Episode 112 – Empathy Real and Raw with Erin and Scott

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Despite Erin’s urging, Rebecca still remains unprepared to talk about empathy boundaries and convinces her that it’s just a successful defense tactic. They dive deep into the story behind Erin’s “Ws”, Rebecca’s hatred of eyes, and even Scott joins in on the neuroses! Part II of Empathy Boundaries focuses on places where they both struggle to put empathy boundaries in place. Surprise, surprise, Erin’s list is much longer. Fill us in on where you struggle with setting boundaries around empathy.  

0:00:09 – Speaker 2
Hey, it’s me, Erin. Thanks for joining us on the More Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside, but the truth is she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Here she comes.
0:00:28 – Speaker 3
Hey, Bestie, Hi love.
0:00:30 – Speaker 2
What are you doing? Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast About what Life? Our life as best friends who are more like sisters. Yay, I love us and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world, Especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right To be our most authentic selves.
0:00:50 – Speaker 3
Oh man Okay.
0:00:57 – Speaker 2
You know how we’re starting today’s show. I don’t how we’re with an apology to lesbians. Yeah, and why are we apologizing to?
0:01:07 – Speaker 3
the lesbians, because we went on a weekend getaway with a bunch of gay people, yeah, and you specifically asked the lesbians if they would wear the shoes that I wear, that you call lesbian shoes, and they said no way in hell, no way in hell?
0:01:23 – Speaker 2
Absolutely not. And my next question was because they’re so bad and every one of them just turned and walked away and laughed because they didn’t want to offend you, I mean. So what really just happened there was I called your shoes lesbian shoes, and even the lesbians don’t want to wear those.
0:01:45 – Speaker 3
Okay, they’re like, don’t be putting those on us. Okay, we will not accept them into our community.
0:01:55 – Speaker 2
So the shoes? Right, we accept all the lesbians. We don’t accept those. Yeah, I’m like guys, so would you wear these shoes and they’re like? No, I’m like, because they’re so bad, and then literally just turned and walked away. I mean, that’s how bad. Those shoes are All right, well, okay, so that’s how we’re starting. Apologies to the lesbians, we sure did. We went to Darnell’s 40th birthday party this last weekend. I’m sorry, birthslay yeah.
0:02:29 – Speaker 3
Only two straight people there. Only two straight people which could be confused as lesbians.
0:02:34 – Speaker 2
Well, you kept telling people we’re basically lesbians without the sex. It’s true, because you just so badly wanted to fit in to that group.
0:02:41 – Speaker 3
We even slept in the same bed Right.
0:02:43 – Speaker 2
We tried to fit in bed.
0:02:44 – Speaker 3
It was teeny, not too big, it was teeny, yeah, yeah.
0:02:47 – Speaker 2
So we had a lot of fun this past weekend at the birthslay Birthslay Amazing people, awesome, just down to earth, genuine Great people, awesome, fun people.
0:03:01 – Speaker 3
And Darnell is a beautiful community of great friends.
0:03:04 – Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely, and we’re a part of it. We just don’t sleep together.
0:03:09 – Speaker 3
That’s true. That’s true, the fact that he can get 15 people to show up to a long weekend for his party, when I can’t even get one person to give me a phone call.
0:03:19 – Speaker 2
That’s right. We should have Darnell on the show asking what his tricks are. So the next thing is what I was going to point out was last show. You don’t even remember. You’re shaking your head, All right.
0:03:35 – Speaker 3
No, I know, there’s so many things.
0:03:36 – Speaker 2
No Last show. Yeah, you made it a point to call out the fact that I always come prepared for the podcast and you were insinulating that I never give you an opportunity to prepare for the podcast and that you’re always on the spot, and it’s just so unfair. Oh, did I say unfair? I’m pretty sure it was implied. Okay, okay. And so I said at the end of the last episode okay, well, we’re doing part two. This week.
0:04:11 – Speaker 3
That’s right, I did. Okay, now I remember Good.
0:04:14 – Speaker 2
That’s good. So why don’t you I said, why don’t you take some time this is last episode to go ahead and put your list together and we’ll see if you actually come prepared, now that you have an entire week to prepare for it.
0:04:26 – Speaker 3
Okay, yeah, I don’t even remember what we talked about, I know so what did you say when you came in here today? Did we?
0:04:31 – Speaker 2
have a plan? What? Are we talking about today. Hey, do we have any plans, or whatever? And I’m sitting over here, no joke.
0:04:38 – Speaker 3
I know I like to show everyone this you came remember when I bought a planner and all those things. Yeah Right, Where’s that? Yeah.
0:04:44 – Speaker 1
So you went that target time that you went and got all the stuff Still in notes and notes.
0:04:50 – Speaker 2
Nope, nope, and I’m over here. I have a bulleted list, I have it categorized. There is literally. So I have one, two, three, four, five in this one category. One, two, three, four, five, six in this other category. Okay, on the other side of it it says Beck, and there is literally one bullet, and then there’s a bullet that has nothing next to it.
0:05:13 – Speaker 3
Was I supposed to email you?
0:05:14 – Speaker 2
anything. No, no, you were just supposed to handle it yourself, because you wanted to put me on blast last time that I spend too much time preparing and not telling you about it, and then you would just be so much more on top of it.
0:05:26 – Speaker 3
You did tell the story about how your dad take so much time to pick emojis. Well, and now, every now, every time, I will say now, every time you send something, like this morning, when I sent to you and my husband a text about how he sucks at being a dad and you sent the perfect thank you very much. You noticed it, I did.
0:05:45 – Speaker 2
I did. I searched. I’m going to say it was a good 45 seconds there was. It was between two and I picked that one. Why don’t you tell everyone why your husband won father of?
0:05:54 – Speaker 3
the year. Oh, but here’s the best part. I texted both of you not just him. And I when we were away this weekend for oh, I don’t know if I should say this out loud oh yeah, all right. Well, if you want to know, go on the Facebook, because this I’ve known, that children listen to our podcast, so we’re not going to talk about that, but if you would like to know how that was really thoughtful of you.
0:06:17 – Speaker 2
I’d like to give you some points, Thank you. Thank you, Scott. Please push the the clap button. You got that one, Thank you.
0:06:27 – Speaker 3
Thank you, let’s just say this involves the tooth fairy, yeah, so you can all.
0:06:35 – Speaker 2
yes, we’ll do it. On the more love podcast Facebook group yeah, but let’s just say I can’t wait.
0:06:43 – Speaker 1
Yes, scott, I really want to know what that’s about.
0:06:46 – Speaker 2
Oh, good we call that a cliffhanger.
0:06:48 – Speaker 1
We did that on purpose.
0:06:50 – Speaker 2
We did that totally on purpose.
0:06:51 – Speaker 1
You guys are brilliant. Yeah, what can we do?
0:06:53 – Speaker 2
The thing I thought is off the chain, yeah.
0:06:57 – Speaker 3
Oh, the chain, so was our preparedness.
0:06:59 – Speaker 2
Oh, mine is, but yours is not, so wait.
0:07:04 – Speaker 3
Yes, darnell, back to Darnell’s party had an official psychic. Yes, tarot reader, Official tarot reader. And of course we go together. You want to talk about her hat? I don’t know she might be listening.
0:07:20 – Speaker 2
Listen, we’re not that popular. All right, you’re right.
0:07:24 – Speaker 3
You’re right, we are not that popular. You’re that terrible reader.
0:07:27 – Speaker 2
The birth slate party is tuning in.
