00;00;00;00 – 00;00;34;09
Unknown
Hey, it’s me Erin Thanks for joining us on the Moor Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside. But the truth is, she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Here she comes. Hey, bestie. Hi, love. What are you doing?
00;00;34;10 – 00;01;00;18
Unknown
Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast about what? Our life. Our life as best friends who are more like sisters. Oh, yay, I love this, and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world, especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right to be our most authentic selves. Oh, man. Okay. You know, this is what happens after we don’t talk to each other for like, eight days.
00;01;00;22 – 00;01;18;04
Unknown
Now we got to have a massive, I don’t think interactions session. And you’re like, I can’t talk to you about this right now. And so what do I hear? We’re talking about it. No, no, no. You just ask me. I’m like, I’m not. We’re not talking about it because you are gonna wait. No, no wait wait wait. You said so.
00;01;18;04 – 00;01;34;18
Unknown
I was crying on Mother’s Day. I said why? And you said, well, we’re not. I can’t talk about it right now. So again, I hear. Yeah, we’re off and talking about it. So we’re absolutely talking about it. And I say, no, we can’t because I don’t have all the information. And you’re going to have 27 questions that I can’t answer.
00;01;34;20 – 00;02;00;24
Unknown
Right. And I know you well enough. I’m not perfect that. So then you very kindly continue the conversation. Yeah. And don’t ask questions. But I know deep down you need to know. And then I can’t keep my mouth shut. No, wait. My favorite part is you said so. You’re right. I didn’t ask any questions, but I was like, okay, well, you do know that I’m the person that you can come to for y z advice and you’re like, yeah, I know, and it just has to you.
00;02;00;24 – 00;02;16;01
Unknown
And then before, you know, boom, we’re right into it. You’re like, well, I guess we’re talking about it. I said, I guess we are has the masterful power of a therapist right there. But then I said, I had this idea. Keep your questions in your head until you know what they are. But then how did you feel three seconds into the conversation?
00;02;16;01 – 00;02;31;03
Unknown
Because I was already alone saying that I know and pissed off. I know, I know, and if you want to hype girl, you call her. That’s right, that’s right. And especially if you let me know what you’re looking for in advance. I did not get out of the park. I said, this is one of those situations that I don’t give a shit.
00;02;31;03 – 00;02;45;06
Unknown
You just tell me that I’m amazing. How many things did I do? Good. Yeah. At the escape. Escape room? Yeah. We’re not talking about all this time now. Screwed it up. No, but what did I do now? And I want at least 20 of them. Yeah, because I’m going to be here for 20 minutes while you talk about it.
00;02;45;07 – 00;02;59;26
Unknown
Keep going till I tell you to stop. What do I do? That’s exactly what I do. And am I thankful that you said that? Yeah. You gave me directions and I’m going to follow them. Yeah. Great. Great. Listen, before we have a guest today, I’m really excited about our guest. But before we get into that, I have to tell you this craziest story that happened to me.
00;02;59;27 – 00;03;21;08
Unknown
Okay? I am driving down the road. I’m talking to Rene on my phone. Car, my car phone. Right. That’s it. And then, as you say, the band. The band. Right. Because this apparently. And my car, it goes boom, boom, boom, boom boom. Every time someone. No, I can’t hear. But the person on the other end can hear it loud and clear and it’s very distorted.
00;03;21;08 – 00;03;47;06
Unknown
Exactly. So I’m driving down the street. I am almost to where you turn into my housing, complex. Yeah. There is a white vehicle coming this way. So coming toward me, and I’m headed east. Okay, you try this. You don’t know. At least see, whatever it was 100% east, maybe northeast, I don’t know, but anyway, I’m driving. I am talking to Rene.
00;03;47;06 – 00;04;12;05
Unknown
I don’t know, talking about garage sales. Who the hell knows what we’re talking about? This cat bolts across the street. Ends up under the white car. The car hits stop cats. Why are you with me? I said I’m going to resolve it for you. Hang on the car hits the cat. I’m going to show you what that cat looks like.
00;04;12;07 – 00;04;30;19
Unknown
One arm up here, one leg over here. This is like, like that. It ran over it. It hit the cat. I am on the car. I am on the phone with Rene. I’m like, oh my God. Oh, just hit the cat. It just hit this cat. Oh my God, oh my God. I don’t want to do what I want to do.
00;04;30;19 – 00;04;48;18
Unknown
So I slow down in this car keeps going like I’m like, you didn’t see anything. You mother happened. You just keep going. So now it’s full empathy mode. I’m like, I got to stop. I got to go help the cat. I got to know. But then all these, these feelings start to come up for me. I’m like, if I stop to get this cat and the cat’s not in a good place, I.
00;04;48;19 – 00;05;03;12
Unknown
What am I going to do? Snap. It’s not like I’m not like, oh my God, figure out what I have to do for this cat. What if it makes a noise? It’s not going to be okay, right? So then I start to slow down. I don’t know if it’s dead, I don’t know, but I’m telling you. One arm up here, one leg over here.
00;05;03;18 – 00;05;25;16
Unknown
This thing, I saw it get hit like, oh, sorry. Yeah, it’s not funny. And it’s, it’s not because it’s this cat. You know how much I love cats. I know I’m losing my mind with with Rene. I’m like, oh, my God, I just saw get here. I don’t know what to do. So I start to slow down this car again, going right again, going west up the street doesn’t have a care in the world.
00;05;25;16 – 00;05;41;02
Unknown
So then I say, well, I don’t want this. I don’t want me slowing down to make this house think that I’m the one that hit the cat. Oh, right. So I’ve gone from empathy to fear that I’m going to be associated. I look in my side mirror, stop it. It gets up and walk away. Shut up. Listen to me.
00;05;41;04 – 00;06;02;13
Unknown
Think it’s like this? It’s like this. It goes boom. And then it goes, oh, crazy, oh crazy, oh, I’m crazy. And then it bolts across the street I again, here I am on the on the car phone with Rene. I’m like Rene got up. Oh my. Got it, got it. It’s alive, it’s alive. Oh my God I, I can that just happen.
00;06;02;15 – 00;06;26;13
Unknown
This thing got hit I saw it get hit. It had. Thank you Scott for this is really perfect timing with the Jesus music coming in this thing got totally hit. And then it did like a tuna confused itself, ran across the street. What’s the one thing Rene says? Why now I only do have nine lives in lock step, I lost it.
00;06;26;13 – 00;06;50;28
Unknown
That wasn’t the best response because I’m not kidding. That’s life number six right there. That was gone. Boom. Done. Hands up. Got up. Reengaged. So I went home. I couldn’t stop talking about. No, I couldn’t stop talking about it. I could not believe I’ve seen anything like that in my life. I’m guessing right up. You only got three left, buddy, so use it wisely.
00;06;51;01 – 00;07;11;11
Unknown
There wasn’t much free to see both cars coming. Why don’t you go back home? Dumb shit. Yeah. Go house cats. Yeah, I know right? Maybe stay inside, get your flea collar on to stay fucking inside I cannot. So that happened. I had to tell you that was absolutely nuts. You got some cards for us today? Yeah. Before we head into our guest, that.
00;07;11;11 – 00;07;27;14
Unknown
I’m really excited how we can get back a good show today. I know, I actually did a three, a threesome, a three, and I’m not going to read the three way. It’s for me personally, the title card is what we’re going to talk about. Okay. Okay. After we had the Ten of Swords. Definitely swords. Yeah. We have swords all the time now.
00;07;27;17 – 00;07;55;00
Unknown
I thought we had Pentacles all the time. Okay. No. Not me. No, no. All right. The meaning is endings. The ten as the final credit card of the swords is summing up an ending, usually involving some degree of drama. This can come as a shock or as a relief. Stop it. As you stop as you see the situation or a relationship for what it is or what it was, stop.
00;07;55;03 – 00;08;18;11
Unknown
It cannot develop or ever grow. Oh stop. Snap your middle finger. I guess, however unwanted this card may be when it arrives in its reading, it does tell the truth and helps you to see what needs to be really stop. So she later stop. I am dying out. So here’s the advice. Walk away and let go. Focus on the present and don’t dwell on the past.
00;08;18;12 – 00;08;39;10
Unknown
Oh, I’m done, oh, I’m all done. I’ll give you a book. Oh, really? I want to show you. So I’m going to show you the three. Yeah. The three something. Yeah. Oh, stop. Yeah. I mean, was that right? My nature is order. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No. It’s okay. Stop living in chaos. You know why? Because you can get on the Ritalin.
00;08;39;13 – 00;08;54;16
Unknown
Get on the Ritalin? That’s that. That’s at all. I mean, it could be night. Night came right there. It’s a secret to all of our sex. I just want the sex back. Yeah, right. Yeah. In the mirror. Looks like your boobs. Now, you know, by the way, those brows you gave me not okay. Oh, it wasn’t your boobs.
00;08;54;16 – 00;09;13;11
Unknown
They’re just terrible bras. Oh, I had two more. Yeah, I left them at home. Okay. Yeah. I’m not. That’s not great. Throw them away. Speaking of, three card pull today. That’s the little threesome pull. Yeah, that might not be at all what we’re talking about today. It’s the perfect. And for me to introduce our guest tonight. So, guys, we have a guest.
00;09;13;17 – 00;09;37;26
Unknown
We have a guest. And I got to tell you, we’ve come a long way from our first guest. I know we’re really nailing it with the guests I know so far. And I don’t think that Laura here is going to disappoint. So I’d love to introduce all of you to Doctor Laura Jergens, who is a sex relationship and embodiment coach sex relationship embodiment three things that make you highly uncomfortable that we are going to be talking about today.
00;09;37;26 – 00;09;57;09
Unknown
Great, I love it. She is also the host of Sex Help for Smart People podcast and she’s going to tell us by the end how you can reach out to her, connect with her, speak with her. She does have a client that she’s got to meet with here in a little bit. So, we will make sure that we have her on time for that appointment.
00;09;57;09 – 00;10;23;15
Unknown
But it is so nice to meet you, Laura. We’re so happy to have you here and speaking with you today. And super excited to jump into these topics. It’s great to be here. I’m still reeling from the cat story, so. It’s not okay, right? It is not okay. We about the cat because you know, now I think he’s my sponsor.
00;10;23;15 – 00;10;44;01
Unknown
He got up and like he might not be fine. You know what he got? Found something, I think. And I’m still thinking about this cat. I know I need to get my target in order. We should have one. No, sorry. That is an empathy problem. But but it it frolicked like it was the happiest thing it’s ever been in this entire life.
00;10;44;01 – 00;11;02;28
Unknown
Which is how I knew it had joined a seventh life. That sex was done and we were on the seventh. So I think they think it should be okay. And yeah, sorry about that. Sometimes we start with some zingers, so yeah, no warning. So Laura, you have to start by telling us a little bit about what you do.
00;11;02;28 – 00;11;36;11
Unknown
What is a sex relationship and embodiment coach. Right. What is that even? So. So I work with individuals and couples who have some sexual repression, which is basically everybody in our society. Or our or some just are like really feeling kind of disconnected from their own sexuality or their bodies and their kind of capacity to be in connection with their partner.
00;11;36;13 – 00;12;02;03
Unknown
So the way that I’m different from a therapist, so we involve a lot of practice, role play and some like clothes on type of touch in my practice because a lot of people actually come out don’t I’m out. Yeah you can be out. But a lot of people you know it sounds scary maybe. But the thing is, if we don’t know what we like.
