thing.
Scott [00:12:53]: I try to call my mom on Sundays.
Erin [00:12:55]: Okay.
Scott [00:12:57]: It doesn’t always work.
Erin [00:12:59]: Are you the one who is the reacher outer in your relationships or are you the one who. You are.
Scott [00:13:05]: Yeah, mostly.
Erin [00:13:06]: You’re the plan maker.
Scott [00:13:07]: Well, I wouldn’t definitely call me. I wouldn’t say I’m the plan maker but I’m usually the one that reaches out. But both my mom and I are bad at it. So I’ll reach out because I start feeling guilty. She’ll reach out because she hasn’t heard from me in a while. And honestly the only reason why I don’t reach out that much is because my mom is the kind of person who will give me advice when I don’t want the advice. What you need to do is like, no, I, I, that’s not gonna work. And it takes too long to explain the situation. And so, you know, I end up avoid. It becomes like, it could become a difficult conversation. So I’m always like, I don’t know if I want to call her or I don’t have the answer. It doesn’t mean I don’t love her.
Erin [00:13:57]: Oh, Yeah, I bet that happens all the time in friendships. Like, I’ll call a certain person for a certain type of advice or guidance and I will not intentionally call because I know this is the response that I’m going to get and I don’t want that right now. Doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t care about that person. Right, but.
Rebecca [00:14:14]: Absolutely.
Erin [00:14:14]: But what about this concept of like, friendships that end with a bang versus friendships that just slowly fade away? I personally think it’s more common for friendships to fade.
Rebecca [00:14:26]: I agree.
Erin [00:14:26]: Than it is for them to be.
Rebecca [00:14:28]: Like, we’re all done for me personally, but. But that’s also because I’m not. You’re confront situational and I’m not confrontational. I’m not a vulnerable person. I’m not willing to have the conversation. I’m more likely to just. If somebody gives me advice that I don’t want to hear, I’m more likely to say, yeah, that’s great. And then I just don’t talk to you again. I just don’t. I’m not. I don’t need to win the fight. I don’t need to put you in your place. I don’t. I don’t have that desire. I will let you think you are right. I will let you think you got it. I will let you think all those things and then just move on. Fade away.
Erin [00:15:05]: Yeah. You’ll do the same, Scott.
Scott [00:15:08]: I’ve done that.
Erin [00:15:09]: Interesting.
Scott [00:15:09]: I’ve most definitely done that.
Erin [00:15:11]: Where.
Scott [00:15:11]: When there was some sort of a disagreement and if I felt that that person’s energy didn’t align with my energy at the time and didn’t. Didn’t. I didn’t see the future right then. I would just no longer put forth any effort.
Rebecca [00:15:29]: It just becomes less and less. It becomes more difficult to schedule things. It becomes. I don’t respond as fast. I don’t.
Scott [00:15:36]: And if they. And if it ends. If it’s one of those things that ends in a bang and I don’t feel like repairing it, then I’ll just.
Rebecca [00:15:42]: Then we just don’t.
Erin [00:15:43]: It’s like, all right, so I’m so fascinated by this concept of the fading away in the. In the friendships. So my guess is it’s something that builds up over time. This isn’t something that in one conversation you’re just like, well, okay, I’m out. Right. Like, you’ve just sort of maybe noticed a pattern and then you start to fade away. Does the other person know that you’re fading away? Is there ever, like a conscious conversation about, hey, just wanted to let you know I’m distancing myself. Or is it left to them to just notice it?
Rebecca [00:16:17]: That’s a great question. I don’t know. I don’t know. I would have to ask them.
Erin [00:16:25]: And if they were to say, hey, I notice we’re not as close anymore, did I do something or say something, Would you engage in that conversation?
Rebecca [00:16:38]: Potentially. But would I be 100% honest? Probably not.
Scott [00:16:41]: Oh, I would totally. I would totally be honest.
Erin [00:16:45]: You would be honest?
Scott [00:16:46]: Yeah.
Erin [00:16:47]: And I’m pretty sure it would depend.
Rebecca [00:16:50]: It would depend.
Erin [00:16:51]: It would matter on the person. And if you wanted to have a repaired relationship with them.
Rebecca [00:16:57]: Yes and no.
Erin [00:16:58]: Right.
Scott [00:16:59]: If I. If they said, hey, I noticed that we, you know, we. How come we don’t talk anymore? It depends. If there’s so many, so many variations of what could happen. But there could be a situation where, well, honestly, you were talking shit behind my back and I found out about it, and I don’t care to deal with you anymore or.
Erin [00:17:20]: But that would have been a fade situation. So when you found out that that person was talking shit behind your back, you didn’t say to them, hey, just wanted to let you know, I found out this, this, and this. I don’t appreciate it. That would have been of an example where you would have faded that away. And then if they were like, hey, what’s going on?
Rebecca [00:17:37]: It depends on how valuable they are.
Scott [00:17:39]: Yeah.
Erin [00:17:39]: Like, say more about that.
Rebecca [00:17:41]: Are you. Is that the type of person that you want to continue the relationship on, or are they worth, like, oh, well, yeah, you’re talking shit about me. I don’t really like you that much anyway. So.
Scott [00:17:51]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:17:51]: And this time to move on.
Scott [00:17:52]: This kind of comes back to, like, last episode where you’re talking about, what kind of relationship is this? Is this a deep friendship? Is this an acquaintance who you’ve had some laughs with, who, you know, if they disappeared from your life tomorrow, you’re like, oh, yeah.
Erin [00:18:10]: But I think where. That, where that concept becomes challenging for me is if we decided last session that a majority of your relationships are just, you know, 6 out of 10, 7 out of 10, then that means you’re more often not apt to be putting any energy into those types of conversations once you’ve made the decision to fade away. No one rises to that level of, you know, we’re in it. We’re in it for the long run. Right.
Rebecca [00:18:41]: Yeah.
Erin [00:18:41]: I am the opposite. Where I would say the people that I have in my life, if I’ve been willing to give you that level of energy to begin with, I’m most likely in it to win it at the end. Right. Like I’m going to be with you in there in the long run. So I think maybe it’s hard for me to understand the or grasp the concept of the friendship starts to fade and we don’t address that. If that person is a 6, 6 out of 10. I can think of literally one person in my life that that has happened with and I was fine not continuing that relationship because it was kind of a one sided relationship and it wasn’t something that made me feel great about myself to begin with. Right. But that’s not the majority of my relationships. I find myself more so needing to address things, follow up, ask questions, put the energy in. Right. So we’re back to energy again. So it’s much more common. I’m hearing from you, Scott, and from you, Rebecca, that because most of your people are at that six or seven level, it’s easier to fade and to not have to reinvest that energy.