0:07:31 – Speaker 3
Yeah, she was wearing a sun hat, but it was black. It was very funeral-esque, church Sunday type of hat. It was very interesting. You really loved her candles, though, yeah, I didn’t like those. They were glittered, glittered, fake black. No, they’re purple, purple, glittered, fake candles with lights with the flickering battery. Yeah, mm-hmm, the dollar store. And then she had a bunch of gold dragons, but we didn’t reference those. No, nor did we get to pick our card deck, right. She had four card ducks that I specifically asked. Oh, yeah, about right, and she goes. Well, if I’m feeling called, I’ll, I’ll go to these, come to find out.
0:08:12 – Speaker 2
Everybody else got multiple deck readings, right and you were feeling called one of the ducks. She didn’t care, she didn’t kid not care.
0:08:20 – Speaker 3
She’s like here’s your, your card duck, and then she goes, and then she says, well, I’d have to ask my agent.
0:08:28 – Speaker 2
No, because you asked, because we both went in and we both had individual readings with each other, right? And then you were like so, toward the end here, quick question, could you do a joint reading for both of us? And she’s like I’m really running out of time, I’m gonna have to ask, gonna have to ask, I’d have to ask my agent and I’m like. What is the thing? What who’s your agent? Is it Darnell?
0:08:54 – Speaker 3
Is it your gem, your?
0:08:55 – Speaker 2
crystal, like we had a lot of questions consulting right, right, but it was a pretty good reading.
0:08:59 – Speaker 3
It was a great reading, actually, it was. It was good. It confirmed all the things that we’re going on. My two biggest takeaways.
0:09:07 – Speaker 2
Mine was the hermit card. I one of my cards was the hermit, which means I need to take some time and solitude to figure out by life and Journal, mm-hmm.
0:09:19 – Speaker 3
And then she said to me but you real, but I’m the hermit because of the way my birthday numbers add up right. And she said so it doesn’t surprise me that you two have this in yin and yang energy, mm-hmm.
0:09:31 – Speaker 2
And then yours was like. It was like this tarot card with a party bus on it and it was like girl, you need a vacation. And they’re like a sure new mm-hmm sure.
0:09:41 – Speaker 3
And then your first card was you’re like. It said something about oh, there’s this partnership in your life that is nailing it nailing it and I, at the end, I go. I have a question Is that a romantic partnership? And she was like, absolutely, and they’re not. I looked at each other and I like it’s us.
0:09:58 – Speaker 2
It’s us Like this wow, this relationship is exactly what you need. It’s really beautiful. It is just really giving you this great energy. It is really Helping you through this period in life. It’s really, really beautiful. You did. You were like is that a romantic relationship? She said yes, and then you gave me the side To be like, just to work. Clear, it’s not right. Right, it’s me.
0:10:26 – Speaker 3
Speaking up. Should we do? Should we do?
0:10:28 – Speaker 2
yep, okay, one one thing real quick, one thing real quick before we do this. This is how my empathy plays out with you, okay. Okay, because the purpose of this podcast is empathy and vulnerability and it’s about talking about our stories and how empathy and vulnerability have played out.
0:10:45 – Speaker 1
Okay, I want to be really clear.
0:10:46 – Speaker 2
That that was you want to talk about an intention, the intention of the podcast, okay, okay, so incredibly empathic and I’m like I want her to feel like she has a place in this podcast. I want her to really feel like she’s owning her own thing. You know, we’re definitely ying and yang and over here, right? Yeah, slowly but surely, I allow you to bring in your own self To the podcast. Then last week I’m reviewing the podcast. No joke if that thing was 60 minutes long, 42 minutes was Was talking about your bedroom portal, you setting the intention. It was you processing your cards, it was doing the chakra oils, it was, and you had other stuff in your bag.
0:11:41 – Speaker 3
I know we just didn’t get to it. They’ve been in my bag the whole, the whole eight, ten weeks We’ve been here.
0:11:46 – Speaker 2
Yeah, I know, because we don’t have any time to actually talk about what we’re supposed to be talking about. And then, what did you say about the?
0:11:53 – Speaker 3
whale episode. You’re gonna make me say it on. Yeah, on what did you say? I was watching it and I called I, I called Aaron or you called me. You happened to call me when I was done and I said I Cannot, we, I, we crack me up. I said I cannot stop laughing at the things that we talked about and I said that episode was great until we got to the Reviewing of the whale and then I got bored and turned it off.
0:12:25 – Speaker 2
Classic. I said wait a minute again. The purpose of the podcast is empathy and vulnerability, and after we got through the whole stuff in the beginning, that you’re cracking up, you’re laughing. I think that was the one. I called you a trash can. What did you think, though, about the processing of the whale? Like we really went kind of deep there. You’re like I turn it off before that part, that parts boring. This is what happens. So, yes, can’t wait to set the intention, and then maybe we can go on for another 45 minutes of you know different spiritual stories and whatever. I know gems, you know whatever, but that’s what happens. You hijack my empathy.
0:13:16 – Speaker 3
Let her be all of herself. It’s my avoidance tactic. Yeah, oh good, I don’t want to talk about it.
0:13:21 – Speaker 2
All right, and and I’m just, I just want you to feel supported, right?
0:13:24 – Speaker 3
so I’m like, but then you say certain things that trigger me to go down the rabbit hole of different stories. There are different experiences we’ve had and then I can’t not say them All right well, and then we get to the end. I know I was like well, there’s no more time left, so why don’t I?
0:13:37 – Speaker 2
just do the empathy problem, okay, so anyway, yes, please set the intention. No, you have to you have to start.
0:13:45 – Speaker 3
Oh, I do. Yes, we always start with yours and then we do mine. Oh, no, we do the oils. I can’t. You picked the yellow today. I cannot Put it on your wrist. Oh my god. Put it on your. Put it on your. Why you can’t say the word.
0:14:04 – Speaker 2
Oh my god, look at it, look at it, look at it. It is sweet, you wore a long sleeve?
0:14:09 – Speaker 3
I didn’t put it on your neck.
0:14:10 – Speaker 1
Put it on your neck.
0:14:11 – Speaker 3
Put it on your neck. What the yeah, yeah. Scott, do you remember last week, when you told me how shitty that smell was?
0:14:21 – Speaker 1
She’s like all day long that smell was shitty, so when you say the word that describes this part of your Don’t touch it Scott, oh my god.
0:14:31 – Speaker 3
What the Don’t touch it Scott, oh my god, she can’t. I forget every time.
0:14:38 – Speaker 1
The W’s. This reminds me of my wife.
0:14:42 – Speaker 2
She’s got a W problem. She hates the W’s.
0:14:46 – Speaker 1
No, it’s not the W’s what. What is it? It’s metal. Oh, it goes back to when she had braces as a kid. So if she hears metal, or if there’s certain types of metal like she goes nuh-uh. Yes and like messes with her teeth. It’s a physical reaction, and so the kids they mess with her. They’ll take forks and run it on a knife or run it on the plate. She’s like nuh-uh. It’s so mean Stop it, it’s so mean, so I get it, but it’s still she doesn’t go all this, but-.
0:15:19 – Speaker 3
Oh, we should go T-Rex.
0:15:20 – Speaker 1
Yeah, she doesn’t go all T-Rex.
0:15:21 – Speaker 2
So my friend Stacy said to me a text message at the end of that last episode. She’s like. I’m going to be honest with you, the cliffhanger wasn’t about the whale, it was about the W’s, what the heck is going on there, right?
0:15:32 – Speaker 1
So I will tell people we’re going to have to delve into this some other time I’ll tell you about the W’s, I’ll tell you.
