Episode 110 – Empathy Boundaries and A Bedroom Portal – Part 1

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Rebecca’s voodoo shop remains open, this time focused on the heart chakra. Erin remains skeptical, but not as skeptical as she is about Rebecca’s bedroom portal… They then move into discussing the scenarios in which their empathy boundaries are securely in place. Where do you have good empathy boundaries? When are you clear that empathy stops and a strong boundary begins? Join us next week for Part II of this discussion.

0:00:09 – Speaker 1
Hey, it’s me, Erin. Thanks for joining us on the More Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside, but the truth is she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Here she comes.
0:00:28 – Speaker 2
Hey, Bestie, Hi love.
0:00:30 – Speaker 1
What are you doing? Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast About what Life? Our life as best friends who are more like sisters? Yay, I love us and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world, Especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right To be our most authentic selves.
0:00:50 – Speaker 2
Oh man Okay.
0:00:55 – Speaker 1
I absolutely love that. You are totally mouthing something to think right now. I have no idea what it is, and the best part is I don’t know if I can ask you to say whatever you’re about to say on air, because it’s probably not appropriate. So I’m, I’m literally just like over here.
0:01:09 – Speaker 2
We’ll talk about it later. We’ll talk about it when we’re done.
0:01:11 – Speaker 1
What are you saying?
0:01:14 – Speaker 2
0:01:15 – Speaker 1
If I said it in the mic. It would have picked it up, just like when you hang around your who knows what it is so Scott’s like hey, I got to get some silencers for these mics because lots of you can hear everything, right. And then you’re like you know what I’m going to do. I’m going to move all my rocks.
0:01:28 – Speaker 2
No, you were the banger.
0:01:29 – Speaker 1
I did bang the one time. But you’re like, let me move my mirror. Let me drink from my cup with my ice in it, Let me move my what is that?
0:01:39 – Speaker 2
Okay, what is that thing? What?
0:01:41 – Speaker 1
That white rock. Thing.
0:01:43 – Speaker 2
That, yeah, that’s my crystal. Yeah, it brings me healing.
0:01:46 – Speaker 1
Okay, we had to move that during the intro too.
0:01:49 – Speaker 2
It’s gotta go where it feels good.
0:01:51 – Speaker 1
0:01:52 – Speaker 2
Is that where it feels good?
0:01:53 – Speaker 1
I don’t know, I may have to move it. Okay, yeah, I totally understand. Listen, this is how I want to start today’s podcast. How confident was I that you were going to wear your lesbian shoes today? 100%, percent that’s the first thing you said to me yesterday.
0:02:08 – Speaker 2
Percent it’s the first thing you said You’re like oh, you said nothing, you just looked at me. And then you said what are you buying? Your Subaru, and I know exactly what you were talking about.
0:02:19 – Speaker 1
I didn’t even say anything about your shoes, but I looked at your shoes and I looked at you and I’m like so when is that Subaru coming in? And you knew immediately those shoes are not okay. Oh, they’re great.
0:02:31 – Speaker 2
You’re like oh my gosh.
0:02:32 – Speaker 1
I wore them all around, tom Disney. I don’t care where you wore them, they’re not okay. Listen to me so much. So this is how confident I was. Did we talk about you wearing your shoes today? No, but I was so confident that you were going to wear those Birkenstock looking ridiculous shoes that I’m like, oh, we’re all going to wear 40 year old shoes. Well, I got mine too.
0:02:53 – Speaker 2
I brought my cracks today. You did make me wear cracks. I wore these Absolutely.
0:03:00 – Speaker 1
Yeah, I wore these today in honor of the fact that I know you so well that I knew you were going to wear those shoes today. You’re right, and we’ll have Scott put a picture of them on so people can weigh in on how they feel about your shoes.
0:03:14 – Speaker 2
I’m telling you, I guarantee you, people are going to say those are great.
0:03:18 – Speaker 1
Yeah, only if they’re over 40 cannot. I knew it. I knew. I just absolutely knew you were going to wear those.
0:03:26 – Speaker 2
They’re leaf leather sandals.
0:03:30 – Speaker 1
Okay, tie dye.
0:03:31 – Speaker 2
What are you?
0:03:32 – Speaker 1
12? No, I wear these out in the garden. Okay, these don’t come out with me anywhere in public, but I knew if you were going to wear those shoes. I had to make sure we were both in our 40 plus club shoes. I didn’t say anything to you. No, you thought they were a normal part of my outfit. Right, they’re not. These are my garden shoes. I cannot. Did you also see my hair today? I know you didn’t say anything about it Because it was better than yours does mostly.
0:03:58 – Speaker 2
I knew it yeah. I knew it because we were running super late and I know if we would have gotten into all the things but did you notice it?
0:04:05 – Speaker 1
I did, nailed it. Listen, I don’t think it’s it, but I’ve been watching the podcasts, you know, and your hair is always so bouffant. It is so bouffant. And then I like, and then like, scott pans to me and I’m like what the hell, why is that so flat? So I’m like I got to do something. And you know, I don’t know how to curl my hair, no, you nailed it. So I got this like crimper you know it’s a beach waiver.
0:04:28 – Speaker 2
It’s one of those waivers.
0:04:30 – Speaker 1
Yeah, so it gave me a little extra bouff today.
0:04:34 – Speaker 2
And I haven’t washed my hair. And then here I am, so you know, you yeah you get here.
0:04:39 – Speaker 1
I look Amish, you get here and I’m like she’s going to say something about my hair. She’s going to say something about my hair. She’s going to say something about my hair? Nothing.
0:04:44 – Speaker 2
Absolutely nothing. We couldn’t talk about that yet.
0:04:47 – Speaker 1
No, right, because you came peeling in here with two minutes to spare.
0:04:51 – Speaker 2
It’s fine, it’s fine, I did have to take an alternative route because there was a pile up on the highway. Good thing, good. All things lead to the podcast studio. Yes, it’s true.
0:05:03 – Speaker 1
Scott, thanks for the fan. Yes, Thanks for the fan. Appreciate that. This Perry. My apostle group in here really appreciates the fan very much so I don’t know it’s making my.
0:05:13 – Speaker 2
Might be indicating where my mermaid incense is going yeah. Make sure you do that little loop to loop around your head.
0:05:21 – Speaker 1
No, I did it again. What smell are we on today? We’re in.
0:05:24 – Speaker 2
Pixie Island. You pick number one. Okay, pixie Island, all right, oh, look what just happened.
0:05:29 – Speaker 1
It’s fine, you’ll just knock that right on the floor and it makes Scott take care of it. It’s fine, it’s okay, it’s nobody to do Well. So one thing I wanted to say is that I think we traumatized some people from our last episode of the whale. I know, I know, okay, got a couple of messages about that. One of my favorite messages was from Nina. I know I read it this morning and I’m like Nina, I warned you.
Nina, I know it was not okay. Kelly up the streets Like thank God, I watched that by myself. I told you Right. I mean Nina wrote me a separate text message that said I’m pretty sure I hate you for making me watch that movie.
0:06:03 – Speaker 2
Okay, it was next level, we weren’t prepared.
0:06:07 – Speaker 1
No, no because all you said was. This is a movie about empathy, because I googled it yeah.