Rebecca [00:20:00]: And maybe it’s also because I’ve done a lot of assessment based on history, based on conversations. I’m very quick to assess and project what the outcome would be after the conversation would happen anyway. And I don’t foresee it being fixable. So even if the conversation were to happen, I don’t believe anything would change.
Erin [00:20:25]: So I don’t think that’s rare at all. I think so many people absolutely have assessed. Here’s. I’ve gone from zero to a hundred. This is what this conversation’s going to look and sound like. I’m not happy with the outcome. This is what’s going to happen. Right.
Rebecca [00:20:41]: So therefore I’m making the decision, this is how it’s gonna be. And here we go.
Erin [00:20:50]: And I am so drastically the opposite, not in a healthy way that I can tell you. I’ve sat in on so many conversations that I thought were going to go a certain way, but I approached them with such curiosity about like, tell me more, go deeper. Why? Why were you acting that way? Where’s that coming from? Like in depth conversations that you get to a place where you actually feel closer to the person at the end because you were able to push through the sub layers that were there that.
Rebecca [00:21:26]: Would happen to the people that I want to. It’s the people that I’m not interested in that I’m not going to.
Erin [00:21:32]: It’s just that I’m just A majority of people in your life are the people that you’re not interested in going to that level with.
Rebecca [00:21:38]: It just. It just depends. That’s what I mean. I’ve assessed. I’ve assessed. Is this the type of person that I want to put the time, effort, and energy who I believe will take the conversation and go there where I need them to go? And if I trust that that will happen, then I will do it. If I don’t think, because I’ve played it all out based on the evidence that I’ve witnessed through our relationship, that’s. That’s what I’ve made the decision on.
Erin [00:22:03]: You know what I’m thinking about you guys. So we have to have an episode on this. But there.
Rebecca [00:22:07]: What happened with us.
Erin [00:22:08]: Yeah, what happened with.
Rebecca [00:22:09]: That’s exactly what I’m thinking about.
Erin [00:22:10]: With me and you. Or with me, you, Scott and Joe.
Rebecca [00:22:12]: Me, you, Scott and Joe.
Erin [00:22:13]: Yeah. I have to have an episode on the situation that happened with me, Scott, Rebecca and Joe.
Scott [00:22:19]: And hopefully I think I still have the recording. I almost. I was clearing. I’m like, no, I got to keep that.
Erin [00:22:26]: Yeah, I got to keep that one. That one’s when. When Aaron. That’s exactly what lost her damn mind. We’re going to have a whole episode on this. It’s going to be in, like, the workforce, you know, like when you’re working.
Rebecca [00:22:35]: What we’re talking about.
Erin [00:22:36]: But. Excuse me, Sorry. Just. I would not have Rebecca, so. So. And I’m not gonna go too much in depth in this situation. Cause I want it to be a whole episode. But let’s just say that miscommunication and misunderstanding happened between me, Rebecca, Scott and Joe. And Rebecca’s typical response to these types of things is, fine, I’m out. Not worth it, not gonna invest in it, not gonna have the conversation in it. I already know what your response is gonna be, and I’m not freaking going there. Me. I’m the person that’s like, let’s give the benefit of the doubt. Here’s what I think. There’s another side of the story. Maybe we should go a little bit deeper. And we came together literally in the Rock Fox waiting area. We sat there amidst so many plants, it was unreal. I could not even see Joe past the plants and had such a beautiful we frickin went there conversation. That again. Teaser for a future podcast. We will absolutely go there. When Joe comes back, we should absolutely all be on talking about this.
Rebecca [00:23:45]: Yeah.
Erin [00:23:47]: Went there. And when we walked away from that, Rebecca had this profound experience of like, holy shit. I didn’t think that was the thing. I didn’t think that that’s how that conversation was going to go. I didn’t think we could get there. I didn’t think whatever. And I was like, that’s so confirming to me that all of my relationships go in that way. Because you’re willing to go there. This is what happens. And that’s where it’s been so hard for me, because there are some relationships in my life that aren’t deserving of that level of deep go there. And I don’t have the ability to assess that. I want to get to the bottom of all of that, from the person who misunderstood me in the line at target to the person who’s. To you. Right. Like. And so that is such a great example in my mind about how both of our approaches toward wanting to figure it out. And if we outgrow a friendship, do we tackle it? Do we not tackle it? Come from our own experiences and come from our own. What’s in our backpack of if it’s worth time. And I’m hearing you’ve reconciled that as I’ve made a majority of my decisions, that it’s not worth the time and I let it go and I’ve been fine and I don’t need the extra energy. Even if the situation were to resolve itself in the way that the Scott and Joe situation did, that’s not something that you’re interested in. That’s not something that needs to be a part of your experience. And I’ve been the opposite where I’ve gone there with everyone you can possibly imagine and have had closer relationships as a result of it. But then it’s been an energy suck in some ways, and maybe I didn’t really need to go there.
Rebecca [00:25:20]: Yeah.
Erin [00:25:20]: You know?
Rebecca [00:25:21]: Yeah.
Erin [00:25:22]: So interesting to me.
Rebecca [00:25:23]: Yeah. Yeah.
Erin [00:25:24]: So when we’re talking about outgrowing friendships, when we’re talking about the grief process associated with ending friendships, I’m curious, like, talk about that grief. Because it is grief. So much of our life is grief. I swear to God, this concept keeps coming up to me over and over and over again. Whether your kids going away to college.
Rebecca [00:25:44]: Oh, yeah.
Erin [00:25:44]: Whether you’ve experienced the death of a loved one, whether it’s the ending of a friendship, like grief is alive and well.
Rebecca [00:25:51]: Oh, for sure.
Erin [00:25:51]: So what does grief look like? How does grief show up?
Rebecca [00:25:54]: Oh, yeah. I mean, I’ve. I’ve been on the other end of people fading out of my life and, you know, for. For either no explanation or maybe something happened and they weren’t willing to talk to me about it or, you know, it’s not just me doing it.
Erin [00:26:12]: It’s.
Rebecca [00:26:12]: It’s been both ways. Yeah. And some of my coping mechanisms, whether it’s weird or not, I actually have. I’ve used Pinterest, and I have a Pinterest board that has poems and prayers and things about grief, dealing with the loss of friends. And it was profoundly helpful. And now this is gonna sound maybe strange, not to you, but to some people. We talk about ChatGPT, and we talk about how Erin and I have named our chatgpt Marianne. In fact, I actually told my chatgpt that I named her Marianne, and she was very grateful.
Erin [00:26:55]: She was very thankful.