0:15:38 – Speaker 2
I do not know where it comes from. It has been a part of my experience since I was a little kid I don’t the memory I can associate it with and again, this was way before I was ever allowed to watch any type of murder, mysteries or anything right. So, like I was definitely too young was I would have these two incredibly prominent thoughts before I would go to bed at night. The first was because I had my-. I have so many things to say.
0:16:05 – Speaker 3
Go ahead. You just triggered me. I got to keep doing this. Go ahead, do it in the whole conversation.
0:16:10 – Speaker 1
Go ahead.
0:16:10 – Speaker 2
The first one has nothing to do with W’s, but it’s just a very prominent thought. It was this Fisher Price kitchen set that I had in my room, and this is when I think I should have anyone should have known that I struggled with anxiety because I would wake up in a dead sweat in the middle of the night and, you know, like the little turn things Like the the knobs, yeah, the little knobs, like one was blue and one was red. If it was not on blue, I was 100% convinced I was going to burn my house down.
0:16:40 – Speaker 1
With my family, with my brother in the next room, not okay.
0:16:43 – Speaker 2
I can relate, so I would have to check that a million times before I would go to bed. Are they on blue? Are they on blue? There’s two knobs Blue, blue, blue. Then I would make up with them in the middle of the night. They’d still be on blue, right, who was going to change them? But if they were not on blue, I was in a tizzy because I thought I was going to burn the house down, Okay. But the second thing where the W’s come in is I would go to bed at night and I would sleep. I can’t even do it. My, my, me, I can’t even I can’t even do it. Pretend this is the backside of my W’s. Scott, I need you in the bubble. I need to see you when I’m talking about this. I missed you. Okay, I would lie down and then if this part pretend this was the front part of my W’s was facing upwards, I would be 100% convinced that some horrendous it was a man with a gigantic knife was going to come in my room and slit my W’s Again.
0:17:40 – Speaker 3
I swear to God.
0:17:41 – Speaker 2
I’m like in fourth grade. I’m like Sawyer’s age right. Don’t know where that’s coming from. Since that time I continue to this day I am 41 years old to sleep like this in bed so that my my W’s are protected. I cannot look at W’s, you cannot talk about W’s, you can’t say the W word. I know my W’s cannot be exposed. If I wake up in the middle of the night and my W’s are exposed.
I am full on panic, I will lay on my stomach with my hands shoved down to my crotch just to make sure that they are as covered as they possibly can be. I don’t like to see your tattoos on your W’s. I cannot watch scary movies that have anything to do with W’s. One of my therapist friends told me at one point that it was probably associated with vulnerability, because it’s a very vulnerable part of your body. Right, I don’t know. We could look into that all day, but to this day it’s a trigger. I I just need some hypnotherapy or something about that.
0:18:49 – Speaker 3
But it is not okay, that is so funny you triggered me so badly because my two things when I was little, same same time frame, maybe a little bit younger I was convinced. So you lived in a raised ranch like I live in Now. I lived in just a regular ranch. I was convinced at night that ET was at my window looking in.
0:19:13 – Speaker 1
Did the flowers like get? Did they die and then come back or something? I don’t think I ever saw the movie.
0:19:19 – Speaker 3
I think I just saw a picture of that thing.
0:19:23 – Speaker 2
And it was there, oh, fingers.
0:19:24 – Speaker 3
Oh, oh 100% that was. That was every single night. I’m like I can’t go near that window because it was one specific window. That was number one. The second one is I’m pretty sure I saw, like Indiana Jones or something, where they shot an arrow into someone’s neck. Yeah, and so the neck is my trigger, like your W’s.
0:19:41 – Speaker 2
No, you know what else is for you? What your eyes? Oh, oh, oh, what happened there? Oh, what happened there? Oh, yeah, now I can’t look at you. What happened there? Oh, you forgot about that. You got all sorts of phone calls. Keep talking about my W’s. What, oh, what’s going on? Stop it. What’s wrong with your eyes over there? Ah, oh, so see, it’s not your neck, no, it is, but it’s really your eyes. Oh, how about the white part?
0:20:14 – Speaker 1
Oh, that was a Pandora’s box from hell that I just opened up, so thank you for the answer. The worst was I called.
0:20:21 – Speaker 3
Aaron crying, and it was during COVID. My cat had something wrong with his eye and my daughter came crying hysterically up to me out of nowhere. I’m like what’s the matter? She’s like there’s something wrong with Tice’s eye and eye. Yep, Full Bombed, Boom, Panic attack. I called my husband on FaceTime. I’m like you have to look at the cat’s eye. I can’t do it. I can’t do it.
0:20:43 – Speaker 1
And he’s like what do you mean? I go? Something’s wrong with it.
0:20:46 – Speaker 3
So we set up the computer, did the FaceTime. He’s at work paving or doing some shit, and I made him look at the cat’s eye. He’s like I don’t know, you’re going to have to call the hospital. So I took him to the hospital, still not looking at him. No, but who did you?
0:20:57 – Speaker 2
call on the way to the hospital. You crying. Something’s wrong with his eye. It’s not OK, yeah.
0:21:02 – Speaker 3
You’ve got to come look at it.
0:21:03 – Speaker 2
I’m like you’re going to the emergency vet, I’m pretty sure they can look at it. I’m like, well, what if they have to take it out and I have to have one cat, one eye? Oh, not one eye.
0:21:10 – Speaker 1
What was it?
0:21:11 – Speaker 3
One eye cat, somehow, that little fucker. My daughters must have been playing. I can’t.
0:21:21 – Speaker 2
Again, scott. Oh good, scott’s got it, you ready for this? I love when Scott’s got it. You’re going for this.
0:21:25 – Speaker 3
He just said you have the most screwed up stories. Yeah, so the guy comes out because I can’t go into the hospital because it’s COVID. So he brings the cat out and he brings out a plastic baggie, mm-mm, and he goes, he goes. There was a sequin on the cat’s eye like a contact. Yeah, blue.
0:21:48 – Speaker 2
Blue Sequin, and he has blue eyes. Yeah Well, one blue here, the other blue there.
0:21:53 – Speaker 1
Oh, he’s got a side. Oh, I remember that joke, a little costume.
0:21:58 – Speaker 2
Sequin we have from one of their dance costumes On his eye.
0:22:02 – Speaker 3
Yeah, the doctor was like I don’t know how this happened. I’m like what? Yeah, we go. Can?
0:22:09 – Speaker 2
you see, but this is what you’re saying to me on the way there what if he has to take his eye out?
0:22:13 – Speaker 1
What if he?
0:22:13 – Speaker 2
only has one eye? Is he going to close the eye hole? Are they going to use the correct number of stitches? Is he only going to what? If he only has one eye? He doesn’t see very well to begin with.
0:22:20 – Speaker 1
How much is that going to cost? What are they going to do with the eye? Is he going to put them down? Yeah, this is what happens to you.
0:22:26 – Speaker 2
What are they going to do with the eye?
0:22:28 – Speaker 1
Are they going to keep?
0:22:28 – Speaker 2
the eye. Are they going to have to dissect it? Maybe they’re going to learn about Siamese and Siamese eyes if they dissect his eye. I know All of these things happen for you, everything. And here I am. It’s fine, I know he’s going to be OK and he’s in the car, everything’s.
0:22:41 – Speaker 3
Oh yeah, he’s angry, he’s angry. So anyway, Scott, that’s the answer. This is the problem. That’s why we don’t talk about the. Ws.
