Episode 109 – Empathy is “The Whale” in the Room

0:00:09 – Speaker 1
Hey, it’s me, Erin. Thanks for joining us on the More Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside, but the truth is she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Here she comes.
0:00:28 – Speaker 2
Hey, Bestie, Hi love.
0:00:30 – Speaker 1
What are you doing? Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast About what Life? Our life as best friends who are more like sisters? Yay, I love us, and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world, Especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right To be our most authentic selves.
0:00:50 – Speaker 2
Oh man.
0:00:52 – Speaker 1
Okay.
0:00:55 – Speaker 2
Do you see my face right now? Do my hair look okay, because we no longer have the screens where I can see it, it’s totally fine. Do you see my face right now? I know I just stopped looking at you.
0:01:07 – Speaker 1
I cannot what With everything that’s happening right now.
0:01:14 – Speaker 2
I have decided to move my life in here.
0:01:16 – Speaker 1
Are we clear? I am a highly sensitive person and both you and Scott at the same time hit me with all the changes in literally the last four minutes. Super good, okay.
0:01:32 – Speaker 2
So good.
0:01:33 – Speaker 1
So maybe I should start by welcoming everyone to our brand new show.
0:01:36 – Speaker 3
It’s no longer called.
0:01:39 – Speaker 1
More Love the power of empathy podcast. It’s called Rebecca’s Spiritual Voodoo Hour. Okay, yes, because I don’t know what happened here, but you sat down with your bag, I know, like you just went on a massive shopping spree.
0:01:55 – Speaker 2
I saw you take out.
0:01:56 – Speaker 1
First thing you took out was this random. What is that? It’s? An incense burner. It’s a mermaid, and is it burning incense right now? It sure is. You picked it, it’s the green tea tidal wave.
0:02:10 – Speaker 2
I picked it. Yeah, I said pick a number one through six, okay, and I picked the six. So you got like the incense variety pack.
0:02:17 – Speaker 4
Yeah, there’s six flavors.
0:02:18 – Speaker 2
Okay.
0:02:19 – Speaker 4
You picked the six.
0:02:20 – Speaker 1
So first thing you did was you light that thing, and then you took your hand and you wafted the aroma around your head.
0:02:29 – Speaker 2
I asked Scott if it was okay and if people were going to complain and he said no, because it doesn’t smell like Kielbasa, and the people next door burned the Kielbasa. Yeah, that was. I said this is the green tea tidal wave.
0:02:42 – Speaker 1
Yeah, that was the first thing you did, right. Then the next thing you did was you took out it looks like a box of six or seven playing cards that all have oils. Oh, they’re all oils, okay.
0:02:55 – Speaker 2
We’re gonna talk about these in a minute because you need some.
0:02:57 – Speaker 1
Go ahead, that’s good. Yeah, please do waft some of that green tea. Love my way, maybe it’ll distress you a little. And then look how good I look. And then you just hand me this box. Yeah, that has to do with the oils Gems. They’re not gems, they’re crystals. Okay, sorry, got that one wrong.
0:03:13 – Speaker 2
You got a big difference. You got to charge them in the moonlight, what no?
0:03:19 – Speaker 1
So these are mine now. They just sit on my desk here in our new office.
0:03:23 – Speaker 2
Okay, great, if anybody else touches them, they’ll have their voodoo juju on.
0:03:27 – Speaker 1
Now you say our new office.
0:03:29 – Speaker 2
Yeah, this is our case.
0:03:30 – Speaker 1
So why don’t we talk about that for a minute? So very first thing that happened was we walked in here, we go back to the normal podcast site and Scott’s there waving his finger saying no burs, turn around, turn around, turn around, turn it off.
0:03:45 – Speaker 2
Turn it around, turn around.
0:03:48 – Speaker 1
And we turned around and then we walked into the abyss.
0:03:53 – Speaker 2
We are in like New York City, boho. You know those offices that you can like, rent and you get inspiration from. That’s what it feels like to me.
0:04:02 – Speaker 1
Oh, like you know what I’m talking about. Communal work environment, yeah, but it’s not communal because there’s no one else.
0:04:07 – Speaker 2
Oh, we’re not going to let anyone else. No, no, no, it’s not communal. Okay, yeah, okay, it’s just ours.
0:04:11 – Speaker 1
Oh, I see, Nailed it, I see so good. Scott, how long did it take you to pull this beauty together?
0:04:20 – Speaker 3
Oh, that’s a. I was here very late the other night.
0:04:24 – Speaker 1
It had to have been more than one night.
0:04:26 – Speaker 3
Yeah, I’ve been doing it over the course of a couple of weeks, but last night no, it wasn’t last night. Two nights ago I was here till about 1230.
0:04:36 – Speaker 2
17 hours, let’s, let’s paint the picture. Okay, he built walls that are brick. Yeah, well, individually put those brick and mortar walls. Yeah right, that’s what took so long.
0:04:46 – Speaker 1
Yeah right, Yep, yeah that looks slanted on that mortar by himself. He has up lighting.
0:04:52 – Speaker 2
He has up lighting. He has regular lighting. What does up lighting mean?
0:04:55 – Speaker 3
Oh my God it’s lighting that points up.
0:04:58 – Speaker 2
Wow, right, there is the up late guys. Oh, you see the blue. That’s for effect. Yes, and you can change the colors, I bet. Yeah, oh, excuse me. Oh, would you coordinate with Scott? I didn’t, but I’m pretty impressed if he did the by himself. Wow.
0:05:14 – Speaker 1
Oh, oh, red blue, I’d like some pink. Yeah right, that’s not.
0:05:21 – Speaker 2
What else we got in here. Look at the plant. Is this a real plant? Yeah, because we all know I need my plants. Are you love your plants? And it’s right near me?
0:05:28 – Speaker 3
That actually is a real plant. It’s the only one that’s real, I love it, it’s perfect, it’s great.
0:05:33 – Speaker 1
The fake ones are for me, and there’s it’s just the ambiance, it’s just this is, this is right behind your head. I guarantee you, scott put this up just for us. It’s a sign that says all of me loves all of you. You know he found that it Kirkland’s he did. He was like get that one.
0:05:55 – Speaker 2
I’m pretty sure, in my wallet there’s a picture, an old picture of us that I can just take out and just clip it up?
0:06:01 – Speaker 1
Would he die? Would he die? You know who would? The other podcast people who work in here.
0:06:07 – Speaker 2
It’s the exact same scenario when you created a wedding wall in your home of all of the people in your family that are married and I help you put it up, and then, when you went to somewhere, I took one of the pictures out and put me and my husband in it.
0:06:21 – Speaker 1
Yeah, you took out my husband’s grandparents like their old wedding photo and you replaced it because I thought it was.
0:06:28 – Speaker 2
I thought it was the one the frame came with. Yeah right, cause it was such an old time photo.
0:06:33 – Speaker 4
It was like a. You didn’t realize that it was his grandparents who were married for 80 years.
0:06:37 – Speaker 1
You know that.
0:06:38 – Speaker 4
Put me in felt there too and felt I don’t think you’ve noticed that for a while.
0:06:42 – Speaker 1
No, I did not. No, I did not. That was a good day when I found that one out, so I have to say huge props, scott. It looks absolutely beautiful in here. You did a really, really nice job. There is one correct answer to this question, scott, and the answer is yes. I’m just going to prime you with that. Okay, you made this for Rebecca and I, I knew it, I knew it, and so you like, just let some other people come in here if they absolutely have to, but really this is the more love podcast space.
0:07:18 – Speaker 4
Okay, that’s great.
0:07:19 – Speaker 1
Okay, scott did tell us a little earlier that the temperature wasn’t right for another person who was in here and said that she was really thin and my response to that confidence. Oh well, my response to that was going to be oh well, so are we. So it’s probably going to be really cold for us too. Except I’m sweating, except Rebecca’s. Very first thing was you got a fan, so it’s just been a it’s been a week, aaron.
0:07:47 – Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s been a couple of weeks.
0:07:49 – Speaker 1
Well, I can see, because apparently we have all the things. We have that mermaid incense, we have a candle burning, we need to name her right here.
0:07:58 – Speaker 2
Listeners, listeners. If you’d like to name the mermaid, you can write it in our our Facebook group. Yep, she needs a good name.
0:08:08 – Speaker 1
Here’s your chance. Here’s your chance. This is, this is next level. So I’m having all the feelings right now because, as a highly sensitive person, it’s all coming at me at once. Well then, you want to just get it over with. Well, what are we going to do? What?
0:08:22 – Speaker 2
are we going to start with You’re? Why don’t you lead us?
0:08:24 – Speaker 1
today Rebecca. Good luck guys.