0:06:12 – Speaker 2
Therefore everybody else should not be prepared and have to experience the same thing.
0:06:15 – Speaker 1
we did Right. Oh, my other favorite was that your friend Sarah is like hey, I was on a plane in the opening episode where he’s masturbating. I really had turned that off real quick because I forgot all about that. Yeah. All the people and she’s like off, turn it off.
0:06:28 – Speaker 2
Turn it off. Turn it off, it’s not okay.
0:06:30 – Speaker 1
I forgot about that too. I forgot all about it, yeah.
0:06:33 – Speaker 2
I’m pretty sure opening scene.
0:06:35 – Speaker 1
You’re like I got this movie we want to watch. I’m like, what are we?
0:06:38 – Speaker 2
watching here. Good thing we made the kids leave. Yeah, we never even talked about that because we were.
0:06:43 – Speaker 1
No, we went from zero to 100. I know so. Anyway, we traumatized some people.
0:06:47 – Speaker 2
I’m really sorry guys.
0:06:48 – Speaker 1
Yeah, and we’re all done with those reviews.
0:06:51 – Speaker 2
We’re all done. Well, let’s, let’s set the intentions, got it All right. So you already picked green. Yeah, what is green? So chakras for today are oil chakras, love, oh that’s a nice heart chakra, which is funny because on the way here, we were talking about what we might talk about today and yeah this is apropos for speaking of apropos, erin and I grew up two and half hours. Are you farting? That’s your fart face, did you? You lifted the side of your cheek and that was your fart face.
0:07:27 – Speaker 1
You know what. I appreciate that. You know me well enough to know what my fart face looks like. But number two, I did not. I was not sure where you were going with the apropos. I thought you were going to define it for people and I think my face is, but I don’t think you know what apropos means.
0:07:53 – Speaker 2
Everything about my face is in that moment, and then you just really threw me off. Speaking of farting, I noticed you listed your desk chair for sale. Do people know why? I don’t think anybody wants the desk chair.
0:08:08 – Speaker 1
So we gave it to Kelly of the street.
0:08:09 – Speaker 2
No, you didn’t. She said you know, I don’t know. Oh, I don’t know if we’ve talked about it on one of our walks.
0:08:17 – Speaker 1
But anyway, not okay, all right.
0:08:20 – Speaker 2
So apropos real quick. Erin and I grew up what? Two and a half, three hours away from each other. And we were chitchatting had to have been a couple months ago about what, who knows. And all of a sudden we got to prom dresses in high school and you were seeing how you saw this dress in a magazine and you had to have it and your dad found it, or whatever. And it was at this, this shop in apropos, and I looked at you and I said stop it.
0:08:45 – Speaker 1
This shop in Albany called apropos Amsterdam, oh Amsterdam.
0:08:48 – Speaker 2
And I said stop it right now, Because that’s where I got my dress in high school and we did not have any clue that the other existed. And Amsterdam is some random place, not even really in between. It’s closer to me, but we were. I’m like I can’t. Once again. There’s all these similar ones in there we were in there at the same time. You were probably judging judges. Oh, absolutely, I’m like wow, whatever.
0:09:13 – Speaker 1
Okay, get some more sequins. Yeah, it’s absolutely so. We met each other way before we met each other. We just didn’t know it was an apropos in Amsterdam, which is that’s a weird way, Okay back to back to the back to the left.
0:09:24 – Speaker 2
Okay, so this is the fourth chakra, the heart chakra. It’s the center of our seven chakras and it’s located in a pure spiritual place, in the center of the chest. Oh, I didn’t give you the roll roller. Yeah, yeah, not on the W’s. Nope, not on the W. This is where you, this is the, the exact point in your chest where the spiritual and physical energies meet. Okay, it allows us to deeply understand empathy, oh, and compassion. This is perfect for today’s topic. Alignment of the chakra. Help us to internalize our responses to hurt and love with compassion and by emotionally allowing negative energies to pass, we are more open to loving ourselves and others.
0:10:07 – Speaker 1
Do they make that in a huge size that maybe you could take?
0:10:11 – Speaker 2
a bath in or something you know. When I was going through my hypnotherapy, I was explaining to her that I had constant chest pain, constant my whole entire life, and it would just never go away. And the doctors would just be like you know, it’s GERD, it’s acid reflux, and reality is it’s in the middle of my chest. I would always say I feel like my bra, somebody’s twisting my bra and pulling it, because it’s all the way around. Acid reflux is in your throat.
0:10:40 – Speaker 1
No one ever said that to me.
0:10:41 – Speaker 2
But they just treated me. I was on them premises, all the things forever and nothing ever helped up because it wasn’t an acid reflux. My heart chakra was always out of alignment, always my entire life.
0:10:52 – Speaker 1
You had a broken heart.
0:10:53 – Speaker 2
Always Wow. And so when I went through the hypnotherapy and discovered that I ended up buying a necklace of rose quartz because that also helps heal and I would sleep with it at night in between my chest and, ironically, last year I was diagnosed with skin cancer and the exact location was in between my chest.
0:11:17 – Speaker 1
And you think that was because of the gems that you were wearing behind it or no.
0:11:24 – Speaker 2
I think that I, finally I went through the healing process and I think that it, it came out, it came out.
0:11:29 – Speaker 1
Wow, you watched them take it out. That’s I sure did. That’s some voodoo stuff right there. So you think that the skin cancer coming out was the negativity coming out of your body.
0:11:42 – Speaker 2
It took some time.
0:11:44 – Speaker 1
0:11:44 – Speaker 2
I watched that guy Cause that that mole was not there. I looked back in pictures Interesting Three years ago it was not there and then it came out. It came out, it came out and I was told to go to the dermatologist to check out some other moles not even that one, and the woman didn’t even look at that one. And I go this is really ugly, can you take this? She’s like, yeah, I guess I’m taking the other ones. That was the cancer, wow.
0:12:08 – Speaker 1
Yep, did you remember that? Well, you went to go see your dermatologist. Was it dermatologist? No, it was the plastic surgeon Plastic surgeon.
0:12:15 – Speaker 2
I walked in and I said to you how many people in here think I’m coming for a boob job A hundred, and you said a hundred percent A hundred percent. And then we get in there and we immediately saw a wooden box on the top of like a really tall shelf and you’re like I need to know what’s in there, I need to know. And you immediately went up and got it and it was silicone, the silicone boobs.
0:12:36 – Speaker 1
Boops yeah, I have to know what those are, I know. And then even that guy, the plastic surgeon, was like you guys are a trip, I know. You guys are something else.
0:12:47 – Speaker 2
I know.
0:12:48 – Speaker 1
Because I think at one point you said to him so how long until she can sponge bath me? And he is like well, don’t get me started here, ladies, don’t get me started.
0:12:58 – Speaker 2
It’s true, right, that’s hilarious, as you’re hovering over me. What should I want to take it out? I need to see it. I need to see that.
0:13:06 – Speaker 1
And then, as I’m watching it happen, you just think that he’s just like beep. Beep, just a tiny little bit. It was like a green grape size that they were taking out. I’m like I’m pretty sure I’m going to see her heart here in a minute.