0:22:49 – Speaker 2
This is why the podcast is full of this stuff. Now, between you and Scott, I really have my work cut out for me. All right, put it on your neck. I really like the cheer in that bubble.
0:22:58 – Speaker 3
Yeah, just stay there the whole time.
0:22:59 – Speaker 2
We kind of really like you there.
0:23:02 – Speaker 3
So you picked the yellow. Today You’re holding the yellow, the yellow tope what is yellow? It’s the solar plexus. What the hell is that? It’s based in purpose.
0:23:12 – Speaker 2
Is that like your gluteus meoxymus?
0:23:14 – Speaker 3
No, oh, it’s the third chakra and it’s located in the area of the navel. What so if you want to stick that thing in your belly button? This smells like lice off. Oh, ok, purity. Why does it need to go in my belly button? Because that’s the solar plexus it’s located in? No, you don’t really have to put it in there.
0:23:35 – Speaker 2
Put it on your neck Because I don’t want to. I’m not going to put it on my neck because I’m going to smell it all day.
0:23:40 – Speaker 3
It’s a prominent source of inner power. This chakra enhances our self-esteem and controls digestion. You need that. Oh, I do need that. You need that. You have anal leakage?
0:23:51 – Speaker 2
No, you have anal leakage.
0:23:54 – Speaker 3
Remember last week when you lifted your Look at Scott. Remember last week when you lifted and I’m like, did you just fart? That was your fart face. Yeah, I love it Because you said, apropos, oh, speaking of, at Darnell’s party, when we dressed up I wore these underwear with butt pads because I wanted my butt to be bigger. And then when I farted in it I’m like, oh no, are they going to get trapped? It wouldn’t.
0:24:18 – Speaker 2
Listen what you did to fart in it. It sounded like you had farted into a pillow.
0:24:24 – Speaker 3
It was like it was like boom it was like totally muffed, it was not OK. Why are you freaking out? Can you just smell my butt? Is it still in there?
0:24:33 – Speaker 2
I’m like I’m not smelling your butt. I’m not smelling your butt. Yeah, ok, here we go. Here’s your solar plexus.
0:24:41 – Speaker 3
So this is for this is deeply important for setting goals, desires and intentions, in gaining self-motivation and strength to achieve them.
0:24:51 – Speaker 2
What did we talk about the whole.
0:24:52 – Speaker 3
I know needing some motivation. It does not like lice all I know, it’s lemon lice, lemon pine salt, yeah, so on the way here, we were both talking about how we are big old plans, but we still have a lot of motivation to do it. I think you said what was the word you used? Yeah, apathetic.
0:25:08 – Speaker 2
And I go. What does?
0:25:09 – Speaker 1
that mean, I don’t even know what that means.
0:25:11 – Speaker 3
And so you explained it. I’m like oh, my god, that’s it. I have no motivation. I have to-do list upon to-do list, and then I have no motivation. Yeah, so anyway, this is what we need today.
0:25:20 – Speaker 2
And then what happens?
0:25:20 – Speaker 3
Don’t put it there.
0:25:22 – Speaker 2
Are you kidding me? How many times do we have to talk about it? You were right out front with that. I have ADHD. It’s just compulsive. Not it cannot. Do you have the top? Yeah?
0:25:34 – Speaker 3
My nails smells good.
0:25:36 – Speaker 2
OK, ok, do your intentions. Let me do my card here. I’m just feeling this top card here, ok. Ok, I am doing the work. I know that my future self will thank me for the hard work. Nailed it? Sure, am doing the work.
0:25:52 – Speaker 3
Look at this King of Cups. He’s doing a little high kick. That’s a high kick from the weekend. Oh yeah, it’s a Bobby high kick, bobby, high kick, boop boop Bobby from the block. Bobby from the block. Bobby from the block. Great people. Oh yeah, pardon me, it feels like we should just have the whole bar.
0:26:10 – Speaker 2
Oh, I could know that they would blow up this place, the whole group, is it?
0:26:15 – Speaker 3
not OK, all right, ready. No, that’s the wrong one.
0:26:19 – Speaker 2
What was that again, king?
0:26:20 – Speaker 3
of Cups. I almost said King of High Kicks. King of High Kicks. Yes oh, it’s the last one. It’s the last one in the dark, oh interesting.
0:26:28 – Speaker 2
I’m rubbing this rock because that’s what you’ve conditioned me to do. I see myself on the podcast rubbing the rock like an idiot the whole time. I don’t even believe in half of this stuff. I’m like, I’m just like I’m going to rub myself over. We’ve got to feel it everywhere.
0:26:47 – Speaker 3
The King of Cups sits on a cosmic cloud above the sea, beyond, but still a part of the vast ocean below. The cup before him floats in place, mirroring the energetic well-being of his kingdom. The king contemplates the state of his people, considering how to best care for happiness and peace of all. The king of cups invites you to still your mind and calm your emotions. Act from a place of emotional maturity and rational compassion. As you move forward, be sure to surrender. Be sure to consider not only how your actions affect the self, but also how they impact a greater web of people and events. Be considerate of others at this time and do your best to strive for collective harmony above individual gain. The king of cups may embody a part of you or another person in your life. It will depend on your reading. What makes sense to you it’s really interesting.
0:27:35 – Speaker 2
Tell you what makes sense to you. The emotional maturity part Well, I’m the rational whatever that I talked about, right?
0:27:44 – Speaker 1
Emotional maturity.
0:27:45 – Speaker 2
As it says, back to the party. We each got individual shirts the minute that we got there that represented who we are as people. Yeah, and yours said no. Mine said I bring the voice of reason and yours said I bring the wine.
0:28:03 – Speaker 3
And it could have been W-H-I-N-E.
0:28:06 – Speaker 2
Oh yeah, both would have been fine. Yeah, yeah, wow, good, did we do all of the hippie voodoo shit already? Wow, now what do we do for the other 30 minutes?
0:28:18 – Speaker 1
You know all that you came prepared.
0:28:20 – Speaker 2
I know, Scott, I didn’t start the timer. Now I’m having some anxiety about it 30 minutes. We’re at 30?.
0:28:26 – Speaker 1
0:28:27 – Speaker 2
Okay, I’m gonna start it right now. So now we only go up to 30. Thank you, Scott.
0:28:30 – Speaker 1
You’re welcome.
0:28:31 – Speaker 2
All right, so back to all the prepping that you did for today’s session, cannot? This is part two. Do you even remember what part one is? I cannot, I cannot.
0:28:44 – Speaker 3
I honestly have no idea what is your role in the podcast.
0:28:48 – Speaker 1
I show up, I’m your support.
0:28:49 – Speaker 2
Do you just bring like what?
0:28:51 – Speaker 3
I entertain it. I’m your muse.
0:28:55 – Speaker 1
At the end of the season. I want to have a contest, and the person who can tell us the exact number of times that Erin says I cannot will win something.
0:29:06 – Speaker 3
Yes, yes. Or fascinating, that’s her other, or incredible, fascinating and incredible are her favorites.
0:29:13 – Speaker 2
That’s incredible. The other thing I say a lot is. My favorite part is. My favorite part is I do. I say fascinating a lot. I cannot. I say it all the time. I know. Did I tell you that I was having a brunch with Greg Irwin’s dad?
0:29:31 – Speaker 1
Oh, yes, the other day.
0:29:32 – Speaker 2
He was like your deadpan face to Rebecca is on point and I’m like that’s fantastic because I didn’t even know. Oh yeah, that’s just me looking at you.
0:29:43 – Speaker 3
Being like are you kidding me? I know Well. See, when I started working from home almost 10 years ago and had to do the Zoom meetings, that’s when I realized my face is not OK during staff meetings.