0:08:26 – Speaker 2
This is how we’re going to. Well, we’ve already started our podcast with the affirmation cards to set the intention, yes, and then we pick the the Starseeker tarot card, which I’ve already set, okay. But now we’re taking it to the next level and we’re embracing ourselves around the scent of the incense and we’re going to balance and align our chakras. That’s the end of the of the piece and, of course, I have the pencil in case we have questions.
0:08:52 – Speaker 1
Okay, that’s the end of the piece for today. Until next week, when you come in and you have six new items to add to the voodoo shop.
0:08:59 – Speaker 2
This is all there is. So, okay, I’m going to. I’ll tell you what. When I did some hypnotherapy, I learned a lot about chakras and it explained a lot of things. Okay, and you’re all sorts of out of whack.
0:09:09 – Speaker 1
So, I’m going to fix you.
0:09:10 – Speaker 2
I’m just going to say release me, get those chakras flowing. Okay, you already picked. You picked number six Wait.
0:09:18 – Speaker 1
Oh sorry, I’m sorry, that’s your. I’m sorry, I’m sorry, I’m no longer in charge.
0:09:24 – Speaker 2
Go right ahead. I’ll let you know when it’s time to read In fact, wait a minute, I have something for you. Stop, I’ve been waiting to give this to you, it better not be a bra, okay, one of your old ones. So first of all, stop it.
0:09:38 – Speaker 1
This is mine.
0:09:42 – Speaker 3
You’re going to have to take the headphones off.
0:09:43 – Speaker 1
Okay, I’m going to have to bring my headphones. Stop it there we go.
0:09:46 – Speaker 2
You should wear a hat more often.
0:09:47 – Speaker 1
Oh, thank you. Thank you very much, but I also got one for you. I bet what’s it say the servant?
0:09:53 – Speaker 2
The psycho. What’s it say the real boss?
0:09:59 – Speaker 1
So I’m now wearing a hat that says the boss, and I got you a hat that says the real boss, just so we’re clear, as we set the intention and you took over the voodoo shop and everything else that’s going on here today. Rebecca now runs the podcast, so I’m going to wish everyone luck. That’s great, oh you got a long time.
0:10:20 – Speaker 2
That looks really good. Yeah, the real boss. Yeah Good, you need a mirror in here so we can see.
0:10:27 – Speaker 1
Yeah.
0:10:27 – Speaker 3
I’ll put it on the list.
0:10:29 – Speaker 1
There you go. Yeah, can you see, that’s fantastic.
0:10:32 – Speaker 4
That’s fantastic yeah.
0:10:33 – Speaker 2
It looks great.
0:10:35 – Speaker 1
That hair over that.
0:10:36 – Speaker 2
that headphones is really working for you too, that looks good, does it look like the wigs we tried to pick out today? Yeah, the Amazon. Yeah, okay, go ahead. All right, so you picked.
0:10:46 – Speaker 1
Lead me oh spirit.
0:10:49 – Speaker 2
You picked the purple. I just asked you what color were you feeling today, so I’d like you to pick up the amethyst, the purple. This one or this one, either one, yep, just hold it, it’s important.
Thank you, and then I would like you to take the. We’re talking about intuition today. This is the crown chakra. Okay, and I’m going to read the as you’re rolling this on your wrist, rolling oh, I’m not doing that. Okay, I forgot, she hates wrist. She almost threw up. Okay, we’re not going to roll it on the wrist. What about? Oh, can you?
0:11:18 – Speaker 1
stop saying that word.
0:11:20 – Speaker 2
The W. I cannot. Okay, what about I gotta do this? What about the rest of the show? I am not okay. What is this thing called? That’s fine.
0:11:26 – Speaker 1
An elbow, the crevice of your back, of your elbow.
0:11:28 – Speaker 4
I cannot.
0:11:29 – Speaker 1
I am like a T-Rex right now because you said the W word so many times. All right, I am not putting that on my W’s Crevice of your crevice of your elbow, and I’ll do it too.
0:11:39 – Speaker 2
Okay, but I’m going to read to you. So we’re going to balance. We’re balancing our crown chakra because it is either in full effect override or it’s not functioning, it’s an under ride. How do we know we’re going to talk about?
0:11:51 – Speaker 1
it Okay. Okay, my guess is, you want me to put this on my inner elbow, just a little bit, yeah.
0:11:56 – Speaker 2
So the sixth chakra is situated deep within the brain, just above the nose, bridged at the brow level I mean, you do have a big nose, oh my God. I’ll tell that story one of these days. And it’s also known as the third eye chakra. It allows us to focus on our inner and outer worlds and is a powerful center of intuition. Our common sense is help us fairly aware through life, but intuition is a very strong sense to make right decisions. Invigorating the chakra improves clarity of thought and spiritual insights. So what’s interesting to me is, on the way here, I called you and I said I’m all done, I’m all done, I’m all done with everything I’m done. Just, you know, put my head in the sand and you’re like I’m feeling really good about life, and you gave me all these reasons and the whole time I’m just shooting you the dirty eye in the car because, of course, you have your life together. What?
else is now and it is a little ironic that you picked this one, because you specifically referenced that your, not your body, but your. It’s like the sense right before you orgasm. That’s what you’re feeling right now. Your life is all aligning.
0:13:12 – Speaker 1
And it’s just gonna hit the moon soon. Excuse me, we’re gonna need to make sure that we’ve provided some additional context around that.
0:13:20 – Speaker 2
I’m talking about your life. You have a plan. Yes, you, I see things clearly. Yes, you are very confident. Yes, we were not there. No, no, we were, we were. All these parking lots yeah.
0:13:37 – Speaker 1
Oh, we were there.
0:13:38 – Speaker 2
Yeah, it was not good, and if you weren’t physically near me and hours away it would have you know right Hours so you know the fact that you were from there to where you are today.
0:13:49 – Speaker 1
Yeah, Big difference. It didn’t take long, though, but that’s. I’m not staying down for a long period of time, right. I get like in this mode where, for a very short period of time, I’m like, oh, whoa is me, this isn’t good. Oh gosh, this is going to be so hard. And then something clicks in me and I’m like move, move, we’re doing this. And then all the things Come together.
0:14:10 – Speaker 2
And then it just all comes together and things align. So what’s cool about this is, for me, when you pick intuition. It didn’t surprise me at all Because for me, that out of all these chakras which we’ll learn over a course of time, for you feels like the most in line and most balanced. And that’s where I come to you for sound advice and, whether it’s positive or negative, you give me, because you always your gut is dead, not gone, always. Sometimes it’s hard to hear, sometimes it’s hard to talk about, but because I have such that trust and confidence in you and experience, I can learn a lot. So what I’m thinking is you really pick this for me Because I need to be more confident in myself and I need to be more confident in my own abilities, my own intuition and follow my gut and not continue to go ostrich. So maybe that’s what this is. So you’re holding that Because then you’re going to give me that energy later and we’re just going to when I pass this to you.
0:15:08 – Speaker 1
I know something’s going to happen in the earth. I think I’m going to get zinged. I know You’re going to get zinged. That incense is going to just light on fire.
0:15:16 – Speaker 2
So here’s what’s going to be really interesting, because you already picked your afferbation card and I already picked our tarot card, so let’s see if it’s all a lie. Oh, it absolutely is. Wait till I read this to you. Ok, because I haven’t read mine yet.
0:15:26 – Speaker 1
This is for you as well. This is not for me. You’re going to know immediately. It’s not for me, it’s for you. Am I going to cry? Oh god, you’re going to throw your hands up and you’re going to say oh my gosh every time.
0:15:36 – Speaker 2
Do you smell that? Smell your pit, my pit, where you put the oil. Oh, do you smell that?
0:15:42 – Speaker 1
Yeah, that’s nice, right, it’s not great, but it’s OK. It’s not my favorite. I’m not a huge fan of these roll-on oils, but that just means you need it more. Oh, is that what the house can get? Can anybody who takes oils? Oh, but the more putrid it smells, the more your body needs it. Yes, oh, smell it. How’s your smelling over there? Trash can? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha.
0:16:07 – Speaker 4
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha.
0:16:10 – Speaker 1
The more you need it. You’re like a diaper genie. Ha, ha, ha ha ha ha.
0:16:19 – Speaker 4
Oh my god, OK, you ready for this?
0:16:22 – Speaker 1
I mean it should be Bullet trigger, pierce Bullet trigger pierce OK ready. Yep, I’m on my own path. I know that comparing myself to others only derails me from my purpose. There it is, there it is, and you know that’s for you, because I don’t compare myself to anybody. I’m like move, bitch, and get out the way. Ha ha, ha, ha, ha ha, get out the way. I don’t compare myself to anybody. Move it, I’m moving.
0:16:53 – Speaker 2
Next OK, ready, ace of Cups. It is a Jesus chalice, ok.