00;12;02;06 – 00;12;27;13
Unknown
True and we don’t know how to ask for it. And so like and also a lot of times couples don’t really love the way they touch each other. They just don’t want to tell the other person, so we, you know, play with that. And I teach people how to experiment and see what they might like, how to give feedback, right, how to actually have conversations where they’re being heard.
00;12;27;13 – 00;12;48;26
Unknown
And there’s some empathy and there’s some vulnerability. How to do all that stuff in a relationship. We actually practice that, so that you don’t feel like it’s the, you know, you sit there in therapy and you just talk about stuff, and then 30 years later, you’ve never implemented anything compliant, which is really common. I love this so much, Laura.
00;12;48;26 – 00;13;06;22
Unknown
Why am I so uncomfortable right now? Because I know that I’m, So, so I know you mentioned in your, message to us that you listen to the podcast and you enjoy the podcast, so we very much appreciate that. So you probably know at this point that Rebecca is the shut off one. Rebecca, someone who’s like, oh, I’m out.
00;13;06;22 – 00;13;21;14
Unknown
I’m not talking about this. I don’t want to talk about touch. I don’t want to role play. It’s a way too vulnerable for me. Right. But I’m someone that you would think in this conversation then that would be more like, oh, that’s really interesting. And tell me more about that. And, you know, I’m more of the therapist type of role.
00;13;21;17 – 00;13;47;17
Unknown
When you said the word role play and touching with clothes on, I wanted to jump out of my seat. And so I know that that is not atypical to the people who are going to be coming into your office. So talk to me about why am I feeling like that? What what is that about? Yeah, well, it could be a little bit of just training, right?
00;13;47;17 – 00;14;13;21
Unknown
We’re so taught that it’s really taboo to touch other people. Right? Even with. And many of us don’t know how to do it with consent and with like a pacing that feels good to our nervous system. So it can be kind of scary to think about that, especially if we’re taught, you know, okay, we don’t. We have these like, intense boundaries, but that’s really our first language, right?
00;14;13;25 – 00;14;48;16
Unknown
We touch we as baby is this is this is how we learn about our environment. We we are touched by people around us. We were touched by our our extended family. Right? We’re often touched like we’re often held by strangers. And at what point do we as animals, decide that we are going to foreclose on that language and we’re only going to reserve it for, you know, our society has gotten to this point where it can feel scary to think about, just touch.
00;14;48;16 – 00;15;14;13
Unknown
But I just want to offer, like if you think about if you go inside and figure out, okay, so I’m activated right now, right? You know, you’re activated right now. That feeling wanting to jump out the window, you felt like you guys touched you. Yeah. Where is it? Like what? Where is that feeling in your body. I feel it in between my heart and my stomach.
00;15;14;16 – 00;15;57;10
Unknown
It’s on your boobs. Yeah. There’s in your heart. Yeah. See. Solar plexus. Yep. It is definitely heart to stomach verging on gut response. Okay. So what does it actually feel like in there. Crampy. It feels uncomfortable. It feels like gurgles like. Yeah. Nauseous tight. It feels, it feels like like coiling in like icky like a like not like a gross but like a it’s a protection feel as best can describe it.
00;15;57;10 – 00;16;17;06
Unknown
It’s like a. Yeah. It’s like a coiling in like a turtle would do or someone would be in the corner, you know, like this. Yeah. It’s almost like, that’s terrible. And I would not like to talk about that. It’s like that type of feeling. Yeah. Well that makes a lot of sense. Right. We protect in the front of our body.
00;16;17;09 – 00;16;46;16
Unknown
This is where we need to protect. This is our soft right. So like the front of our body is about protection. And there’s something about that that feels really scary. Yeah. And I don’t know I just can’t tell by her. Yeah. Yeah. Is it maybe. Like what? Let’s just ask that feeling. Can you, like, kind of go into that feeling and just breathe into it a little bit and see if you can just say, what are you what are you here to tell me?
00;16;46;18 – 00;17;09;06
Unknown
It’s a you know, what’s coming up for me is a, it’s a protection, taboo. There’s things that you talk about and things you don’t talk about in things you talk about in front of people and things you don’t talk about in front of people. And then that triggers this part of me and I. The only word that’s coming up for me is perfectionism.
00;17;09;06 – 00;17;42;10
Unknown
I don’t know if that’s the exact word that needs to come up. Yeah, that’s coming up for me. Is this, like, you you have to be very clear what you’re talking about, how Rebecca is feeling in this situation, how you’re talking to Laura, what the listeners are thinking about, what their perceptions are. So it’s the pulling in of all of that stimuli into one place about a topic that is out of my wheelhouse.
00;17;42;12 – 00;18;07;04
Unknown
Not not that sex is out of my wheelhouse. Right. But like the talk of the vulnerability and empathy of sex is something that is brand new for me. So it’s all of that coming together into one place, where we’re going to have all these conversations about this, but it’s oh so new and there’s so many people and feelings and perspectives that have to be brought in and thought about as we talk about this.
00;18;07;06 – 00;18;29;04
Unknown
It’s really interesting because I originally went to college to be a health teacher. I just wanted to teach sex education and all of that. So the sex talk is not, oh, really? The vulnerability and the emotional component. Was it when she said role play? It wasn’t the role play, it was the physical touch. I don’t I don’t even like to hug people.
00;18;29;07 – 00;18;52;06
Unknown
Yeah. At all. Like that’s not happening. Yeah. It must feel I have to. Yeah. It’s not a thing I like to do. It makes me very uncomfortable. So. So what does this what does this all mean, Laura? Like what? I mean, other than. Yeah, that we’re, well, untouchable. One thing it one thing is that you never have to do.
00;18;52;09 – 00;19;22;28
Unknown
You never have to do anything that you don’t want to. It’s an invitation. Right? So, like, you don’t have to touch anybody. You don’t have to hug anybody. You never have to hug anybody again. You never have to fuck anybody again. You never have to kiss anybody again. You don’t have to do any of that stuff. And if it feels uncomfortable, you know, it might be interesting to kind of lean into inquiring at some point, if you want to, why you’re not right, right, right.
00;19;23;03 – 00;19;41;22
Unknown
There’s nothing wrong with you either way. And I also want to say that like, you don’t have to do anything perfectly here, you know, for anybody. So it did sound like that was maybe coming up a little bit Aaron for you, like, oh, I have to somehow do this perfectly or be comfortable with everything or somehow manage everybody.
00;19;41;22 – 00;20;04;14
Unknown
Right. And yeah, that’s a lot of pressure. Oh, yeah. None of us. There’s my life there. You don’t have to care. Yeah, you don’t have to care. Take us in this moment and this is what we are doing right now is actually what you do in session. Exactly what I write like this is such an we’re figuring out, okay, what’s happening for you?
00;20;04;16 – 00;20;31;21
Unknown
What’s going on physically in your body. What are the messages it has to say? And how do we like really gently stay with that and honor it and allow it and see if that care that care is basically intimacy, right. Like we just created a little bit between us by you offering something vulnerable, which is I feel uncomfortable.
00;20;31;23 – 00;20;59;11
Unknown
Yeah. And then you, me just kind of being here with you I don’t. Yeah. I don’t have to take it away. I just like here with you seeing it like. Yeah. You feel comfortable which is normal and human and of course. Yeah. Anything new makes us uncomfortable. Yeah. You know what’s really interesting. It works. It’s right I know, I know some different degrees of uncomfortable because you’re going to talk to me about something.
00;20;59;11 – 00;21;19;16
Unknown
Psychology related I’ve not talked about before. I hang with that all day. Right. But what’s really interesting to me is I’m imagining myself coming in with my husband and sitting down and talking with you, and and that just that imagery of me doing that makes me even more uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so I’m going to ask a very stereotypical question.
00;21;19;19 – 00;21;49;13
Unknown
So the men who come to see you in heterosexual relationships, the men who come to see you with their partners, I’m imagining it’s not like couples therapy, where often times they can be more dragged in. Right? Like, oh, well, my wife wants me to be here, and we’re going to talk about this, right? I would imagine sex therapy, intimacy therapy, embodiment therapy.
00;21;49;13 – 00;22;15;09
Unknown
You know, that that coaching, if you will, is not something that men stereotypically are going to enter into unless they’re prepared to be having those types of conversations. Is that is that a true statement in your experience? Well, they’ve certainly been dragged into consults sometimes, but I don’t take them as clients if they’re dragged in by. Because both people need to be on board you know.
00;22;15;09 – 00;22;40;25
Unknown
And I’m certainly happy to have a consult with somebody who is skeptical. I mean of course you should be skeptical when I support that 1,000%. But you know, if, if you just deeply don’t want to do the work with your partner or if you deeply resent, or having to even think about working on your relationship, then it’s not the time to do that work.
00;22;40;25 – 00;23;08;03
Unknown
It’s just not. It’s not going to go anywhere. So I have gotten a couple people like that. But for the most part I get people where both parties really want things to work better than they are right now. And they just don’t know how to do that. And they’re coming from different places. Heterosexual couples have a really intense challenge in that they’re socialized by gender completely.
00;23;08;03 – 00;23;32;20
Unknown
Right. There’s talk about that. That’s so yeah that’s a really good point. Yeah. See more about that. Boys and girls are completely differently socialized by gender. That doesn’t mean we’re fundamentally different. But when we come out of the womb and they see how one part of our body is configured, they decide that we’re going to have all these traits.
00;23;32;22 – 00;23;55;12
Unknown
Society says you’re going to be like this. Yeah. And for boys, it’s you’re not allowed to have emotions besides anger and pride. You’re going to lock everything else down. Fucking shut that shit down right? Like you’re not allowed to actually be an emotional being anymore, and we’re going to train it out of you so you can be tough and manly.
00;23;55;14 – 00;24;19;16
Unknown
And the only way you’re going to get sort of nurturing and connection is through sex. And you are allowed that. You are allowed to be very sexual. In fact you’re expected to be hypersexual, you’re expected to be hard at the drop of a hat, and it’s going to validate the woman that you’re with. Right. You’re so there’s all these expectations for men and boys that are very distinct from the ones for women.
00;24;19;19 – 00;24;45;03
Unknown
Women are not allowed access to the emotions of anger and pride. But we’re allowed everything else. We’re allowed to have all the hard like sort of vulnerable feelings. But we’re not supposed to be angry, and we’re not supposed to feel good about ourselves. In, in a sort of prideful way, we can do it as long as it’s sort of good in the sort of visual way where we’re being validated for our appearance.
00;24;45;05 – 00;25;11;22
Unknown
And that’s where we’re supposed to find our worst. Yep. Right. And yeah we are not supposed to be sexual. So we are told from a very young age that it’s dangerous to be sexual and that it’s slutty and that that’s bad and that our sexuality is supposed to be for our partners. They’re going to want that.
00;25;11;25 – 00;25;38;02
Unknown
It’s not for us. And we’re also taught to take care of everybody else first, that their needs matter more than ours, that we’re supposed to be nice above all else, nice and pretty above all else. Right. No boundaries. No like needs for ourselves not putting ourselves first. Right. And so we are socialized so differently. So the language that we have and the way we comment issues of intimacy are radically different.
00;25;38;02 – 00;26;01;03
Unknown
And so a lot of times we just don’t understand each other. In heterosexual relationships men might want sex a lot. And we think it’s just because they want sex. But it’s really because that’s the way that they connect. So what they really deeply want is connection. And women might feel like, hey I actually need connection before we have sex.
