0:00:09 – Speaker 1
Hey, it’s me, Erin. Thanks for joining us on the More Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside, but the truth is she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Here she comes.
0:00:28 – Speaker 2
Hey, Bestie, Hi love.
0:00:30 – Speaker 1
What are you doing? Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast About what Life? Our life as best friends who are more like sisters. Yay, I love us and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world, Especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right To be our most authentic selves.
0:00:50 – Speaker 2
Oh man Okay.
0:00:57 – Speaker 1
We have to start with an empathy problem today. Okay, it happened last night. Last night, yep, it happened last night, and I can’t wait to hear what your thought is going to be on this. Okay, have you heard about the woman that got eaten by the alligator in Florida?
0:01:14 – Speaker 2
Oh, I briefly. Well, of course, you, you were obsessed with alligators I know, it came right up, but I saw something about they found her in his mouth and then didn’t they kill the alligator. Yeah See, I didn’t read the article, I just insinuated all that from looking at her picture.
0:01:27 – Speaker 1
Oh, what do you mean? Her picture Like her arm hanging out the alligator’s mouth.
0:01:31 – Speaker 2
No, they did, like a bubble of her. What?
0:01:33 – Speaker 1
she would have looked like yeah, so much to unpack here. Okay, this is what we’re starting with as an empathy problem, because I had poor Mark talking about this no joke for 45 minutes last night. Okay, so we find out about the alligator this woman gets. She’s just this tiny little bit of a thing. She’s had to be like a hundred pounds. She was so tiny and she got eaten by this like 10 plus foot alligator in Florida. Look at your face, what you’re upset about the alligator.
0:02:01 – Speaker 2
No.
0:02:02 – Speaker 1
Okay, I know you have all the thoughts right now Keeping it, keeping it in, okay, cannot wait to hear Okay.
0:02:07 – Speaker 2
But I did not read the article, just be clear, so you have to give me correct information, or I’m going to make a lot of assumptions.
0:02:12 – Speaker 1
Okay, I’m going to give you the most information I possibly can. Okay, so they’re. They’re talking about how this poor woman got eaten by this alligator. Oh, thank you, Scott. That’s why you go to Rock Fox for the extra production. Scott, did you hear about this?
0:02:29 – Speaker 3
No.
0:02:30 – Speaker 1
You didn’t hear any, okay, good.
0:02:31 – Speaker 3
Good, I’m riveted because I grew up dodging alligators in Florida, so for real.
0:02:37 – Speaker 2
Yeah, so I’m sure he’s going to have a lot of opinions. Okay, okay, go ahead.
0:02:41 – Speaker 1
So basically, this poor woman gets eaten by this alligator and then the first thing they they show on TV is this blurred out spot and like the bottom portion of the screen, and then this huge ass alligator. I’m talking, this thing is 10 plus feet, okay.
0:03:02 – Speaker 2
Big, it’s huge.
0:03:03 – Speaker 1
Okay, so you see this alligator and the alligator’s moving right, like, and then you see this spot which is probably, you’re assuming, body parts of this poor woman, right, who’s been eaten. And then they start talking about how they have to kill the alligator. So I turned to Mark and I’m like why do I have to kill the alligator? Alligators just doing what it instinctually does, right and very clearly he said well, we have to be able to identify who the person is. We’re not just going to reach inside the alligator’s mouth and pull out the pieces, like we have to open up the alligator to find out who the person is. The person’s in its stomach, I thought. So it’s blurred out on the floor. It pieces of the person I’m assuming.
0:03:46 – Speaker 2
Well, then you can get enough DNA from that.
0:03:50 – Speaker 1
Okay, so you’re right, so you’re a proponent of allowing the alligator to live, 100%, really.
0:03:55 – Speaker 2
And can’t you just like put sleeping medication in the the right way. Yeah, and then operation, and then back up.
0:04:04 – Speaker 1
I wondered these things as well.
0:04:05 – Speaker 3
Right, I don’t think that they ever let the animal live if it kills a human being?
0:04:08 – Speaker 1
I think you’re right. Why is that Scott?
0:04:12 – Speaker 3
You know what I don’t know, but I think that’s just the rule I think you’re right when a dog bites and attacks a person. What do they do?
0:04:21 – Speaker 2
They put the youth in either.
0:04:23 – Speaker 3
Yeah, If a lion kills somebody, even in Africa, they go out and they kill the lion.
0:04:27 – Speaker 2
Right. If a bear does it, they go out and they kill the bear. Is that fair? It’s not because we’re invading their habitat, but apparently humans are superior.
0:04:36 – Speaker 1
Remember how I feel about animals I know Are we clear, but we’re thinking I’m thinking to myself okay, so this alligator did what alligators do, Right? When the shark has lived all the first, so many years, it’s over 10 feet and then we’re like gone.
0:04:53 – Speaker 2
So and alligators don’t just run up after people and eat them Well. I don’t know about that part. I’m pretty sure that’s a thing. Because they actually can do that they can, but they have to be provoked in some way.
0:05:05 – Speaker 1
Sometimes, but they’re a little sneaky.
0:05:08 – Speaker 3
They’re sneaky.
0:05:10 – Speaker 1
So okay, so, Scott, you, think that.
0:05:12 – Speaker 3
Is there any more information about the situation? That’s what I mean. We need some more, yeah.
0:05:14 – Speaker 1
Well, that was the first part, was? I wanted to know how you felt about that, because I did have feelings about the alligator. And then I felt bad about having feelings about the alligator because this poor woman has lost her life.
And so then I felt badly about that because I’m like I totally understand that if that was someone I cared about, if your arm’s hanging out of frickin alligator, I’m not the alligator killed too. But what did she do? It didn’t say what she did, which leads me to the second part, because I’m not. I don’t know if she did anything Right. They have this poor woman’s daughter on the news last night.
0:05:46 – Speaker 3
This is like part two An old woman.
0:05:48 – Speaker 1
She was 41.
0:05:49 – Speaker 3
Oh geez.
0:05:51 – Speaker 1
Otherwise known as Rebecca’s age so, and her daughter’s like 23. Okay, so they have the 23 year old daughter on TV and she’s just absolutely distraught. Of course she is Right. So then they start talking about how they’re saying she was, this woman was so kind and she would have given you the shirt off of her bag. And then they start to go into what she was homeless and she would have given you the last morsel of food off of her plate.