0:13:21 – Speaker 2
He is so far down there. Remember it took 20 minutes to numb me, yeah.
0:13:26 – Speaker 1
And then we get in the elevator on the way home and you’re like, what does this say? And you’re looking at the oh when I got my results.
0:13:34 – Speaker 2
Yeah, was it the results?
0:13:36 – Speaker 1
It was the results, and what it said specimen, herzog, alone, alone, only Herzog. And you’re like who else would be in there? And I lost it. They lost it. It was like, yeah, who else is specimen? Would they put in your little specimen cup? Probably yours. Yeah, there we are Little specimens right next to each other. Oh my God, so All right?
0:14:04 – Speaker 2
So we’re going to love this Perfect. I know I picked it.
0:14:07 – Speaker 1
It does smell pretty good.
0:14:08 – Speaker 2
Oh, you like this one. That means you don’t need it in your life, that’s right. That’s right. It smells like shit to me.
0:14:13 – Speaker 1
I don’t it does. It smells like you. Yeah, ok, I got my dreamers cards out here, all right. One of them literally flew out on the floor. Yeah, it was this one. That’s interesting, and so I have to read this one because it flew out.
0:14:27 – Speaker 2
And let’s see if they’re connected.
0:14:29 – Speaker 1
OK, it says I am taking up space. I know that I do not need to avoid making others uncomfortable by playing small. Ok, that’s the one that flew out and this is the one I picked. I’m going to take risks. I know that my dreams are bigger than my fears. I swear to God.
0:14:56 – Speaker 2
So interesting, based on the conversation we had yesterday at the end of the day, the conversation on the phone with JV, yeah, and how that wasn’t scheduled and it turned into this beautiful conversation and I couldn’t say a whole lot because I was so emotional and it allowed me to think about it, which kept me up all night. It’s really interesting.
0:15:24 – Speaker 1
I know that I do not need to avoid making others uncomfortable by playing small. I don’t think I know how to play small.
0:15:36 – Speaker 2
Me neither, and I definitely don’t know how to make other people feel comfortable.
0:15:41 – Speaker 1
How uncomfortable comfortable.
0:15:43 – Speaker 2
So what is your verdict? Are you picking this or me? It’s me, I got to pick it today. How do you want to do it? Ok, just lay them all out.
0:15:50 – Speaker 1
Yep OK.
0:15:52 – Speaker 2
It’s an hour.
0:15:52 – Speaker 1
Right there Underneath, move, ok, move that big stack right there, yep, move it, yep, right there when your finger is. It’s that one, ok, peebs. What’s it say?
0:16:03 – Speaker 2
The Six of Cups, yep, and it’s a man and a woman holding hands frolicking in a field. Ok Interesting, that must be for you for sure. Why.
0:16:16 – Speaker 1
Because they’re frolicking.
0:16:18 – Speaker 2
No, no, ok hold on. Why? Because they’re in a field Like why is that one for me?
0:16:24 – Speaker 1
You don’t hold hands with people Like I’m confused.
0:16:26 – Speaker 2
Just hold on a second, ok, six of Cups, a scene from the past is observed in a dream state. Through the hazy lens of sleep, the dreamer watches her most revered memories unfold. In this fantasy realm, the romance of the past is amplified and only positive moments are projected. Looking at the past through this romantic lens can both be pleasurable and punishing. The dreamer loves reliving these unreachable pockets of time. However, the dream doesn’t bring forward the whole truth of what it was.
The Six of Cups encourages you to live in the present and be careful not to idolize the way things were. It can be lovely to reminisce on sweet memories, but be aware of what you may be romanticizing. Memories are distant and they soften over time, so people have a tendency to look back at them through a rosy lens. In truth, the past is not where you belong. You have grown and will no longer fit into your past experiences. Once you’re able to let go of the past, everything in your life will begin to move forward in alignment. What’s interesting for me is based on what has transpired in the past week and what happened to you over the weekend. Was it this week or last week, last weekend, last weekend? That really hits home for me, because it really is easy to go back to the past and what you know and what’s comfortable, even though it’s not the right thing, and you went full circle, which is this confirms that for me, for you.
0:17:53 – Speaker 1
Interesting. That’s exciting, and I was thinking about the charity and I was thinking about just past experiences and happiness and recipients and how beautiful it was in the time that you had with it for what it became. So I was thinking both rose colored glasses, but also the romanticizing of where we’ve been and where we’re going, and the letting go of some things to make room for others.
0:18:29 – Speaker 2
And one of our core principles in the charity is celebration. So it makes a lot of sense and as we move forward in this next journey, remembering it’s OK to celebrate and it’s OK to do that and realize that this is the next step. All right, and combine that with what you picked, along with our love, taking risks. We’re going to take risks and we’re going to ground it in love and we’re going to celebrate the past, but remember that we only remember the positive things.
0:19:05 – Speaker 1
Right and not to romanticize it, because there’s a gang and a gang to everything.
0:19:10 – Speaker 2
There’s a positive and a negative to everything. I needed this today. The only thing I had that hasn’t been oh, I didn’t get the pendulum out. The only thing that hasn’t been resolved is my experience last night.
0:19:21 – Speaker 1
I know and we do need the pendulum for that, and I’m going to do the pendulum.
0:19:25 – Speaker 2
Just so we’re clear. I don’t know if I want to know.
0:19:27 – Speaker 1
Yeah, well, I’ll do it myself. You can close your eyes and then.
0:19:30 – Speaker 2
I’ll let you know Nope, because I’m going to know the minute. I hear nothing or anything, or I just know your energy. I know, I know it’s not going to be good.
0:19:38 – Speaker 1
You do need to get it. I’ll fill some people in. I don’t remember what we were talking about in the car on the way here, but all you said was I don’t know. I was up at 3 30 in the morning working and I said why? And you said because I couldn’t sleep, because every time I woke up I was smelling peppermint or tobacco. And I said what does that mean? And you said you know what that means. And I thought I knew what that meant. I had a pretty good idea of what that meant. I think it probably has something to do with the portal and your doorway.
0:20:07 – Speaker 2
Yes, yeah, ok.
0:20:09 – Speaker 1
And so then I realized that be hilarious if this thing just lit on fire when I took it out.
0:20:16 – Speaker 2
No, then I’m all done, I’m moving. Gone she gone.
0:20:21 – Speaker 1
Bye, goodbye, this is not OK. This little pendulum here, yeah, so the listeners don’t know about your portal? No, they don’t, so maybe you should let them know I’m putting out our oils. Oh wow, Dude, that felt like the right thing to do in that moment. I need the stone. Which one? The green one.
0:20:40 – Speaker 2
Ok, here you go, I need it, not you. Yeah yeah, I have a portal in my bedroom doorway. Back up. When I first moved into my house, I felt fine, but I didn’t technically move in. I was living in your apartment. So if you guys haven’t read our timeline, this is a great opportunity to do that wwwthemoraladpodcastcom.