00;26;01;06 – 00;26;22;07
Unknown
Like you can’t just come up to me be like, hey, let’s have some sex now, right? And and that’s just not, like, working. Like we need more affection and connection, and we want to feel heard and seen and and like, we want to feel like there’s an emotional connection and that’s really difficult. So these are stereotypes, right. But they’re stereotypes that we are trained in.
00;26;22;09 – 00;26;51;15
Unknown
Sure. Yeah. So absolutely it’s very common now. It’s very common to see also some differences there. There’s not everybody conforms to the stereotypes. Right at all. But there’s just some commonalities that in our genders socialization that make it so that heterosexuals having a in a couple have some like particular challenges around communication and around understanding each other’s needs that started when.
00;26;51;15 – 00;27;16;23
Unknown
So we do ever got together. Yeah. Oh wait. Way before. And sometimes we can kind of like you know, the first part of the relationship can kind of almost mask that because we have all this sort of like new relationship energy going on and we’re discovering and we’re kind of giving each other the benefit of the doubt. And then, you know, 20 years in, we’ve built all these resentments and they just escalated and escalated and we feel disconnected.
00;27;16;25 – 00;27;37;23
Unknown
And you don’t know how to communicate, and we don’t know how to, like, bridge the gaps anymore. So people come to me to like, clean out those resentments, figure out how to see each other again as like, yep, good innocent people who want to be in this relationship and who want to make it work and who want to support each other’s needs.
00;27;37;26 – 00;27;56;08
Unknown
Yeah. And then we figure out that’s. But that’s why we need practice and that’s why we need play, right? That’s why there needs to be touch involved and play. Because we do need to build connection, not just two people sitting on opposite sides of the couch, just like talking at a therapist, trying to figure out, you know, who is in the right.
00;27;56;11 – 00;28;20;15
Unknown
Right. There isn’t usually a right. Yeah. There’s usually just two people who need to figure out how to understand each other better. Yeah, unless you’re married to me. And then there’s always those. Right? So just just one right there. And just because we’re good at empathy does not mean we’re good at communication. Right? Like, well, you know what’s different about that?
00;28;20;17 – 00;28;41;02
Unknown
Just because we’re good at empathy doesn’t mean that we’re good at intimacy. Those two things feel separate to me. And so what keeps coming up for me when you’re talking about this? I think it’s fascinating and so on. Point is, intimacy for me is different than empathy and also has to do with trust, trust and intimacy for me specifically.
00;28;41;02 – 00;29;05;19
Unknown
And I’m sure I’m not the only person that feels like this, right is so interconnected. Oh, I agree, I have a very hard time with intimacy if I don’t also have trust, and trust is not as clear cut as just to make sure you don’t cheat on me, right? It’s not. It’s not need to trust that you’re telling me you’re communicating and it’s real and genuine and it’s not blowing me up so that I just get what I want.
00;29;05;19 – 00;29;25;28
Unknown
Yeah, no. All I need to trust that I can count on you. To follow through on things. I need to trust that you’re going to see that I’m having a hard day, and you’re going to step up and do some things. You know, it’s that it’s safety. Maybe it’s not trust, maybe it’s safety. I think it’s combination or all of those.
00;29;25;28 – 00;29;53;09
Unknown
Yeah yeah. Yeah. Right. So so the task is center together. Yeah. The the relationship between intimacy and that’s where I see coming into your office may be really interesting because I would imagine that people come in often thinking about the act of sex, but then maybe leave with a much deeper appreciation and understanding of what is at the base of sex, not the act of sex.
00;29;53;13 – 00;30;13;11
Unknown
Right. That’s that’s, I think, where the discomfort comes in. When you talk about role play and you talk about touching my mind immediately goes to this physical touch, you know, sex part sex, like, are you tweaking my nipples the right way? You know, like that. Yes. Yeah. I can make it in the blocks correctly. That’s great. That’s right.
00;30;13;11 – 00;30;29;06
Unknown
Right. I don’t think that’s what she’s talking about. For me, it was that. Yeah. Mark and I walking into the room and her being like, grab a package. And I’m like, okay, okay, I’m doing it right. Like that’s the what’s the visual that’s playing into my mind. Right? She’s like, I don’t know, I don’t think I don’t think that.
00;30;29;06 – 00;30;54;11
Unknown
I don’t think it’s not at all. It’s like it’s I’ll give you an example. My husband does this thing where we say, hey, I gotta go, guys. Hey, lovers, it’s Scott from inside the bubble to let you know that our even more love subscription service is in the beta testing phase right now. That means you can sign up to the subscription level of your choice and try it on for size for free, for a limited time.
00;30;54;15 – 00;31;23;26
Unknown
Let us know how you like it. What’s on there? More content, more Aaron and Rebecca out in public doing weird things, more guest content, and even more love. Check out our website the More Love podcast.com and find the links to even more. Love and subscribe today we will see you in our exclusive subscribers group. Even more love. You know, this is why I work with so many women, especially women in midlife.
00;31;23;26 – 00;31;53;13
Unknown
And later, because we’ve gotten to an age where we’ve started to cop to this stuff. When we started to realize that it’s it’s holding us back. We’re not trying to obligation sex anymore. Right? We’re trying to say, oh, could some of this be for me? And then we run into all this shit that’s in there that we didn’t even we never unpacked, which is like, oh my God, I have all this shame that’s in my way where I don’t feel entitled to say, hey, I actually am feeling pretty horny right now.
00;31;53;13 – 00;32;18;13
Unknown
Like, I would really like to have some sex and this is exactly how I want it. Right. And or what is there, what kind of messages did we get as a kid. What kind of like sexual repression have we had. What kind of experiences have told us it’s not okay. Or one of the things that really comes up is a lot of times girls are socialized to think if we initiate anything, we have to quote unquote finish it for the man.
00;32;18;16 – 00;32;36;25
Unknown
So as if like, maybe I would like to be a little bit sexual, but I don’t know how far I want to go. I don’t know if I want penis in my pussy, right. Like, yeah, I don’t know if that’s where I’m going. You’re fine with it. Whatever you Scott, you actually liked it. We can. I just took me by surprise itself.
00;32;36;28 – 00;33;02;03
Unknown
Sorry. We can drop that down, but we can’t say the word. Pussy is a normal human anatomy, and 51% assessment show. Yeah, well, now you can tell. Now we do talk about porn. To talk about the pussy to. So, you know, maybe we don’t know if that’s what we want, but maybe we might like to have some, like, naked snuggles and see where it goes.
00;33;02;03 – 00;33;32;11
Unknown
Right. But we’re taught from a very young age that somehow he. His orgasm is like the end goal and the most important thing. And that’s when everything is sort of over, quote unquote, supposedly that’s a horrible way to have sex, by the way. But yeah, if we think that we’re on the hook to go and but we don’t yet know if that’s what we want, then we don’t even want to initiate because it feels like we’re obligated.
00;33;32;14 – 00;33;56;06
Unknown
But you know what’s interesting? We’re not obligated. You can have a lovely like you can have a really hot makeout session. You can have all kinds of things between, you know, there’s all kinds of different things that you can do with a partner. And a lot of times it feels really great. And maybe we would like to actually wind up having some penis and vagina sex, but we don’t know, right?
00;33;56;06 – 00;34;18;14
Unknown
Because most of us are not getting enough foreplay. I mean, the average woman needs 30 to 45 minutes, and the average American time and foreplay is like 5 to 10. So we’re not really often getting the sex we want. And then we wonder why we don’t want it. And then we shame ourselves. We wonder what make a point because we’re told we’re not supposed to ask for it.
00;34;18;14 – 00;34;37;06
Unknown
So I mean, there’s all this stuff that just needs to get unpacked, and then we’re married. Women want what they want. Yeah. And for couples to really be able to communicate about what they’re doing, how they’re doing it, and how they’re going to have, you know, because you can have the best sex to your life over 40, like, for, for sure.
00;34;37;09 – 00;35;06;02
Unknown
But a lot of people aren’t, you know, I can’t honestly name for you, on one hand, the amount of women that I know in my inner circle that are like having a just I’m for caffeine, I can’t stop. I just love having sex so much. My husband’s so great. This is so honestly, I could not I could not name for you two people in my closest circle that are just so.
00;35;06;04 – 00;35;32;28
Unknown
And if they did, if they did, I’d be like, the hell’s going on over there? You know, and honestly, my first thought would be their husbands doing a good job, not sexually, their husbands doing a good job, emotional right, would be what I would be thinking to myself. Like what? What’s being emotionally fulfilled for that woman? That she has the space and ability to be able to be like, wow, I’m not exhausted at the end of the day, right?
00;35;33;00 – 00;35;52;06
Unknown
I’m not resentful. I’m not pissed that this has to become whatever, you know? And I think, Laura, something you said really resonated with me, this the sense of obligation. So when I was first thinking about that, I was thinking, oh, we could just stop, you know, at any time if I don’t want to do this anymore, I don’t want to do it right.
00;35;52;06 – 00;36;31;25
Unknown
I tell myself that mentally. But what was interesting about the obligation piece was when you said, well, maybe you just want to have a cuddle fest and that has come up for me previously, is there are times that I want to physically touch my husband in bed watching TV, because I just want to lay there on his chest and have him rub my arm and also watch TV, and then I fall asleep, but I don’t I don’t usually initiate that because I in my mind, I think he’s either so starved for some type of physical affection or he’s thinking to himself, wow, okay, okay, here’s where we’re starting this, and this is going to lead
00;36;31;25 – 00;37;07;22
Unknown
into something else that, that I don’t that that it has to turn into sex. Right in that. So I will avoid the physical touch of connecting by cuddling because maybe I might not be in that place. So that sense of obligation you were talking about made sense to me in those terms versus the, you know, if we’re in the middle of it or if things are getting hot and heavy and I’m like, I just don’t feel like doing this anymore, you know, but that I do wonder how many women also feel that way, that men really are maybe looking for this sense of physical touch.
00;37;07;22 – 00;37;31;09
Unknown
And women may be apprehensive of doing that because they’re like, oh boy, I don’t want to give the allure that this has to be something more right than just cuddling or touching. That’s just a communication issue. Right. That’s a communication issue. I’m like we need to have a conversation because what’s happening there is that unfortunately neither of you are getting stuff that you want.
00;37;31;11 – 00;38;05;13
Unknown
Right. Like right. It would probably be lovely for both of you to have that moment right. And because there’s not a lot of communication that hey sometimes this is what I’m going to want and we can just talk about, we can just have some words about or even if you’re not very verbal people, if you want to just have like ways that you escalate and inquire that are based on sort of looks or certain types of touches, you know, like it might be like, we do it, you know, or are we is is this good?
00;38;05;13 – 00;38;25;26
Unknown
Is this what you would like? You know, like, but we can practice having those conversations so that we can allow ourselves more touch and connection. Yeah. So what would your rec what would your recommendations be. So if Rebecca and I are in your office. Well actually before I ask that question. So that is when you’re ready to do it.
00;38;25;26 – 00;38;59;21
Unknown
And like I said I do what I ask is can you, can you talk a little bit about differences that you see in gay relationships. So to women, to men, you know, do you find that the problems are similar in terms of communication or because often they’re starting with a same socialized place too? Those conversations sound different. So there’s other stereotypes for gay and lesbian relationships, and they can’t play out, pretty commonly.