And then the news people start saying despite well, then they say her name I can’t remember her name her having this conviction record of having stolen things from a store. And also, you know, there’s this other thing they start to paint this woman in this this really nasty way, right, despite her having all of those things right, she was still a really kind person. And then this is where I went off for another 37 minutes to mark, because I’m like why do we have to do that to this poor woman who just got eaten by a frickin alligator? And now, like what, what is sacred after someone gets eaten by an alligator? We have to talk about the fact that she was homeless. We got to talk about the fact that she had a drug addiction. We had to talk about the fact that she had a past record.
0:07:27 – Speaker 2
This is why she got eaten by the alligator it has nothing to do with it.
0:07:30 – Speaker 1
Why would that have anything to do with it? Just because she’s homeless?
0:07:33 – Speaker 2
No, it’s because she is mentally ill or on drugs and didn’t realize that you don’t do certain things. She did something to get eaten by the alligator.
0:07:42 – Speaker 3
I’m going to, I’m going to interject here Now. I’ve got an article here that’s by the Daily Mail, which take it or leave it.
0:07:49 – Speaker 1
Okay, is it like the sister of the onion, or what?
0:07:51 – Speaker 3
No, daily Mail is the is the UK kind of rag where you know it’s like the inquirer kind of thing, but not as bad. Okay, sabrina Peckham, 41, was found in the jaws of an alligator after being dragged by the 14 foot beast into a canal on Friday. Her formal cause of death is yet to be determined, which I think is interesting, but they said two months before her death she was arrested for trespassing on a county wetland just a half mile from where she was. Stop your faith. So she was not where she’s supposed to be.
0:08:27 – Speaker 2
Surprise, surprise, but let’s paint this picture that this woman was attacked by this nasty ass alligator.
0:08:35 – Speaker 3
She’s like, like Rebecca said, most of the time, if you’re getting eaten by an alligator, you’re probably too close to the alligator.
0:08:42 – Speaker 2
Or you’re doing something like trying to feed it a beef jerky or something.
0:08:47 – Speaker 3
We used to feed them marshmallows.
0:08:48 – Speaker 1
I don’t know why I can’t, I can’t, scott, I’m just curious Is there ever a time where you’re on my side or no? Should I just get used to?
0:08:56 – Speaker 3
it now. I’m on nobody’s side. Yeah, he’s in the middle. No, you might be physically positioned in the middle.
0:09:02 – Speaker 1
I’m the one who reviews every one of the podcasts. I’m real clear who’s side you’re on. I’m just curious Should I get used to it, or are you going to fake it at some point and also be on my side?
0:09:12 – Speaker 3
I think, it’s beautiful.
0:09:13 – Speaker 2
I think it’s beautiful that what he’s on your side, no that you have sympathy, empathy you want to glorify is not the right word, but you want to celebrate this woman because she died tragically, even though it was probably her fault.
0:09:29 – Speaker 3
I have mixed feelings. Like everything you guys discuss, I have mixed feelings. I’m literally in the middle with this.
0:09:35 – Speaker 1
Of course, what part do you feel bad about for Sabrina Scott? Why don’t you take a moment and tell us?
0:09:40 – Speaker 2
that, that she died, that’s terrible.
0:09:42 – Speaker 3
Well, of course I feel bad for her that she died.
0:09:44 – Speaker 2
In that kind of way.
0:09:45 – Speaker 3
I’m not the kind of person that says, well, she got what was coming to her.
0:09:48 – Speaker 2
No, I don’t believe that ever. I agree, this is very sad. But, we need to teach, or we need to properly tell the story and not leave out details.
0:10:02 – Speaker 1
Did we have to? Did we have to? Okay, this is my main point. This woman is now deceased in a very tragic way. God rest her soul. That’s right. Do we need to add insult to injury here?
No, it’s not about that, if I go, right, if I go, and I happen to be high on some type of drug when I go, are you gonna like make sure that the news doesn’t cover? Oh, you know, like what is sacred at that point? Erin Halligan Avery, married 16 times and having 18 children out of wedlock, but she did get eaten by an alligator. You know, like, at what point do we just not have to share why? But what does that have to do with anything is?
0:10:52 – Speaker 2
my point Because it wasn’t just an average person who’s in good mental health and stability, walking on a sidewalk and out of nowhere, an alligator came out of the canal and bit her leg off. That’s a completely different story.
0:11:05 – Speaker 1
But we have to go into the specifics. Why couldn’t we have said something meaning the news? Why couldn’t we have said something like woman, with a past history of some mental illness and substance abuse concerns, unfortunately gets eaten by an alligator, why do we have to go into, you know, the specifics? That sensationalism of the news really got to me.
0:11:30 – Speaker 2
And that’s why I couldn’t let go.
0:11:31 – Speaker 1
I’m like not only this woman get eaten by a frickin’ alligator. They’re talking about her body parts being out of this thing’s mouth, right. Then we have to take the alligator out, which I have mixed feelings about Again, especially if she’s trinketsin’ on the wetlands right, she’s in his space.
0:11:47 – Speaker 2
Yeah, you’re right, you’re right.
0:11:48 – Speaker 1
And then, all of a sudden, we got to add insult, injury. We have the daughter on, who’s obviously in a massive state of shock and sadness, right, so she’s acting like a typical 23-year-old who’s not in a good place. But we love to sensationalize that to make people look, you know, like they’re off their rockers, right. And then we like to then victimize, revictimize this woman who got eaten, for whatever reason she got eaten. And then we got to go through this woman’s whole history, right, oh, she’s, yeah, even though she has this past history and this, that and the other thing.
I’m like do we really have to do that? Nope, can we just have some frickin’ tact here? There is like, does this come down to what we talk about a lot, which is just people’s inability to communicate? You have to be able to say that in such a way that is going to preserve the humanness associated with what happened in this situation. It’s terrible, yes, it is terrible, but we don’t need to re-villainize this person, and because people have so many opinions, then they’re gonna be like, oh, oh, so she was probably on drugs, all right. Well, that’s what happens when you get eaten, right, and that’s a good portion in my mind of what’s wrong with the world today.
0:12:57 – Speaker 2
Yeah, I think there is a way to be quote unquote factual but not sensationalized.
No, I agree with you, but I do believe there should be quote unquote facts. But it doesn’t need to go into dirty details, it doesn’t need to make the person look bad. Yes, you can say mental health. Mental health can be anything from anything to anything. Yes, but my point is that I don’t. It can’t be painted that this was a pure accident. Yes, I’m okay with that. That’s the only thing. I’m okay with that. And she did not deserve it, because then we have a whole other problem.
0:13:28 – Speaker 1
Right, because then we have a whole bunch of fear around alligators because it sounds like they can just come out of the bog whenever they want to.