0:21:10 – Speaker 1
0:21:13 – Speaker 2
And I was pregnant and living in her, subletting her apartment because she had bought a house. And I eventually bought a house and we decided, because I was pregnant, it would be best to kind of renovate paint and not gut it or whatever, but just fix it up to move in while we were still living in the apartment so I didn’t have to smell the fumes and stuff. So everything was fine. And this sad story I was pregnant, six months pregnant, and my husband’s dream was to do home renovations with his dad, and so his dad would come over and they would work on the house and get it all prepped and ready to go. And then his dad and his mom went on their annual vacation down to their lake house and his father passed away while he was there and it was horrendous and terrible and very unexpected and confusing and all the emotions and it was hard. Not only was it hard to say goodbye to his dad, whom I’d only known for three years, but he was going to be a grandpa.
We were talking about all this. He was working on this house with my husband and the house kind of became the sad thing. And then Aaron had to come over and take over and help us with the renovations. Bye. Ever since then, I’ve had this strange presence in my home, and specifically in the doorway of my bedroom, which I don’t know why, but that’s what it is, and I’ve always just had these like peripheral things where I’d never seen anything, but I definitely feel it. It comes and goes.
0:23:07 – Speaker 1
Sometimes it’s creepy.
0:23:08 – Speaker 2
It’s just fell off. Of course it did. It’s just fell off. Why did it fall off? I don’t know. I don’t like that. The pendulum just fell off. I didn’t like that. The story.
0:23:15 – Speaker 1
I was just holding it. I was just holding it and it fell off and you were talking about it. I don’t like it. I gotta go See. I don’t like that and this looks like a little cross and I’m having a lot of feelings right now and I don’t like how I feel. And now I gotta Google it. I don’t know. I don’t like that. I’m sorry to have interrupted the story. It was a really important part, but then this fell off and now I don’t like how I feel that’s meaningful.
0:23:36 – Speaker 2
Oh boy, okay, now I’m gonna have to look that up. Okay, I’m putting my bed together. Oh boy, I’ve been just for years. I’ve always had these feelings and presence and whatever. And it’s specifically when my bed is in a certain place and many times when I get to the point where I can’t deal with it anymore, I’ll say to my husband we gotta switch the room around because I can’t be near the door. And so last night was one of those things. But prior to that, when my daughter now keep in mind my oldest daughter was six months. I was six months pregnant when we were. When he passed away, we had never talked about what we were gonna encourage him, her to call him. Ever you knew I don’t even know if anybody else knew and Erin was babies. Were you babysitting? Yes, you went full of plight.
And I had never told you about feeling how I felt in the house, because I didn’t want people to judge me.
0:24:25 – Speaker 1
No, I had given Taylor a bath. Right, I had covered her again. She was one too. All of the baby powder, All of it. She was like a little bun just covered in flour. It gave her all the baby part. Because I didn’t have kids at this time, I didn’t realize it was a thing, and I brought her into her room and I laid her down. She was a really easy kid, Right. I went out, I started watching TV. I had the monitor with me and I see her stand up, point to the corner of the room and she says buck, buck, buck, buck. So I walk in there I say what’s going on, Tay? What’s going on? She just continues to point in the corner of the room, say buck, buck, buck, buck. I’m like I have no clue what that means. This is weird, whatever. Lay her back down and I go out. You get home and I say I just want to let you know. Kid’s weird and this is what she did and you just had this look on your face because that’s what we wanted.
0:25:24 – Speaker 2
He was a hunter and he had a deer head in his living room and so we wanted her to call him buck. And so from that point on I was convinced it’s Phillips dad who is in our home, which when I went to his like I had a conversation about that, and she said to me you have some choices, because the minute you ask spirits to leave, they don’t re-enter. And she said, just so, you know. You know, because I was asking her, I’m like can you come over and like get rid of this, because it freaks me out? And she’s like but if it’s him and she goes, I’d be able to tell you it would be sad. And she goes, I mean, do bad things happen? I said no, I just have this presence. And so over the years I’ve reconciled it and whenever I trip out of nowhere or hurt myself or like stupid shit happens, I just say thanks, rick, thanks a lot, like I just acknowledge it.
But Taylor, she has green eyes, which I’ve read. I can’t wait for what you’re about to say. I read I cannot wait.
0:26:24 – Speaker 1
Every time we have these conversations you get a little more cookie. I love it. Please tell me what to the green eyes.
0:26:31 – Speaker 2
I read that children with light eyes, specifically green eyes, potentially have more. They can see more through the veil. I guess they can see potential spirits, they can see different dimensions. They can, they can. They have an easier time doing that, and so it didn’t surprise me when all this is happening. And most recently I’ve discovered that Taylor is super into the supernatural and we’ve never talked about this because it creeps me out. But the other day she said to me out of nowhere, she’s like mom, do you get a presence in the kitchen? And I looked at her and I said what do you mean? Because I absolutely do. When I’m doing dishes, I am convinced there is a little girl. I’ve never seen her, but there’s something by the garbage can in that hallway. So we’re sitting on the couch and I go what do you mean? And she goes do you ever feel like there’s this little girl by the garbage can? And I just looked her. I go we’re all done. We’re all done talking about this Gotta go.
0:27:35 – Speaker 1
Oh, I was about to push my button.
0:27:37 – Speaker 2
Oh, I might turn it off. Yeah, button, it’s not there.
0:27:41 – Speaker 1
Oh, Scott got rid of it probably because because it’s like I’m all done with that. Yeah.
0:27:45 – Speaker 2
But, honest to God, so it’s been. It’s been this, this thing. And so last night I this leads me to last night, which I have not talked to Taylor about because she went to school before I got up yeah, I’m that mom and because I had to go back to sleep because I had been up since three. I woke up in the night numerous times, which is kind of normal, but this particular time I would get whiffs of spearmint and then I’d go back to sleep and then I’d get whiffs of tobacco to the point where my husband smokes.
I thought he was out in the middle of the night smoking on the driveway which would come up into my window, but it was a thousand degrees last night. So I have my air on, I don’t have the windows open and I’m like this is weird. I go, what is happening Is some ghost smoking and then chewing gum, like what is happening, and I felt not okay. And then I would feel like tickles on my face, like cat hair, but the cat wasn’t in there. I’m like I’m not okay. So then I just sat up and did some work.
0:28:42 – Speaker 1
You just got out.
0:28:43 – Speaker 2
No, I didn’t get up. I just sat up and did work on my phone oh, on your phone, yeah, and then I fell back asleep because I’m telling you right now.
0:28:52 – Speaker 1
Nope, bro, nope, not seeing that, gotta go, gotta go I am not okay with it.
0:28:57 – Speaker 2
I want nothing to do with it. Yeah, I don’t like it. Rick, did Rick smoke? No, not that I know of.
0:29:06 – Speaker 1
I mean maybe, maybe when he was like younger but Interesting, yeah, but Phil does, yeah, interesting.
0:29:15 – Speaker 2
I know I know I don’t like it, I don’t like the feeling of it, I don’t like anything about it. So that threw me for a loop all day today. Spearmint and tobacco, yeah, like a minty. You know we got to look that up after. I know I have been avoiding it. And then your thing broke and then my thing broke.
0:29:32 – Speaker 1
Not only did the thing broke, but you see this little thing that goes on the top. That part fell off. It’s not going back, I can’t. So you’re going to still you’re going to ask it.
0:29:42 – Speaker 2
I can’t Because if it, is.