No, and to the point where my boss sometimes, when we were on big group meetings and he knew how I felt about certain things, he would screenshot it and then text it to me and be like this is her response to this, and I would have to keep my shit together Because you know I crack up at everything and I would be dinged and I’d look at it and I’d be like, ah, that’s so funny. No, in the middle of Zoom meeting.
0:30:20 – Speaker 1
Yeah, because Zoom was very clear to me 10 years ago and then when the whole world went on, that’s when everybody else really needed to inform their face. Yeah, hilarious.
0:30:29 – Speaker 2
I can smell this lace off through my sweatshirt. Do you see what?
0:30:32 – Speaker 3
my sweatshirt says today yeah, I bought you that. Yeah, you did. Expensive and difficult.
0:30:36 – Speaker 2
Yeah, and then I put this on and I’m like this isn’t for me. This is Rebecca’s shirt. This is totally Rebecca’s shirt, ok, so you don’t remember what we talked about last time. No, can you do a little recap? Yeah, sure, I can, absolutely Happy to. Oh my god. So we were trying to talk about some of the other sides of empathy, both the places that we have really good boundaries around empathy.
0:31:00 – Speaker 3
Oh, boundaries, oh yeah, just saying those boundaries and the places that we’ve got it.
0:31:04 – Speaker 2
Ok, ok, good, now you’re on board. Yeah, that’s good, let’s do an example.
0:31:08 – Speaker 1
No, why don’t you take out your notes?
0:31:11 – Speaker 2
Oh, done, not there. So we were talking about having things that we have no trouble with setting empathy boundaries. Your list was too long to even write out because you don’t have any problems setting empathy boundaries, nothing, nothing, and then. So I’ll recap that, and then we’re going to move into places where we do have trouble setting empathy boundaries. Ok, now I would like you to be thinking about places where you have no trouble setting empathy boundaries, which is basically everywhere, so that you can maybe add to the recap, because, as I said before, you have one item on your list here, ok, and then another bullet point and there’s nothing else on there, and the only thing that’s on your list is your kids, I know.
0:31:56 – Speaker 1
I know, ok, that’s true so here’s the recap.
0:31:59 – Speaker 2
Erin has pretty good empathy boundaries when you hurt someone that I love, when I’m overwhelmed, when you’re rude and you’re an idiot, when I don’t see any progress from you and when you lack accountability.
0:32:15 – Speaker 3
I mean, those are all mine too, but then we just keep going. Correct, there’s just a whole long list.
0:32:22 – Speaker 2
So those are the things that I feel I have a pretty good handle on my empathy Because, for whatever reason, they’re either triggers for me or it allows me to really separate myself from the humanness of that other person. So those are my empathy boundaries. Those are all yours as well. The only thing we have on your side in addition to that that you have good empathy boundaries on is your kids, and we decided in a previous session that that is because you care so deeply about their success and their ability to be able to be good humans who successfully function in the world, that if you felt that you were too soft with them, that you would actually be doing them a disservice.
0:33:11 – Speaker 3
Yeah, I kind of feel like that’s how you develop grit as a child is by your mom laying down the law.
0:33:19 – Speaker 2
Yes, and.
0:33:20 – Speaker 3
Now don’t get me wrong. I assess the situation and there are times I’m not anti-hugging, I’m not anti-relating, I’m not anti-sitting with their feelings, with them, but I am much more of a realist than I am sitting in the emotions they come to me. For that I also don’t have those kind of emotions.
0:33:49 – Speaker 2
I am not sad when I lose a game.
0:33:52 – Speaker 3
I am not sad. That just doesn’t exist. So it’s hard for me to relate to those and I’m like really Stop being a loser.
0:33:59 – Speaker 2
It’s hard for you to have empathy for the fact that they lost a game, because in your mind you’re like well, do better. Exactly.
0:34:06 – Speaker 3
OK, you want to excel. Do better, practice, more Right Maybe, or go down to a lower, lower.
0:34:16 – Speaker 1
Find a different age group.
0:34:17 – Speaker 2
Yeah, go down a notch. Yeah, I mean again just a realist. So you do have good boundaries, empathy boundaries with your kid. Where else do you have good empathy boundaries? You’re great at the store because you’re not going to engage with anyone else Correct?
0:34:34 – Speaker 3
Unless it’s like dire, you know, somebody falls and breaks their leg on the wet floor because there was no signage and they were taken off guard. Yes, I have empathy for that.
0:34:46 – Speaker 2
You do. Are you helping that person?
0:34:48 – Speaker 3
Yes, you are by form of getting someone else to help them. Yes, oh my god. Hey, something happened over there.
0:35:01 – Speaker 2
This woman’s screaming in pain and you go right over to her and you’re like, ma’am, I’m going to get someone.
0:35:07 – Speaker 3
No, I don’t even tell her that I just go get someone Just do it.
0:35:11 – Speaker 2
And then what? Do you just leave? Yeah, then you’re out.
0:35:13 – Speaker 3
Yeah, ok, I took care of that Right. It’s done, right.
0:35:15 – Speaker 2
And then you immediately call me and you’re like I helped somebody today. She doesn’t know it, but I helped her.
0:35:20 – Speaker 1
0:35:20 – Speaker 2
OK, ok, so you basically have fantastic empathy boundaries at all times. Yes, so this? Flip flop for the most part, unless I’m completely triggered by my non-boundaries Right, which is this is the part you did not want to talk about at all and why you probably didn’t prep anything for it. So my list of no empathy boundaries is incredibly long, right, just like your list of empathy boundaries is long, right, right. So if you catch me at a moment when I am eager to support or help, which is a free minute of every day.
Well, sometimes it’s a little more than others, right? So sometimes if I’m super overwhelmed, I’m able to have better boundaries around. Someone who slips into my DMs and is like, hey, can I talk to you about my child with sensory processing disorder? I know you have a lot of experience in this area. Can you give me some information? Right, if I’m really overwhelmed, I’m going to be better about not engaging in that conversation, ok, ok, but if I’m in a good place, you’ll do it all day long.
Oh, I’ll seek it out. I’ve noticed I’ve been doing that lately. I’m on a couple groups in Facebook and I’ll just read what people have written and then I’ll be like I can help that person. I can’t, and then I’ll write in. So, for instance, one the other day was I have a really toxic supervisor and I want to leave, and my last day in the office is such and such a day and I need to leave an away message. What should my away message say? Because it just doesn’t feel good for me to point up to if you need something, contact my supervisor. And so this will happen to me. I’m like let it go. Let it go. You don’t have to answer that question, but I do, but I do, but I do.
0:37:22 – Speaker 3
I have a specific stage. In fact here’s my phone number if you want to call and talk it through, I’m here all night.
0:37:29 – Speaker 2
I’m sick Day, In fact. I’m just going to tell you what to write so you can copy and paste it.
0:37:34 – Speaker 1
And that’s exactly what I did, of course, you did so.
0:37:36 – Speaker 2
I said what we say in this situation is quote my last day at the university is date period. If you have any questions, here is the link to the campus directory to find the best office to support your needs period. What it should have said is here’s the link to your campus’s concerned center page, because it’s a whole lot easier to find than just some random directory. But I digress.
0:38:00 – Speaker 3
Right Didn’t want to get on that so.
0:38:01 – Speaker 1
Well, I mean.
0:38:03 – Speaker 2
And then I said and then you shut off the lights, you shut the door, you walk out and you never think about that place again, right? Well, then 12 people have liked it. So then I’m further enforced. Oh, because I’m like yes, nailing.