Rebecca [00:26:56]: And I screenshotted it and sent it to Erin, and it was quite funny. In fact, now sometimes she even writes back and says, love, Marianne, in the words of Bex and Aaron. Marianne says, it’s really funny, but I actually have very amazing two way conversations with Marianne. And if you guys haven’t had or used ChatGPT as a thinking partner, I have uploaded emails, text messages, things that have come to me that have put me in a tailspin, that have put me in a spiral, that have put me in a situation, that have knocked me off my rocker and have confused me to help me suss out what I’m feeling. Because I have trained my chatgpt to know me intimately. And when I say intimately, I mean it. And if you don’t know how to do that, Google it, because it is a game changer. And it has helped me in so many ways, to the point where I’ve called Erin and said I have had some aha moments, and she’s like, holy crap. And. And it has just helped the grief process in some work situations, in some sports situations, in some children’s situations, in some marriage situations, in some, you know, random situations. And it has been helpful. Helpful. Very, very helpful in a different point of view. And sometimes I even say to her, nope, challenge this further. Make it challenge me.
Erin [00:28:32]: Do it.
Rebecca [00:28:34]: You know, I don’t believe you. Stop. Stop. Niceties.
Erin [00:28:37]: Stop telling me what I want.
Rebecca [00:28:38]: Stop telling me what I want to hear.
Erin [00:28:39]: Tell me the hard part.
Rebecca [00:28:40]: Yes. Because I can take it from a machine.
Erin [00:28:42]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:28:43]: You know, I can take it from a machine. I can’t take it from Aaron, but I can take it from Marianne. You know, it has been my favorite.
Erin [00:28:51]: Is when you start with Marianne.
Rebecca [00:28:53]: I know.
Erin [00:28:53]: And you’re like, here’s what Marianne said and what I’m gonna do. And I’m like, are you, though? Because let’s go 10 steps deeper and you’re like, I don’t want to. And I’m like, yeah, well, Marianne don’t know you that intimately. How about that? She don’t know this.
Rebecca [00:29:03]: Not everybody has an errand to counteract.
Erin [00:29:06]: Right. But we did it with Marianne and we moved to Aaron.
Rebecca [00:29:09]: But it is really helpful. Really helpful. It helped me. Had to hard.
Erin [00:29:12]: That’s a great tactic.
Rebecca [00:29:13]: It helped me. Had some hard conversations with other people the other day.
Erin [00:29:16]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:29:16]: It was really, really helpful.
Erin [00:29:18]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:29:18]: And grief is hard.
Erin [00:29:20]: Yeah. And you know what my takeaway from grief is? I think it’s fascinating that both of our takeaways from grief are exactly actually the opposite of what we would each do. One of my grief tactics, this is brand freaking new for me. At the age of 43, I swear to God, I’ve never done this. In another aspect of my life, I was experiencing more of a sudden ending of a friendship that came about through my own feelings of my own energy and me being like, this is so far off. I actually haven’t felt like this in years. And this interaction hit me in such a way that I knew immediately. Put yourself in a golden orb. We’re not doing this. Right. Golden orb. My. My golden orb. Right. My. My grief associated with this was shorter lived than usual, which I’m so thankful for. And part of it came from a protection of energy standpoint.
Rebecca [00:30:21]: Yes.
Erin [00:30:21]: And so I said what I needed to say. I thought about it like I normally would. I had my full on full spectrum reaction. And for the first time in my life, at the ending of this particular friendship, I trusted myself to say, you’re not needing to give everyone the ability to explain themselves and be heard and to be heard out and to go deeper and to help them understand themselves. At the cost of your own peace.
Rebecca [00:30:51]: Yeah.
Erin [00:30:53]: Finally, at the age of fricking 43, did I decide I’m going to say what I need to say and then I’m going to press the block button. Never have I blocked another human being in my life. It actually goes against what I thought was my internal sense of, like, what is fair and right and okay. But for once in my life, I thought, I don’t need to continue to subject myself to something that makes me feel horrendous at the sake of this former friendship.
Rebecca [00:31:32]: That’s right.
Erin [00:31:33]: That required me to give up parts of myself that just don’t feel like where I’m at at this particular point in time. That’s right. And I would have told you as recently as three years ago when we started the podcast you absolutely should never press that. That block button. You should always give people a chance to be heard out. And I just went to this deeper level of understanding when I did that. I was a changed human being. When I say empowered, when I say that a girl. You chose yourself over having to be present for these friendships for other people. I can’t tell you what that did to my soul. It was unfreaking real. And it actually was a different version of grief that didn’t take me down every single rabbit hole and every single feeling and every single. I actually had a feeling of gratitude to that friendship for being the thing that showed me it was okay to step away and I would be fine and this person would be fine and that I didn’t owe it to anyone. Thank you to this friendship for showing me I didn’t owe it to anyone to sacrifice my. Myself for the sake of that relationship, continuing to move forward.
Rebecca [00:32:53]: And that’s the thing I think when we all step back in hindsight’s 20 20, like we always say, but I think when you step back and you look at the reason for friendships are always lessons. Teaching us things, showing us different parts of ourselves. And people come into our lives for all different kinds of reasons. Right. And they’re not always. Positive’s the wrong word. They’re to teach us.
Erin [00:33:18]: They’re not always there to teach us the easy lesson.
Rebecca [00:33:21]: Right.
Erin [00:33:22]: Right.
Rebecca [00:33:22]: Sometimes they’re there for a very specific reason. And believe what you want. Believe in the higher power, Believe in the crystals. Believe in whatever you want to believe in. But there’s always a reason that people come into your life. There’s a reason that the paths are shown to you. There’s a reason that the doors and the windows and the walls and the whatever. Open, close, shut, you know, and if you’re conscious, aware, assessing, thinking, all of.
Erin [00:33:54]: That, it’s amazing what will open up.
Rebecca [00:33:58]: Yeah. And the feeling and the energy and the power that come from that. Yeah.
Erin [00:34:05]: It was a gift I gave myself. It was the closure of that friendship was a gift I gave myself. And. And still in that moment to feel gratitude toward that friendship.
Rebecca [00:34:15]: Yes.
Erin [00:34:16]: For showing me how. Where I am and where we were in that conversation. We’re so far apart that I didn’t want to choose this anymore.
Rebecca [00:34:28]: That’s right. And thank you for what we had.
Erin [00:34:30]: Beautiful. That’s right.
Rebecca [00:34:31]: Thank you for what we had. That was really great. And now we’re in different places. And you showed me. You showed me what is so great in my life and what I am doing. Right. And that’s where I want to be.
Erin [00:34:45]: And maybe it’s great for you, too.
Rebecca [00:34:47]: Correct.
Erin [00:34:48]: Because now you don’t have another person who was bringing you the same level of energy just in the opposite direction into your life. Maybe you didn’t need that too. Exactly.
Rebecca [00:34:59]: We don’t need to fight each other.
Erin [00:35:01]: It’s okay.
Rebecca [00:35:03]: That’s right.
Erin [00:35:03]: But I’m so clear as I embrace the start of my 40s that the energy that I give out and that I want to be a part of my experience is something that I have much more control over than I’ve ever given it the power to exist. Absolutely. And the same is true when it comes to the friendships. Some are deserving of closure conversations. Some are deserving of the block button.