0:29:44 – Speaker 1
I just want to be really clear. I’m not this person. Again, I’m the scientist of the two of us.
0:29:48 – Speaker 2
That’s why it’s happening to you, because then nobody can say that I will wait.
0:29:52 – Speaker 1
Because I’m so empathic, like this thing broke and I almost had a meltdown. Why? Not? Necessarily? Because I’m like, oh no, that really means something, but I know it means something for you, and then I can’t handle it.
0:30:05 – Speaker 2
I even gave you a pendulum for your birthday. Yeah, I know that’s in my office, I know, so you can ask it questions when you have very important things to answer. Right, should I take out a million dollar loan?
0:30:16 – Speaker 1
Should I find a?
0:30:17 – Speaker 2
building yeah.
0:30:20 – Speaker 1
All right. So you want? I’m going to ask it. I need to know again. I never remember this. Is it when it goes in a circle left? Then it’s yes.
0:30:31 – Speaker 2
Circle is yes.
0:30:33 – Speaker 1
Back and forth is no Right Okay.
0:30:35 – Speaker 2
Hold on Now, you.
0:30:37 – Speaker 1
I know Sorry, but we need to know what question you would like to have answered. Is there a spirit in Rebecca’s bedroom?
0:30:48 – Speaker 2
I’m not okay that you are going to ask that You’re not. I don’t want to know.
0:30:54 – Speaker 1
Let me just do it, I’m going to do it, I’m going to do it, I’m going to do it. If this thing falls off, you’re going to hear me run right out of here.
0:31:08 – Speaker 2
Is it doing circles?
0:31:12 – Speaker 1
I don’t know, I’m uncomfortable.
0:31:15 – Speaker 2
0:31:17 – Speaker 1
Maybe my energy is not good. Oh boy, what’s it doing?
0:31:22 – Speaker 2
Did I do a circle or back and forth? Stop it. I didn’t even look, because I was looking. Vertical swinging is no, horizontal is yes, so vertical is what? Up and down this?
0:31:31 – Speaker 1
way, horizontal is like the horizon Right or a circle.
0:31:38 – Speaker 2
What is a circle?
0:31:39 – Speaker 1
Oh, I can’t believe it.
0:31:44 – Speaker 2
I can’t believe because I’m not holding it. You need to hold it.
0:31:48 – Speaker 1
No, I don’t want to hold it. I want to hold it, oh boy.
0:31:51 – Speaker 2
So what is it?
0:31:51 – Speaker 1
doing. It’s just going in a circle. Oh boy, I think maybe the fan just blew it. Now it’s really going in a circle.
0:31:59 – Speaker 2
Do it over there. Do it over there, away from the fan. Okay, okay, got it out. Circular movement is neutral. Is it going back and forth like this? I don’t have my glasses on so I can’t see it’s going back and forth which way?
0:32:19 – Speaker 1
Horizontal or vertical? No, it’s going vertical. Oh boy, it’s going a lot now. It’s really going now, which way?
0:32:27 – Speaker 2
Vertical, that says no. Good Vertical says no, vertical is no, no, horizontal is yes, and then circular is neutral. Is that good then? It feels good about that. I mean ask it, why did I smell? You can’t talk to us. Oh, you’re right.
0:32:44 – Speaker 1
Yeah, I can’t be like hey there. So what’s the weather going to be tomorrow?
0:32:47 – Speaker 2
And all of a sudden the pendulum is like 87. Okay, ask it. Does Rick visit the Herzogs?
0:32:56 – Speaker 1
Does Rick visit the Herzogs? What’s it doing? It’s going horizontally back and forth. It says yes, hey, rick Buck, why?
0:33:11 – Speaker 2
don’t you ask it some other questions. Was Rick in my room last night?
0:33:14 – Speaker 1
Oh boy, what’s it doing? It’s definitely going horizontal. They don’t like this. All right, I’m putting this down. They don’t like it. They don’t like how I feel. I think fell off.
0:33:31 – Speaker 2
It’s not okay, I’m going to. I got a lot of research to do later, I know. So anyway, that’s where I’m at right now. I don’t feel good. I’ve already called Phillip. I’ve already. Oh, that’s what I told you. I said I’m branding late because I had to order all new bedding and all new decor for my room, because I got to attach the spirit to what’s currently there and burn it, throw it in the garbage. So that stuff will be there tomorrow. So tonight I am sleeping at your house. Okay, I don’t like it All right.
0:34:05 – Speaker 1
Well, onto the real reason for today’s podcast. Are you ready? I don’t know, you’re not there. You’re not in a place. Okay, what else do you still need to talk about?
0:34:15 – Speaker 2
No, I’ll do it, I’ll do it.
0:34:17 – Speaker 1
You need to talk about something else.
0:34:18 – Speaker 2
You’re still not okay. No, I’m just. I’m really preoccupied with the spirit. I don’t like that feeling.
0:34:24 – Speaker 1
Okay, okay, go ahead. You think you’re going to be able to pull yourself out of that? Yeah, do you need to rub a rock or something? I am not going to rock. You need to do something. No, I’m good, I’m good.
0:34:33 – Speaker 2
You sure I need more coffee. I need more coffee.
0:34:35 – Speaker 1
Okay, why don’t you take that crystal looking thing and like rub it between your boobs or something? Okay, there you go. Are you going to take me?
0:34:42 – Speaker 2
to lunch after oh God.
0:34:46 – Speaker 1
There it is. That’s the ask, folks.
0:34:48 – Speaker 2
I want some nachos.
0:34:49 – Speaker 1
There it is. Yeah, I’m sure you did. There’s a great nacho place right down the street. I know it, okay. Okay, go ahead, all right. So I think one of the things that we were talking about in last week’s episode was essentially what I’m calling the dark side of empathy, and it is this component of when is empathy too much because we don’t have boundaries around it, versus what are the examples in your life where you have no problem having no empathy?
0:35:20 – Speaker 2
0:35:21 – Speaker 1
I think for the two of us, we’re going to have very different reasons or thoughts associated with this, and so I did some thinking about this in terms of where do I need to have better boundaries or better protection over my empathy?
0:35:37 – Speaker 2
Just so we’re real clear. You always come in here prepared with thoughts and examples and things and then you just spring it on me and I just have to come up with it.
0:35:47 – Speaker 1
Well, just because we’re clear here that when you are given time to think about things, you go in all the directions, and when you are or I don’t do it at all, yeah, that’s a good point, that’s a good point, okay. But then when I’m like, hey, could you come up with this, like you really are your best in the moment, okay.
0:36:08 – Speaker 2
All right, plus I’m Plus. I guarantee you, if I went through your notes right now, you’d have all the things for me written down yeah, okay, so I’m here as well. Okay, in case you forgot something, okay.
0:36:19 – Speaker 1
Yeah. So we have two different categories here. One is in these cases, I have no trouble with empathy boundaries, and the other side is in these cases, I really struggle with empathy boundaries. Okay, so which side do you want to start with? No trouble with empathy boundaries or mega trouble with empathy boundaries no trouble, yeah.
0:36:44 – Speaker 2
0:36:47 – Speaker 1
So here’s the areas in which and I think this is important because, as I’ve listened back to some of the podcasts, there’s this sense that I am getting that the thought for me is that I just have empathy at all times and all situations and I’m all caring and which I would say is pretty accurate for your everyday, that you’re go to Just who you are as a human being, like that’s your natural instinct.