0:17:00 – Speaker 1
With an eyeball in it, the evil eye, and I’m wearing my evil eye, yeah, which is also the eye of intuition.
0:17:05 – Speaker 2
OK, and it’s the ace Ace of Cups.
0:17:08 – Speaker 4
OK.
0:17:11 – Speaker 2
I got to make full copies of this.
0:17:12 – Speaker 1
Oh my gosh, that’s not good. Do you need me to read that?
0:17:15 – Speaker 2
This overflowing chalice is a blessing and an offering to you, an offering of love, unconditional and limitless. Will you open your heart to the love that is seeking you? Will you reach out and accept the love that’s trying to awaken something in you? This card indicates a current or upcoming opportunity for emotional and spiritual fulfillment. Perhaps you have a new love entering your life, a new best friend.
0:17:36 – Speaker 1
Well, screw that shit. Ha ha, ha, ha ha. Ok, guess what hippie shop? We’re done. We’re close, close.
0:17:45 – Speaker 2
We’re not. It is close. Get out the way. Get out the way.
0:17:50 – Speaker 4
Ha, ha, ha, ha ha.
0:17:53 – Speaker 1
I told you I don’t compare myself to anyone. So good luck to that sleaze bet. Ha ha, ha, ha ha. You know what? You know what. Good luck to you, new bestie. You have no clue what you’re in for, because you’re about to have some incense intuition roll on your inner elbow pits, so you know what. More power to you it is give me a break.
0:18:20 – Speaker 2
Yeah, she will not.
0:18:21 – Speaker 1
She will not.
0:18:24 – Speaker 2
You’re encouraged to keep your eyes and your heart open to unexpected love. Trust your heart in all matters at this time. Follow whatever attracts you and whatever sparks your light. Practice giving and receiving love from a place of compassion and openness at this time. Doing this will help you align this with your potential gift of love. It can also be asking you to get in touch with your emotions and tap into your truth and seek what your heart really wants.
Now is the time to express your true feelings, even if it’s fair. That’s really interesting because some major things have happened in my life in the past five days which has really sparked up some serious emotions for me and some soul searching, Some, a lot of soul searching. And what did I say to you the other day? I said, you know what, Instead of being sad and I mean I’m sad and heartbroken, but at the same time, part of me is like it had to happen this way, because I would never have made any different changes, for many, many, many different reasons. But sometimes the universe you know what it’s so cliche, right, when the door closes, another one opens. That is so, so true. And because I feel so emotionally supported and on this journey with you. I had such a different reaction this time than I have in other situations in my life.
0:19:43 – Speaker 1
Do you remember when we were in Oregon and life was not OK? Yes, I do Right. That was just a month ago it was one month ago and that was pretty much the beginning of the bomb going off. And here we are, walking around the city of Oregon.
0:20:02 – Speaker 2
It was the exact same time that the homeless person said to you what which one? The one that said I can’t even say it. The one that said something about competing in a staring contest. Oh, what did he say to you?
0:20:16 – Speaker 1
Oh he said we were in target.
0:20:19 – Speaker 2
We were in deep thought.
0:20:20 – Speaker 1
We were in target. We were standing inside the target Starbucks. Yes, we were placing an order and a man was pushing.
0:20:28 – Speaker 2
But we were in deep conversation, like you and I. The reason we went to Starbucks is so we could get fueled to have bigger conversations Like these are life-altering conversations and we’re just waiting for our order and I may be staring off into space, because that’s what happens when we’re deep in thought.
0:20:43 – Speaker 1
Right, but not realizing that in the door coming down the wheelchair ramp are two what we believe to be homeless people One who was in a wheelchair with basically a broken foot Right, and I watch him accidentally run her foot into the ramp. And I’m looking at that like that ain’t good Right, that’s not a good thing. And so he continues to push her and I can’t stop watching what is happening. But I’m also still deeply in thought and not fully present, right, and what did he say?
It was something like like stop, you’re gonna, you’re gonna win the, you’re gonna win the. Try to win the staring contest, or something like that.
0:21:26 – Speaker 2
It was an oxymoron, it was something that was so not, and you looked at me like that’s not even possible.
0:21:31 – Speaker 1
Right, right. I wish I could remember exactly what he said It’ll come to us.
0:21:35 – Speaker 2
But yeah, what I couldn’t. And I looked at you and I’m like did you hear?
0:21:40 – Speaker 1
that. And then I looked at you and I’m like he talking to me. He’s, is he talking to me?
0:21:45 – Speaker 2
I know Especially after the Target story.
0:21:48 – Speaker 4
Yeah, I mean if anything.
0:21:49 – Speaker 1
Here we go again.
0:21:49 – Speaker 4
You’re gonna Target again.
0:21:50 – Speaker 2
If anything, you’re gonna go buy them a whole wardrobe because that woman got her foot signed into the door.
0:21:54 – Speaker 1
I know, yeah, I probably was watching her face in complete agony as homeboy runs her leg into the railing. Dude, what part did you miss? The part that her, the part that her entire leg was sticking out Like about to hit the railing. He didn’t even say sorry.
0:22:11 – Speaker 2
I know Whatever Nobody had could say something about winning a staring contest. Yeah, what are you? What are you?
0:22:15 – Speaker 1
what are you trying to? What are you trying to win a staring contest or I don’t know it was. It was like we were back in third grade and I didn’t know how to tend to it, so I just kept going.
0:22:25 – Speaker 2
No, I think we looked at the Starbucks people and said why do you work here?
0:22:31 – Speaker 1
I am rubbing the amethyst off this thing. I’ll tell you what this thing’s going to be clear by the time I’ve done with it. What were we talking about?
0:22:38 – Speaker 2
before that we were talking about oh, how you, how we have such a deep connection and we’re able to have these or again, or yes, when our life began to fall apart.
0:22:48 – Speaker 1
And I said to you while we were walking down the street are we in just complete denial about what’s happening right now?
Or have we really honed in our ability to keep it together, because the whole like around us is imploding, literally. It’s not good, like everything is just not okay, and we’re just like, hey, you know, it’s fine, it’s going to be fine. And I think I said to you talk about intuition, I don’t know. I just have this complete gut sense that it’s going to be completely fine, and this adds texture to the story. This is what is supposed to happen. This is the first time something like this has happened in the course of what we’re going through. And it’s okay, we’re going to be totally fine. And you said I don’t know why, but I feel exactly the same way.
0:23:31 – Speaker 2
And I still feel that way. And what’s interesting is things have changed, but they haven’t. Yeah, you know we’re. I mean it technically got worse.
0:23:42 – Speaker 1
Right, Right, Right. But why are we still like man, it’s fine, we got this, it’s totally fine. Because I had said to someone the other day I’m realizing that 2023 for me is about building confidence to say how many times do I need to throw a huge boulder your way and prove to you that you’re going to either move on time, you’re going to break that thing or you’re just going to basically say okay, I’m going to say move, get out the way. Right.
And I really, I really feel so. How long did you spend trying to get me to see that I could leave higher education, that I could do?
0:24:23 – Speaker 4
something else right.
0:24:24 – Speaker 1
Eight years, yeah, Seven or eight years probably closer to eight, maybe even nine, right, because I was always like I don’t know, I think I could do these things. You constantly were saying you’re going to be fine, you’re going to make it work, like you will always be successful.
0:24:39 – Speaker 2
It wasn’t even about that, honestly. It was about I kept saying to you, erin, more people than your institution need you in their life. And I said it’s nice that you can get up and have a conversation in front of your division. It’s not big enough. You are bigger than this. And then you started doing bigger presentations. I’m like it’s not big enough. Yeah, more people need you, yeah, and I’m like you need to get out of these silos and people need to expose you. And what’s funny is I had a phone call with an old colleague two days ago and she said to me I remember nine years ago when you told me you and Erin wanted to do a podcast someday, and now you’re doing it and she goes. The world gets to hear both of you. And I almost cried because I’m like it’s not about me, who cares Well?
0:25:26 – Speaker 1
I tell you all the time, I’m not me without you. Well, you know. So yesterday, when you’re having a anal leakage episode, I thought to myself you know what? I can’t let Scott down. I’m going to go in. And then I imagine myself sitting here in this new room by myself, looking across at this empty chair. No, you would put me on full blast FaceTime, I know. I would have to Especially, Especially like how can we get to talk about it?
0:25:50 – Speaker 2
Especially if I was on the toilet.
0:25:51 – Speaker 1
Thanks for coming to.
0:25:52 – Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, I know.
0:25:53 – Speaker 1
I know, I know, and you would too, you’re right. So I’d be like, okay, so I’d be like hit the mute button. I’m going to need a minute, right? I’m like what the heck am I going to talk about? I’m going to come in here, I’ll talk about some empathy, I’ll do some things. I’m going to light my own incense Nope.