00;38;59;21 – 00;39;27;03
Unknown
But it’s again, it’s not universal, just like in the heterosexual dynamic where you’d have different social gender socialization. If you have two people who’ve been socialized as women together, what can often happen is they get stuck in like over emotional processing where there’s not a lot of physical contact because that would be, seriously shit. So my it’s like we need to stay.
00;39;27;03 – 00;39;46;28
Unknown
Yeah. No, it’s like you can have that in friendships too, right? Where you’re just like. So in it all the time emotionally to try to get to that safe place where you actually and, and because our society is so focused on sort of like the neck up like we, we walk through the world, like in our heads and not in our bodies.
00;39;46;28 – 00;40;14;04
Unknown
Very often we’re trained out of our bodies very early, you know, in school, sit still. You know, you have to like, lock locked down your body. You start to try to kind of cerebral ize yourself. Yeah. When we’re not really in our bodies, being in an embodied experience with each other, we can get kind of overly heady and start kind of emotional, like, like, like pulling apart the emotions like to the nth degree.
00;40;14;07 – 00;40;46;13
Unknown
And that is not helpful either. Right? We need to like, you know, oftentimes we need to connect to our body. I just I feel that that’s yeah. It’s so true. It’s also you know that it is even harder. Are in it really. And if you’re okay, you know, as long as you’ve had some conversation about how you do like touch and if you’re okay with touch between the two of you, sometimes even just like a hand on the shoulder, right, or something, to just be like when we share a bed, we got to put pillows down.
00;40;46;13 – 00;41;06;26
Unknown
The little don’t get near me, okay? So I’m talking about you, I cannot wait, I cannot wait till you might have together. And we might have some things to unpack with you. In touch if you’re okay. Yeah, we might, we might need. I need at least seven sessions just for myself. Just for your own self. And talk about touch.
00;41;06;26 – 00;41;28;27
Unknown
Yeah. Do you need me to come in? Yeah. With you. Scott. You ready to? Actually, I do do this of touch work with people. I’m like a massage table with, like, I’m not actually putting you like the blankets. You’re touching you. Oh, my God, I love you. Pillows. Pillows that can be comforting so that we can create kind of like a space where your bodies feel supported, but, like, I’m not touching you.
00;41;28;27 – 00;41;51;07
Unknown
And that’s really helpful for people who have some, to sleep around pregnancy pillow or some every single night. I, I’m in I’m in a cocoon in my pregnancy pillow in my bed. Yeah. So that makes time. I can see why. And we only have sex on film side of the bed.
00;41;51;09 – 00;42;13;15
Unknown
Don’t even come over here. Oh, no. That’s what my mom. I said, if you try, if you try to do anything on this pillow. We got to think back to my principle. Laura, that’s your full career where you have right here, I know. Right? You have, like, all these coping mechanisms that you’ve gotten that are great. Like that work for you, right?
00;42;13;17 – 00;42;32;03
Unknown
My bitch face is really I love that. Don’t touch me. Oh, yeah. Not touch me. I can not wait till we’re in the same bed together. I swear to God. I’m going to wait till you’re almost to sleep. And then I’m. I go like this here. I will punch you in the face. Oh my God, oh my God.
00;42;32;06 – 00;42;49;27
Unknown
You’re activating to. I’m good with boundaries. I want to make sure. Let’s see, what was your eye. Now let’s go back to your question because I’m talking like so. So the question was in gay and lesbian relationships. And you mentioned that sometimes there’s all women can that they don’t kind of get into the over process. Yes, yes, yes.
00;42;50;02 – 00;43;10;00
Unknown
And can kind of sometimes get out of the physicality. And that can be a real source of disconnection. But they, they then they start trying to talk about it and not actually do stuff about it. And so, one of the things I do with working with queer women is help them get like practice getting more into their body and and touching and reconnecting through touch.
00;43;10;02 – 00;43;33;20
Unknown
Interesting. With men, oftentimes it’s kind of the opposite, where sometimes like they’ll instead of like, like emotionally resolving conflict, they’ll just have sex, which can be great and reach, some extent. It’s our whole friend group. And there are some women who like that too. So there can be heterosexual relationships where that works too. But it’s it’s kind of a minority.
00;43;33;23 – 00;43;50;19
Unknown
And I just want to bang, bang more often for gay men. Yeah. We’re just going to bang it out. Right? And they do. And that can be great. Do that. Not with me. Not with me. I’m sorry. Come not with me either. New. Did you say not with you either. No, we’re not banging anything out. Yeah, not with me.
00;43;50;21 – 00;44;08;00
Unknown
It doesn’t work for me either. I’m sorry. Did we talk about it for half an hour? I’m sorry. I mean, two hours before this happened and my partner might be able to bang it out. Yeah, maybe tomorrow when I finally come down from my highly sensitive. Hi about what you did and why you’re wrong. All right. He’s gonna say.
00;44;08;00 – 00;44;20;23
Unknown
And he has to tell you you’re right. And you need to tell me I’m right and why you’re wrong and what you’re never going to do again. And then repeat back to me what I told you in your own words. Don’t parrot it back to me, and then maybe you’ll have a chance of having sex. And 48 hours.
00;44;20;25 – 00;44;43;21
Unknown
So we got some work to do with you. And right there. I mean, how did you relationship prepare? Well, so that you’re not both resentful? Yeah. So we do that. I teach people that to. But we, you know, for gay men, a lot of times there’s, there’s a lack of sometimes people feel a lack of emotional intimacy, and they really want to have more emotional intimacy, but it feels like they’re disposed to have sex all the time.
00;44;43;21 – 00;45;06;14
Unknown
And so that can be kind of a challenge. But that’s again, not true in every in every relationship. But just like stereotypical, like gender socialization, it’s not just like the stereotypes. It’s actually like we’re trained to be stereotypes is the problem, you know, from a young age. And so we all have those expectations of ourselves and like the calls coming from in the house.
00;45;06;14 – 00;45;26;05
Unknown
Right? It’s like, yeah, there’s this voice in our head that’s telling us we should be this way, even though that’s not true. Right. It’s like the old school party line with a with a 4 to 5 minutes that we have last. Because I want to make sure that I get you to your appointment. Laura, what would you say is your biggest piece of advice?
00;45;26;05 – 00;45;43;21
Unknown
If you could leave our listeners with a piece of advice or a recommendation of what they could do, even on their own, to get started with this before they all book with you? Because I have a feeling that, we’re gonna have a lot of people running your the head of this show. You all better wait in line because I’m first.
00;45;43;24 – 00;46;03;18
Unknown
You know, what would be your biggest piece of advice? So what would you say to our listeners? Yeah, I love that question, because I think there’s a lot you can do on your own. And one of the biggest pieces of advice that, I it comes from my own learning because I’ve had all the problems, which is why I know for sure.
00;46;03;19 – 00;46;38;06
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That makes you a good coach, right? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Is really honor. What your body is telling you. And that doesn’t mean believe all your feelings, right? That doesn’t mean, like, if I am angry, I’m somehow justified in feeling angry. But. But let your body actually tell you the truth of a situation. You know, our emotions are like signposts to kind of tell us what’s going on and anger is just a is a signpost that says, I’m perceiving some sort of injustice here.
00;46;38;11 – 00;47;01;25
Unknown
Right. But listening instead of kind of trying to think our way out of things or tell ourselves the words, if there’s any a should in your head, just erase it because it is not helping you. Right. Getting out of that heading is and actually starting to allow your body to give you that truth of your own experience is really game changing.
00;47;01;25 – 00;47;28;17
Unknown
So if you are feeling uncomfortable or you’re feeling the heebie jeebies with your partner’s touch like it’s okay, you are allowed to have preferences, you’re allowed to say, oh, that is not my preferred touch. This is right. Like I don’t like my God, I do not like like the tongue in my ear. That is the one that gives me like the whole body heebie jeebies and makes me want to like, punch people for doing away with tongue in my ear.
00;47;28;20 – 00;47;45;16
Unknown
So I tell people that right in the beginning, like, no, think that was in your. Well, I don’t think it was the the nibbling of the earlobe. This is how long ago happened. I think it was tongue in the ear. And you just triggered that for me. And it was it’s the wetness and it feels like you’re there and it plugs and then it doesn’t.
00;47;45;19 – 00;48;14;26
Unknown
I can spit the spill out just yet. So it’s not good. It’s just not not you’re not getting it. So many people love it. Like their past partner probably loved it. Right. And so then oh my God, my ears right now. Oh yeah. You are allowed me. That’s the process. It’s what I would say. I think that is like feel into your body what is true for you and like see if you can agree like allow your body to have a say as much as your mind does.
00;48;14;27 – 00;48;31;16
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. And, just notice that it’s okay for you to have preferences. It’s okay for you to speak about what you want. It’s okay for you to speak about what you like, you know, and it’s okay for you to speak about what you don’t like. Yeah. I love and it’s okay for other people to do the same.
00;48;31;19 – 00;48;53;00
Unknown
Right. It’s okay for them to have preferences too. And so allowing that in to have those conversations, not when you’re having sex but when I look at another time I have a whole episode actually in my podcast about like when to talk about stuff and when not talk about someone who listens. Yeah, that’s right. Right. Speaker one you know, it’s like having sex, like, stop it, stop touching me and give me the heebie jeebies.
00;48;53;03 – 00;49;18;21
Unknown
He’s like, wow, I still feel really in the mood right now. That’s what I mean. Because, yeah, right. Exactly, exactly. I this is really great. I really loved this session. I love the conversations about intimacy and vulnerability and yeah, that that too. She probably talks about that too. So yeah. So Doctor Laura, if anyone would like to get a hold of you, what is the best way for them to do that?
00;49;18;23 – 00;49;41;27
Unknown
They could go to my website, which is just my name. So Laura jergens.com and the Jergens is with a u r g e is not an e are not the heir to the hand lotion empire. So they’re freaking hilarious. I know. I was I do this work, to be honest, but I would have a oh like, you know, hand lotion empire.
00;49;42;04 – 00;50;06;20
Unknown
That’s going to be the picture. That was the top three things you’ve ever said that were hilarious. All I am is this picture of Laura with this Jergens bottle, a box of tissues in a Jergens bottle behind her. That’s shit’s layer. Yeah. Haha. Wow, that was so witty. Like, that was really quick. Yeah. You know what makes me want to have sex with you?
00;50;06;23 – 00;50;30;19
Unknown
It’s like, I love when you’re witty like that. You sex kitten stays. I love it. Doctor Laura Jergens, sex relationship and embodiment coach. Also host of sex Hope for Smart People podcast. Definitely connect with her. Find her, engage with her. Get that sex life back on track. Learn about yourself. Your intimacy. Holy cow, I almost dropped that.
00;50;30;21 – 00;50;45;27
Unknown
I got real excited. I think your intimacy was like witty comment. Yeah, nice. Some witty comments. It was such a pleasure to have you on the show, Laura. Thanks for being with us today and I have for sure believe that you’ll be hearing from Rebecca.
00;50;46;00 – 00;51;12;00
Unknown
Thank you for being here today. Thank you. I loved that. Me too. Isn’t empathy amazing? Well, we’re amazing. I don’t know about all this empathy stuff. That’s fine. I accept you wherever you are. Oh, God, I love you. I love you, too. And if you love us, please like and subscribe to More Love the Power of Empathy podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
00;51;12;08 – 00;51;24;12
Unknown
See you next time.