Rebecca [00:35:33]: That’s.
Erin [00:35:34]: Some are deserving of just a simple fade away, and we’ll both just let it be what it is. But there isn’t a right or wrong when it comes to the end of a friendship. If you’re true to yourself, if you’re true to what feels okay to you, and if you’re at least cognitively aware of what that person is capable of, can do is doing on their end, blissfully pull all of that stuff together and make a decision that makes the most sense. Hard, but God, it can be beautif beautiful in the weeds sometimes.
Rebecca [00:36:07]: So true.
Erin [00:36:07]: You know?
Rebecca [00:36:08]: It’s so true.
Erin [00:36:09]: Thanks for being with us with that’s Right, Part two. I think I started by saying part two of our friendship series. And so until next time, keep feeling, keep questioning, and keep spreading more love. It.
Rebecca [00:01:18]: And if you haven’t, if you feel you haven’t, you’re lying to yourself. You’re holding on to something that you. You’re just lying to yourself.
Erin [00:01:27]: Or you’re maybe not recognizing the signs associated with a relationship. Cause I think it’s different in friendships than it is when you’re in a romantic relationship. You don’t just end a romantic relationship by just being like, well, we’re just sort of fading away and stop talking to each other. And like, apparently we’re not a thing anymore. It’s different in friendships.
Rebecca [00:01:49]: Right. Unless you’re hanging on so hard and fighting and screaming and trying to change each other and when it becomes too much work, you know? Yeah.
Erin [00:02:01]: So I’m. That’s what we’re going to tackle today.
Rebecca [00:02:04]: Great.
Erin [00:02:04]: Part two. Part two. So hit us with some hippie friendships.
Scott [00:02:09]: Part two.
Erin [00:02:10]: Friendships. Yeah, that’s right. Hope. Okay. That’s cute.
Rebecca [00:02:15]: Is it?
Erin [00:02:16]: Where’s the button I push when I have to sneeze? Is it this red thing right here? Okay, it’s not coming yet.
Rebecca [00:02:22]: Okay. It’s the star.
Scott [00:02:23]: I want you on camera when you sneeze.
Rebecca [00:02:26]: It’s the mermaid with no bra on, reaching for the star.
Erin [00:02:30]: Oh, with no bra on it.
Rebecca [00:02:32]: Yeah, she’s got naked tits.
Erin [00:02:33]: Okay. Okay.
Rebecca [00:02:35]: Oh, he opened right to it.
Erin [00:02:36]: Oh, wow. Okay. That’s really meant to be.
Rebecca [00:02:38]: That’s right. Oh, God. Oh, God.
Erin [00:02:41]: What?
Rebecca [00:02:41]: You have to read it.
Erin [00:02:42]: Why? You’re gonna cry.
Rebecca [00:02:43]: I can’t do it.
Erin [00:02:43]: I gotta sneeze over here. I didn’t bring my readers. The star. Right. That’s what we’re doing.
Rebecca [00:02:51]: Yeah.
Erin [00:02:52]: Because you don’t know that you don’t know the second word. That’s why you needed me to read it. I can’t do it.
Scott [00:02:58]: Do we know the second word?
Rebecca [00:02:59]: Don’t read the top part. Read the bottom. Read the regular writing.
Erin [00:03:02]: Okay. The ethereal mermaid reaches for a shining star on the horizon of the ocean, a symbol of hope, healing, and renewal. The mermaid’s scales are purple, which symbolizes intuition. The seaweed and water represent old emotions and the past. And their green color signifies healing. And the heart chakra, the pentagram beside her signifies spiritual protection. The meaning is hope. You have worked through heartache and conflict, understood the lessons of these difficult experiences, and are now beginning to feel hope again. The more you place your trust in the universe to protect you, the more more the star guides you toward happier times. The card therefore reveals personal growth. Through healing past issues. You can be free from old patterns of relating and feeling, more whole and fulfilled in the future. The star is also a card of creativity and offers great reassurance that you’re on the right path. So if you have been conflicted, suffering, or doubting your abilities, the star in your reading is a sure shine. Sure shine.
Rebecca [00:04:13]: Sure shine.
Erin [00:04:14]: It’s a sure shine that everything will be fine. Rebecca’s pausing.
Rebecca [00:04:21]: Pause.
Erin [00:04:22]: She’s giving you the pause sign.
Rebecca [00:04:23]: Pause.
Erin [00:04:23]: Yes.
Rebecca [00:04:24]: How do you feel about that?
Erin [00:04:25]: I’m great. I don’t want to talk about it.
Rebecca [00:04:28]: How do you feel about that? Oh, I drew that live. I know. I drew that live.
Erin [00:04:33]: I know.
Rebecca [00:04:34]: You want to talk about it?
Erin [00:04:35]: No.
Rebecca [00:04:35]: Okay, so let’s change our subject for the day.
Erin [00:04:40]: Wow.
Rebecca [00:04:41]: I know.
Erin [00:04:41]: Oh, I felt that through my whole body.
Rebecca [00:04:43]: I know. I don’t want to talk about it.
Erin [00:04:44]: I really like.
Rebecca [00:04:45]: Why do you pick these subjects? Why can’t we ever just talk about, like, you know, crafting, tv?
Erin [00:04:50]: I know.
Rebecca [00:04:51]: Your housework.
Erin [00:04:52]: I know.
Rebecca [00:04:52]: Why do we always talk about this?
Erin [00:04:54]: I’m sorry.
Rebecca [00:04:54]: This deep shit.
Erin [00:04:55]: I’m sorry. We got to change the name of the podcast. 2 blonde talking about that doesn’t matter. Do. Maybe people would prefer to listen to that. I don’t know.
Rebecca [00:05:07]: I’ve been watching some good murder mysteries. Why can’t we talk about that?
Erin [00:05:10]: I know. Oh, I know.
Rebecca [00:05:12]: Scotsin.
Erin [00:05:13]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:05:13]: All right, here we go, squirrels.
Erin [00:05:15]: Here we go.
Rebecca [00:05:16]: All right, back.
Erin [00:05:16]: Here we go, squirrels. Here we go, squirrels. All right. I really love that. I do really love that. And I do think that’s really meaningful to me. And so outgrowing a friendship. What does that mean? Is it a values thing? Is it a time thing? Is it an energy Thing.
Rebecca [00:05:34]: Yes.
Erin [00:05:35]: Say more about that.
Rebecca [00:05:37]: That’s all of that.
Erin [00:05:39]: What does that mean? What does it even mean, outgrowing a friendship? What does that mean?