0:26:13 – Speaker 4
That’s not going to happen.
0:26:14 – Speaker 1
Right, I know. So, yeah, well, the list to say all of me loves all of you. That that’s the moral here. We come right back, right.
0:26:23 – Speaker 2
I am going to embrace, I’m going to remember this For the rest of the week and we’re going to circle back. Okay, we’re going to circle back. Okay, I like that. That concludes our voodoo-joo-doo. Yeah.
0:26:33 – Speaker 1
Voodoo-joo-joo for the day. For the day, yeah, until something else happens, or whatever.
0:26:37 – Speaker 2
Until I got asked a question to the pendulum.
0:26:38 – Speaker 1
Yeah, I see you have some. I have some things. I have some things over here. I’m really excited I got to give you your hat. I know I’ve been trying to do that. Remember when you had your beehive and I couldn’t give it to you Because there was no way that that was going to fit over the beehive.
0:26:51 – Speaker 2
See, sometimes you got to give me some warning, I know. I mean, you never know when I’m going to show up looking like.
0:26:55 – Speaker 1
I know, I know, but today was the day and you really set it up perfectly yeah, right, yeah, when I was like, yeah, why don’t you take care of the podcast? So, speaking of taking care of the podcast, I think there’s something really interesting that we could talk about, and that is the time that you called me and you said I have a movie that I want us to watch, oh, oh. And I said about what? And you said well, I did this search for empathy movies and I need you to come over and I’m going to make dinner.
0:27:25 – Speaker 2
And we’re going to watch this movie together, which I never made.
0:27:27 – Speaker 1
No, I think you made. It Was at the time your husband cooked chicken at like 11 o’clock at night, right, and I was like I am going to pass out if we don’t eat.
0:27:35 – Speaker 2
So I told you, I would give you dinner, but it wasn’t. There was no time frame, yeah right.
0:27:39 – Speaker 1
It’s just pretty classic. That’s usually what happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you say that we’re going to watch this movie and I know nothing about the movie.
0:27:50 – Speaker 2
Right, I just specifically said don’t Right.
0:27:53 – Speaker 1
Don’t look at it Because I didn’t either.
0:27:55 – Speaker 2
I said I just read this article that said if you want to watch a movie about empathy, this is it.
0:27:59 – Speaker 1
Yes, and so I’m going to switch over here to my notes that I took Me too, so I go over to your house and we sit on Big Birth though, which is what we call your couch Big Birth. Yeah, love Big Birth. I get all my blankets set up Right.
0:28:13 – Speaker 2
We tell the kids, sometimes the cats come over.
0:28:15 – Speaker 1
Yes, mm-hmm Right, we tell the kids to scram, yeah. We do not want them here. Mm-hmm, busy Mm-hmm. And all of a sudden you put on your you know whatever illegal TV set. Yeah, and you pull up this movie called the Whale. The Whale, okay, and we’re not talking free willy.
0:28:36 – Speaker 2
No Folks, in fact. No, I’m not going to tell the story of Sawyer and try and find it.
0:28:41 – Speaker 1
Oh.
0:28:42 – Speaker 2
Yeah.
0:28:42 – Speaker 1
Yeah, she did try and find it and there was a couple options, mm-hmm, and because the whale could be an animal. Yes, and it could also be Aaron said do you?
0:28:53 – Speaker 2
Now my daughter, sawyer, is nine and she and it’s like Netflix, the illegal TV set. It’s like Netflix, so it’s got the pictures of whatever. And Aaron says Sawyer just find an obese person. She has no idea what that means. No, so she goes upstairs and she thinks it’s a. It’s a whale with a child. Yes, like a, like a physical child. She goes, mama, I think I found it.
0:29:12 – Speaker 1
Yeah, and she’s because she’s trying to be helpful. Right, she gets it all hooked up for us. Right, we’re ready to go. I sit down and I say I’m sorry, that’s not it, that’s what we’re watching. I’m not sure what that has to do with empathy. And so here in Lies today’s episode as we break down for you in Siskelini Ebert style. In what Siskelini Ebert Scott? Isn’t that the right name?
0:29:34 – Speaker 2
Siskel and Ebert. I heard, siskelini, you’re a siskelini, siskelini, siskel and Ebert. Okay, the people who Thumbs up yeah, two thumbs up one thumbs up.
0:29:46 – Speaker 1
Two thumbs up. One thumbs up, one thumbs up. Yeah, they do like the full on reviews.
0:29:49 – Speaker 3
Oh, yeah, they’re both dead, by the way, but that’s okay, they are.
0:29:52 – Speaker 1
Oh yeah, yeah, were they brothers, what?
0:29:54 – Speaker 3
happened? Let’s see. Siskel just recently died. Maybe within the last couple of years, ebert died like 10 years ago, or something like that.
0:30:02 – Speaker 1
Oh we are out of time.
0:30:04 – Speaker 3
My dates could be off, but yes, they’re both dead.
0:30:06 – Speaker 1
Did you hear about Barker died?
0:30:08 – Speaker 3
Yeah, he, he at 99, he died just like without going over 100. He died as close as you can get without going over. Without going over he went. Him is par for the worst and Betty was.
0:30:19 – Speaker 1
I know, betty, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:30:22 – Speaker 2
God rest your souls, take a minute Way to go, Bob.
0:30:26 – Speaker 1
Enjoyed you, Bob.
0:30:27 – Speaker 2
Yep. Make sure you spay your animals.
0:30:30 – Speaker 1
Yeah, please Remember to Nuder.
0:30:35 – Speaker 2
Spay and neuter your pets, spay and neuter your pets.
0:30:38 – Speaker 1
Thank you, Bob.
0:30:39 – Speaker 2
Thank you. In fact, I’d like one of his microphones, oh Scott got right on that, yeah, right Right.
0:30:46 – Speaker 1
So the whale.
0:30:48 – Speaker 4
Okay.
0:30:49 – Speaker 1
So I’m gonna I’m gonna say, because you know I’m in charge of the social media I’m going to encourage people to watch the whale before they listen to this episode. Okay, so that they can play along with us in the review game.
0:31:03 – Speaker 4
That’s a good idea.
0:31:04 – Speaker 1
I’m going to have to let everyone know that if you’re not in a good place in life, that ain’t the movie to watch.
0:31:10 – Speaker 2
You’re right Also also, what we did not have a conversation about is the fact that the main character, or the actor who plays the main character, is Brandon Frazier, and he used to be like a heartthrob. Remember, back in our days? Okay, you don’t remember, no, oh, yes, he was like one of those really buff, like leading kind of actors. Was he Tarzan? Yes, okay. So to see him play this type of role was a little weird.
For me, it’s like seeing Brad Pitt play this kind of role and so that I had to get over that from the beginning, because I have feelings about that. We never talked about that, probably because we were like what just?
0:31:53 – Speaker 1
happened. Yeah, I actually check out our Instagram page. At the official More Love podcast, we will be posting some pictures of pictures that your daughter took after the fact. The minute that the movie ended, she comes out of the blue, pops up from behind the chair and takes pictures of us on Big Bertha and the looks on our faces is like what just happened there. So again, this is what happens when Rebecca takes control of the podcast.
0:32:19 – Speaker 2
And we had to set ground rules. I said to you, are we allowed to have? We both had notepads, because I knew there was going to be one of two things we were going to have to pause it and have conversations every 30 seconds, or we had to write down everything and then have a full blown conversation. So I had to get the rules and you said we can only you can ask two questions.
0:32:41 – Speaker 1
That’s it and that’s it, and you better use those questions sparingly because you won’t get a third. I know I did. We ask any, and here’s the thing. I like to sit in silence and watch my movies because I’m processing as it goes along and Rebecca has to talk about every single part of it. She is like how come this is happening? What is going on right here? When this just happened, what was you know? And it’s every 30 seconds.
I know, I’m having to stop and pause because I’m so in the zone watching it and you are wondering why, when he’s choking on a sub sandwich, they chose to dislodge it in the way that they did, right.
0:33:20 – Speaker 2
I have a lot, mostly because you’re the smartest person I know and you have all the answers. I’m going to tell you the answer, whether I know it or not. I know, but that’s why I have to ask you. I don’t ask other people because they don’t know it, right?
0:33:29 – Speaker 1
Right, and so I need to be really clear you do not watch this movie if you’re in a bad place no, and also if you’re looking for anything lighthearted, because this whole movie, all two hours and whatever of it, was a complete somber. Yes, this is not okay kind of movie. Yeah, emotionally. Scott, have you seen the whale? I have not, Okay Well well, let’s get on that, Scott.
0:33:52 – Speaker 3
David, I’ve been wanting to. I’m a big fan of Brandon Frasier.