0:13:35 – Speaker 2
Right, exactly, but it just is amazing to me what happens when we change the narrative right.
0:13:42 – Speaker 1
But even if we say something like woman who struggles with mental health issues and has been homeless for a decent period of time, that immediately creates a picture in people’s minds about who this woman was.
Oh yeah, and then that’s where the judgment comes in, of course, right Cause the story sounds different if we’re like big time CEO of such and such a company gets eaten by 14 foot alligator, right, and people are like what Right, what was that? You know what? I’ll tell you what, from my time in substance abuse, that CEO has done just as much drugs as the woman who is homeless.
0:14:15 – Speaker 2
But we don’t think that it was either the guy who invented or it was the CEO of the segue. He was on the segue and went off a cliff and died. Something like that happened and he was going to create the segue. Either that or he was like a yeah.
0:14:29 – Speaker 1
And it was like Isn’t it, I’m running.
0:14:33 – Speaker 3
That’s a hell of a segue.
0:14:34 – Speaker 1
That’s true.
0:14:37 – Speaker 2
But that’s my. You’re absolutely right. It could be Right. Yeah, we can’t. We can’t assume that because you’re a quote unquote professional or because you are a lawyer or whatever that you are on the open up and absolutely perfect human being.
0:14:52 – Speaker 1
Absolutely there’s. I just think we need to do better and we need to have people who are second guessing when they’re laying in bed watching the story about the 14 foot alligator, like why did we need to go down that path? And there’s so many other ways we could do it. Ratings Of course. Well, you and I just gained a hundred followers from last Thursday’s episode and we ain’t doing anything shady. So maybe we can be the example for people about how you can get some damn ratings without having to oversensationalize everything.
0:15:29 – Speaker 3
So for our next episode, Rebecca is going to stick her foot into a 10 foot alligator.
0:15:34 – Speaker 2
Great, and let’s see what happens.
0:15:35 – Speaker 1
See what happens Right, and I’m going to make sure that I’m going to characterize you in a really beautiful way. Thank you, that’s still factual Thank you. Thank you, but does not also include all your deepest, darkest secrets about the worst time in your life, while your fricking arms hanging out of a fricking alligator’s mouth. I can’t, I know.
0:15:54 – Speaker 2
That’s a empathy problem.
0:15:55 – Speaker 1
My poor husband has to hang with a 45 minute conversation about this alligator and why we needed to kill the alligator and why we needed to talk about this woman in this way and why the 23 year old has to be sensationalized on TV and all of these things. Can’t just watch fricking TV.
0:16:10 – Speaker 2
I know.
0:16:11 – Speaker 1
I’m so sorry. Hashtag empathy problem. So, we started with that today, so at least we got our empathy talk on the way, let’s move on to your voodoo hippie shit.
0:16:18 – Speaker 2
Well then, so my daughter’s in the studio today. Taylor and she had a soccer injury the other day, and so she’s getting used to wearing a boot. So she is practicing walking around, but we let her do some of the hoody, yeah.
0:16:39 – Speaker 1
Her do some of the hoody, the hoody pickin, the hoody pickin today. So, what’s our in sense of choice today?
0:16:48 – Speaker 2
Oh it was the tree of life. You picked that one. It’s tree of life. I do love the smell of it. It’s a green tea, yeah.
0:16:53 – Speaker 1
I tend to gravitate toward those. Did we name the mermaid? Only one person is offered a suggestion Ariel Ariel.
0:17:00 – Speaker 2
That’s it, taylor. Do you have a suggestion for the mermaid’s name?
0:17:03 – Speaker 1
No, she says no she said no, oh, Taylor’s going to come up with a voodoo hippie. Who’d voodoo hippie shit name. I mean I’m all about Shelly.
0:17:12 – Speaker 2
Oh, oh God, I can’t. She says it needs to be scary. Well, I don’t blame her. Ok, taylor’s on it.
0:17:21 – Speaker 1
OK.
0:17:22 – Speaker 2
OK.
0:17:22 – Speaker 1
So thank you to the person who did offer a name. Yes, we do ask all the time for people to participate and nobody gives a shit.
0:17:29 – Speaker 2
Not about that thing, you know At least she did. By the way, in case people are not part of our Facebook, I did put a bunch of information about my hypnotherapist, so Just had to move this. I thought it was going to fall off.
0:17:40 – Speaker 1
It’s fine, it’s fine.
0:17:41 – Speaker 2
Yes, so if you are interested or want to know more, I’m more than happy to talk about it. In fact, I think one of your friends and I are going to have a little sit down. Oh God.
0:17:49 – Speaker 3
You understand it. I asked Do therapists do past lives or regression?
0:17:52 – Speaker 1
She does that yeah.
0:17:53 – Speaker 3
Really.
0:17:54 – Speaker 1
Yes, yep. Oh my God, why don’t we talk about your past life regression?
0:17:57 – Speaker 2
That wasn’t with her.
0:17:58 – Speaker 1
No, it was not with her.
0:18:00 – Speaker 2
It was with the cycle regression we went to.
0:18:02 – Speaker 3
No, I don’t want to railroad your episodes. Oh no, you’re fine.
0:18:05 – Speaker 2
I’ve always had. Postpartum came on super, super, super hard for me, with Sawyer and I, from the moment she was born to this day, still convinced that my husband’s going to do something to her. It was very, very, very still is very vivid for me, and so we did a past life regression and just so we’re clear, it’s not necessarily intentional.
0:18:25 – Speaker 1
It could also be accidental. It’s just this strong fear associated with something he thinks it’s hilarious gonna happen.
0:18:32 – Speaker 2
Yes, like I remember running out one time he was holding her in the kitchen making dinner and I freaking lost my mind. I went in there and I thought he was gonna put her in the pot of boiling water. I remember Dick Sportinggood specifically. He was holding her when she was a newborn, looking at fishing poles, and it’s an upstairs level, and I was convinced he was just gonna toss her over the side To the point where I was on the escalator coming up On purpose.
What On purpose yes yes, and I was on the escalator coming up watching him down in the fetal position screaming, and he’s like what is wrong with you? I mean it was very intense. So I did do a past life regression with her, but we also went to a psychic. It was for your birthday.
0:19:13 – Speaker 1
It was my birthday. Yeah, we went to one voodoo gem shop in Village.
0:19:18 – Speaker 2
Gate Mall. But her reading of me was that I was the one that put Sawyer in a cauldron and burned her On purpose On purpose.