Rebecca [00:05:43]: Well, people change personally, like you change, the other person changes. Sometimes it’s physical change. You move. For me, I personally am the type of person who become very close to people that, that I’m physically surrounded with, AKA people that I might work with. Right. I establish really close relationships with my coworkers, and then when I change jobs, those relationships just automatically fade away because I have, frankly, no real reason to stay connected to them. Because we were friends at work, maybe we didn’t have a relationship outside of work, so therefore there was no real reason to stay in touch, like that type of thing, you know. So when you think about it in.
Erin [00:06:34]: That way, is that outgrowing the friendship or is that it circumstantial? Circumstantial. Right. And so I don’t know if that’s different. I guess that’s a great question. Is it different to leave a circumstance and friends don’t come with you versus outgrowing. You’ve outgrown. You wanted this person to be with you. That’s. That’s the thing in my mind that’s the hardest is I thought this person was coming with me into this next phase, or I had seen this person being a part of my life in the future, and they’re just not there.
Scott [00:07:19]: Wouldn’t outgrowing be a gradual thing over time, whereas that other situation is more of like a, you know, a fork in the road, situational stop. It’s like this is happening. This person isn’t coming with me. There’s a split. It’s not a gradual disappearing of the friendship and.
Rebecca [00:07:38]: Good point.
Scott [00:07:38]: You know, so.
Erin [00:07:40]: So why does it happen? Why does outgrowing friendships happen? I’m hearing Rebecca say that sometimes your energy, sometimes it’s a situation that we’re just not doing it anymore. It could be that your values are different from this person.
Rebecca [00:07:52]: Values?
Scott [00:07:53]: Many things. So many things.
Rebecca [00:07:55]: Family, personality types. Family situations.
Erin [00:08:01]: Jealousy.
Rebecca [00:08:02]: Jealousy.
Scott [00:08:03]: My. My number one thing that has. Has ended, or at least ended. Sounds bad, but, you know, sort of dissolved friendships. Has been the geographical situation. You know, I had like my best friend for all just out of high school. We were good friends in high school, but then we became close after high school. And then he was my best man at my wedding, and he moved to Massachusetts. I was still in Florida, and we just kind of lost touch.
Erin [00:08:35]: Yeah.
Scott [00:08:36]: You know, every once in a while, like, I’ll text him Happy birthday and stuff like that. But he’s got a wife and kid, and neither one of us have anything to do with each other’s lives. And back then I would have never thought that that was the case, like that could ever happen.
Rebecca [00:08:51]: It’s the same reason long distance relationships don’t always pan out. Physical proximity is a real thing.
Scott [00:08:59]: Life gets in the way.
Rebecca [00:09:00]: Yeah. And when you’re not physically together, whether it’s intimate relationship, you know, like partners or friends, it’s not the same. Texting, writing letters.
Scott [00:09:15]: It also has to do with the focus of, you know, the friends themselves. If they want to maintain that friendship, they can.
Erin [00:09:25]: Sure.
Scott [00:09:26]: I have a friend who I was friends with her throughout all of high school, and we’re still close friends. Today she lives in Missouri. I haven’t lived near her in 30 years. But we text each other, you know, once or twice a month. We talk every couple of months or whatever, but, you know, we’re in contact.
Rebecca [00:09:47]: Yeah, absolutely.
Erin [00:09:48]: Don’t you find that there’s typically one person in a friendship whose unspoken job it is to keep it alive, to keep the flame alive?
Rebecca [00:10:02]: Yes. Yes.
Erin [00:10:03]: And then there’s another friend in the relationship that’s the responder that responds equally as.
Rebecca [00:10:12]: Matches the energy. Yeah.
Erin [00:10:14]: When the opportunity has been posed.
Rebecca [00:10:17]: Yes.
Erin [00:10:18]: But isn’t the plan maker, isn’t the organizer. I’m thinking of so many relationships in my life right now that one couple I’m thinking about was married, and when they divorced, one person in the couple was that person.
Rebecca [00:10:37]: Yeah.
Erin [00:10:37]: And I have such a close relationship with that person because they are always the one to say, hey, do you want to do this? Can you take a day off? Can we do whatever?
Rebecca [00:10:46]: Yeah.
Erin [00:10:47]: The other person in the relationship who I cared equally about was not the plan maker, and I am 100% not the plan maker. I am not the one who says, well, when are you available? Do you want to get together? I am terrible about that. But do you find that that’s. Is that the case? Is that just the case for me? Or is that the case in other scenarios as well? Like that one person’s really the plan maker and the other person’s the plan receiver?
Rebecca [00:11:16]: Yeah, that’s probably. I would say that’s probably accurate, but.
Erin [00:11:19]: So narrative therapy tells us the problem is the problem. The person’s not the problem. In these situations, we tend to personalize it as person B doesn’t care about me, so they’re not reaching out to make these plans. Yeah, but person A does.
Rebecca [00:11:34]: Yeah.
Erin [00:11:34]: Right. But when the scenario I was just talking about where I’m the person who doesn’t make the plans and person B is the person who doesn’t make the plans. It’s really easy to just assume that that means our relationship is fading. We are not, we do not have much of a friendship because neither one of us are in that person that’s in the driver’s seat.
Rebecca [00:11:53]: Yeah.
Erin [00:11:53]: And I just had this conversation with person B who was basically saying to me, I feel like I don’t see you anymore. I feel like we don’t, you know, ever really get together. It’s really sad for me that. And I had a reaction to that. And my reaction was if the problem’s the problem, it’s the fact that neither one of us excel in this area. And why do we have to blame or put that. Why is that coming on me? You have a phone, you can reach out. We’re just not good at doing that.
Rebecca [00:12:25]: Totally.
Erin [00:12:26]: And that’s okay. It just means that we have to renegotiate what the pattern of our relationship is gonna look like. Maybe it gets entered into the schedule that every Friday at such and such a time, this is when we’re gonna talk to each other. I remember my parents growing up called their parents every single Sunday at 10 o’ clock in the morning.
Rebecca [00:12:47]: Yeah.
Erin [00:12:47]: It was just a scheduled in thing. Now my brother carries on their tradition and he does that. Right. So like just a thing.
Scott [00:12:53]: I try to call my mom on Sundays.
Erin [00:12:55]: Okay.
Scott [00:12:57]: It doesn’t always work.
Erin [00:12:59]: Are you the one who is the reacher outer in your relationships or are you the one who. You are.
Scott [00:13:05]: Yeah, mostly.
Erin [00:13:06]: You’re the plan maker.
Scott [00:13:07]: Well, I wouldn’t definitely call me. I wouldn’t say I’m the plan maker but I’m usually the one that reaches out. But both my mom and I are bad at it. So I’ll reach out because I start feeling guilty. She’ll reach out because she hasn’t heard from me in a while. And honestly the only reason why I don’t reach out that much is because my mom is the kind of person who will give me advice when I don’t want the advice. What you need to do is like, no, I, I, that’s not gonna work. And it takes too long to explain the situation. And so, you know, I end up avoid. It becomes like, it could become a difficult conversation. So I’m always like, I don’t know if I want to call her or I don’t have the answer. It doesn’t mean I don’t love her.