Unknown
Hey, it’s me Erin Thanks for joining us on the Moor Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside. But the truth is, she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Here she comes. Hey, bestie. Hi, love. What are you doing?
00;00;34;10 – 00;01;00;18
Unknown
Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast about what? Our life. Our life as best friends who are more like sisters. Oh, yay, I love this, and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world, especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right to be our most authentic selves. Oh, man. Okay. You know, this is what happens after we don’t talk to each other for like, eight days.
00;01;00;22 – 00;01;18;04
Unknown
Now we got to have a massive, I don’t think interactions session. And you’re like, I can’t talk to you about this right now. And so what do I hear? We’re talking about it. No, no, no. You just ask me. I’m like, I’m not. We’re not talking about it because you are gonna wait. No, no wait wait wait. You said so.
00;01;18;04 – 00;01;34;18
Unknown
I was crying on Mother’s Day. I said why? And you said, well, we’re not. I can’t talk about it right now. So again, I hear. Yeah, we’re off and talking about it. So we’re absolutely talking about it. And I say, no, we can’t because I don’t have all the information. And you’re going to have 27 questions that I can’t answer.
00;01;34;20 – 00;02;00;24
Unknown
Right. And I know you well enough. I’m not perfect that. So then you very kindly continue the conversation. Yeah. And don’t ask questions. But I know deep down you need to know. And then I can’t keep my mouth shut. No, wait. My favorite part is you said so. You’re right. I didn’t ask any questions, but I was like, okay, well, you do know that I’m the person that you can come to for y z advice and you’re like, yeah, I know, and it just has to you.
00;02;00;24 – 00;02;16;01
Unknown
And then before, you know, boom, we’re right into it. You’re like, well, I guess we’re talking about it. I said, I guess we are has the masterful power of a therapist right there. But then I said, I had this idea. Keep your questions in your head until you know what they are. But then how did you feel three seconds into the conversation?
00;02;16;01 – 00;02;31;03
Unknown
Because I was already alone saying that I know and pissed off. I know, I know, and if you want to hype girl, you call her. That’s right, that’s right. And especially if you let me know what you’re looking for in advance. I did not get out of the park. I said, this is one of those situations that I don’t give a shit.
00;02;31;03 – 00;02;45;06
Unknown
You just tell me that I’m amazing. How many things did I do? Good. Yeah. At the escape. Escape room? Yeah. We’re not talking about all this time now. Screwed it up. No, but what did I do now? And I want at least 20 of them. Yeah, because I’m going to be here for 20 minutes while you talk about it.
00;02;45;07 – 00;02;59;26
Unknown
Keep going till I tell you to stop. What do I do? That’s exactly what I do. And am I thankful that you said that? Yeah. You gave me directions and I’m going to follow them. Yeah. Great. Great. Listen, before we have a guest today, I’m really excited about our guest. But before we get into that, I have to tell you this craziest story that happened to me.
00;02;59;27 – 00;03;21;08
Unknown
Okay? I am driving down the road. I’m talking to Rene on my phone. Car, my car phone. Right. That’s it. And then, as you say, the band. The band. Right. Because this apparently. And my car, it goes boom, boom, boom, boom boom. Every time someone. No, I can’t hear. But the person on the other end can hear it loud and clear and it’s very distorted.
00;03;21;08 – 00;03;47;06
Unknown
Exactly. So I’m driving down the street. I am almost to where you turn into my housing, complex. Yeah. There is a white vehicle coming this way. So coming toward me, and I’m headed east. Okay, you try this. You don’t know. At least see, whatever it was 100% east, maybe northeast, I don’t know, but anyway, I’m driving. I am talking to Rene.
00;03;47;06 – 00;04;12;05
Unknown
I don’t know, talking about garage sales. Who the hell knows what we’re talking about? This cat bolts across the street. Ends up under the white car. The car hits stop cats. Why are you with me? I said I’m going to resolve it for you. Hang on the car hits the cat. I’m going to show you what that cat looks like.
00;04;12;07 – 00;04;30;19
Unknown
One arm up here, one leg over here. This is like, like that. It ran over it. It hit the cat. I am on the car. I am on the phone with Rene. I’m like, oh my God. Oh, just hit the cat. It just hit this cat. Oh my God, oh my God. I don’t want to do what I want to do.
00;04;30;19 – 00;04;48;18
Unknown
So I slow down in this car keeps going like I’m like, you didn’t see anything. You mother happened. You just keep going. So now it’s full empathy mode. I’m like, I got to stop. I got to go help the cat. I got to know. But then all these, these feelings start to come up for me. I’m like, if I stop to get this cat and the cat’s not in a good place, I.
00;04;48;19 – 00;05;03;12
Unknown
What am I going to do? Snap. It’s not like I’m not like, oh my God, figure out what I have to do for this cat. What if it makes a noise? It’s not going to be okay, right? So then I start to slow down. I don’t know if it’s dead, I don’t know, but I’m telling you. One arm up here, one leg over here.
00;05;03;18 – 00;05;25;16
Unknown
This thing, I saw it get hit like, oh, sorry. Yeah, it’s not funny. And it’s, it’s not because it’s this cat. You know how much I love cats. I know I’m losing my mind with with Rene. I’m like, oh, my God, I just saw get here. I don’t know what to do. So I start to slow down this car again, going right again, going west up the street doesn’t have a care in the world.
00;05;25;16 – 00;05;41;02
Unknown
So then I say, well, I don’t want this. I don’t want me slowing down to make this house think that I’m the one that hit the cat. Oh, right. So I’ve gone from empathy to fear that I’m going to be associated. I look in my side mirror, stop it. It gets up and walk away. Shut up. Listen to me.
00;05;41;04 – 00;06;02;13
Unknown
Think it’s like this? It’s like this. It goes boom. And then it goes, oh, crazy, oh crazy, oh, I’m crazy. And then it bolts across the street I again, here I am on the on the car phone with Rene. I’m like Rene got up. Oh my. Got it, got it. It’s alive, it’s alive. Oh my God I, I can that just happen.
00;06;02;15 – 00;06;26;13
Unknown
This thing got hit I saw it get hit. It had. Thank you Scott for this is really perfect timing with the Jesus music coming in this thing got totally hit. And then it did like a tuna confused itself, ran across the street. What’s the one thing Rene says? Why now I only do have nine lives in lock step, I lost it.
00;06;26;13 – 00;06;50;28
Unknown
That wasn’t the best response because I’m not kidding. That’s life number six right there. That was gone. Boom. Done. Hands up. Got up. Reengaged. So I went home. I couldn’t stop talking about. No, I couldn’t stop talking about it. I could not believe I’ve seen anything like that in my life. I’m guessing right up. You only got three left, buddy, so use it wisely.
00;06;51;01 – 00;07;11;11
Unknown
There wasn’t much free to see both cars coming. Why don’t you go back home? Dumb shit. Yeah. Go house cats. Yeah, I know right? Maybe stay inside, get your flea collar on to stay fucking inside I cannot. So that happened. I had to tell you that was absolutely nuts. You got some cards for us today? Yeah. Before we head into our guest, that.
00;07;11;11 – 00;07;27;14
Unknown
I’m really excited how we can get back a good show today. I know, I actually did a three, a threesome, a three, and I’m not going to read the three way. It’s for me personally, the title card is what we’re going to talk about. Okay. Okay. After we had the Ten of Swords. Definitely swords. Yeah. We have swords all the time now.
00;07;27;17 – 00;07;55;00
Unknown
I thought we had Pentacles all the time. Okay. No. Not me. No, no. All right. The meaning is endings. The ten as the final credit card of the swords is summing up an ending, usually involving some degree of drama. This can come as a shock or as a relief. Stop it. As you stop as you see the situation or a relationship for what it is or what it was, stop.
00;07;55;03 – 00;08;18;11
Unknown
It cannot develop or ever grow. Oh stop. Snap your middle finger. I guess, however unwanted this card may be when it arrives in its reading, it does tell the truth and helps you to see what needs to be really stop. So she later stop. I am dying out. So here’s the advice. Walk away and let go. Focus on the present and don’t dwell on the past.
00;08;18;12 – 00;08;39;10
Unknown
Oh, I’m done, oh, I’m all done. I’ll give you a book. Oh, really? I want to show you. So I’m going to show you the three. Yeah. The three something. Yeah. Oh, stop. Yeah. I mean, was that right? My nature is order. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No. It’s okay. Stop living in chaos. You know why? Because you can get on the Ritalin.
00;08;39;13 – 00;08;54;16
Unknown
Get on the Ritalin? That’s that. That’s at all. I mean, it could be night. Night came right there. It’s a secret to all of our sex. I just want the sex back. Yeah, right. Yeah. In the mirror. Looks like your boobs. Now, you know, by the way, those brows you gave me not okay. Oh, it wasn’t your boobs.
00;08;54;16 – 00;09;13;11
Unknown
They’re just terrible bras. Oh, I had two more. Yeah, I left them at home. Okay. Yeah. I’m not. That’s not great. Throw them away. Speaking of, three card pull today. That’s the little threesome pull. Yeah, that might not be at all what we’re talking about today. It’s the perfect. And for me to introduce our guest tonight. So, guys, we have a guest.
00;09;13;17 – 00;09;37;26
Unknown
We have a guest. And I got to tell you, we’ve come a long way from our first guest. I know we’re really nailing it with the guests I know so far. And I don’t think that Laura here is going to disappoint. So I’d love to introduce all of you to Doctor Laura Jergens, who is a sex relationship and embodiment coach sex relationship embodiment three things that make you highly uncomfortable that we are going to be talking about today.
00;09;37;26 – 00;09;57;09
Unknown
Great, I love it. She is also the host of Sex Help for Smart People podcast and she’s going to tell us by the end how you can reach out to her, connect with her, speak with her. She does have a client that she’s got to meet with here in a little bit. So, we will make sure that we have her on time for that appointment.
00;09;57;09 – 00;10;23;15
Unknown
But it is so nice to meet you, Laura. We’re so happy to have you here and speaking with you today. And super excited to jump into these topics. It’s great to be here. I’m still reeling from the cat story, so. It’s not okay, right? It is not okay. We about the cat because you know, now I think he’s my sponsor.
00;10;23;15 – 00;10;44;01
Unknown
He got up and like he might not be fine. You know what he got? Found something, I think. And I’m still thinking about this cat. I know I need to get my target in order. We should have one. No, sorry. That is an empathy problem. But but it it frolicked like it was the happiest thing it’s ever been in this entire life.
00;10;44;01 – 00;11;02;28
Unknown
Which is how I knew it had joined a seventh life. That sex was done and we were on the seventh. So I think they think it should be okay. And yeah, sorry about that. Sometimes we start with some zingers, so yeah, no warning. So Laura, you have to start by telling us a little bit about what you do.
00;11;02;28 – 00;11;36;11
Unknown
What is a sex relationship and embodiment coach. Right. What is that even? So. So I work with individuals and couples who have some sexual repression, which is basically everybody in our society. Or our or some just are like really feeling kind of disconnected from their own sexuality or their bodies and their kind of capacity to be in connection with their partner.
00;11;36;13 – 00;12;02;03
Unknown
So the way that I’m different from a therapist, so we involve a lot of practice, role play and some like clothes on type of touch in my practice because a lot of people actually come out don’t I’m out. Yeah you can be out. But a lot of people you know it sounds scary maybe. But the thing is, if we don’t know what we like.