0:19:30 – Speaker 1
Yes, so it’s more me, not Phillip, Yep. And so she said you know, I have this really strong protection of my daughter. Can you tell me where that’s coming from? And she’s like yeah, absolutely, you put her in a cauldron and you burned her to death 800 years ago.
0:19:43 – Speaker 3
I was gonna say cauldrons aren’t like used in kitchen.
0:19:47 – Speaker 2
Oh no, this is way, way, way, way, way long ago, and my past life regression with my hypnotherapist was that Phillip and I had been married multiple times previously and Sawyer was one of our children and he and her were out doing something like this is like medieval times or whatever and he wasn’t watching her appropriately and she ended up dying and so that was through my hypnotherapist.
0:20:15 – Speaker 1
So this psychic shares all of this stuff with Rebecca. She’s in a pure panic and sweat and then, without skipping a beat, the woman turns to me and she’s like I see a lot of success in your future and you’re definitely gonna be retired by the age of 45. Yeah, yeah, oh my God, oh, my God, yeah, it was great. So I’m like like side-eye looking out. You know, right, it was quite funny. Just so we’re clear, taylor, you’ve been my child in a former life. That’s the connection I had with you and I’m sorry that you got the short end of this stick.
0:20:46 – Speaker 2
That’s right, taylor’s gonna be very successful.
0:20:49 – Speaker 1
Ooh, what is this? Smells like? Oh, okay.
0:20:53 – Speaker 2
This one smells. It gets your orange red. I don’t like that. You need it. I don’t like that.
0:21:00 – Speaker 1
I know. Thank you, taylor knows. Taylor knows no W’s that’s what she? Said she knows, yep, you did. You flashed your W’s to me once and what happened?
0:21:11 – Speaker 2
You just got your W’s. Okay, so this is creativity. Oh, all, right. This is the second chakra and it’s located in the sacral area above the pelvic bone.
0:21:22 – Speaker 1
Another pelvic bone. A lot happens there apparently.
0:21:25 – Speaker 2
What do we say? This word is Swahistana. Yeah, swahistana is the nerve center for creativity and sexuality.
0:21:32 – Speaker 3
No wonder, no wonder you’re anti.
0:21:33 – Speaker 2
No wonder.
0:21:34 – Speaker 3
No wonder You’re like dude. He’s creative, smells like garbage.
0:21:38 – Speaker 2
Maybe we should roll it all over.
0:21:42 – Speaker 1
I have a feeling if Mark smelled this too, we’d be like why do you smell like that? It’s disgusting.
0:21:48 – Speaker 2
As human beings, creativity is part of our nature and is expressed through sexual procreation and also transformation of physical or mental materials into something new, using our creative energies. Alignment of the chakra help us lead to a healthy sexual life. Respect our bodies and maintain creative expression.
0:22:07 – Speaker 1
I’m coming for you, mark. Oh, it’s not good. Oh, it smells great. Oh my gosh, can you take this top? I’m trying to see what color orange, right here, the orange yeah, oh, I do not.
0:22:20 – Speaker 2
Oh, I love it, it’s borderline orange.
0:22:22 – Speaker 1
It’s got an orange smell.
0:22:24 – Speaker 2
I feel like this angle is not good today. Is my chair too high?
0:22:28 – Speaker 1
I’m going to bring it down a little bit. It’s not okay. Like, why did you do that? I’m not sure. I’m not sure, I’m not sure. Okay, why did I now have six chins? I? Know, I look like a linebacker. It’s not, it, it’s not good. It’s not good, it’s okay. I got to do the rest of the show like this. So yeah, I just can’t get me a good angle, jeez.
0:22:51 – Speaker 2
Okay, so that’s that. Go ahead, read your affirmation.
0:22:54 – Speaker 1
I am just getting started. I know that each breath confirms that I am alive and far from finished. You need to embrace that I am further from finished than you are. Old Gale. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
0:23:18 – Speaker 2
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
0:23:21 – Speaker 1
The question Okay, I heard a pleasure, but I thought I was going to sit down and tell you one little bit. No, would you like to take a nap, because I still can. No, I want to have a little extra chores. Okay, so I lifted, like this high post a little bit, and it just when I got older.
0:23:54 – Speaker 3
You said as nature.
0:23:55 – Speaker 1
Enough. I love him so much. That little shit you just like totally like all over the place.
0:24:03 – Speaker 2
Tell the story of when you’re in bed and you’re talking about the if this or that, oh what?
0:24:14 – Speaker 1
Oh yeah, tell that story. Oh my God, so gosh, that was at least six or eight months ago. That was a while ago, oh hilarious and because he’s scared of me. I do this thing with Carter, where he likes to play this, like this or that, like pick one right.
If you had to do this, then which one would you do? And so I think he’s the one who initiated it. Yeah, he did. He said mom, who’s prettier, you or Aunt Beck? And I’m like oh, here we go. And so I said you know what, honey, I think that we’re both pretty in our own ways. And he’s like no, mom, aunt Beck.
0:25:04 – Speaker 2
We, peter, put it up for so long.
0:25:06 – Speaker 1
I’m like look at him Like he is dead pan. He is so serious, he’s so serious. I’m like oh, thank you. Okay, Like good night Right.
0:25:18 – Speaker 2
He shut the door, which is so funny, because he’s scared of me. So I think it’s hilarious.
0:25:23 – Speaker 1
Mom, it’s Aunt Beck. It’s Aunt Beck, just so we’re clear. Okay, why’d you ask the question? Right, jerk? Whatever, I got a crack, three of them, oh God, all right, all right, all right, back to our. Oh yeah, where are we at with our intention, our Voodoo card?
0:25:41 – Speaker 2
So Taylor picked it today and I think this is so perfect for her. So she is in ninth grade. I really can’t get these angles right.
0:25:49 – Speaker 1
I am so sorry. You are now so much taller than I am. I don’t like how I feel. Stop moving, god. I’m sorry, scott, like this is not okay. Okay there, okay, good enough. Okay, good, okay, come on, we’re a total luck, I know, you’re not kidding, all right.
0:26:08 – Speaker 2
So she picked this. She’s 14 and in high school and she picked the Page of Swords.
0:26:17 – Speaker 1
There we go. This is where your mother attempts to.
0:26:20 – Speaker 2
This is so small. I’m going to bring in my mermaid ones. They’re so much bigger For sure.
0:26:24 – Speaker 1
At least six different excuses she has about why she can’t rate it. It’s fine.