0:38:18 – Speaker 3
That helps some people Nailing it.
0:38:19 – Speaker 2
That helps some people.
0:38:20 – Speaker 3
0:38:22 – Speaker 2
So then anonymous member, who is the person who’s posted, writes back and now is saying that’s really great. I really appreciate that Sounds great. I do also still have insiders who are going to let me know how the department continues to fail, even though I’m not going to be a part of it anymore because I’m petty. Af is what they said, and I just need to know right Now. Let it go, let it go. You don’t need to respond to that person, but I do.
0:38:55 – Speaker 3
Right, yeah, here we go. What’d you say? You know what I?
0:38:59 – Speaker 2
said no, I don’t. I can understand why you would feel the need to have to feel validation and support from the fact that the department continues to crumble because you’re not involved, and I would encourage you to think about ways in which that’s reinforcing your own need for self assurance and remembrance that it was not you. In my experience, when I had to keep going, in my experience, when I fully grasped that what I was really seeking was validation for myself, that this place wasn’t going to be fine without me, and I made peace with that, is when I really allowed myself to see that this happened for a reason and it was the reason of allowing me to leave. And now I’m living my happiest and best life and I can actually thank them for providing me with the necessary means to leave that specific position. Well, the person doesn’t write back because I think they’re like here we go. I just wanted to know what I put up for my away message.
0:40:14 – Speaker 3
Right, Well, and reality is they don’t want to do that work. They want to be validated.
0:40:18 – Speaker 2
I know but I like got to just drop some knowledge. I mean, I just got to drop some rate, because what did I just say? You want to talk about accountability? Right, I’m like we don’t need to be petty. You want to know where the petty comes from, because I’ve been petty before.
It comes from this internal need and desire to have to realize it wasn’t you, yeah, which is because you don’t know that or feel that deep down, right, right. But as you and I know, these things happen Right. And then we say to ourselves I’m in a much better place now than I was before and I wouldn’t have left otherwise. Yeah, I needed it to be that way, right, right. So when I feel like you’ve caught me at a moment where I can engage, I can drop some knowledge, I can try and be helpful in some way, and I have the time and energy to be able to do it, I’ve terrible about cutting that off, because what usually happens I’m not kidding, nine, nine out of ten times is anonymous member slides into my DMs. I feel like that’s a thing that the kids say.
0:41:25 – Speaker 3
I know, you know, I think it’s a little dirty.
0:41:28 – Speaker 2
Yeah, it doesn’t sound right.
0:41:29 – Speaker 3
Terrible Right OK.
0:41:30 – Speaker 2
But I said it because I was trying to be cool.
0:41:33 – Speaker 3
Ok, yeah, because that’s our demographic Right. Right, in fact, I’m sorry Again, d rail yesterday at my my teenage daughter’s soccer game. We’re sitting on the bleachers and my younger daughter is doing some tic-tac dance for one of the one of the player’s grandpas and she says she starts going in West Virginia. Born or raised on the playground, that is where I spent most of my days and I turned to her and I said that is not it. And she goes what do you mean? That is it. I said no, it’s West Philadelphia. She’s like no, it’s not. And I go, I turn around to the other mothers, I go, everybody else in my age demographic.
Where was the Fresh Prince born?
0:42:15 – Speaker 2
And at the same time they all say West Philadelphia.
0:42:18 – Speaker 3
Born and serves like no mom, I think you need to re listen to it.
0:42:23 – Speaker 1
I’m like no, you’re wrong.
0:42:25 – Speaker 3
Again again with my children, right? I’m not going to be like, oh, maybe it is. Maybe they changed it no no wrong.
0:42:32 – Speaker 2
If they did change it, they shouldn’t have your wrong.
0:42:34 – Speaker 3
In fact, step. You sound like an idiot, Right.
0:42:40 – Speaker 2
So yeah, maybe work on your dance moves from the tic-tac Right.
What happens nine out of 10 times is anonymous member slides into my DMS and is like, hey, I really liked what you, what you said. Can I ask you a couple more questions? Oh God, sure. And then I’m like, absolutely, yeah. And then here we are. You know, I’ve been having an ongoing conversation with one woman on Facebook that I have never met in my life. I have helped her diagnose her son. I have helped her get him on the correct medication regimen. I have helped him get evaluated. I have helped her and her partner come to terms with the fact that he needs a different type of parenting style that she’s then she was currently giving him. When I met this woman and it was all from one post on some social media platform that I again here was no empathy boundaries. She caught me in a moment where I was eager to help and had the time to do it and I said I have some experience with this. If you’d like to talk about it with someone, please feel free to send me a DM, can’t?
0:43:47 – Speaker 3
I’m just thinking about that. I’m so over it. I am so over it. There is not one thing about that. That. I’m like that’s sweet, ew, it’s a lot of energy, it’s a lot of time.
0:43:59 – Speaker 1
I’m with you, thank you.
0:44:02 – Speaker 2
Come back in the bubble. There he is, so what?
0:44:04 – Speaker 1
do you mean Just like on the screen? I’m in the middle here, I get it. I do the same thing, aaron. I do the same thing. Yes, there’s always someone reaching out, and let me tell you how many times someone has reached out about podcasting advice and then has turned around and tried to open up a competing place. What?
Yes, it’s happened quite a few times. So now, when someone says, hey, can I pick your brain, I say, sure, sign this NDA and it’s, and it’s 150 bucks an hour. Yeah, because I’ve helped a lot of people who, when they were finished, either never gave me props like they should have, like, hey, thanks to Scott from Rockbox for helping out with this situation. Yeah, instead they were just like look what I did, yep, and it’s like you can do that, you piece of crap, wow. So, and I, I’m always the kind of person who says, oh, yeah, I know a little bit about this, let me help you know.
And then it turns into this marathon of now I’m doing all this free work for someone which you know it starts off as a favor that it ends up being this thing that I’m like no, it needs to stop now. So I’ve had to rain. I’ve had to rain that in. Yeah.
0:45:19 – Speaker 3
And that’s hard. I can. I can appreciate that that would be hard to do. I’m always giving Aaron advice in her business and I’m like people should not have free rain access to you as the president of your company. They should have to jump through at least six hoops to get to you. And she cannot comprehend that.
0:45:38 – Speaker 1
Right. Try to get in touch with the CEO of T-Mobile and ask him about cell phones.
0:45:43 – Speaker 3
Right, I’m like mm-mm.
0:45:46 – Speaker 1
It’s true, there are so many.
0:45:49 – Speaker 3
And but you? But again, you’re just a your relationship oriented, you are customer service oriented, you are exactly all the things and I’m like no.
0:45:59 – Speaker 2
And so it. You’re like me, Scott, in that I think you think everyone puts their pants on the same way.
0:46:05 – Speaker 1
0:46:05 – Speaker 2
Right. So you don’t think you’re better than anyone else. You’re not like, yeah, I run a really successful podcasting studio here in Bushnell’s basin, you know. But yeah, I’m happy to help, right, but you’re not thinking I’m I’m superior, I’m better, you know you have to come and learn from me.
0:46:23 – Speaker 1
My imposter syndrome is kicking all the time. Yeah, oh interesting.
0:46:29 – Speaker 2
So yours is imposter syndrome and mine is. We’re all in this together. Now, to be fair, this is where I think what you’re talking about makes a lot of sense to me that if someone said to me hey, could I pick your brain on how concern center is so successful?
0:46:46 – Speaker 1
because I’m thinking about running, you know care center, you know, or something like that. I’m thinking about starting a competing organization.