00;12;02;06 – 00;12;27;13
Unknown
True and we don’t know how to ask for it. And so like and also a lot of times couples don’t really love the way they touch each other. They just don’t want to tell the other person, so we, you know, play with that. And I teach people how to experiment and see what they might like, how to give feedback, right, how to actually have conversations where they’re being heard.
00;12;27;13 – 00;12;48;26
Unknown
And there’s some empathy and there’s some vulnerability. How to do all that stuff in a relationship. We actually practice that, so that you don’t feel like it’s the, you know, you sit there in therapy and you just talk about stuff, and then 30 years later, you’ve never implemented anything compliant, which is really common. I love this so much, Laura.
00;12;48;26 – 00;13;06;22
Unknown
Why am I so uncomfortable right now? Because I know that I’m, So, so I know you mentioned in your, message to us that you listen to the podcast and you enjoy the podcast, so we very much appreciate that. So you probably know at this point that Rebecca is the shut off one. Rebecca, someone who’s like, oh, I’m out.
00;13;06;22 – 00;13;21;14
Unknown
I’m not talking about this. I don’t want to talk about touch. I don’t want to role play. It’s a way too vulnerable for me. Right. But I’m someone that you would think in this conversation then that would be more like, oh, that’s really interesting. And tell me more about that. And, you know, I’m more of the therapist type of role.
00;13;21;17 – 00;13;47;17
Unknown
When you said the word role play and touching with clothes on, I wanted to jump out of my seat. And so I know that that is not atypical to the people who are going to be coming into your office. So talk to me about why am I feeling like that? What what is that about? Yeah, well, it could be a little bit of just training, right?
00;13;47;17 – 00;14;13;21
Unknown
We’re so taught that it’s really taboo to touch other people. Right? Even with. And many of us don’t know how to do it with consent and with like a pacing that feels good to our nervous system. So it can be kind of scary to think about that, especially if we’re taught, you know, okay, we don’t. We have these like, intense boundaries, but that’s really our first language, right?
00;14;13;25 – 00;14;48;16
Unknown
We touch we as baby is this is this is how we learn about our environment. We we are touched by people around us. We were touched by our our extended family. Right? We’re often touched like we’re often held by strangers. And at what point do we as animals, decide that we are going to foreclose on that language and we’re only going to reserve it for, you know, our society has gotten to this point where it can feel scary to think about, just touch.
00;14;48;16 – 00;15;14;13
Unknown
But I just want to offer, like if you think about if you go inside and figure out, okay, so I’m activated right now, right? You know, you’re activated right now. That feeling wanting to jump out the window, you felt like you guys touched you. Yeah. Where is it? Like what? Where is that feeling in your body. I feel it in between my heart and my stomach.
00;15;14;16 – 00;15;57;10
Unknown
It’s on your boobs. Yeah. There’s in your heart. Yeah. See. Solar plexus. Yep. It is definitely heart to stomach verging on gut response. Okay. So what does it actually feel like in there. Crampy. It feels uncomfortable. It feels like gurgles like. Yeah. Nauseous tight. It feels, it feels like like coiling in like icky like a like not like a gross but like a it’s a protection feel as best can describe it.
00;15;57;10 – 00;16;17;06
Unknown
It’s like a. Yeah. It’s like a coiling in like a turtle would do or someone would be in the corner, you know, like this. Yeah. It’s almost like, that’s terrible. And I would not like to talk about that. It’s like that type of feeling. Yeah. Well that makes a lot of sense. Right. We protect in the front of our body.
00;16;17;09 – 00;16;46;16
Unknown
This is where we need to protect. This is our soft right. So like the front of our body is about protection. And there’s something about that that feels really scary. Yeah. And I don’t know I just can’t tell by her. Yeah. Yeah. Is it maybe. Like what? Let’s just ask that feeling. Can you, like, kind of go into that feeling and just breathe into it a little bit and see if you can just say, what are you what are you here to tell me?
00;16;46;18 – 00;17;09;06
Unknown
It’s a you know, what’s coming up for me is a, it’s a protection, taboo. There’s things that you talk about and things you don’t talk about in things you talk about in front of people and things you don’t talk about in front of people. And then that triggers this part of me and I. The only word that’s coming up for me is perfectionism.
00;17;09;06 – 00;17;42;10
Unknown
I don’t know if that’s the exact word that needs to come up. Yeah, that’s coming up for me. Is this, like, you you have to be very clear what you’re talking about, how Rebecca is feeling in this situation, how you’re talking to Laura, what the listeners are thinking about, what their perceptions are. So it’s the pulling in of all of that stimuli into one place about a topic that is out of my wheelhouse.
00;17;42;12 – 00;18;07;04
Unknown
Not not that sex is out of my wheelhouse. Right. But like the talk of the vulnerability and empathy of sex is something that is brand new for me. So it’s all of that coming together into one place, where we’re going to have all these conversations about this, but it’s oh so new and there’s so many people and feelings and perspectives that have to be brought in and thought about as we talk about this.
00;18;07;06 – 00;18;29;04
Unknown
It’s really interesting because I originally went to college to be a health teacher. I just wanted to teach sex education and all of that. So the sex talk is not, oh, really? The vulnerability and the emotional component. Was it when she said role play? It wasn’t the role play, it was the physical touch. I don’t I don’t even like to hug people.
00;18;29;07 – 00;18;52;06
Unknown
Yeah. At all. Like that’s not happening. Yeah. It must feel I have to. Yeah. It’s not a thing I like to do. It makes me very uncomfortable. So. So what does this what does this all mean, Laura? Like what? I mean, other than. Yeah, that we’re, well, untouchable. One thing it one thing is that you never have to do.
00;18;52;09 – 00;19;22;28
Unknown
You never have to do anything that you don’t want to. It’s an invitation. Right? So, like, you don’t have to touch anybody. You don’t have to hug anybody. You never have to hug anybody again. You never have to fuck anybody again. You never have to kiss anybody again. You don’t have to do any of that stuff. And if it feels uncomfortable, you know, it might be interesting to kind of lean into inquiring at some point, if you want to, why you’re not right, right, right.
00;19;23;03 – 00;19;41;22
Unknown
There’s nothing wrong with you either way. And I also want to say that like, you don’t have to do anything perfectly here, you know, for anybody. So it did sound like that was maybe coming up a little bit Aaron for you, like, oh, I have to somehow do this perfectly or be comfortable with everything or somehow manage everybody.
00;19;41;22 – 00;20;04;14
Unknown
Right. And yeah, that’s a lot of pressure. Oh, yeah. None of us. There’s my life there. You don’t have to care. Yeah, you don’t have to care. Take us in this moment and this is what we are doing right now is actually what you do in session. Exactly what I write like this is such an we’re figuring out, okay, what’s happening for you?
00;20;04;16 – 00;20;31;21
Unknown
What’s going on physically in your body. What are the messages it has to say? And how do we like really gently stay with that and honor it and allow it and see if that care that care is basically intimacy, right. Like we just created a little bit between us by you offering something vulnerable, which is I feel uncomfortable.
00;20;31;23 – 00;20;59;11
Unknown
Yeah. And then you, me just kind of being here with you I don’t. Yeah. I don’t have to take it away. I just like here with you seeing it like. Yeah. You feel comfortable which is normal and human and of course. Yeah. Anything new makes us uncomfortable. Yeah. You know what’s really interesting. It works. It’s right I know, I know some different degrees of uncomfortable because you’re going to talk to me about something.
00;20;59;11 – 00;21;19;16
Unknown
Psychology related I’ve not talked about before. I hang with that all day. Right. But what’s really interesting to me is I’m imagining myself coming in with my husband and sitting down and talking with you, and and that just that imagery of me doing that makes me even more uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so I’m going to ask a very stereotypical question.
00;21;19;19 – 00;21;49;13
Unknown
So the men who come to see you in heterosexual relationships, the men who come to see you with their partners, I’m imagining it’s not like couples therapy, where often times they can be more dragged in. Right? Like, oh, well, my wife wants me to be here, and we’re going to talk about this, right? I would imagine sex therapy, intimacy therapy, embodiment therapy.
00;21;49;13 – 00;22;15;09
Unknown
You know, that that coaching, if you will, is not something that men stereotypically are going to enter into unless they’re prepared to be having those types of conversations. Is that is that a true statement in your experience? Well, they’ve certainly been dragged into consults sometimes, but I don’t take them as clients if they’re dragged in by. Because both people need to be on board you know.
00;22;15;09 – 00;22;40;25
Unknown
And I’m certainly happy to have a consult with somebody who is skeptical. I mean of course you should be skeptical when I support that 1,000%. But you know, if, if you just deeply don’t want to do the work with your partner or if you deeply resent, or having to even think about working on your relationship, then it’s not the time to do that work.
00;22;40;25 – 00;23;08;03
Unknown
It’s just not. It’s not going to go anywhere. So I have gotten a couple people like that. But for the most part I get people where both parties really want things to work better than they are right now. And they just don’t know how to do that. And they’re coming from different places. Heterosexual couples have a really intense challenge in that they’re socialized by gender completely.
00;23;08;03 – 00;23;32;20
Unknown
Right. There’s talk about that. That’s so yeah that’s a really good point. Yeah. See more about that. Boys and girls are completely differently socialized by gender. That doesn’t mean we’re fundamentally different. But when we come out of the womb and they see how one part of our body is configured, they decide that we’re going to have all these traits.
00;23;32;22 – 00;23;55;12
Unknown
Society says you’re going to be like this. Yeah. And for boys, it’s you’re not allowed to have emotions besides anger and pride. You’re going to lock everything else down. Fucking shut that shit down right? Like you’re not allowed to actually be an emotional being anymore, and we’re going to train it out of you so you can be tough and manly.
00;23;55;14 – 00;24;19;16
Unknown
And the only way you’re going to get sort of nurturing and connection is through sex. And you are allowed that. You are allowed to be very sexual. In fact you’re expected to be hypersexual, you’re expected to be hard at the drop of a hat, and it’s going to validate the woman that you’re with. Right. You’re so there’s all these expectations for men and boys that are very distinct from the ones for women.
00;24;19;19 – 00;24;45;03
Unknown
Women are not allowed access to the emotions of anger and pride. But we’re allowed everything else. We’re allowed to have all the hard like sort of vulnerable feelings. But we’re not supposed to be angry, and we’re not supposed to feel good about ourselves. In, in a sort of prideful way, we can do it as long as it’s sort of good in the sort of visual way where we’re being validated for our appearance.
00;24;45;05 – 00;25;11;22
Unknown
And that’s where we’re supposed to find our worst. Yep. Right. And yeah we are not supposed to be sexual. So we are told from a very young age that it’s dangerous to be sexual and that it’s slutty and that that’s bad and that our sexuality is supposed to be for our partners. They’re going to want that.
00;25;11;25 – 00;25;38;02
Unknown
It’s not for us. And we’re also taught to take care of everybody else first, that their needs matter more than ours, that we’re supposed to be nice above all else, nice and pretty above all else. Right. No boundaries. No like needs for ourselves not putting ourselves first. Right. And so we are socialized so differently. So the language that we have and the way we comment issues of intimacy are radically different.
00;25;38;02 – 00;26;01;03
Unknown
And so a lot of times we just don’t understand each other. In heterosexual relationships men might want sex a lot. And we think it’s just because they want sex. But it’s really because that’s the way that they connect. So what they really deeply want is connection. And women might feel like, hey I actually need connection before we have sex.