0:37:17 – Speaker 2
You’re just Interesting, you’re just. You always lead with that.
0:37:20 – Speaker 1
Okay, is it? So? It takes more to turn it off for me. Yes, okay, yes, okay, so yes, and also I’m aware that there are some real distinct situations where I either lack empathy, turn off empathy or completely step away from feeling empathic toward people.
So I’ve written some of those down, okay. The first one I have is when my own glass is too full, when I am personally in empathy overload, when I am caring for too many people, when I have way too much on my plate and that makes sense to me. That a normal response for me would be we got to shut this down a little bit because there’s no room for cream right now. So one of my areas where I have no trouble with empathy is when I am stressed to the max and I have way too much on my plate. Another one is if we don’t know each other and you’re rude or you’re an idiot and Drivers, I’m super discerning, so I’m going to figure out if you’re an idiot real quick and in those moments because I’m so discerning, I am real clear You’re rude, you’re an idiot. I don’t have any time for this. You should probably fix that.
0:38:50 – Speaker 2
Specifically when your main priority in that role not you, the idiot should be.
0:38:58 – Speaker 1
To do what they need to do or successfully.
0:39:00 – Speaker 2
Yes, you know, service, customer service, helping All those kinds of things.
0:39:08 – Speaker 1
You’re on the phone. You’re like a phone operator trying to help me through something.
0:39:13 – Speaker 2
All those things, it’s a little bit. You have a little bit more empathy. When it’s like a person driving who’s driving out of control or being an idiot, you have a little bit more for that, but it’s still only because it’s not their job to care about you. Well, kind of in the car.
0:39:28 – Speaker 1
but yeah, anyway. Well, I think that’s interesting because I do think that for me, when it comes to, I have an expectation of how you’re supposed to be acting or responding, or your quality of service is supposed to be in a certain way and it’s not like that and I think you are rude or just really completely out of your league. It’s very easy for me to be like shut that down, I don’t have time for that, I’m not interested in that. Everyone should probably help you fix that. You know who that someone is not me.
Right, yeah, okay. Next, I have no trouble with empathy boundaries. If you hurt someone that I care about, I will cut you.
0:40:15 – Speaker 2
Even if what? If it’s two people you care about very deeply and the one person hurts the other person, nope, then I’m in.
0:40:23 – Speaker 1
I’m in. So I’m in for both of them, okay, yeah.
0:40:28 – Speaker 2
If it’s a stranger, hurts someone you like or someone you don’t know, that well.
0:40:32 – Speaker 1
Or someone who is not on my inside hurts someone on my inside, okay, dead to me, okay Done, yeah Right. So I’m thinking about, like a friend who might be in a relationship and I feel like their partner is not caring for them or showing up or being the type of person that I need them to be. I have no empathy for that. Oh, you might be struggling with your own depression, your own career challenges, your own whatever, don’t care. Get that taken care of, because you’re hurting my person.
0:41:06 – Speaker 2
That’s a good point.
0:41:07 – Speaker 1
I do sometimes cut people out and have very distinguishable empathy boundaries for the people that are like my inside group versus those who are impacting my inside group.
Okay, I can relate to that you and Mark get in an argument and you’re both in my inside group. I’m there for both of you and I’m like okay, let’s figure that out. Let’s be real. I’m probably like Mark, she’s right. Okay, but I’m going to find some way to say that that it’s going to bring us all back together harmoniously. Right, if you are not in my inside as much as the other person and I think there’s probably this relationship where the more that you’re on the inside and the more I love you if that person is, I don’t feel, as at that level with me, then I’m out.
0:42:04 – Speaker 2
What if the person that you are is in your inner circle is the person who’s wrong? Oh, that never happens. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. Just thank you for that. Okay, all right, thank you for that contribution.
0:42:18 – Speaker 1
Great, okay. No, so that doesn’t happen. I don’t hang out with idiots who do things wrong. So if you and Mark are in an argument and you’ve done something wrong, then from an empathy standpoint, I will try to help you understand where Mark is coming from. And also, many things are not that clear cut to me, because I can understand why you responded the way that you responded.
Even if it didn’t feel right or even if it wasn’t quote unquote the right response, I can still really empathize with the fact that, well, you were doing that because you were protecting me or you were doing that because you have so much going on in life right and when I can approach it from that area, you’re better able to hear it, and then my job is to help Mark understand why you weren’t in a place too right.
0:43:11 – Speaker 2
That’s a really good point. So, that’s a really good point. It’s hard for me to think about a time, so it’s a relationship oriented Absolutely.
0:43:18 – Speaker 1
I mean everything for me feels relationship oriented right. It’s very rare for me to feel like someone has done something without some type of purpose associated with it. It’s the degree of which I’m willing to entertain that purpose.
0:43:33 – Speaker 2
And if I?
0:43:33 – Speaker 1
love you and if you’re in my inside I’ll entertain that all day. Yeah, almost to a fault.
0:43:38 – Speaker 2
Yeah, that’s on the other side. Oh, oh okay.
0:43:41 – Speaker 1
Right, right. So if you hurt someone, I care about done. Okay, done, unless you’ve redeemed yourself.
0:43:49 – Speaker 2
Well, yeah, I think you’re always good for people opportunities to redeem, but you gotta come back hard.
0:43:53 – Speaker 1
Oh yeah, yeah yeah, I mean, we’re talking like a letter. You should take me out for tacos. You probably need to say to me hey, aaron, I’d like to own my contribution to what went down here. You start any conversation like that, I’m in, I’ll buy you lunch, right, right.
0:44:11 – Speaker 2
I’d like to own my derailing of the conversation today. Thank you, because I want some tacos.
0:44:16 – Speaker 1
Thank you, thank you. Thank you so much. You’re in, you can go get your tacos, all right, no trouble with empathy boundaries. So there’s two other things that I have here. If you have tried, if I have tried, and I don’t feel like you’re making progress, or I feel like you just keep failing, there will come a time where I will use my favorite phrase I believe people can change, but I don’t have to be a part of that change process, and that, for me, is an energy commitment.
0:44:47 – Speaker 2
Oh yeah.
0:44:48 – Speaker 1
And you can relate with that one. Oh, oh, that’s long Session slash episode. We talked about that. We were talking about how you will give people just a certain number of chances and then you’re done.
0:45:01 – Speaker 2
Which is why I wasn’t successful in student development a student development role.
0:45:07 – Speaker 1
Oh yeah, right, these young 18, 19, 20 year old kids learning for the first time and you’re like, well, you screwed that up one too many times Come back when you get your act together.
0:45:17 – Speaker 2
How about?
0:45:17 – Speaker 1
that yeah right. Student development was probably not the place for you?
0:45:21 – Speaker 2
It was not.
0:45:22 – Speaker 1
That it mm, mm, yeah, hindsight, hindsight, yep. And then the last one I have here that I have no trouble with empathy boundaries is if you lack accountability, mm. I cannot stand people who lack self-awareness and accountability. I am telling you you could own the most outrageous thing that you have said, that you have done, whatever I don’t care what it is, and if I feel that you’re sincere and you’ve owned it, you’re back in.