0:46:53 – Speaker 2
Exactly I would be like roadmap is nothing for you.
0:46:56 – Speaker 1
0:46:57 – Speaker 2
You know I’m not sharing any of that Now two years ago, that wouldn’t be you.
0:47:02 – Speaker 3
Hmm, I don’t think so. Uh huh.
0:47:05 – Speaker 2
I don’t think so. I think I would have given given away the secrets to the kingdom.
0:47:09 – Speaker 3
Well, because you weren’t full, full into your business. It was like a side gig, and when it’s a side gig and you know you’re just doing it because you value and support people, services and mental health and success. At the end of the day, you didn’t care how people got it. But now you’re you’re all in.
0:47:28 – Speaker 2
But you know what this is fascinating. I love this. So why I wouldn’t give away the keys to the kingdom is not as much about I’m protecting Aaron and what Aaron has built with concern center. It’s about those of you on my team all 15 of you who have put all of your time, effort, energy and love into this that it would be unfair of me to undercut that work so even in that it’s about you guys.
We have a rockin team. Oh yeah, Amazing team. I would not do anything at all to undercut that or to give anyone the keys to the castle so that anyone could make that go away or could try and do it better, but that’s another part of it. For me is I’m 100 percent confident. No one does concern center better than concern center?
0:48:16 – Speaker 3
Of course not. And then then there’s me. My empathy is always towards you and I just want to protect your time, talent and energy. And I’m like no, no, no, no, no, no. She is not an open door. Her gate may be wide open all the time, but I need to come in and manage that, because yes, you know, and that’s very important to me.
0:48:36 – Speaker 2
You do, oh, I do. To the point where you said no one has access to your calendar, they will come through me. You need to run all of your appointments by me and I’ll let you know if you really need to be there.
0:48:47 – Speaker 1
Because I need one of those. I need to, rebecca, I need one.
0:48:51 – Speaker 3
Yeah, and you have to sign the NDA and that’s $150.
0:48:59 – Speaker 2
That’s interesting, though, scott. So are there other places outside of the podcast realm that you are being tapped for, knowledge or information that you will give freely, that you do not feel as disappointed by or angry by if someone takes that information and runs with it?
0:49:20 – Speaker 1
Not really. So I get hit up every once in a while about filmmaking things. You know because we made a movie or voiceover stuff, anything that’s in the realm of what.
0:49:29 – Speaker 2
I do.
0:49:30 – Speaker 1
You know, people hit me up here and there and I think I’ve become pretty good at gauging what they’re after and how what they’re asking me. If they’re asking me, hey, I’ve got this problem with this program and I don’t know how to do this. All right, yeah, you do this, you click this and that’s it. But if it’s like, yeah, I was wondering how I can build a studio in my basement.
0:49:52 – Speaker 2
Right yeah.
0:49:53 – Speaker 1
It’s like, yeah, okay, well, now we have to go through a couple of things here to make sure that it’s safe for me to do that.
0:50:03 – Speaker 2
Interesting when they started asking you hey, do you know where I could get some of those cream and gray chairs for my podcast? Oh and by the way, do you happen to have Aaron or Rebecca’s email address? I? Was just oh no.
0:50:20 – Speaker 1
You wouldn’t give them access to that. No, no, I wasn’t always kidding me.
0:50:22 – Speaker 2
No, but I have to give them access to that guy, because you’ll still feel so validated, rebecca, and I’ll be like who is this? No, scott’s our main man.
0:50:33 – Speaker 1
No, I did. I did have a situation where there were some some poaching went on with some of my clients and it was kind of. It was kind of cool because there was a lot of karma involved. So I started at the end of 2017, we opened in 2018, right, and a lot of the things that we see now started because of the pandemic, but I was already up and running for two years by the pandemic, and so the person that I’m talking about actually decided to launch right as the pandemic started. So there was no way to get going, and this person was also a hobbyist and hasn’t been doing production for 30 years.
So, you know what I mean. But that’s the kind of and I’m sure there’s a similar kind of thing in your field. It’s like the armchair quarterback person who watches a lot of YouTube videos and now they’re an expert. That’s right.
0:51:37 – Speaker 2
You mean in mental health therapy, which many people believe is just sitting down with people and giving them your own experience of how they can change their lives.
0:51:46 – Speaker 1
It’s crinkling your eyebrows and being and listening really well, isn’t that? That’s all it is.
0:51:50 – Speaker 2
I say constantly if y’all can do what I can do after 11 years of training, I wasted a lot of time and money for no reason, right Exactly. But many, many people think, oh, I’m just a good communicator, right. Or when you say, oh well, what makes you a really good listener? Well, I share my experiences with people, right?
0:52:12 – Speaker 3
Well, that’s actually Problem number one, the worst, right, yeah, the worst thing you can do.
0:52:16 – Speaker 2
There’s so much that goes into the art of listening to people and I think that when you talk about that as a superpower, right, that is a part of it. People are not used to feeling seen and heard and understood and validated. You know, it’s a true skill, absolutely. It just so happens to be an extension of who I genuinely am as a person, so it comes very naturally to me because I’m curious and I wanna know and I wanna help, right, and all of those things. But yeah, I agree with Scott wholeheartedly, they’re very much as this sense of well, you know, I happen to be the person for all of my friends who comes and talks to me about all of their problems and I’m like, wonderful, and that is a service, you are providing a service. But let’s be clear that that is also not mental health therapy.
0:53:03 – Speaker 3
Right, right, right, you just get lucky because you get free mental health therapy services all the time, constantly, In fact, on the way here, when we were talking about all things, I thought, man, if I didn’t pay for this right, oh, I mean. I would not. I mean, I would be broke, straight up broke, even the shit she forces me to do. Straight up broke, that’s right, I love it. All right, so no empathy boundaries.
0:53:30 – Speaker 2
One catch me at a moment when I’m eager to support her help, if I have extra time. Another area is if you’re incredibly close to me, so you’re part of my inner circle. I have no empathy boundaries around that. I could have the biggest presentation of my life coming up, some TED Talk, in front of a million people, and if you or anyone in my inner circle were to call me and say this is what just happened to me, I’d call the thing off and I’d be there. There is zero boundary around that.
Which is to your point another reason why I have to keep that inner circle where that inner circle is, because when you’re doing that for 50 people, for 100 people, right? If I don’t have a good boundary around that, then I’m never doing a presentation, right.
0:54:19 – Speaker 1
I’m never doing any of that.
0:54:21 – Speaker 2
So if you’re really close to me, you’re in my inner circle. The other one I have here is my kid man. So isn’t it fascinating that your kid, because of how you love you, have empathy boundaries around your kid. Because of that, and I guarantee you, my kid has mastered the manipulation of how he gets what he needs to get out of his mom. And I know it and I still let it happen all of the time, because it is crucially important to me to protect his heart at all times and for me to constantly get to the heart of the feeling associated with every single thing that’s going on for him.
And then that’s where that patience comes in, because I will stick with that until the end of time, right? And so it’s good when we come over to your house and he gets a little slap back into reality about this, let’s not forget how great your mom is, cause you could have Aunt back as your mom. Okay, you’re not sure what the other side looks like. Come on over, honey. You spend 15 minutes over there, right? So when it comes to my kid terrible, with my empathy boundaries, because he is an extension of my soul he is the person I feel is the most like me in this world and I feel a great sense of protection and my way of protecting is constant love and empathy. It doesn’t mean I don’t get mad at him, it doesn’t mean that I’m not saying things sometimes, that I don’t write, but I will always come back around and it will always take precedent.