0:33:54 – Speaker 2
Oh, I mean he was great, but I’ll tell you, a little weird.
0:33:59 – Speaker 1
A little weird, so we wrote some notes and then we weren’t really allowed to talk about it after no, no, so where would you like to start? Where are we going to start? You have any good notes? To start with, do you want to set the premise you do Of the movie.
0:34:14 – Speaker 2
You have to because you’re just better.
0:34:16 – Speaker 1
All right, because we’re real clear that, however you’re about to describe, it is inappropriate, correct. Yes, okay, and thank you Wrong.
0:34:23 – Speaker 2
Correct Wrong on the things we’re supposed to be talking about. Yes, exactly. If you want part two conversation, you get on the Facebook and we’ll do a Facebook live.
0:34:33 – Speaker 1
Here’s us behind the scenes of the whale and it’s about the codependency that existed and why yeah.
0:34:40 – Speaker 4
Right, right.
0:34:41 – Speaker 1
All right. So Brandon Frazier is the obese man in this movie who has essentially let himself go after the love of his life, I believe ends his life by suicide.
0:34:59 – Speaker 2
We didn’t find that out. He passed away. Okay, we knew in the beginning that he passed away, but we weren’t sure why or how. We weren’t even sure at the end.
0:35:07 – Speaker 1
Is this a?
0:35:07 – Speaker 3
spoiler. No, are you giving out spoilers?
0:35:10 – Speaker 1
Well, we’re hoping people are going to watch it. I don’t think that’s a spoiler.
0:35:14 – Speaker 3
Me I can’t go anywhere.
0:35:15 – Speaker 2
No, go ahead.
0:35:17 – Speaker 3
Go ahead.
0:35:17 – Speaker 2
I’m just kidding, I don’t think that’s a spoiler, because it’s kind of a theme from the beginning. It’s very they say it right away.
0:35:24 – Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, and how he dies is really important.
0:35:28 – Speaker 2
That’s why he becomes, that’s why his lifestyle is the way that it is Seditary, and I mean, we’re talking 1000 pound life.
0:35:34 – Speaker 1
Okay, I’m not sure if it was 1000 pound and this is coming from me watching 600 pound life all the time I’m going to say he was probably close to 567.
0:35:44 – Speaker 2
There is no way on this planet.
0:35:46 – Speaker 1
Okay, how many episodes of my 600 pound life have you watched? How many of those? People have you seen get on the scale. Okay, so 1000 pounds, I think the number of people in the world who have ever been 1000 pounds and are still living is one.
0:36:01 – Speaker 2
I’m going to Google it and tell you exactly how much he weighs.
0:36:04 – Speaker 1
Okay, go ahead. Continue with your story. Okay, but I’m going to guess this is Price’s right style and you can’t go over. Can’t go over, go ahead, okay.
0:36:13 – Speaker 3
And if you get it right you win a nice brand new credenza.
0:36:15 – Speaker 1
That’s right, that’s right. Oh good, I love that I love.
0:36:17 – Speaker 4
That, yeah, I love that, yeah.
0:36:20 – Speaker 1
So he is an obese man. He has let himself go. He was always a bit bigger, but after the love of his life had passed away he really started to seclude himself and not go out and gain a significant amount of weight. And you find out through the course of this movie that he has had a very strange relationship with his daughter and his ex-wife for a multitude of reasons, and that he has, for all intents and purposes, given up on trying to get help. And he is also a I believe professor or an adjunct professor, and he is a writer, and so he is trying to coach this class from the comfort of his zoom room. You got the answer. It just talks about the suit that he wear the fat suit.
0:37:16 – Speaker 2
It doesn’t talk about how much he’s supposed to being portrayed with what he’s representing Correct, okay, but I also didn’t go down the rabbit hole.
0:37:24 – Speaker 1
I’m not listening to you, I know, I’m sure you’ll figure it out, I will.
0:37:27 – Speaker 2
I’ll with the next time.
0:37:27 – Speaker 1
Stay tuned, yeah right, yeah, if it’s the number, Just put it on the Facebook page, okay, okay. And so it talks a bit about how he’s leading this class, and this class is essentially learning how to write from him, right? So I think that’s enough of a synopsis about what happened, did you?
0:37:52 – Speaker 2
talk about his caretaker. No.
0:37:54 – Speaker 1
Okay. That plays a role. He does have a caretaker who it’s hard to tell. One of the things we can process is if she’s just a really caring, supportive person or if she’s enabling him in some way, and the difficulty that she plays, but the relationship is it was his partner who passed away sister, so they had established a relationship prior.
0:38:17 – Speaker 2
Mm-hmm, yeah, so that does play a role. And then, yes, that’s pretty much the premise. Oh, no, the premise is actually they start the show off because he said or the movie, they start the movie off. He’s in such bad health and his quote unquote caretaker, sister-in-law, whatever, she’s also a nurse or some sort of actual caretaker, and he’s going into cardiac arrest, congested heart failure, and she says to him if you don’t go to the hospital and you don’t start getting help and care, you will die in one week. So the entire movie is that week of him taking place over one week. Yes, and he refuses, refuses to engage in any sort of help beyond her Mm-hmm.
0:39:12 – Speaker 1
And he said I’m not going to the hospital, no, I’m going to be staying here, right? This is exactly what I’m doing, right, right, so that’s yes, yeah, ok. So if you haven’t seen the movie now, you have Right Congratulations. I mean, a lot happens in those days. I know, I know. So one of the first things that I have written down is the choking scene when he’s choking on the sub. So he’s a very, very large man, right.
And he’s sitting on this couch and he starts to choke, and the caretaker can tell that he’s starting to choke. But how are you going to move a 567-pound man to do the Heimlich Right? So she’s smart and she uses, puts him sort of like leaning up against the side of the couch and tries to dislodge it and ends up getting the food out.
0:40:01 – Speaker 4
Right.
0:40:01 – Speaker 1
So it’s this pretty intense moment where you’re like OK, this man is not going to be OK, Right. And then I noticed in that moment that within a couple of minutes she starts to have both a really tough love approach to like come on, why are you doing this? Why aren’t you chewing your food? She’s so angry, she’s so incessant about why are you doing this to yourself? And then very slowly she softens into this place where she literally just hands him the rest of the sub and then sits down next to him and like sort of leans into him. So one of the first things I had wrote down was the difference between this tough love versus this care approach and this resolve approach, and how both of them were so beautifully held together at that part of the movie.
0:40:50 – Speaker 2
For me, I keep trying to go back to. Did we know their relationship at that point, or did we just know she was the caretaker? We just knew she was the caretaker.
So, you’re right. I was a little bit confused about has she just been with him so long and has just, you know, your natural relationship forms, whether it’s a client or not. But then I thought there’s got to be something more to this. Maybe it is his sister, maybe, I mean Because of how she responded yes, oh, interesting, because I don’t know. If a true, I don’t know, I’m not in that field If you truly have a certified caretaker, I’m not sure that they are allowed to let those kinds of things happen.
0:41:35 – Speaker 4
So again, I have a lot of questions I want to ask you about the health care.
0:41:38 – Speaker 2
The specifics.
0:41:39 – Speaker 1
Yes, I’m like I need to know what type of insurance are they allowed to pay for? Right, is that caretaker? Are you?
0:41:45 – Speaker 2
allowed to just give him whatever he wants.
0:41:49 – Speaker 1
Right, he wanted a meatball sub. Can you give him a meatball sub?
0:41:52 – Speaker 2
Right Like.
0:41:53 – Speaker 1
I absolutely love. Those are the questions that you’re asking. This man is in an absolute like bad place. And here I am like wow, look at the tough love and look at the care and the resolve and how they were both held so beautifully. And you’re like was that meatball or turkey? No, I was like why I think it was the meatball sub. What Down wrong? I cannot. It’s incredible. Maybe you should have taken a smaller bite. Why isn’t someone cutting that up for him? That’s exactly what I thought.
0:42:24 – Speaker 2
I’m like why didn’t she?
0:42:25 – Speaker 1
We should put that in a blender, we should be drinking that meatball sub. This is exactly what you’re thinking and, again, this is why I allowed you to have two questions and why you are not going to be stopping it.
0:42:37 – Speaker 2
I wasn’t worth opening my mouth to that question, right, I knew there were better things coming. They’re not usually.
0:42:43 – Speaker 1
So OK, I just point that out.
Ok, so in this moment, if we can go away from the meatball sub and focus more on the tough love and the care and resolve, a lot of what was coming up for me is in the work that I’ve previously done in terms of addictions that I see both of those being held so clearly for people who are struggling with addiction.