0:26:28 – Speaker 2
Look how little I mean people. Come on All right. The Page of Swords, A young page, bounds through the clouds, fearlessly at play with his new training sword. He doesn’t truly know how to wield the sword yet, but he can feel the power of magic coursing through the sacred object. He’s determined, moldable and ready to learn.
The Page of Swords invites you to be open-minded and adaptable. This is the time to break free from your usual thought process and consider how to approach things in a different way as you pursue new ideas, be humble and willing to learn. The Page of Swords is determined but largely untrained. He tells you that there is much you don’t know, and it will benefit you to seek training or teachings outside of yourself. With enthusiasm and openness, you will take on your new ideas to great heights. The Page of Swords may embody a part of you or another person in your life, and it will depend on your reading what makes sense to you, and I think that’s perfect for her, because she’s right. You’re at the beginning of your new journey. You’re really discovering who you are as a person.
0:27:27 – Speaker 1
You’re discovering things that make you excited and potentially exploring career paths, and I think career path you’re not exploring getting out of gym class with that boot on your foot. Why don’t you tell that story? I should tell poor Taylor’s over here, like, so what do I do? Just take a zero for Jim. And what was your response?
0:27:47 – Speaker 2
I could absolutely not. You’re not taking a zero for Jim because you have a hurt foot? Yeah, absolutely not. I guess we’re going to go get a foot.
0:27:53 – Speaker 1
Just so we’re clear there’s a bone fragment busted off in her foot.
0:27:58 – Speaker 2
Yeah, she was like well, what am I going to do? And I go well, you’re not going to play soccer for two weeks. Clearly you have a hurt ankle. And she goes. Well, what about Jim? She goes, I guess I’ll just take a zero. I’m like absolutely not, you’re not taking a zero. I go, but at the same time nobody’s going to be like OK, your mom says you don’t have to participate in gym, right. So I’m like I guess we got to go to the doctor to get a doctor’s note.
0:28:23 – Speaker 1
The boots, not enough. Just so we’re clear she walks into gym class with that thing on and the gym teacher is going to be like get out on the field.
0:28:31 – Speaker 2
I don’t know, yeah, but she needs to have a formal excuse, ok.
0:28:35 – Speaker 1
So that she doesn’t have to go out and sit.
0:28:36 – Speaker 2
Anybody could buy a boot.
0:28:37 – Speaker 1
You can buy that crap on Amazon. I’m sorry, I forgot that. We don’t all think like you do, miss Amazon Returns. I’m just saying how can we skirt the system?
0:28:45 – Speaker 2
That’s never crossed my mind once, of course, because you’re so goody-goody you would never do anything bad.
0:28:50 – Speaker 1
Because I probably couldn’t sleep at night, Probably Because I had massive diarrhea. I thought I knew I was trying to get out of gym class with my boot on my foot the first thing I’m going to do is, you know, Sawyer’s looking at that thing and looking at you Sawyer’s like I try that on. Yeah, Can I try that she’s sure to.
0:29:02 – Speaker 2
She did First thing and you know, next week, mom, I’m going to go to the doctor, oh, yeah, you know what’s happening.
0:29:06 – Speaker 1
I hurt myself, I hurt myself. I bet you did I can’t.
0:29:10 – Speaker 2
So I was like, oh God, I guess we better go to the doctor. And I’m thinking I said to the doctor I’m like you know, I was very prepared for her not to play sports, but I didn’t know how she’d function in life. I never thought about her getting around school. She couldn’t walk Literally do her bedroom.
0:29:26 – Speaker 1
And I’m like, oh, how’s she going to get around school how?
0:29:30 – Speaker 2
come, they didn’t give her crutches, crutches. Because the boot does it. Is that, yeah, ok.
0:29:35 – Speaker 1
Yeah, wow, crutches wasn’t an option. Yeah, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsor, concern Center.
0:29:44 – Speaker 2
Oh, we like them. They’re rethinking how to connect people with the resources and support to live happy, fulfilling lives. Sounds a lot like our podcast.
0:29:52 – Speaker 1
Do not push it. You know, Rebecca, every organization has people that need help finding support Students, employees, patients.
0:30:02 – Speaker 2
I do not need help with patients.
0:30:05 – Speaker 1
Patience Concern Centers help. 3.5 million people find support nationwide, with more becoming a part of it every day.
0:30:14 – Speaker 2
It sounds a lot like our podcast. I can’t. The More Love podcast is all about people connecting with each other, so if you or someone you know is involved in a university, a company or health system that needs a better way to connect people with resources. Please reach out to connection at ConcernCentercom.
0:30:31 – Speaker 1
Help us get everyone connected to the help they need. Well said.
0:30:35 – Speaker 2
So what were we talking about?
0:30:39 – Speaker 1
Hey, we did it we kind of did it.
0:30:42 – Speaker 2
We kind of Maybe we better take a break, and I improvised.
0:30:44 – Speaker 1
And you were like all right, I’m ready for a break. What kind of break?
0:30:47 – Speaker 2
We’ve never done a break before I improvised, I can’t.
0:30:50 – Speaker 1
Oh, you mean you will continue.
0:30:52 – Speaker 2
You can say I cannot. Well, I’m sorry.
0:30:56 – Speaker 1
Listen, I’m allowed to go off script. Oh OK, but you can’t, because I can’t pivot from that. I don’t know what to do. You are the one out of the two of us who knows how to rebound. That’s true.
0:31:08 – Speaker 2
I do not.
0:31:09 – Speaker 1
I got something for you today. This came in as our first. What should you do? Oh, from a listener. I love it, can you? It’s basically ask Abby, I love that, but it’s ask Aaron and Rebecca. Oh, great, and the way that this came out was she asked me what to do and I said I’m not the person to ask about that. That’s actually Rebecca, right, because I have no clue. I would not be good at this whatsoever. Oh, ok, so are you ready for me to read this question that came in from a listener? Yes, ma’am, so that we can comment on it. Should I get my pendulum out? Absolutely, oh, ok, she actually would like a pendulum.
0:31:53 – Speaker 2
You broke it this time.
0:31:55 – Speaker 1
Oh, that makes me feel so much better. What does that mean? What does that?
0:32:01 – Speaker 2
mean I think we need a new pendulum.
0:32:05 – Speaker 1
Oh my God, pendulum fell off. That’s not good, okay.
0:32:13 – Speaker 2
I don’t have my nail glue. Nope, I don’t think I can ask the pendulum. I fixed it last time, yeah, but now the piece is Hold on, go ahead and read Are you ready? I’ll try to twister it. Here’s the question.