Erin [00:13:57]: Oh, Yeah, I bet that happens all the time in friendships. Like, I’ll call a certain person for a certain type of advice or guidance and I will not intentionally call because I know this is the response that I’m going to get and I don’t want that right now. Doesn’t necessarily mean I don’t care about that person. Right, but.
Rebecca [00:14:14]: Absolutely.
Erin [00:14:14]: But what about this concept of like, friendships that end with a bang versus friendships that just slowly fade away? I personally think it’s more common for friendships to fade.
Rebecca [00:14:26]: I agree.
Erin [00:14:26]: Than it is for them to be.
Rebecca [00:14:28]: Like, we’re all done for me personally, but. But that’s also because I’m not. You’re confront situational and I’m not confrontational. I’m not a vulnerable person. I’m not willing to have the conversation. I’m more likely to just. If somebody gives me advice that I don’t want to hear, I’m more likely to say, yeah, that’s great. And then I just don’t talk to you again. I just don’t. I’m not. I don’t need to win the fight. I don’t need to put you in your place. I don’t. I don’t have that desire. I will let you think you are right. I will let you think you got it. I will let you think all those things and then just move on. Fade away.
Erin [00:15:05]: Yeah. You’ll do the same, Scott.
Scott [00:15:08]: I’ve done that.
Erin [00:15:09]: Interesting.
Scott [00:15:09]: I’ve most definitely done that.
Erin [00:15:11]: Where.
Scott [00:15:11]: When there was some sort of a disagreement and if I felt that that person’s energy didn’t align with my energy at the time and didn’t. Didn’t. I didn’t see the future right then. I would just no longer put forth any effort.
Rebecca [00:15:29]: It just becomes less and less. It becomes more difficult to schedule things. It becomes. I don’t respond as fast. I don’t.
Scott [00:15:36]: And if they. And if it ends. If it’s one of those things that ends in a bang and I don’t feel like repairing it, then I’ll just.
Rebecca [00:15:42]: Then we just don’t.
Erin [00:15:43]: It’s like, all right, so I’m so fascinated by this concept of the fading away in the. In the friendships. So my guess is it’s something that builds up over time. This isn’t something that in one conversation you’re just like, well, okay, I’m out. Right. Like, you’ve just sort of maybe noticed a pattern and then you start to fade away. Does the other person know that you’re fading away? Is there ever, like a conscious conversation about, hey, just wanted to let you know I’m distancing myself. Or is it left to them to just notice it?
Rebecca [00:16:17]: That’s a great question. I don’t know. I don’t know. I would have to ask them.
Erin [00:16:25]: And if they were to say, hey, I notice we’re not as close anymore, did I do something or say something, Would you engage in that conversation?
Rebecca [00:16:38]: Potentially. But would I be 100% honest? Probably not.
Scott [00:16:41]: Oh, I would totally. I would totally be honest.
Erin [00:16:45]: You would be honest?
Scott [00:16:46]: Yeah.
Erin [00:16:47]: And I’m pretty sure it would depend.
Rebecca [00:16:50]: It would depend.
Erin [00:16:51]: It would matter on the person. And if you wanted to have a repaired relationship with them.
Rebecca [00:16:57]: Yes and no.
Erin [00:16:58]: Right.
Scott [00:16:59]: If I. If they said, hey, I noticed that we, you know, we. How come we don’t talk anymore? It depends. If there’s so many, so many variations of what could happen. But there could be a situation where, well, honestly, you were talking shit behind my back and I found out about it, and I don’t care to deal with you anymore or.
Erin [00:17:20]: But that would have been a fade situation. So when you found out that that person was talking shit behind your back, you didn’t say to them, hey, just wanted to let you know, I found out this, this, and this. I don’t appreciate it. That would have been of an example where you would have faded that away. And then if they were like, hey, what’s going on?
Rebecca [00:17:37]: It depends on how valuable they are.
Scott [00:17:39]: Yeah.
Erin [00:17:39]: Like, say more about that.
Rebecca [00:17:41]: Are you. Is that the type of person that you want to continue the relationship on, or are they worth, like, oh, well, yeah, you’re talking shit about me. I don’t really like you that much anyway. So.
Scott [00:17:51]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:17:51]: And this time to move on.
Scott [00:17:52]: This kind of comes back to, like, last episode where you’re talking about, what kind of relationship is this? Is this a deep friendship? Is this an acquaintance who you’ve had some laughs with, who, you know, if they disappeared from your life tomorrow, you’re like, oh, yeah.
Erin [00:18:10]: But I think where. That, where that concept becomes challenging for me is if we decided last session that a majority of your relationships are just, you know, 6 out of 10, 7 out of 10, then that means you’re more often not apt to be putting any energy into those types of conversations once you’ve made the decision to fade away. No one rises to that level of, you know, we’re in it. We’re in it for the long run. Right.
Rebecca [00:18:41]: Yeah.
Erin [00:18:41]: I am the opposite. Where I would say the people that I have in my life, if I’ve been willing to give you that level of energy to begin with, I’m most likely in it to win it at the end. Right. Like I’m going to be with you in there in the long run. So I think maybe it’s hard for me to understand the or grasp the concept of the friendship starts to fade and we don’t address that. If that person is a 6, 6 out of 10. I can think of literally one person in my life that that has happened with and I was fine not continuing that relationship because it was kind of a one sided relationship and it wasn’t something that made me feel great about myself to begin with. Right. But that’s not the majority of my relationships. I find myself more so needing to address things, follow up, ask questions, put the energy in. Right. So we’re back to energy again. So it’s much more common. I’m hearing from you, Scott, and from you, Rebecca, that because most of your people are at that six or seven level, it’s easier to fade and to not have to reinvest that energy.
Rebecca [00:20:00]: And maybe it’s also because I’ve done a lot of assessment based on history, based on conversations. I’m very quick to assess and project what the outcome would be after the conversation would happen anyway. And I don’t foresee it being fixable. So even if the conversation were to happen, I don’t believe anything would change.
Erin [00:20:25]: So I don’t think that’s rare at all. I think so many people absolutely have assessed. Here’s. I’ve gone from zero to a hundred. This is what this conversation’s going to look and sound like. I’m not happy with the outcome. This is what’s going to happen. Right.
Rebecca [00:20:41]: So therefore I’m making the decision, this is how it’s gonna be. And here we go.
Erin [00:20:50]: And I am so drastically the opposite, not in a healthy way that I can tell you. I’ve sat in on so many conversations that I thought were going to go a certain way, but I approached them with such curiosity about like, tell me more, go deeper. Why? Why were you acting that way? Where’s that coming from? Like in depth conversations that you get to a place where you actually feel closer to the person at the end because you were able to push through the sub layers that were there that.