Your best example of that is the show Intervention right, when people will sit down and they will all write their notes and they will say things like if you continue to do this, this is what I’m going to continue to do. Right, that is a very standard, a very common way of setting boundaries and letting the individual know that this is how I’m going to respond. I would put that in the tough love category, right. The care and resolve perspective is another way of working through addiction, which is essentially seeing the person who’s struggling with addiction as someone who needs the most love you’ve ever provided to another human being ever, because they feel, fill in the blank, so worthless, so sad, so past experiences that have just been so difficult and traumatic for them to go through.
That the reason that the usage is occurring and in this case it’s food addiction right is because of this incredibly low place of not being able to connect with something bigger than that sorrow and that pain that they’re experiencing. And so the care and the resolve in that level is I see that you are struggling with addiction and I’m going to lead with more love. I’m coming in with more and my boundaries are not going to be strong because love doesn’t have those boundaries. Love is recognizing that you’re at this really terrible place and for me that was that approach of not only the handing of the sub right, which is sort of like saying OK, I see you, we’re not going to do anything about this in this moment.
I wish that it wasn’t this way, right. But when she sat down next to him and leaned in to him, it was this incredible resolve of I’m here with you. And really why I’m in this place right now is because I care about you so much. Tough love and care and resolve both come from a place of incredible love and care. It’s just the fact that that’s how we’re interacting with that person is usually stemming from what we need in order to put better boundaries on our own personal reactions. That’s a good point, and in that moment she exemplified both. Yes, so she had her initial anxious, scared reaction that I think happens to all of us, where she’s yelling at him and she’s so angry why aren’t you chewing your food, right? That tough love, pissed off. Stop doing this to yourself, right? And then she softens into a place of I’m just so sad.
0:45:36 – Speaker 4
And I feel so.
0:45:38 – Speaker 1
It’s so difficult for me to see you in this place, because I want better for you. And I just thought it was a beautiful juxtaposition of how both can be present in the same three-minute time span for the same human being so transition that into the first time we see his daughter and his approach to interacting with her.
0:46:06 – Speaker 2
So this daughter is a hard ass. She’s a senior in high school yeah, 17 or 18, I think and she’s failing. What I don’t remember is did he contact her and invite her over or did she show up? How did they get connected? That’s what I missed, probably because I was processing the sub questions in my head. You’re probably still focused on the meatball sub.
0:46:27 – Speaker 1
I believe that she came over, or he invited her over because she was failing in writing and he said I’ll just do your papers for you as a way to try and get her to come over.
0:46:44 – Speaker 2
I also do believe he knows he’s dying.
0:46:49 – Speaker 1
And his resolved to that. Oh, because he’s been very clear I’m not going into an ambulance, I’m not going to the hospital, I’m not looking forward to just continuing in this place that I am in. So he wants to establish this relationship, or re-establish this relationship with his daughter. When she walks in and she’s as hard as hard can be your thoughts on her are what?
0:47:13 – Speaker 2
Hang on, I got to.
0:47:17 – Speaker 1
I can’t remember how she first she came in, oh you remember. So she came in and she stood by the door and he is talking to her and she’s just very cold and standoffish and is like what do you want? Why are you asking me to be here?
0:47:33 – Speaker 2
That’s what it was yes, and then OK. So she walks in and I specifically wrote her daughter so angry and disgusted, specifically, and she says this because you left me and my mom. And he goes. Are you sure it’s not because I look this way? And she goes I don’t care what you look like.
And I thought that was really interesting, because her and trauma was so rooted in the abandonment that she didn’t care.
She just wanted a dad.
It wasn’t even about him and her mom being married and being a family unit, which I can relate to so much, because my dad left when I was little and I don’t want my parents to be married, I don’t want to have two parents in the household, but it would have been nice to have a father figure in my life in any capacity, because you can make any of that work.
And so I could feel that that hurt yes, very, very clearly. And that his guilt came from all of his choices. That even though he loved her and wanted to do everything for her, he still made choices that resulted in an abandonment. And he said at one point he’s like I chose the you know, because she said you, he was a professor. And the story comes out that he fell in love with one of his students who it’s not sick and weird, it was an adult student like whatever. But they ended up falling in love and he left his family for this person and fully engaged in that relationship and completely cut everybody else out, to the point where it was unhealthy.
0:49:10 – Speaker 1
And he never denied that which I thought was interesting.
0:49:12 – Speaker 2
He took full ownership of that he’s like and he has so much guilt, because when you’re knee deep in that you’re not thinking about anything else and then all of a sudden that’s gone and all this stuff comes up. And that’s where I believe the downfall happened, because he didn’t think he could correct it.
0:49:30 – Speaker 1
Her level of hardness for me was classic hurt. Yes, and so often I think we cannot see classic hurt in the form of anger. She was rude, she was mean. At one point she said if you can get up and walk over to me without your walker, then maybe I’ll stay. And there was no possible way you could do that, and she knew it. And she stood at that door with her hand on her hip just being like go ahead. And the things she continued to do throughout the course of the movie were defiant, they were oppositional, they were mean-spirited To everybody she hurt, not just him.
0:50:16 – Speaker 2
It’s her classmates, her teachers, her mother, anybody, it didn’t matter Strangers. She would post really vulnerable pictures of people online for everybody to see.
0:50:27 – Speaker 1
So she took this picture of her father who was standing there obese with his walker, and then posts it online and basically says something completely rude about him, and his response to that was, let’s say that the quote said something like he’s disgusting and I can’t wait for him to die.
It was like that level of rudeness and the dad he sees that because the mom’s showing him and he’s like, well, she’s not wrong. And that part, for me, was one of the crux of this entire movie that you have this young woman who’s 17 or 18, who is hurting so bad, who has felt the sense of loss, the sense of abandonment, has felt neglected, has not felt loved, and she’s acting, not acting out. There is a difference between acting out and accepting the persona of. I’m tough.
And this is who I am, and one thing that I thought continued through this entire movie is that he always saw her for exactly who she was and allowed her to be herself. And that part for me, as angry as she was, as nasty as she was to him, he would roll with it. He’d be like well, she’s not wrong right, that’s what he posted about me.
I don’t think so. I think that to me is pure love, vulnerability and acceptance. It’s self-awareness in my mind mixed with seeing who she is, because he’s seeing through in my mind the negativity and the anger and the resentment and he’s seeing here’s a girl who’s doing what she’s doing because she’s been hurt and we can keep that separate from who she is as a person.
0:52:23 – Speaker 2
What’s also interesting is he. In moments where he’s probably going to die choking on the sub, when he goes into coughing fits, whatever, he immediately goes to this folder and pulls out this essay, which makes sense because he’s a English teacher, right? And he you cannot tell people.
0:52:43 – Speaker 1
I won’t. You cannot tell people where the essay came from. No, I won’t, Because that would be the biggest. What did you call it, Scott Buzzkill? No, I won’t.
0:52:52 – Speaker 2
Giveaway Spoiler alert, spoiler alert. Yeah, but he constantly I’m always writing that. I’m like he’s always reading this essay and it was a reflection or whatever of Moby Dick and it was really profound and really well written. And the entire time I’m going I’m trying to figure out who’s writing it and why it’s so impactful to him. But he’s a teacher. Right, it could be so many people, it could have been his thesis, it could have, I mean, so many things, right, and I thought why is he using this as either a coping mechanism or a transition or whatever? It literally calms him down, it allows him to decompress, it gives him joy, it brings him happiness, or he would say this is what I want to hear if this is going to be my last dying breath, Right?
I want to hear this particular thing, yeah, and so that was really interesting. And when it comes full circle, I thought that was very interesting.
0:53:47 – Speaker 1
I wrote down the quote that she says about the social media or that he says about the social media. So she has this picture of him on social media and the mother is showing him and is saying she’s a terrible person and I’ve tried to get her under control and I can’t look at this picture she posted about you online and my initial reaction was oh my gosh, I can’t even imagine if that picture was online. How raw that would feel and he said it isn’t evil, it’s honest.
0:54:17 – Speaker 2
Oh, that’s right, Because the mother said our daughter is evil.
0:54:20 – Speaker 1
The definition of evil and he said it isn’t evil, it’s honest. That part continued to ring true for me because I constantly am saying I’m just honest with people all the time. It doesn’t have male intent, I’m not trying to make people upset. This is my whole experience working with supervisors who would be really annoyed about what it was that I was saying and I’m like I’m not coming from an evil place, it’s just honest.
0:54:56 – Speaker 2
How come, when people are honest and it’s not always the, you know, sunshines and rainbows it brings across this? Oh well, then you must be blaming me, or angry at me, or whatever. Why can’t we just have honest conversations? Why does it always come back to being an attack? Or well, if you can’t say something nice, then you must be evil, I know.
0:55:19 – Speaker 1
I don’t know. I don’t understand that at all. I do not know, because, in my mind, the more honest you are, the more you actually care about me, right or about the program, or about the energy, or about the experience, or whatever.