0:32:25 – Speaker 1
Here’s the Ask Rebecca and Erin. Okay, what do you do when your empathy puts you in a situation where you feel uncomfortable? Recently, a past co-worker of mine randomly reached out via text asking if we could get together.
0:32:43 – Speaker 2
Did you say an ex-co-worker? Yes, okay, past co-worker.
0:32:47 – Speaker 1
Okay. He said he was going through something where he wanted to surround himself with positive people and quote, just needed a friend. Through our text exchange he explained that he is going through a divorce and it was a hard time for him. My empathy springs into action and I offer to meet him out for lunch or coffee sometime. His reply to my invitation was that he would prefer to come over to my house.
This request your face is classic. This request might not seem weird if a close friend asked this of me, but I have only talked to this guy a few times in the past four-ish years after he left the company we both worked at together. We also were never exceptionally close. We just saw each other at work every now and then and never hung out socially. After he left the company, he sent me a few hello texts just to keep in touch. He’s been very persistent about making plans and he checks in with me now every few days. I started to feel uncomfortable about getting together with him because of his persistence and saying he wanted to come to my house. I have asked a few friends oh, my thing, hang on, freaking hate that.
0:34:09 – Speaker 2
I don’t know why it does that. It jumps.
0:34:12 – Speaker 1
Okay, he’s been very persistent about making plans and checks in every few days. I started to feel uncomfortable about getting together with him because of his persistence and saying he wanted to come to my house. I have asked a few friends who also used to work with him about this situation. They find it strange and suggest not getting together with him. My husband also feels uncomfortable.
0:34:34 – Speaker 2
Oh, she married.
0:34:37 – Speaker 1
That’s right there. My husband also feels uncomfortable about it, saying that it almost sounds like this guy is trying to date me, and it’s inappropriate. Although I feel for him in his situation and I would love to offer support for him, I don’t really want to follow through on plans with him due to my comfort level at this point. So this is where I feel like my empathy for him has gotten me into a situation where I feel uncomfortable. I’d be interested to hear both your and Rebecca’s thoughts on this situation. If needed, please ask the pendulum. Many thanks to my empathy superheroes.
0:35:15 – Speaker 2
We’re going to start right with the pendulum. I love that. That’s good, right, that’s a good one.
0:35:22 – Speaker 1
You can ask me, but you can ask Rebecca.
0:35:25 – Speaker 2
We’re going to ask the pendulum first.
0:35:27 – Speaker 1
I have to tell you something. Kelly at the street said what she said. She’s like a third degree witch or something like that.
0:35:34 – Speaker 2
We should have her on and do it. She won’t do the hippie voodoo shit.
0:35:38 – Speaker 1
What if she just sits in the corner and does the hippie voodoo shit. I’ve already asked. I’ve asked all the things. She won’t do it. So she said you ask the pendulum, show me yes, show me no. So, that the pendulum tells you what you’re looking for, because I don’t know if it changes or whatever. That’s a really good, but thank you, kelly at the street. Thank you, kelly at the street for that witch stuff.
0:36:03 – Speaker 2
So show me. Yes, do you see it moving back and forth? Let’s go and back and forth. Okay, pendulum, show me. No, yeah, it’s doing the circle. Now, that’s how I do it. That’s how it does it for me at home. Do you see the circle? Is that not freaking you out?
0:36:25 – Speaker 1
No, not at all. I feel nothing.
0:36:27 – Speaker 2
So you’re dead inside. You’re all in. Are we ready?
0:36:31 – Speaker 1
We’re going to ask for our listener Should she get together with X co-worker.
0:36:42 – Speaker 2
Oh hell no, it says no. Oh, big time. No, wait, I have more questions. Should she continue engaging through text with him? Look at that, it’s saying yes. I’m really surprised, me too.
0:36:56 – Speaker 1
I disagree.
0:36:57 – Speaker 2
I disagree too. Should she cut ties with this guy nicely? It’s saying no. Wow, wait, is this guy romantically interested in her Saying no, clearly saying no?
0:37:13 – Speaker 3
Look at that. What if you had that hanging from something that wasn’t moving, like your arm, like if you were to hang it from?
0:37:24 – Speaker 1
Scott.
0:37:24 – Speaker 3
I’m not saying right now, I’m just curious.
0:37:26 – Speaker 1
This is absolutely what I love. You realize that if she puts that on something that is not moving, the whole hippie voodoo shit goes right down the tube.
0:37:38 – Speaker 2
Do you want to take it and ask the questions?
0:37:40 – Speaker 1
Here we go. Scott, you got me right in the middle here.
0:37:43 – Speaker 2
Are we clear. He’s trying to prove that he doesn’t want people to think that I’m moving it. Do you want to do?
0:37:49 – Speaker 1
it Because my arm doesn’t move.
0:37:54 – Speaker 3
If she does it, we can’t see or hear her. Let’s skip that part.
0:37:59 – Speaker 2
What do we ask Ann Should she meet up in person with her ex-co-worker?
0:38:09 – Speaker 3
It’s circling.
0:38:09 – Speaker 2
See, should she cut all ties with this guy? It’s still saying no, stop with the fate.
0:38:19 – Speaker 3
What was the other question we asked? What was her empathy for him?
0:38:22 – Speaker 2
Because, she feels bad. He’s going through a hard time. He’s having a hard time A divorce.
0:38:26 – Speaker 3
He’s going through a divorce. This practical stranger is the only person that he can turn to, exactly.
0:38:35 – Speaker 1
You find that odd?
0:38:36 – Speaker 2
It’s the story of my day on the life Scott. And insisting that he meet in her home. That’s weird. Now it’s circling. It’s saying no, knock on to the home.
0:38:50 – Speaker 3
Go to Panera.
0:38:51 – Speaker 2
That’s what it’s saying Do you want to go or meet?
0:38:55 – Speaker 1
I would love for you to start, because I actually think we might be a little more aligned on this, and then I would love to talk about why we’re more aligned. First of all, I’d like to really thank our listener for writing in and asking for the expertise of the two people here, erin and Rebecca. We really appreciate that. We do pride ourselves on having all of the answers for all of life’s empathy questions. That’s right. Please feel free to write in If you like today’s show. You can come in on wwwthemorelovepodcastcom or just send us an email at themorelovepodcastgmailcom or text us, if you know our numbers or probably just text us.
We have so many listeners here.
0:39:38 – Speaker 2
That’s right. I do have more follow-up questions. Do you know this person personally? You probably might have the answers. What type of career? What was their career that they worked in together? Was it an office? Yes, like an office setting. It was not a higher ed communal, it’s just your standard data entry office-y place, then necessarily many opportunities to have meaningful conversations with people.