00;26;01;06 – 00;26;22;07
Unknown
Like you can’t just come up to me be like, hey, let’s have some sex now, right? And and that’s just not, like, working. Like we need more affection and connection, and we want to feel heard and seen and and like, we want to feel like there’s an emotional connection and that’s really difficult. So these are stereotypes, right. But they’re stereotypes that we are trained in.
00;26;22;09 – 00;26;51;15
Unknown
Sure. Yeah. So absolutely it’s very common now. It’s very common to see also some differences there. There’s not everybody conforms to the stereotypes. Right at all. But there’s just some commonalities that in our genders socialization that make it so that heterosexuals having a in a couple have some like particular challenges around communication and around understanding each other’s needs that started when.
00;26;51;15 – 00;27;16;23
Unknown
So we do ever got together. Yeah. Oh wait. Way before. And sometimes we can kind of like you know, the first part of the relationship can kind of almost mask that because we have all this sort of like new relationship energy going on and we’re discovering and we’re kind of giving each other the benefit of the doubt. And then, you know, 20 years in, we’ve built all these resentments and they just escalated and escalated and we feel disconnected.
00;27;16;25 – 00;27;37;23
Unknown
And you don’t know how to communicate, and we don’t know how to, like, bridge the gaps anymore. So people come to me to like, clean out those resentments, figure out how to see each other again as like, yep, good innocent people who want to be in this relationship and who want to make it work and who want to support each other’s needs.
00;27;37;26 – 00;27;56;08
Unknown
Yeah. And then we figure out that’s. But that’s why we need practice and that’s why we need play, right? That’s why there needs to be touch involved and play. Because we do need to build connection, not just two people sitting on opposite sides of the couch, just like talking at a therapist, trying to figure out, you know, who is in the right.
00;27;56;11 – 00;28;20;15
Unknown
Right. There isn’t usually a right. Yeah. There’s usually just two people who need to figure out how to understand each other better. Yeah, unless you’re married to me. And then there’s always those. Right? So just just one right there. And just because we’re good at empathy does not mean we’re good at communication. Right? Like, well, you know what’s different about that?
00;28;20;17 – 00;28;41;02
Unknown
Just because we’re good at empathy doesn’t mean that we’re good at intimacy. Those two things feel separate to me. And so what keeps coming up for me when you’re talking about this? I think it’s fascinating and so on. Point is, intimacy for me is different than empathy and also has to do with trust, trust and intimacy for me specifically.
00;28;41;02 – 00;29;05;19
Unknown
And I’m sure I’m not the only person that feels like this, right is so interconnected. Oh, I agree, I have a very hard time with intimacy if I don’t also have trust, and trust is not as clear cut as just to make sure you don’t cheat on me, right? It’s not. It’s not need to trust that you’re telling me you’re communicating and it’s real and genuine and it’s not blowing me up so that I just get what I want.
00;29;05;19 – 00;29;25;28
Unknown
Yeah, no. All I need to trust that I can count on you. To follow through on things. I need to trust that you’re going to see that I’m having a hard day, and you’re going to step up and do some things. You know, it’s that it’s safety. Maybe it’s not trust, maybe it’s safety. I think it’s combination or all of those.
00;29;25;28 – 00;29;53;09
Unknown
Yeah yeah. Yeah. Right. So so the task is center together. Yeah. The the relationship between intimacy and that’s where I see coming into your office may be really interesting because I would imagine that people come in often thinking about the act of sex, but then maybe leave with a much deeper appreciation and understanding of what is at the base of sex, not the act of sex.
00;29;53;13 – 00;30;13;11
Unknown
Right. That’s that’s, I think, where the discomfort comes in. When you talk about role play and you talk about touching my mind immediately goes to this physical touch, you know, sex part sex, like, are you tweaking my nipples the right way? You know, like that. Yes. Yeah. I can make it in the blocks correctly. That’s great. That’s right.
00;30;13;11 – 00;30;29;06
Unknown
Right. I don’t think that’s what she’s talking about. For me, it was that. Yeah. Mark and I walking into the room and her being like, grab a package. And I’m like, okay, okay, I’m doing it right. Like that’s the what’s the visual that’s playing into my mind. Right? She’s like, I don’t know, I don’t think I don’t think that.
00;30;29;06 – 00;30;54;11
Unknown
I don’t think it’s not at all. It’s like it’s I’ll give you an example. My husband does this thing where we say, hey, I gotta go, guys. Hey, lovers, it’s Scott from inside the bubble to let you know that our even more love subscription service is in the beta testing phase right now. That means you can sign up to the subscription level of your choice and try it on for size for free, for a limited time.
00;30;54;15 – 00;31;23;26
Unknown
Let us know how you like it. What’s on there? More content, more Aaron and Rebecca out in public doing weird things, more guest content, and even more love. Check out our website the More Love podcast.com and find the links to even more. Love and subscribe today we will see you in our exclusive subscribers group. Even more love. You know, this is why I work with so many women, especially women in midlife.
00;31;23;26 – 00;31;53;13
Unknown
And later, because we’ve gotten to an age where we’ve started to cop to this stuff. When we started to realize that it’s it’s holding us back. We’re not trying to obligation sex anymore. Right? We’re trying to say, oh, could some of this be for me? And then we run into all this shit that’s in there that we didn’t even we never unpacked, which is like, oh my God, I have all this shame that’s in my way where I don’t feel entitled to say, hey, I actually am feeling pretty horny right now.
00;31;53;13 – 00;32;18;13
Unknown
Like, I would really like to have some sex and this is exactly how I want it. Right. And or what is there, what kind of messages did we get as a kid. What kind of like sexual repression have we had. What kind of experiences have told us it’s not okay. Or one of the things that really comes up is a lot of times girls are socialized to think if we initiate anything, we have to quote unquote finish it for the man.
00;32;18;16 – 00;32;36;25
Unknown
So as if like, maybe I would like to be a little bit sexual, but I don’t know how far I want to go. I don’t know if I want penis in my pussy, right. Like, yeah, I don’t know if that’s where I’m going. You’re fine with it. Whatever you Scott, you actually liked it. We can. I just took me by surprise itself.
00;32;36;28 – 00;33;02;03
Unknown
Sorry. We can drop that down, but we can’t say the word. Pussy is a normal human anatomy, and 51% assessment show. Yeah, well, now you can tell. Now we do talk about porn. To talk about the pussy to. So, you know, maybe we don’t know if that’s what we want, but maybe we might like to have some, like, naked snuggles and see where it goes.
00;33;02;03 – 00;33;32;11
Unknown
Right. But we’re taught from a very young age that somehow he. His orgasm is like the end goal and the most important thing. And that’s when everything is sort of over, quote unquote, supposedly that’s a horrible way to have sex, by the way. But yeah, if we think that we’re on the hook to go and but we don’t yet know if that’s what we want, then we don’t even want to initiate because it feels like we’re obligated.
00;33;32;14 – 00;33;56;06
Unknown
But you know what’s interesting? We’re not obligated. You can have a lovely like you can have a really hot makeout session. You can have all kinds of things between, you know, there’s all kinds of different things that you can do with a partner. And a lot of times it feels really great. And maybe we would like to actually wind up having some penis and vagina sex, but we don’t know, right?
00;33;56;06 – 00;34;18;14
Unknown
Because most of us are not getting enough foreplay. I mean, the average woman needs 30 to 45 minutes, and the average American time and foreplay is like 5 to 10. So we’re not really often getting the sex we want. And then we wonder why we don’t want it. And then we shame ourselves. We wonder what make a point because we’re told we’re not supposed to ask for it.
00;34;18;14 – 00;34;37;06
Unknown
So I mean, there’s all this stuff that just needs to get unpacked, and then we’re married. Women want what they want. Yeah. And for couples to really be able to communicate about what they’re doing, how they’re doing it, and how they’re going to have, you know, because you can have the best sex to your life over 40, like, for, for sure.
00;34;37;09 – 00;35;06;02
Unknown
But a lot of people aren’t, you know, I can’t honestly name for you, on one hand, the amount of women that I know in my inner circle that are like having a just I’m for caffeine, I can’t stop. I just love having sex so much. My husband’s so great. This is so honestly, I could not I could not name for you two people in my closest circle that are just so.
00;35;06;04 – 00;35;32;28
Unknown
And if they did, if they did, I’d be like, the hell’s going on over there? You know, and honestly, my first thought would be their husbands doing a good job, not sexually, their husbands doing a good job, emotional right, would be what I would be thinking to myself. Like what? What’s being emotionally fulfilled for that woman? That she has the space and ability to be able to be like, wow, I’m not exhausted at the end of the day, right?
00;35;33;00 – 00;35;52;06
Unknown
I’m not resentful. I’m not pissed that this has to become whatever, you know? And I think, Laura, something you said really resonated with me, this the sense of obligation. So when I was first thinking about that, I was thinking, oh, we could just stop, you know, at any time if I don’t want to do this anymore, I don’t want to do it right.
00;35;52;06 – 00;36;31;25
Unknown
I tell myself that mentally. But what was interesting about the obligation piece was when you said, well, maybe you just want to have a cuddle fest and that has come up for me previously, is there are times that I want to physically touch my husband in bed watching TV, because I just want to lay there on his chest and have him rub my arm and also watch TV, and then I fall asleep, but I don’t I don’t usually initiate that because I in my mind, I think he’s either so starved for some type of physical affection or he’s thinking to himself, wow, okay, okay, here’s where we’re starting this, and this is going to lead
00;36;31;25 – 00;37;07;22
Unknown
into something else that, that I don’t that that it has to turn into sex. Right in that. So I will avoid the physical touch of connecting by cuddling because maybe I might not be in that place. So that sense of obligation you were talking about made sense to me in those terms versus the, you know, if we’re in the middle of it or if things are getting hot and heavy and I’m like, I just don’t feel like doing this anymore, you know, but that I do wonder how many women also feel that way, that men really are maybe looking for this sense of physical touch.
00;37;07;22 – 00;37;31;09
Unknown
And women may be apprehensive of doing that because they’re like, oh boy, I don’t want to give the allure that this has to be something more right than just cuddling or touching. That’s just a communication issue. Right. That’s a communication issue. I’m like we need to have a conversation because what’s happening there is that unfortunately neither of you are getting stuff that you want.
00;37;31;11 – 00;38;05;13
Unknown
Right. Like right. It would probably be lovely for both of you to have that moment right. And because there’s not a lot of communication that hey sometimes this is what I’m going to want and we can just talk about, we can just have some words about or even if you’re not very verbal people, if you want to just have like ways that you escalate and inquire that are based on sort of looks or certain types of touches, you know, like it might be like, we do it, you know, or are we is is this good?
00;38;05;13 – 00;38;25;26
Unknown
Is this what you would like? You know, like, but we can practice having those conversations so that we can allow ourselves more touch and connection. Yeah. So what would your rec what would your recommendations be. So if Rebecca and I are in your office. Well actually before I ask that question. So that is when you’re ready to do it.
00;38;25;26 – 00;38;59;21
Unknown
And like I said I do what I ask is can you, can you talk a little bit about differences that you see in gay relationships. So to women, to men, you know, do you find that the problems are similar in terms of communication or because often they’re starting with a same socialized place too? Those conversations sound different. So there’s other stereotypes for gay and lesbian relationships, and they can’t play out, pretty commonly.