And I felt that he really saw that in his daughter, because there were numerous times that she would do things or say things that would just be incredibly honest. It would be hurtful. She could definitely have refined it a bit, let’s be clear, right, but her anger was just having her be so honest and he always saw that in her. He always saw that she was coming from a place of honesty and that she was trying to turn situations around in my mind by her being like who is going to see me and meet me where I’m at? Because in that moment she posts that picture on social media.
What does her mom say? She’s evil. You can’t see through why she is the way she is and what she’s doing. And when he says she’s not evil, she’s honest, I’m like that’s her being seen. And if you can see me at the depths of the anger and the negativity of where I’m at and you can say and without getting upset and offended, right, I appreciate that, I see what you’re saying that’s not evil, that’s honest. That to me is being seen in its love and its respect and its caring. I did not realize until my many conversations with you how rare that is. And here I am walking around life all the time thinking honesty and being clear with people is a gift. It’s a gift they don’t wanna receive very, very often.
0:57:03 – Speaker 2
Very true.
0:57:04 – Speaker 1
Very true and I’m not sure why, Unless it’s positive. Right, because I’m over here, give me all the honesty, because I am very clear that just because you give me feedback on something or you’re being honest or you’re gonna post whatever picture of me on social media doesn’t mean that I have to accept that or own that as my own. Just because you said it doesn’t mean it’s true.
0:57:28 – Speaker 2
I also don’t think that is a value that many people are brought up with you think that they’re more likely to accept no matter what anyone says to you.
0:57:38 – Speaker 1
There’s some degree of truth in it.
0:57:40 – Speaker 2
Yes, because, well, maybe it’s just my own experience but when you start getting enough negative feedback for the same things over and over again even though that may be who you are as a core of a person it just makes other people feel uncomfortable. It is very rare for somebody to say you don’t have to listen to that Again. Meeting you, meeting you was the first time in my life that you had said to me you don’t need to change damn things, they don’t like it, they’re missing out. And I’m like but I’m constantly being told this and you’re like, yeah, well, that’s their problem, that’s right, they’re not evolved yet. And I’m like, oh, my God, I was.
I would make little tweaks here or there, but when I think about growing up, my mom was the type of person who never wanted to make anybody uncomfortable. You show up, you don’t rock the boat, you are polite, you are kind, you are caring, you engage, you read the room and you leave the minute you start rocking that or pushing that, then you make other people feel uncomfortable. So that was the message I got my whole life until I went away and became my own person and then realized I don’t like that version of me.
I want to be who I am. Take it or leave it. But that took 20 years meeting you to have that reinforced. So I don’t think that that’s something that people get reinforced. I mean, even you with your son the way you read, you know your son might come home from school and had a bad experience because someone didn’t like a shirt. And the conversations you’ll have with them, you’re like, well, do you like your shirt? And he’s like, yeah, and she’s like then that’s awesome when you say and I think to myself, absolutely that wouldn’t have happened in my life he died.
0:59:22 – Speaker 1
He died as your green for St Patrick’s Day and he was so excited about it. Then he went there and then people had a reaction to him because they weren’t used to his hair being green.
0:59:30 – Speaker 2
And they were also jealous that they didn’t have it. Let’s be real clear.
0:59:33 – Speaker 1
Sure they’re making all these comments, right? So he comes home he’s a complete bummer, he is not in a good place. I said hey, buddy, what’s going on, right? And he’s like a lot of people didn’t like my green hair. And I said do you like your green hair? He’s like well, I did like it. And I said how come? Because other people don’t like it, we’re choosing not to like it. And he’s like well, I don’t know, I just, you know, want to be accepted or whatever. And I said well, I wonder if there’s a way that we can still accept ourselves even if other people aren’t okay with whatever color you spray painted your hair. Right, that need.
Those conversations started when he was four or five, because I will be damned if he is forever at the mercy of other people’s thoughts, feelings and opinions, especially in this day and age where I hear a whole bunch of thoughts, feelings and opinions and think to myself are you people off your rocker?
1:00:25 – Speaker 2
I know, but that’s my point is, I think that’s why we have such a problem with social media, because people aren’t raised to be that way. And then your keyboard warriors and you’re all these things and it’s like wow, wow.
1:00:39 – Speaker 1
So he very much saw her in that point that went through the rest of the movie and I felt like she genuinely knew that she was seen by him because he was the only person that was accepting her for whoever she was. Right. And now I’m being reminded of the beginning intro of this podcast. Right, or maybe it’s the end I accept you wherever you are right.
You say constantly people feel comfortable with you, you’re a soft place to land because it does not matter what they bring to me. They can bring their nastiest, most angry, most disappointed version of themselves and, as I said about the Target story, the more angry, the more pissed off, the more raunchy and over the top you are, the more I know you’re hurting and I will come in harder, I will spend more time, I will embrace with more love. But what you saw from the mother in that situation, what you saw from the reaction that the caregiver was having to her, is what continues to reinforce these people who have all of these really negative internal, pushing to external reactions, is that they continue to be reinforced over and over again by people not seeing them or knowing who they really are, because it’s a defense to see if anyone really cares enough to see what they’re trying to bring to the table.
1:02:05 – Speaker 2
Because they have a trauma rooted in their root chakra from when they were very, very small. And when you are not rooted and grounded and feeling secure, you will always be off balance. And how do you align? How do you? The chakras go up like this, right when your bottom is off? How can any of these be in line?
So that was what came out of my therapy. Was that I really need to focus on my root, or I feel like your root is really grounded and the conversations we have really bring me back to this and I’m like, okay, okay, yes, all right. And then once I realign it and then I notice all other things start to get back in place. So this has been a really awesome visualization for me, where I can pinpoint what’s bothering me and then I can pinpoint it to one of these is it one, two, three, four, five, six, seven things? And just spend a couple of minutes it doesn’t even take that long and figure out what it is and try to shift it back, either through meditation, through a conversation, whatever, and then I just start to see all this beautiful stuff happen. But I think you’re absolutely right. She just she was flailing and the only way that she fell grounded was to be angry because nobody’s gonna do this to me again.
1:03:27 – Speaker 1
And, just like the example of what happened at Target, people tend to run away from things that make them uncomfortable. And what makes people uncomfortable? Anger, negativity, a quick tongue right those types of things, and I have always, since I can remember, been the person who sees that hurt as a cry for help, and I honestly can’t pinpoint that to anything. I don’t know why that is. That’s a gift, and it’s a blessing and a curse, right, because I can never just allow someone to be where they’re at in terms of.
I mean. This is why we’re as close as we are right.
I couldn’t just allow you to be that intriguing person who pees in the corner of the parking garage and is like I’m not gonna let you get close and I’m not this and I’m like that, right, the people who are incredibly angry.
I can’t just let them be incredibly angry. I see that and it’s like my soul is attracted to theirs and I’m like I gotta help this person, make sure that they’re in a better place, cause you’re better than that. I know what’s under there, right. That’s why, in the addiction field, I’m the more love approach, right that it’s just this sense that I have that makes me run into the target bathroom as much as it makes me go toward people who are in a really dark place and are projecting that to others. Cause once you get to a point where you are projecting that and that becomes a part of your persona, and it’s you at the customer service counter yelling at someone or whatever, you essentially are crying out so deeply in my mind for some connection and someone to see the parts of you that aren’t that outward projection.
1:05:11 – Speaker 2
You just gave me an aha moment. I think also that people like you who are genuinely curious and come from approach, of love and empathy and vulnerability and curiosity, versus people like me who are closed off and coming from a point of judgment I’m not curious, I’m very judgmental about why you’re acting the way you are and clearly you’re off your rocker, right, like you need to get it together. This is not the time or place I become curious. When I feel able to be vulnerable. Does that make sense? And my curiosity is not what I lead with, because then I become invested. And if I become invested then I could get hurt and I can’t do that. So if I become curious, that is a means to an end. So if I just stay in the judgment not judgment as in judgment, like, oh, your hair looks like shit.
I’m not talking about that. I’m just talking about, like the Myers-Briggs, whatever From a judgment point of view or a value point. I’m evaluating you and judging you based on my values and how they’re lining up, and et cetera, et cetera. Does it make you good or bad? Does it make me good or bad? It just makes. It allows me to either break down my concrete gate or keep it right there and moving on. I can bitch get out the way.
1:06:34 – Speaker 1
Get out the way, and I have to tell you that that’s the next episode is us talking about the ways in which that serves people in a really beautiful way? Because I don’t feel that I have that ability and it has really impacted me very greatly in terms of time, effort, energy and ability to let go Constantly giving people the benefit of the doubt. Right, there’s some real negatives associated with that.