0:40:11 – Speaker 1
unless you did it on purpose? Yes, if I’m remembering correctly, she said that essentially they would talk or hang out not hang out. Like a water cooler, like classic colleagues.
0:40:29 – Speaker 2
They’re not having lunch together or they’re personal lives.
0:40:32 – Speaker 1
She would tell me that he would do things like one of those lifts that you would go up on to get the boxes that were really high in the warehouse. He would go up on the lift and then would look down at her and would be like hi, hi, all the time while she was working. So there’s something there about an interest level of some type, is my gut sense. So this is someone who probably my guess is doesn’t have a whole bunch of close connections, doesn’t really know how to make social relationships with people, doesn’t have a lot of people, but then is going to glom on to the people that are giving any type of attention whatsoever. That’s my gut sense.
0:41:21 – Speaker 2
But it’s not like we’re best of friend colleagues and we hang out Like what we refer to as work husband and wife I’ve had many work husbands in my time, yes, and so us getting together outside of work wouldn’t have been weird, correct, and my husband knew them All the things. So absolutely not getting together with him At all, no, nothing she’s going to say or do is going to help him.
0:41:50 – Speaker 1
Okay, would you have before? He said I would really love to just meet you at your house. You would have gotten together with him. No, you weren’t getting together with this guy. No matter what, we don’t work together anymore.
0:42:03 – Speaker 2
We don’t need to be friends. That’s so weird.
0:42:06 – Speaker 1
Classic we’re done working together.
0:42:08 – Speaker 2
We’re all done. I mean, we can be nice to each other, but we’re done. We were friends at work because it was work. Now we’re done. Classic, that is so you.
Why do I need to maintain a relationship, especially because I don’t know you anymore? Now, if there was a bigger relationship there and it was already have been being maintained throughout the years, it’s a very different story. But you said that she had been gone for a while Right, four years, four years and they would just casually interact Casual hellos, right. So that’s weird. That’s just, that’s your casual relationship. Yeah, we’re kind, we had a. I shouldn’t say a thing, that’s not what I mean. But you were colleagues. You didn’t need to be mean to each other. But you certainly do not need to go out of your way to help someone through a divorce that you know nothing about.
0:42:57 – Speaker 1
So this guy reaches out to you four years after you’ve worked with him and is like hey, rebecca, stuff’s really tough right now. I know we weren’t super close when we worked together, but I just really would love to. I’ve always appreciated you. I’ve appreciated your insight. I’d love to talk to you about some stuff. I’m going through a divorce right now. I was just wondering, like, could we get together? Could I run some things past you? What do you do with that text?
0:43:22 – Speaker 2
message. I call you and have you write it, and then I copy it and paste it and send it and the gist of it is oh, I really appreciate you thinking of me and I’m going to try to do what you would say I really appreciate you thinking of me and that I might be able to help you through this. However, as sorry as I am that you’re going through this, my life is extremely full right now and I just don’t have the capacity. So I wish you well. I could cry. I could cry. I would never say that shit, that is perfect. I do learn from you.
0:43:58 – Speaker 1
You did such a great job If you had not asked me what to say, what would you say?
0:44:02 – Speaker 2
I would immediately call you and be like you need to hear this crazy shit, yep.
0:44:07 – Speaker 1
And then you would never respond no.
0:44:09 – Speaker 2
I didn’t get the message, and then I would immediately block the number Yep.
0:44:13 – Speaker 1
I know you would Sorry, so there’s no part of you that feels empathy for the fact that this person is going through a hard time. Oh no, I do feel empathy.
0:44:23 – Speaker 2
I do. I feel that really sucks. I’m really sorry, but I do not need to be a part of that.
0:44:28 – Speaker 1
Fascinating. Talk more about that, because I think that’s the crux for people with a tremendous amount of empathy. The problem for us is we feel a whole bunch of empathy and then we feel like if we do not assist in that empathy situation, we are somehow doing a disservice, that that person is not going to be okay, that we’re going to have that on our minds that we did not assist. That’s the part you don’t have. You have the empathy. I’m really sorry you’re going through a voice that’s really hard.
That really sucks. What’s the turn it off that comes from? What is it about you that feels like you don’t have to help, assist, manage, support or care for that?
0:45:05 – Speaker 2
person. I am very, very crystal clear on my values and when I look at my to-do list and I look at who comes first my husband, my children, my inner circle, my work, your husband your children, me, your inner circle.
0:45:20 – Speaker 1
I’m sorry, I didn’t know if I heard you okay.
0:45:22 – Speaker 3
Aaron my husband.
0:45:25 – Speaker 2
I’m very clear that. And then I look at my calendar and my schedule and what my priorities are and I am much more interested in watching TV with my husband. Then I am engaging with your crazy as shit. Okay, I just have no desire to do it because it is taking away from what I really want to do.
0:45:41 – Speaker 1
What if you won the lottery? Mm-hmm, a better scenario would be what if I won the lottery and I just took care of you for the rest of your life?
0:45:49 – Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
0:45:50 – Speaker 1
You never had to work another day in your life, mm-hmm. You send the kids to school. Your husband still loves to work because he’s weird like that and you’re like all I can do. How many times can one person go to Hobby Lobby in one week, right? How many times, right, mm-hmm. You have all the time in the world Are you engaging with this person?
0:46:11 – Speaker 2
In this scenario, this exact scenario, Someone who contacts you from the past no, you’re still not.
0:46:18 – Speaker 1
No, okay, then you got to dig deeper. For me, because, yes, it’s about values, but there’s something else that keep, that’s keeping you from engaging. Because in that second scenario, you don’t care about my time, that you have all the time in the world. You have all the time in the world to be able to dedicate to this someone. You’re still not doing it. Why?
0:46:37 – Speaker 2
It’s an energy suck, it’s a. It doesn’t matter what I have to say to you. I can be as empathetic, I can give you advice, I can do all those things, but I know deep down you’re not gonna do any of that and you just want my time and I don’t want to give you time. So you, because if I did, I would have been giving you time this whole entire time that we weren’t working together. I would have had a relationship with you, but I don’t. So why would I go that next level of depth when you’re just a colleague?
0:47:05 – Speaker 1
You don’t feel the need to have to share your energy with anyone, with just anyone. Correct, that is a difference, and and for me as well as your person. I feel that it feels, at least to me, like I have to or I owe it to to support this person With energy. Now you’re really teaching me, but wait, are you, are you?