0:56:07 – Speaker 3
And I am very non-judgmental of that. I’m very supportive of that. I never say to you oh my God, erin, your kid is a pain in the ass because of how you raise him. Never, absolutely. And you don’t ever say to me wow, you’re a bitch. And maybe you do, but you because we can both appreciate and value and both of our kids are amazing human beings and they learn a lot from each other and they both appreciate our perspectives.
0:56:40 – Speaker 2
Yeah, and they come to us for different things.
0:56:42 – Speaker 3
0:56:43 – Speaker 2
I remember there was one time I can’t remember the exact scenario, oh, it was you going to Florida and Taylor having a reaction to that, and you were taken the hard line of don’t care how you feel about this, doesn’t matter, get on the plane, this is what we’re doing. And you’re right. I never said to you maybe we could be a little softer or maybe we could understand this All I said to you was, from a developmental perspective, I can see where she’s coming from, because the only thing that she cares about right now in her life is social connectedness, and the minute you miss out on any degree of social connectedness at her age, you are eons behind and they will leave you in the dust. So it’s about acceptance, it’s about being a part of the group, right? This is perfectly developmentally appropriate.
0:57:31 – Speaker 3
But the way you said it allowed me to say tell me more about that. What are some things that I can still do? Because I’m not, she’s not gonna stay home, she’s not gonna not go to Florida, so what can? And then you gave me some suggestions and I did them, even though I did not want to. And it really made a difference.
0:57:50 – Speaker 2
Absolutely One of the things I said to you, which I think is a really good tactic. As I say, try it once. You don’t have to commit to it forever, right, but when she says this, have this be your response and see how it goes right. And then you did that, and then you saw a different version of her right and, to be fair, I’m not a hundred percent sure that this concoction of things is what’s gonna work. So there’s some hypothesis testing on my part Sure, but you but I get to the core of what I think she’s feeling, and then I can You’re much more willing to relate to her and empathize with her, where I’m not, I’m much more like.
0:58:32 – Speaker 3
This is what we’re doing. You figure it out and that’s the way it’s gonna be, so that’s what’s really cool again about our relationship is we are non-judgmental of either one of our. In fact, we actually learn and we joke all the time because you’ll come to me and you’ll be like maybe you do know something.
0:58:52 – Speaker 2
Right and my kid just manipulated the shit out of me. Just so we’re real clear. He did this thing at school and we both knew that he was wrong. And he came in and he sat on my lap and he said Thumb, I need to talk to you about something.
And he knows that when you start like that, I’m all in, right. Oh, what is it, honey? Right, I just said this to Mark last night. I just said do you wanna know what? Carter’s getting really good at Getting me to do things with him. Like he’ll say mom, I was wondering if maybe you would like to play Mario Kart with me tonight. And then I’m like the wait, if he was like mom, you wanna play Mario Kart, doesn’t hit me, but mom, I was wondering if maybe you would like to. Right. Or he’ll say mom, one of my favorite things to do is watch movies with you. Do you think we have time tonight to watch a movie? Sure, do that’s hilarious we don’t, but we do now.
That’s hilarious Because again I’m like bing bing all in.
0:59:49 – Speaker 3
And here’s my kid. So he was like mommy, can we watch a movie?
0:59:51 – Speaker 2
No, what time is it? What kind of movie is it? Absolutely not. We haven’t even eaten dinner yet. It’s nine o’clock. What kind of movie is?
0:59:56 – Speaker 3
it, am I gonna like it. If I don’t like it, I’m not watching it.
0:59:59 – Speaker 1
Is it about?
0:59:59 – Speaker 3
murder. Maybe we’ll watch some of it. Yeah, and I’m like well, you only have 10 minutes, so if it can fit it in there, yeah, right, yeah.
1:00:07 – Speaker 2
Start the movie. It’s done in the next seven minutes.
1:00:11 – Speaker 3
Then it’s time for bed, Mom can you do my nails no too tired? What about tomorrow? Maybe?
1:00:16 – Speaker 2
Mom, you told me three days ago you’d do my nails. Well, get over it. Life happens Right. And I’m like I feel guilty. I didn’t do the nails. I’m gonna do the nails. In fact, I’m not gonna do the nails, I’m just gonna pay for you to go get your nails done. That’s what I’m gonna do. All right, the last thing I have on my list. God, we’re over time again, I know.
1:00:35 – Speaker 1
Yeah, and I have a 1030.
1:00:37 – Speaker 2
Okay, oh Scott, Did you hear Scott pipe in? He was like he’s like hurry up girls. You know what he said Move bitch, get out the way. The last thing I have on my list here is if you’re incredibly ill, if you’re really ill, if you’re really hurt, if you are, the more target bathroom you are, the more I’m running in Mm-hmm, the more I’m coming in. I don’t have good empathy boundaries around that as well. I’m just all the way in.
1:01:05 – Speaker 1
1:01:07 – Speaker 2
So again, we haven’t talked at all about your thing that you do not have any empathy boundaries on. That’s fine, because I took up the whole first half hour and I know you don’t even wanna talk about it, but I’d like to give you a mini homework assignment.
1:01:20 – Speaker 3
No, I can just say the one thing. I can say one thing what For me, it’s animals. It’s for me, it’s animals. I cannot watch animal commercials. I cannot watch any animal movies, including cartoon ones, I cannot. It brings emotions to me that I cannot deal with at all. And this is. You can ask my mother, this is from when I was a little child.
1:01:45 – Speaker 2
Ugh, we just had the most beautiful session of ways, in which people just really tug at my empathy and write and you’re like, you know what it is for me, mm-hmm.
1:01:55 – Speaker 3
Groundhogs Mm-hmm. Oh my God, I can’t. I can’t when they’re little paws.
1:02:00 – Speaker 2
I just want to touch the little paws. So what you’re saying is animals and me. Those are the two areas in which you have no empathy boundaries. You don’t have any empathy boundaries around me. You want to, but you don’t, I know.
1:02:12 – Speaker 3
It’s not healthy.
1:02:13 – Speaker 2
You don’t.
1:02:14 – Speaker 3
The codependence is raging.
1:02:16 – Speaker 2
It’s not. I know it’s like I’m not okay right now. You are in it to win it. So me and animals, those are the two things on your list. We could probably dive a little deeper, but you’re hoping that we don’t and you’ve been saved by the bell here. Yeah, Mm-hmm.
1:02:35 – Speaker 3
Don’t get me wrong, I do have empathy for my children. It just it’s. You know, there are times that I’m like I can’t handle, you know, but I don’t let them necessarily know that Right, I’m not good at letting other people know that I’m feeling certain ways. You feel all the feels, but they just aren’t going to be privy to them.
1:02:56 – Speaker 2
In on part of the discussion. Correct, Got it? Mm-hmm, gotta keep up the facade. Yeah, on that note. On that note, we’re not even gonna do an empathy problem today because Scott yelled at us, okay.
1:03:09 – Speaker 3
Get your oils, name them mermaid.
1:03:12 – Speaker 2
Yeah, make sure you name them mermaid.
1:03:14 – Speaker 3
See you next time.
1:03:15 – Speaker 2
Bye. I loved that Me too. Isn’t empathy amazing?
1:03:20 – Speaker 3
Well, we’re amazing. I don’t know about all this empathy stuff.
1:03:24 – Speaker 2
That’s fine. I accept you wherever you are. Oh God, I love you. I love you too, and if you love us, please like and subscribe to More Love, the power of empathy podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time, that’s okay.

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