And so similar to that tough love versus that care or resolve that we were talking about earlier. I can see why intervention happens and why people say I have to protect against that which can consume right. It’s not necessarily about you as the person, because I believe the person and, in this case, their addiction are separate and I can be angry at that addiction, I can be mad at that addiction, I can talk to that addiction, but I don’t have to be angry and mad at you as a person. But I need to have boundaries against the addiction. But in my mind those two things are somewhat connected with each other. That it would be like I was saying I have to create these boundaries around you.
And for whatever reason that’s so hard? For me and it has not positively impacted me in a lot of ways, so put a little pin in that that is definitely in the next step of the session. So I want to say one last thing about the whale. When we got to the end of the whale okay, cause there’s so much more we could unpack about that so I’m gonna say this is the part that I started to run like hyperventilating.
1:08:18 – Speaker 2
Now we’re not looking at each other. My back is to you. Yes. Because I can’t look at your face.
1:08:22 – Speaker 4
No.
1:08:23 – Speaker 2
Then I will have thousands of questions yes, a, b. I don’t want you to see if I have any emotions.
1:08:27 – Speaker 1
Oh, I know, I know In the whole time I’m wondering is she crying right now? Is she having any emotion?
1:08:32 – Speaker 2
I’m surprised you didn’t get up quote get up, yeah, to shut the blinds or something. Yeah, shut the blinds, or get a blanket or something, just to see. I know.
1:08:41 – Speaker 1
And I was wondering the entire time. And then it got to a point where I was super uncomfortable that if you had looked at me at one point I’m not kidding I was hyperventilating looking at the ceiling to the point where I almost threw up. That’s how hard I was, silent, crying.
1:08:56 – Speaker 4
Why were you silent?
1:08:57 – Speaker 1
crying Because I would have wailed, I would have just, whoa, it just the flood gate sort of opened and I would have just. It was not okay, the amount of passion and energy leaving my body. And it was, at this point, oh God, she one of the people in the movie, I think it was his, was it his ex-wife, it doesn’t matter. Someone said to him do you ever feel people are incapable of love? Oh, and he says people, people are amazing, mm-hmm. At this moment I am, I swear what. There’s this meme of this man who starts crying so much that he just howls. And that was me. I thought I was going to puke. Something you want to talk about Chakras? Something hit some part of me. The love About the. Do you ever feel people are incapable of love? Mm-hmm. And that question for me was like do you ever just give up on people? Do you ever just think that some people just can’t get there? And his responses people are amazing.
Amazing literally, and I swear to God, the fact that I didn’t throw up in that moment from crying so hard was next level. And I’m looking over. I’m like looking to the side, I’m like is she crying? Well, I I’m not experiencing anything right now. She, officially, is dead inside.
1:10:37 – Speaker 2
So I have written here. He said this is the first part of the quote that you did not write down, or did you? People are incapable of not caring. People are amazing.
1:10:52 – Speaker 4
Yeah.
1:10:53 – Speaker 2
People are incapable of not caring People are amazing, so they might turn it off.
1:10:59 – Speaker 1
Oops, excuse me, that’s right turn it on.
1:11:02 – Speaker 3
Like a light switch, they might turn it off. Turn it off right.
1:11:06 – Speaker 4
Moving on to the story.
1:11:08 – Speaker 1
Yes, they don’t wanna talk about it, you are incapable of not caring, Correct, but you might be capable of putting some boundaries on that caring for your own sanity. Yeah, it’s my cement gate and I have found myself absolutely it’s. I’m incapable of not caring and I struggle with putting any and all boundaries around any of it. Because when he said people are amazing, I’m like I feel that way about every single human being in the entire world, except for maybe a couple sociopaths that I’m like really not okay with. But other than that, bring them all.
1:11:44 – Speaker 2
Well, I have the cement gate and you have the green traffic light that never turns to red or yellow. Yep, it’s constantly green, green, green, green. It’s wide open.
1:11:54 – Speaker 1
The door is wide open. You’re all welcome here. Right, that part I swear. And then we get to the end.
and then, like I said, check us out on the Instagram, because we will post some pictures of what happened at the very end, because Then we had to talk about it. In fact, we need people to comment in wherever you comment on YouTube, comment wherever. We need to know what you thought about the very end of the movie, because it was a miss for me, it was a miss for Rebecca. We had a good laugh about it. Thank God it provided a little levity pun intended at the end, but we need to know what you thought about it and we would love to hear your other thoughts on what you think about the way 100%, 100% and I think in the future, if people like these types of things, that we should do Facebook Lives and do movie reviews.
1:12:40 – Speaker 2
Love it Absolutely. Molly love it, or we should have like a running feed, or we should do like a live podcast someday.
1:12:48 – Speaker 4
I don’t know, if that’s like a thing and then, people can like Not with you, it’s not. They can.
1:12:52 – Speaker 2
Oh yeah, you edit this. I don’t know how much stuff you take out, Right?
1:12:55 – Speaker 1
I mean, I don’t I know, because that would also mean that you listen to the episodes after the fact, and that didn’t happen. Did you know that your husband joined our Facebook group? No, we did not. Yeah, he did. This is really nice. No, the minute that he comments I’m taking him out.
1:13:08 – Speaker 2
Well, true, true, you know, I mean he better not be stupid. He joined it.
1:13:12 – Speaker 1
Did he finally listen to the podcast? I mean, that happened. Mark’s on board. Mark listens to every one of the podcasts. Now Stop it. I know he’s not joining the Facebook group, but here’s Phillip. You know, I’m like here we go. I’ll ask him. I don’t know. Yeah, yeah just make sure you know we’re not doing the comments. No, Phillip, or any memes or anything like that, that’s memes.
1:13:31 – Speaker 4
He calls them memes. He calls them memes.
1:13:33 – Speaker 1
Yeah, so all right. So, anyway, hope people watch the whale, and if they didn’t, we just gave an entire thing.
1:13:40 – Speaker 2
So thank you for bringing in the voodoo shop today I felt like that was oh, this is going to remain a staple. You never even. What are these cards?
1:13:46 – Speaker 1
I know we’ll do those some other time. It’s a game. I saw online. I got another one.
1:13:51 – Speaker 2
I got more stuff in my bag. I bet you do.
1:13:53 – Speaker 1
I bet you do, but it’s not the voodoo shop.
1:13:55 – Speaker 2
This is just the staple.
1:13:56 – Speaker 1
I need you to quickly pick one number between one and eight. Six. You already? Nope, nope, you did. This is a quick one. This is my empathy problem. Oh, okay, I went to the jelly bean factory and at the end of the jelly bean factory, jelly belly jelly bean factory. At the end of it they sell these gigantic bags of reject jelly beans and they’re jelly beans that didn’t quite meet the mold right.
Or they like came out with, like like, a little bum jelly bean on the top of the regular jelly bean, or whatever I mean not the flavor, it was the.
1:14:28 – Speaker 2
it was the what it looked like. Oh Gigi.
1:14:31 – Speaker 1
And you know me.
1:14:32 – Speaker 2
I know.
1:14:33 – Speaker 1
A minute. I saw those reject jelly beans.
1:14:35 – Speaker 2
You probably, you probably subscribe on the Facebook when they show you the vegetables that look weird. Yeah, absolutely, I’m all in. I’m all in, absolutely, yeah, don’t don’t reject that eggplant. Right, just because it has a hump.
1:14:45 – Speaker 1
It’s totally fine. So I absolutely am not able to walk past the reject table at the jelly belly jelly bean factory. I sure did buy six bags. I bet you did Empathy problems.
1:14:57 – Speaker 2
Probably still have them in your basement.
1:14:58 – Speaker 1
No, I probably do. I probably do, but I remember I was teaching class and I brought them in for like the last night of class and handed out all the reject jelly beans and I had to turn it into and I bet you had a whole conversation, oh yeah. I had to turn it into a whole lesson about how it’s not just what’s on the outside.
1:15:16 – Speaker 2
And just so we’re clear, everybody in that glass still remembers it Absolutely. I know. I know they’re probably still talking about it, I know.
1:15:22 – Speaker 1
The reject jelly beans. But empathy problems. You know what you do You’re walking right past the table.
1:15:26 – Speaker 4
Oh God, those look terrible yeah you don’t care, You’re like they’re looking at the thing. They’re just totally so ugly.
1:15:31 – Speaker 1
Oh my God, who wants that thing? Yeah, and I like six bags. Put them in the cart, thank you.
1:15:38 – Speaker 2
On that note, yep.
1:15:41 – Speaker 1
I loved that Me too. Isn’t empathy amazing?
1:15:45 – Speaker 2
Well, we’re amazing. I don’t know about all this empathy stuff that’s fine, I accept you wherever you are.
1:15:53 – Speaker 1
Oh God, I love you. I love you too, and if you love us, please like and subscribe to More Love the power of empathy podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time, I love you.