0:46:03 – Speaker 2
I would agree with that. For me too, Really Mm-hmm. But the likelihood the likelihood that human beings, I think it takes evolved as probably too strong of a word, but somebody who’s done the work and is self-aware and confident in their self and can truly acknowledge and own things, those are the people I wanna be around. But I don’t think that that’s a natural thing. To be accountable for your actions, yes, I think that most people think what they do and feel specifically is right and it comes down to their values, so their value system.
0:46:44 – Speaker 1
You don’t think people walk around all the time thinking to themselves ooh, I know I really screwed that up, but I can’t own it?
0:46:50 – Speaker 2
Yes, I do. I do think people think, ooh, that doesn’t feel good. I mean, unless you’re a narcissist? I do think that, yes, but I think that nobody ever wants to look bad, nobody ever wants to look unpolished, nobody ever wants to look uneducated, nobody ever wants to look like anything. And so they put on this because it’s embarrassing.
0:47:13 – Speaker 1
To who them. So we’re more fearful about the embarrassment than we are about righting the wrong.
0:47:23 – Speaker 2
I don’t, I can’t relate to that, but that’s what I think.
0:47:27 – Speaker 1
0:47:28 – Speaker 2
All day long. I’m like ooh, even in a staff meeting I’m like I just said something and I shouldn’t have said that. I’m really sorry if I offended anybody, but you’ll say that.
0:47:36 – Speaker 1
Yes, that’s the thing You’ll say. Hey, guys notice the shift in the room right now and I want to really own that fact that I said. Whatever I just said there probably was not the right way to say that, Right, right?
0:47:48 – Speaker 2
Or is it my translator? Right right, right, exactly, but I don’t think. But honesty is not necessarily. I do think that people sometimes think things through and are like ooh, that didn’t feel good, I probably shouldn’t have done that. But I don’t think that they acknowledge it or they go that deep with other people.
0:48:05 – Speaker 1
I don’t think they do either, and that’s the probably top thing that confuses me about human beings.
0:48:11 – Speaker 2
But I think it’s because we should ask people who act like that. We should ask them because I’m not embarrassed. Yeah, I mean, I got called to the carpet for speaking of student development. I got called to the carpet for my students wanting to do a chicken and watermelon eating contest and I didn’t think anything of it because I have no experience with that. Yet I passed it through multiple levels of hierarchy within my institution and they all approved it.
So we went forward with it and clearly it was not okay. It offended X, y and Z and I was mortified because I never want to do anything that offends people, which is why I went through the channels. I didn’t have to, but I thought this is probably something I should check out and I ended up paying a hefty price for that because it offended a large group of people, and so, of course, I’m gonna take ownership of that. I’m not gonna be like, well, I passed it up through people blaming on them. Nope, I took the ownership. I did what I needed to do. Learn from that experience. Realize that just because you pass things up through the hierarchy doesn’t mean that they all are on the same page either.
0:49:22 – Speaker 1
And. But that’s such a great example of accountability, right, because you were not the only person who had short-sightedness associated with the historical references associated with that, right, but who else in that chain took any accountability for anything? Nobody. So, to your point, they were all like, ooh, we can’t touch that with a 10-foot pole. That doesn’t feel good. You know who we can push that on, rebecca. She looks like the perfect poster child for someone who wouldn’t understand that we’re gonna send her to these trainings, we’re gonna do these things for her right? Right? I struggle with that, yep, where’s the integrity in that? Mm-hmm? Right, but there is very much a part of me that struggles with the fact that people don’t have a tendency to own it, mm-hmm. Or I feel like they’re really out of touch, mm-hmm, or they’re so fearful of the process of owning it and what that will mean for them, right, that they just don’t do it.
0:50:20 – Speaker 2
I agree, I agree, I hate that I will never understand it, because I feel like that’s how that’s the depth, that’s where the depth comes from. You get closer to people.
0:50:30 – Speaker 1
When you do that Right, you right the wrongs, right Reconciliation You’ve righted harm that has been done to another human being, mm-hmm and even if that person doesn’t accept that apology, you’ve still taken care of some of that hurt, but don’t you think that, at least in my experience, people don’t even know how to apologize?
0:50:54 – Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that that’s.
0:50:56 – Speaker 1
And that’s a vulnerability thing, exactly Right, because we’re afraid, just like in the Target example, we don’t know what we’re gonna say. How we’re gonna say it how it’s gonna come out, is it going to right? But we forget how easy it is to start with. Mm-hmm, I’m about to say something that’s really hard for me and it’s probably not gonna sound great, but I’m gonna do the best I can. Mm-hmm, In what life do we start a statement like that?
0:51:17 – Speaker 2
0:51:18 – Speaker 1
And the person on the other side is just constantly negative and nasty. And if they are, this is where the other side of me comes in. Shame on them. Right, they weren’t worth it anyway, I agree, I agree.
0:51:30 – Speaker 2
0:51:32 – Speaker 1
All right. So do you have anything to add to the? No trouble with empathy boundaries. So things for you that you’re like yep, I have no problem being like empathy is done. I’ll give you one example your kids.
0:51:44 – Speaker 2
Yeah, I was just gonna say with my children, so I don’t have a lot of empathy when it comes to poor behavior. Mm-hmm, I don’t have, not that I won’t listen or not that I won’t try to understand where they’re coming from, but reality is your child, there’s expectations. This is how you need to be. Period, same with yeah, there’s disappointments in life. I don’t have a lot of empathy for that. I mean, I do in the sense of yeah, I’m sorry that you’re going through this, but I also feel it’s very important to go through those kinds of things and it’s okay as a parent or an adult or a sibling or a best friend. Making that hurt disappear is not always the best for growth, in my opinion.
0:52:38 – Speaker 1
0:52:40 – Speaker 2
And I’ll give you a great example. My daughters are on a competitive soccer team and my youngest daughter is two years younger than most of the girls on her team, although she’s the same size and so you wouldn’t know that. But her brain, she’s only nine. These girls are 11. Her brain is not as mature as these other girls. Her skills are not as matured. Does she have the capability? Absolutely. Does she showcase that all the time? No, you only get so many chances to step it up. Just because she’s nine doesn’t mean the coach has to give her a pass.
There’s a certain level of expectations and you either hit it or you don’t. And if you don’t hit it and you are asked not to come back to the team or whatever that’s on you, you were told here’s what you need to do to get it. You know you don’t just get it. And does my heart hurt? Sure, but it wasn’t blindsided.
Blindsided people I do have empathy for, because you know, but most of the time I feel like things aren’t blindsiding, unless you’re carrying or leading somebody on. That’s a very different scenario. But in this scenario, nope, we know what the expectations are. I don’t have a lot of empathy when you know what the expectations are and you can’t meet them. Interesting, I don’t have empathy when you go to a competition or a sports team where there’s a winner and a loser. Not everybody wins, not everybody can be the president, not every, I mean. Come on, everybody has a role and it’s okay to own that role. Some people are better than you, just as a fact. Sorry, you can want to be the cool kid all day long, but if you’re not cool and no one likes you, sorry.
0:54:30 – Speaker 1
Oh my God, this is definitely your category, I mean you’re just my kid’s like.