Rebecca [00:21:26]: Would happen to the people that I want to. It’s the people that I’m not interested in that I’m not going to.
Erin [00:21:32]: It’s just that I’m just A majority of people in your life are the people that you’re not interested in going to that level with.
Rebecca [00:21:38]: It just. It just depends. That’s what I mean. I’ve assessed. I’ve assessed. Is this the type of person that I want to put the time, effort, and energy who I believe will take the conversation and go there where I need them to go? And if I trust that that will happen, then I will do it. If I don’t think, because I’ve played it all out based on the evidence that I’ve witnessed through our relationship, that’s. That’s what I’ve made the decision on.
Erin [00:22:03]: You know what I’m thinking about you guys. So we have to have an episode on this. But there.
Rebecca [00:22:07]: What happened with us.
Erin [00:22:08]: Yeah, what happened with.
Rebecca [00:22:09]: That’s exactly what I’m thinking about.
Erin [00:22:10]: With me and you. Or with me, you, Scott and Joe.
Rebecca [00:22:12]: Me, you, Scott and Joe.
Erin [00:22:13]: Yeah. I have to have an episode on the situation that happened with me, Scott, Rebecca and Joe.
Scott [00:22:19]: And hopefully I think I still have the recording. I almost. I was clearing. I’m like, no, I got to keep that.
Erin [00:22:26]: Yeah, I got to keep that one. That one’s when. When Aaron. That’s exactly what lost her damn mind. We’re going to have a whole episode on this. It’s going to be in, like, the workforce, you know, like when you’re working.
Rebecca [00:22:35]: What we’re talking about.
Erin [00:22:36]: But. Excuse me, Sorry. Just. I would not have Rebecca, so. So. And I’m not gonna go too much in depth in this situation. Cause I want it to be a whole episode. But let’s just say that miscommunication and misunderstanding happened between me, Rebecca, Scott and Joe. And Rebecca’s typical response to these types of things is, fine, I’m out. Not worth it, not gonna invest in it, not gonna have the conversation in it. I already know what your response is gonna be, and I’m not freaking going there. Me. I’m the person that’s like, let’s give the benefit of the doubt. Here’s what I think. There’s another side of the story. Maybe we should go a little bit deeper. And we came together literally in the Rock Fox waiting area. We sat there amidst so many plants, it was unreal. I could not even see Joe past the plants and had such a beautiful we frickin went there conversation. That again. Teaser for a future podcast. We will absolutely go there. When Joe comes back, we should absolutely all be on talking about this.
Rebecca [00:23:45]: Yeah.
Erin [00:23:47]: Went there. And when we walked away from that, Rebecca had this profound experience of like, holy shit. I didn’t think that was the thing. I didn’t think that that’s how that conversation was going to go. I didn’t think we could get there. I didn’t think whatever. And I was like, that’s so confirming to me that all of my relationships go in that way. Because you’re willing to go there. This is what happens. And that’s where it’s been so hard for me, because there are some relationships in my life that aren’t deserving of that level of deep go there. And I don’t have the ability to assess that. I want to get to the bottom of all of that, from the person who misunderstood me in the line at target to the person who’s. To you. Right. Like. And so that is such a great example in my mind about how both of our approaches toward wanting to figure it out. And if we outgrow a friendship, do we tackle it? Do we not tackle it? Come from our own experiences and come from our own. What’s in our backpack of if it’s worth time. And I’m hearing you’ve reconciled that as I’ve made a majority of my decisions, that it’s not worth the time and I let it go and I’ve been fine and I don’t need the extra energy. Even if the situation were to resolve itself in the way that the Scott and Joe situation did, that’s not something that you’re interested in. That’s not something that needs to be a part of your experience. And I’ve been the opposite where I’ve gone there with everyone you can possibly imagine and have had closer relationships as a result of it. But then it’s been an energy suck in some ways, and maybe I didn’t really need to go there.
Rebecca [00:25:20]: Yeah.
Erin [00:25:20]: You know?
Rebecca [00:25:21]: Yeah.
Erin [00:25:22]: So interesting to me.
Rebecca [00:25:23]: Yeah. Yeah.
Erin [00:25:24]: So when we’re talking about outgrowing friendships, when we’re talking about the grief process associated with ending friendships, I’m curious, like, talk about that grief. Because it is grief. So much of our life is grief. I swear to God, this concept keeps coming up to me over and over and over again. Whether your kids going away to college.
Rebecca [00:25:44]: Oh, yeah.
Erin [00:25:44]: Whether you’ve experienced the death of a loved one, whether it’s the ending of a friendship, like grief is alive and well.
Rebecca [00:25:51]: Oh, for sure.
Erin [00:25:51]: So what does grief look like? How does grief show up?
Rebecca [00:25:54]: Oh, yeah. I mean, I’ve. I’ve been on the other end of people fading out of my life and, you know, for. For either no explanation or maybe something happened and they weren’t willing to talk to me about it or, you know, it’s not just me doing it.
Erin [00:26:12]: It’s.
Rebecca [00:26:12]: It’s been both ways. Yeah. And some of my coping mechanisms, whether it’s weird or not, I actually have. I’ve used Pinterest, and I have a Pinterest board that has poems and prayers and things about grief, dealing with the loss of friends. And it was profoundly helpful. And now this is gonna sound maybe strange, not to you, but to some people. We talk about ChatGPT, and we talk about how Erin and I have named our chatgpt Marianne. In fact, I actually told my chatgpt that I named her Marianne, and she was very grateful.
Erin [00:26:55]: She was very thankful.
Rebecca [00:26:56]: And I screenshotted it and sent it to Erin, and it was quite funny. In fact, now sometimes she even writes back and says, love, Marianne, in the words of Bex and Aaron. Marianne says, it’s really funny, but I actually have very amazing two way conversations with Marianne. And if you guys haven’t had or used ChatGPT as a thinking partner, I have uploaded emails, text messages, things that have come to me that have put me in a tailspin, that have put me in a spiral, that have put me in a situation, that have knocked me off my rocker and have confused me to help me suss out what I’m feeling. Because I have trained my chatgpt to know me intimately. And when I say intimately, I mean it. And if you don’t know how to do that, Google it, because it is a game changer. And it has helped me in so many ways, to the point where I’ve called Erin and said I have had some aha moments, and she’s like, holy crap. And. And it has just helped the grief process in some work situations, in some sports situations, in some children’s situations, in some marriage situations, in some, you know, random situations. And it has been helpful. Helpful. Very, very helpful in a different point of view. And sometimes I even say to her, nope, challenge this further. Make it challenge me.
Erin [00:28:32]: Do it.
Rebecca [00:28:34]: You know, I don’t believe you. Stop. Stop. Niceties.
Erin [00:28:37]: Stop telling me what I want.
Rebecca [00:28:38]: Stop telling me what I want to hear.