00;38;59;21 – 00;39;27;03
Unknown
But it’s again, it’s not universal, just like in the heterosexual dynamic where you’d have different social gender socialization. If you have two people who’ve been socialized as women together, what can often happen is they get stuck in like over emotional processing where there’s not a lot of physical contact because that would be, seriously shit. So my it’s like we need to stay.
00;39;27;03 – 00;39;46;28
Unknown
Yeah. No, it’s like you can have that in friendships too, right? Where you’re just like. So in it all the time emotionally to try to get to that safe place where you actually and, and because our society is so focused on sort of like the neck up like we, we walk through the world, like in our heads and not in our bodies.
00;39;46;28 – 00;40;14;04
Unknown
Very often we’re trained out of our bodies very early, you know, in school, sit still. You know, you have to like, lock locked down your body. You start to try to kind of cerebral ize yourself. Yeah. When we’re not really in our bodies, being in an embodied experience with each other, we can get kind of overly heady and start kind of emotional, like, like, like pulling apart the emotions like to the nth degree.
00;40;14;07 – 00;40;46;13
Unknown
And that is not helpful either. Right? We need to like, you know, oftentimes we need to connect to our body. I just I feel that that’s yeah. It’s so true. It’s also you know that it is even harder. Are in it really. And if you’re okay, you know, as long as you’ve had some conversation about how you do like touch and if you’re okay with touch between the two of you, sometimes even just like a hand on the shoulder, right, or something, to just be like when we share a bed, we got to put pillows down.
00;40;46;13 – 00;41;06;26
Unknown
The little don’t get near me, okay? So I’m talking about you, I cannot wait, I cannot wait till you might have together. And we might have some things to unpack with you. In touch if you’re okay. Yeah, we might, we might need. I need at least seven sessions just for myself. Just for your own self. And talk about touch.
00;41;06;26 – 00;41;28;27
Unknown
Yeah. Do you need me to come in? Yeah. With you. Scott. You ready to? Actually, I do do this of touch work with people. I’m like a massage table with, like, I’m not actually putting you like the blankets. You’re touching you. Oh, my God, I love you. Pillows. Pillows that can be comforting so that we can create kind of like a space where your bodies feel supported, but, like, I’m not touching you.
00;41;28;27 – 00;41;51;07
Unknown
And that’s really helpful for people who have some, to sleep around pregnancy pillow or some every single night. I, I’m in I’m in a cocoon in my pregnancy pillow in my bed. Yeah. So that makes time. I can see why. And we only have sex on film side of the bed.
00;41;51;09 – 00;42;13;15
Unknown
Don’t even come over here. Oh, no. That’s what my mom. I said, if you try, if you try to do anything on this pillow. We got to think back to my principle. Laura, that’s your full career where you have right here, I know. Right? You have, like, all these coping mechanisms that you’ve gotten that are great. Like that work for you, right?
00;42;13;17 – 00;42;32;03
Unknown
My bitch face is really I love that. Don’t touch me. Oh, yeah. Not touch me. I can not wait till we’re in the same bed together. I swear to God. I’m going to wait till you’re almost to sleep. And then I’m. I go like this here. I will punch you in the face. Oh my God, oh my God.
00;42;32;06 – 00;42;49;27
Unknown
You’re activating to. I’m good with boundaries. I want to make sure. Let’s see, what was your eye. Now let’s go back to your question because I’m talking like so. So the question was in gay and lesbian relationships. And you mentioned that sometimes there’s all women can that they don’t kind of get into the over process. Yes, yes, yes.
00;42;50;02 – 00;43;10;00
Unknown
And can kind of sometimes get out of the physicality. And that can be a real source of disconnection. But they, they then they start trying to talk about it and not actually do stuff about it. And so, one of the things I do with working with queer women is help them get like practice getting more into their body and and touching and reconnecting through touch.
00;43;10;02 – 00;43;33;20
Unknown
Interesting. With men, oftentimes it’s kind of the opposite, where sometimes like they’ll instead of like, like emotionally resolving conflict, they’ll just have sex, which can be great and reach, some extent. It’s our whole friend group. And there are some women who like that too. So there can be heterosexual relationships where that works too. But it’s it’s kind of a minority.
00;43;33;23 – 00;43;50;19
Unknown
And I just want to bang, bang more often for gay men. Yeah. We’re just going to bang it out. Right? And they do. And that can be great. Do that. Not with me. Not with me. I’m sorry. Come not with me either. New. Did you say not with you either. No, we’re not banging anything out. Yeah, not with me.
00;43;50;21 – 00;44;08;00
Unknown
It doesn’t work for me either. I’m sorry. Did we talk about it for half an hour? I’m sorry. I mean, two hours before this happened and my partner might be able to bang it out. Yeah, maybe tomorrow when I finally come down from my highly sensitive. Hi about what you did and why you’re wrong. All right. He’s gonna say.
00;44;08;00 – 00;44;20;23
Unknown
And he has to tell you you’re right. And you need to tell me I’m right and why you’re wrong and what you’re never going to do again. And then repeat back to me what I told you in your own words. Don’t parrot it back to me, and then maybe you’ll have a chance of having sex. And 48 hours.
00;44;20;25 – 00;44;43;21
Unknown
So we got some work to do with you. And right there. I mean, how did you relationship prepare? Well, so that you’re not both resentful? Yeah. So we do that. I teach people that to. But we, you know, for gay men, a lot of times there’s, there’s a lack of sometimes people feel a lack of emotional intimacy, and they really want to have more emotional intimacy, but it feels like they’re disposed to have sex all the time.
00;44;43;21 – 00;45;06;14
Unknown
And so that can be kind of a challenge. But that’s again, not true in every in every relationship. But just like stereotypical, like gender socialization, it’s not just like the stereotypes. It’s actually like we’re trained to be stereotypes is the problem, you know, from a young age. And so we all have those expectations of ourselves and like the calls coming from in the house.
00;45;06;14 – 00;45;26;05
Unknown
Right? It’s like, yeah, there’s this voice in our head that’s telling us we should be this way, even though that’s not true. Right. It’s like the old school party line with a with a 4 to 5 minutes that we have last. Because I want to make sure that I get you to your appointment. Laura, what would you say is your biggest piece of advice?
00;45;26;05 – 00;45;43;21
Unknown
If you could leave our listeners with a piece of advice or a recommendation of what they could do, even on their own, to get started with this before they all book with you? Because I have a feeling that, we’re gonna have a lot of people running your the head of this show. You all better wait in line because I’m first.
00;45;43;24 – 00;46;03;18
Unknown
You know, what would be your biggest piece of advice? So what would you say to our listeners? Yeah, I love that question, because I think there’s a lot you can do on your own. And one of the biggest pieces of advice that, I it comes from my own learning because I’ve had all the problems, which is why I know for sure.
00;46;03;19 – 00;46;38;06
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That makes you a good coach, right? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Is really honor. What your body is telling you. And that doesn’t mean believe all your feelings, right? That doesn’t mean, like, if I am angry, I’m somehow justified in feeling angry. But. But let your body actually tell you the truth of a situation. You know, our emotions are like signposts to kind of tell us what’s going on and anger is just a is a signpost that says, I’m perceiving some sort of injustice here.
00;46;38;11 – 00;47;01;25
Unknown
Right. But listening instead of kind of trying to think our way out of things or tell ourselves the words, if there’s any a should in your head, just erase it because it is not helping you. Right. Getting out of that heading is and actually starting to allow your body to give you that truth of your own experience is really game changing.
00;47;01;25 – 00;47;28;17
Unknown
So if you are feeling uncomfortable or you’re feeling the heebie jeebies with your partner’s touch like it’s okay, you are allowed to have preferences, you’re allowed to say, oh, that is not my preferred touch. This is right. Like I don’t like my God, I do not like like the tongue in my ear. That is the one that gives me like the whole body heebie jeebies and makes me want to like, punch people for doing away with tongue in my ear.
00;47;28;20 – 00;47;45;16
Unknown
So I tell people that right in the beginning, like, no, think that was in your. Well, I don’t think it was the the nibbling of the earlobe. This is how long ago happened. I think it was tongue in the ear. And you just triggered that for me. And it was it’s the wetness and it feels like you’re there and it plugs and then it doesn’t.
00;47;45;19 – 00;48;14;26
Unknown
I can spit the spill out just yet. So it’s not good. It’s just not not you’re not getting it. So many people love it. Like their past partner probably loved it. Right. And so then oh my God, my ears right now. Oh yeah. You are allowed me. That’s the process. It’s what I would say. I think that is like feel into your body what is true for you and like see if you can agree like allow your body to have a say as much as your mind does.
00;48;14;27 – 00;48;31;16
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. And, just notice that it’s okay for you to have preferences. It’s okay for you to speak about what you want. It’s okay for you to speak about what you like, you know, and it’s okay for you to speak about what you don’t like. Yeah. I love and it’s okay for other people to do the same.
00;48;31;19 – 00;48;53;00
Unknown
Right. It’s okay for them to have preferences too. And so allowing that in to have those conversations, not when you’re having sex but when I look at another time I have a whole episode actually in my podcast about like when to talk about stuff and when not talk about someone who listens. Yeah, that’s right. Right. Speaker one you know, it’s like having sex, like, stop it, stop touching me and give me the heebie jeebies.
00;48;53;03 – 00;49;18;21
Unknown
He’s like, wow, I still feel really in the mood right now. That’s what I mean. Because, yeah, right. Exactly, exactly. I this is really great. I really loved this session. I love the conversations about intimacy and vulnerability and yeah, that that too. She probably talks about that too. So yeah. So Doctor Laura, if anyone would like to get a hold of you, what is the best way for them to do that?
00;49;18;23 – 00;49;41;27
Unknown
They could go to my website, which is just my name. So Laura jergens.com and the Jergens is with a u r g e is not an e are not the heir to the hand lotion empire. So they’re freaking hilarious. I know. I was I do this work, to be honest, but I would have a oh like, you know, hand lotion empire.
00;49;42;04 – 00;50;06;20
Unknown
That’s going to be the picture. That was the top three things you’ve ever said that were hilarious. All I am is this picture of Laura with this Jergens bottle, a box of tissues in a Jergens bottle behind her. That’s shit’s layer. Yeah. Haha. Wow, that was so witty. Like, that was really quick. Yeah. You know what makes me want to have sex with you?
00;50;06;23 – 00;50;30;19
Unknown
It’s like, I love when you’re witty like that. You sex kitten stays. I love it. Doctor Laura Jergens, sex relationship and embodiment coach. Also host of sex Hope for Smart People podcast. Definitely connect with her. Find her, engage with her. Get that sex life back on track. Learn about yourself. Your intimacy. Holy cow, I almost dropped that.
00;50;30;21 – 00;50;45;27
Unknown
I got real excited. I think your intimacy was like witty comment. Yeah, nice. Some witty comments. It was such a pleasure to have you on the show, Laura. Thanks for being with us today and I have for sure believe that you’ll be hearing from Rebecca.
00;50;46;00 – 00;51;12;00
Unknown
Thank you for being here today. Thank you. I loved that. Me too. Isn’t empathy amazing? Well, we’re amazing. I don’t know about all this empathy stuff. That’s fine. I accept you wherever you are. Oh, God, I love you. I love you, too. And if you love us, please like and subscribe to More Love the Power of Empathy podcast wherever you get your podcasts.
00;51;12;08 – 00;51;24;12
Unknown
See you next time.