0:54:37 – Speaker 2
if she ever came up to me and she’s like no one likes me, I’m like, yeah, what’d you do? Do you annoy them? Oh my God, do you give them dirty look? Do you say something inappropriate? What did you do? Why don’t they like you?
0:54:48 – Speaker 1
Would you say that to my kid too? Yeah, and then he’d probably cry. He would cry, and then.
0:54:53 – Speaker 2
I’d be like clearly there’s a problem.
0:54:56 – Speaker 1
Do you want to know why nobody likes you?
0:54:58 – Speaker 2
I’d say what did you do? And then I want them to assess that and if they’re like nothing I was being kind, I was doing whatever and I’m like, okay, well, if that’s really true which we know with my kids there’s no way Then maybe you gotta try to find people on your level. I don’t want to tell you I will never force my kids to be friends with anybody. That’s the other thing. You have to be kind to everybody, but you certainly do not to be, you don’t need to be close with everybody, meaning like that whole concept of you have to invite everybody from the, from the your class to the birthday party. Absolutely not.
I don’t like half those people in the class, absolutely not. Why would I want you at my birthday party? Because that’s an expectation? No, here’s what I do. So who would you like to come to your birthday party? These people, great, you’re not going to have a conversation with them. I am with the parents and say, because we don’t want to hurt people’s feelings, you’re invited to the party, but they’re not and you’re going to keep it quiet. I just I don’t believe it. I don’t believe that everybody should be included. So I don’t have empathy for that.
0:56:08 – Speaker 1
It’s just so clear to me that your no trouble with empathy boundaries comes from a place of your own values, of what you think is right or wrong, and also, as we talked about before, it does come from a place of I set those boundaries because I care, yes, right, and it’s clear to me that I’m wondering if mine is the same. It doesn’t feel the same, it doesn’t feel like my empathy, my empathy boundaries, I guess, are much more personal to me, right? I guess they’re, with my values. Accountability, honesty, self-awareness is really important to me. But does it come? Yeah, I guess it does come from a place of I just care so much.
0:56:56 – Speaker 2
Sure Right I do Sure. Your fuse is just longer, or your spectrum or whatever, or your inclusivity, where mine is very much like, but yours is consistent.
0:57:08 – Speaker 1
Yes, it’s not like if you’re super stressed you have less empathy. You start from a place of less empathy and more boundaries, and it’s not the case that if you’re on vacation and completely relaxed, that you’re like you know what I’m going to do, I’ve got some more room for empathy for some people. Right, it’s, you’re just consistent. Yes, and mine ebbs and flows with my own internal state. So the example of my glass is too full. I have to reign in the empathy is also because I don’t want other people. I don’t want to lead other people to a place where I’m like, hey, I can be there for you empathically and then I have to drop them because, I don’t have enough time, right.
So that whole concept, I think, is really interesting, associated with my internal state and yours is just more consistent across the board. You have much more clear boundaries on your empathy boundaries and mine ebbs and flow. That’s a good point, all right. So we’re going to have to table the second part of this dark side of empathy conversation until our next episode. Good, because I don’t want to talk about the second part.
Okay, okay, that’s good, that’s good, the second part being where do we have trouble with empathy boundaries? Yep, I’m going to talk about it.
0:58:35 – Speaker 2
Why. Because you’re not sure what’s on your list, or you’re afraid there’s nothing on your list, or to have feelings.
0:58:41 – Speaker 1
Yeah, okay, so that’s going to be. Our next episode is the second part, part two, of where we have trouble with empathy boundaries. I got a long list.
0:58:50 – Speaker 2
I bet you got a long list over here. I got one thing that’s in trouble.
0:58:54 – Speaker 1
I know right and maybe that’ll give you some time to think about what would be on your list. Let’s see how well you do. So we’re going to end like we always end with an empathy problem. Okay, please pick a number between one and 13.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, okay, okay, empathy problem. Please tell me if you ever have this experience. Okay, I am on the Facebook, okay, and I have to find an emoji that appropriately fits the situation. Okay, I have both two emojis, okay, and they’re what? The middle finger, and then does that have the bam sign? Wow, they’re either a heart, or the crying face.
0:59:35 – Speaker 2
Oh okay, Not crying like sad, but like I’m dying, Like laughing so hard. I’m dying. What color heart Red.
0:59:42 – Speaker 1
Oh, wow, okay.
0:59:44 – Speaker 2
There’s different colors.
0:59:45 – Speaker 1
Absolutely. There’s a whole array of them now.
0:59:48 – Speaker 2
You and I do have a secret emoji that no one will ever know of.
0:59:51 – Speaker 1
0:59:52 – Speaker 2
No, we do have a secret emoji and they will never guess it.
0:59:55 – Speaker 1
You do use that one, but, and you send it to me, only to me, and you send it in like batches of 20. So, mm-hmm, empathy problem finding the perfect emoji for a situation. I’ve been known to spend 37 minutes making sure that I have the appropriate emoji.
1:00:11 – Speaker 2
Okay, and does anyone care or notice? I don’t know.
1:00:15 – Speaker 1
My guess is no, I would hope so if I spend that much time on it. Right, but I can’t. Just, I have scrolled through the emojis. I can tell you what order they’re in. I can tell you when the bacon comes up. I can tell you all of the things.
1:00:27 – Speaker 2
There’s a bacon emoji Absolutely, See.
1:00:29 – Speaker 1
I don’t know these things because I don’t care about any of that, and it’s important to me that we have chosen an emoji that effectively represents the situation that either I’m experiencing or that I’m commenting on, and so there are times where I will put that emoji out there and I’ll delete it because it wasn’t it. There’s times I will post it and then go back and edit it because something fell off about that emoji. Wow Right. Don’t even get me started with what your husband calls may mace. I know it’s a mace Right Because I got to find the absolute right one for the situation. But there is a lot of emojis out there. There’s some emojis I absolutely will never use because I can’t figure out what situation is the correct situation and the amount of energy suck that it takes from me to make sure that I have the right emoji is next level, so why do you continue to use the emojis?
Well, because I mean, I can’t just write it. Why? Because there’s the image. For a reason it further accentuates what it is. I’m trying to say Okay. So maybe if you could pay a little closer attention to the emojis that I send you in the future, because empathy problem, it took me a long time to get there, okay, okay.
1:01:45 – Speaker 2
I appreciate that. I will comment on your next emoji, you please do. It’ll be something like how long that take you? 45 minutes, no.
1:01:53 – Speaker 1
What I need you to say is thank you so much for selecting that emoji. The reason I think you picked that emoji was for this reason and that reason and you nailed it, and then I will tell you why I picked that emoji and then we will carry on from there. Perfect, but maybe just don’t skip over it next time, like you usually do. I know I really don’t ever acknowledge them. Emojis Finding the perfect emoji Empathy problem. Thanks for joining us. I loved that Me too. Isn’t empathy amazing?
1:02:20 – Speaker 2
Well, we’re amazing. I don’t know about all this empathy stuff that’s fine, I accept you wherever you are.
1:02:28 – Speaker 1
Oh God, I love you. I love you too, and if you love us, please like and subscribe to More Love the power of empathy podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.

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