Erin [00:28:39]: Tell me the hard part.
Rebecca [00:28:40]: Yes. Because I can take it from a machine.
Erin [00:28:42]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:28:43]: You know, I can take it from a machine. I can’t take it from Aaron, but I can take it from Marianne. You know, it has been my favorite.
Erin [00:28:51]: Is when you start with Marianne.
Rebecca [00:28:53]: I know.
Erin [00:28:53]: And you’re like, here’s what Marianne said and what I’m gonna do. And I’m like, are you, though? Because let’s go 10 steps deeper and you’re like, I don’t want to. And I’m like, yeah, well, Marianne don’t know you that intimately. How about that? She don’t know this.
Rebecca [00:29:03]: Not everybody has an errand to counteract.
Erin [00:29:06]: Right. But we did it with Marianne and we moved to Aaron.
Rebecca [00:29:09]: But it is really helpful. Really helpful. It helped me. Had to hard.
Erin [00:29:12]: That’s a great tactic.
Rebecca [00:29:13]: It helped me. Had some hard conversations with other people the other day.
Erin [00:29:16]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:29:16]: It was really, really helpful.
Erin [00:29:18]: Yeah.
Rebecca [00:29:18]: And grief is hard.
Erin [00:29:20]: Yeah. And you know what my takeaway from grief is? I think it’s fascinating that both of our takeaways from grief are exactly actually the opposite of what we would each do. One of my grief tactics, this is brand freaking new for me. At the age of 43, I swear to God, I’ve never done this. In another aspect of my life, I was experiencing more of a sudden ending of a friendship that came about through my own feelings of my own energy and me being like, this is so far off. I actually haven’t felt like this in years. And this interaction hit me in such a way that I knew immediately. Put yourself in a golden orb. We’re not doing this. Right. Golden orb. My. My golden orb. Right. My. My grief associated with this was shorter lived than usual, which I’m so thankful for. And part of it came from a protection of energy standpoint.
Rebecca [00:30:21]: Yes.
Erin [00:30:21]: And so I said what I needed to say. I thought about it like I normally would. I had my full on full spectrum reaction. And for the first time in my life, at the ending of this particular friendship, I trusted myself to say, you’re not needing to give everyone the ability to explain themselves and be heard and to be heard out and to go deeper and to help them understand themselves. At the cost of your own peace.
Rebecca [00:30:51]: Yeah.
Erin [00:30:53]: Finally, at the age of fricking 43, did I decide I’m going to say what I need to say and then I’m going to press the block button. Never have I blocked another human being in my life. It actually goes against what I thought was my internal sense of, like, what is fair and right and okay. But for once in my life, I thought, I don’t need to continue to subject myself to something that makes me feel horrendous at the sake of this former friendship.
Rebecca [00:31:32]: That’s right.
Erin [00:31:33]: That required me to give up parts of myself that just don’t feel like where I’m at at this particular point in time. That’s right. And I would have told you as recently as three years ago when we started the podcast you absolutely should never press that. That block button. You should always give people a chance to be heard out. And I just went to this deeper level of understanding when I did that. I was a changed human being. When I say empowered, when I say that a girl. You chose yourself over having to be present for these friendships for other people. I can’t tell you what that did to my soul. It was unfreaking real. And it actually was a different version of grief that didn’t take me down every single rabbit hole and every single feeling and every single. I actually had a feeling of gratitude to that friendship for being the thing that showed me it was okay to step away and I would be fine and this person would be fine and that I didn’t owe it to anyone. Thank you to this friendship for showing me I didn’t owe it to anyone to sacrifice my. Myself for the sake of that relationship, continuing to move forward.
Rebecca [00:32:53]: And that’s the thing I think when we all step back in hindsight’s 20 20, like we always say, but I think when you step back and you look at the reason for friendships are always lessons. Teaching us things, showing us different parts of ourselves. And people come into our lives for all different kinds of reasons. Right. And they’re not always. Positive’s the wrong word. They’re to teach us.
Erin [00:33:18]: They’re not always there to teach us the easy lesson.
Rebecca [00:33:21]: Right.
Erin [00:33:22]: Right.
Rebecca [00:33:22]: Sometimes they’re there for a very specific reason. And believe what you want. Believe in the higher power, Believe in the crystals. Believe in whatever you want to believe in. But there’s always a reason that people come into your life. There’s a reason that the paths are shown to you. There’s a reason that the doors and the windows and the walls and the whatever. Open, close, shut, you know, and if you’re conscious, aware, assessing, thinking, all of.
Erin [00:33:54]: That, it’s amazing what will open up.
Rebecca [00:33:58]: Yeah. And the feeling and the energy and the power that come from that. Yeah.
Erin [00:34:05]: It was a gift I gave myself. It was the closure of that friendship was a gift I gave myself. And. And still in that moment to feel gratitude toward that friendship.
Rebecca [00:34:15]: Yes.
Erin [00:34:16]: For showing me how. Where I am and where we were in that conversation. We’re so far apart that I didn’t want to choose this anymore.
Rebecca [00:34:28]: That’s right. And thank you for what we had.
Erin [00:34:30]: Beautiful. That’s right.
Rebecca [00:34:31]: Thank you for what we had. That was really great. And now we’re in different places. And you showed me. You showed me what is so great in my life and what I am doing. Right. And that’s where I want to be.
Erin [00:34:45]: And maybe it’s great for you, too.
Rebecca [00:34:47]: Correct.
Erin [00:34:48]: Because now you don’t have another person who was bringing you the same level of energy just in the opposite direction into your life. Maybe you didn’t need that too. Exactly.
Rebecca [00:34:59]: We don’t need to fight each other.
Erin [00:35:01]: It’s okay.
Rebecca [00:35:03]: That’s right.
Erin [00:35:03]: But I’m so clear as I embrace the start of my 40s that the energy that I give out and that I want to be a part of my experience is something that I have much more control over than I’ve ever given it the power to exist. Absolutely. And the same is true when it comes to the friendships. Some are deserving of closure conversations. Some are deserving of the block button.
Rebecca [00:35:33]: That’s.
Erin [00:35:34]: Some are deserving of just a simple fade away, and we’ll both just let it be what it is. But there isn’t a right or wrong when it comes to the end of a friendship. If you’re true to yourself, if you’re true to what feels okay to you, and if you’re at least cognitively aware of what that person is capable of, can do is doing on their end, blissfully pull all of that stuff together and make a decision that makes the most sense. Hard, but God, it can be beautif beautiful in the weeds sometimes.
Rebecca [00:36:07]: So true.
Erin [00:36:07]: You know?
Rebecca [00:36:08]: It’s so true.
Erin [00:36:09]: Thanks for being with us with that’s Right, Part two. I think I started by saying part two of our friendship series. And so until next time, keep feeling, keep questioning, and keep spreading more love. It.