0:47:34 – Speaker 2
nailing it and every other aspect of your life Are you. Are you nailing it like? Your husband feels a hundred percent fulfilled, your parents, your best friends, everybody else feels a hundred percent filled, then why are so? You’re, you’re going to continue to let that.
0:47:50 – Speaker 1
Be because it’s easier for me. Yeah, it’s easier, that’s your problem.
0:47:54 – Speaker 2
That’s your saver. Complex, it’s easier problem.
0:47:57 – Speaker 1
Mm-hmm. It’s easier to give to the people who need it that are Separate than it is for me to dive deeper into the empathy of the people who need me to be there.
That’s your problem because, in some ways I think that’s fascinating. In some ways I feel like I do give a ton of empathy Of course you do and that it’s not always either reciprocated or I’m not. I Feel like at some point I’m like I just how much more do I give Right? And so it’s not as rewarding to me as when I give it to.
0:48:29 – Speaker 2
Random co-worker. You just, you just nailed it. Reward it’s, it’s your savior, complex. That’s, that’s what makes you fulfilled. It’s like a mini high. It is like a mini high and that that is an energy suck for me.
Hmm, so I’m getting secondarily rewarded From helping someone especially if it’s pissing your husband off, because clearly she talked to her husband about it and her husband said what the hell? Now, number one value is your husband. If he has a problem with it, you cut that shit off immediately. If you’re toddling back and forth, and you really got to look inside yourself, really yes, really yes. If I said to my husband I’m very uncomfortable with that and he didn’t cut shut off, we got big problems. Hmm.
0:49:15 – Speaker 3
Hmm.
0:49:15 – Speaker 2
Hmm, interesting, because where is your values lie?
0:49:18 – Speaker 1
Is this really fascinating? I would feel that way if Mark was talking to some co-worker and I’m like, absolutely not we’re not doing that? Stop that right now, and if he didn’t stop, but if it was the other way around, I’d be like I got this. I don’t need you to tell me what to do. Hmm, I’m in control of this situation because you get high off of it. Isn’t that fascinating.
0:49:36 – Speaker 2
Mm-hmm, but that’s where you really need to look into the real reason, because you can very clearly give two sentence advice to that person. You don’t need to sit down with them. This is, this is how I feel about protecting you all the time. You don’t need to sit down with people, you don’t need to have conversations with them. They can get the same information from someone else somewhere else, over and over and over again. It’s it’s something about being in your presence, it’s something about Whatever it is and and unfortunately, so you’re saying in this situation that this individual Targeted this woman, knowing she’s like me?
0:50:14 – Speaker 1
She’s actually nicer than me.
0:50:16 – Speaker 2
I don’t know that. If it was a target, okay, he probably my judge of her knowing that she probably made him feel good right and made him feel seen, and that’s what I mean about like right.
0:50:28 – Speaker 1
He’s not just randomly reaching out to his old supervisor, right, he’s like I have a connection with this woman right from my past, because, even though in her mind it was this fleeting Connection in his mind it was this is someone who makes me feel, seen, which happens a lot to me. Sure, right, as well as it happens to this other woman. Because you’re a listener, you care, you don’t want to be rude to people, you don’t want to make people feel uncomfortable, right, but then at some point that can transition into well, now I’m uncomfortable. Or now I got to go and now I can’t break it off because, right, that person is, is so into that Conversation that now you almost feel bad and indebted to the fact that You’ve not Engaged enough with them right and this is where the cutting your nose off despite your face comes in.
That’s right. So your tactic of we just don’t even get involved in the first place, because we know Well I’m eventually gonna end up down the rabbit hole, is not a bad tactic and, to be fair, one that I really am trying to hone.
0:51:30 – Speaker 2
You’re doing great.
0:51:31 – Speaker 1
Thank you a lot of ways, thank you. I’m doing two things differently. One, I’m setting up that boundary earlier, so that I’m saying things like this sounds really difficult. You know, have you spoken with a therapist about this? Have you, you know, whatever specifically for people who aren’t in my inner circle? So I’m setting up a boundary and I’m closing down Conversations earlier.
I am doing better about that. And then the second thing I’m doing is I’m really trying to dissect what it feels like in my body when I have free time and I’m comfortable with it you, that’s.
0:52:06 – Speaker 2
Your first step is acknowledgement, yes, that you’ve acknowledged, even acknowledged that most people aren’t even at that point when they can acknowledge that they’re hiding and work, or they’re hiding in social media or they’re hiding in asmr. Yep you know you stop, they’re hiding, they’re not Aligning with their actual values, because I guarantee those people will say well, families, my number one value. Really. What is your calendar? How does your calendar reflect that? How much time are you spending with your family?
0:52:34 – Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.
0:52:35 – Speaker 2
Oh, oh, okay. So is family you really your value? And it’s okay if it’s not. But you have to get aligned, yeah, that you have to get aligned in your, in your heart, with your values and where you spend your time. Stop being fake about your values, right?
0:52:49 – Speaker 1
And you’re only fooling yourself.
0:52:51 – Speaker 2
That’s right and and at the end of the day, whatever you value is fine. That’s right. If you value money and you will do anything to get money, that’s right, I’m bored with that, yeah, just own it. Yes, but you know, that if?
you laugh at me all the time. You’ll be like, can you, can you, can you go on this overnight with me? And I’m like no. And you’re like why? And I’m like because it’s my daughter’s JV soccer game. And you’re like how many games does she have? And I’m like 15. And you’re like you can’t miss one. No, I can’t.
0:53:17 – Speaker 1
My number one priority is being there for my children somehow I manipulate you and you’re going with me or something happens. I have to have that conversation because that is my number one.
0:53:27 – Speaker 2
I am the one who I want to take them to. Every practice I want it. That is a Huge priority for me. Every single dance class, I’m sitting in the waiting room. I do not drop them off and come and pick them up. No, but that’s my value. Do I do other things when I’m sure, but at the end of the day, my calendar reflects my values for the most part.
0:53:48 – Speaker 1
So, and part of what I’m really trying to lean into is I like to be going, I like to be doing, I don’t like to be idle, I like to be creative, I like to put out into the world as much goodness as I possibly can, Nailing it.
Where that has been sort of off kilter for a while is that I was pushing so much out and connecting so much with other people and doing the podcast and doing my business and supporting the charity and doing all of these things that I was completely out of alignment to the point where I wasn’t sleeping very well at night. I was stress during the day, I was getting too short with my family, I was not taking the time that I needed to sit with my family or invest in them or whatever, and for me it has been a bit of a values clarification. But it’s also been about what does it feel like to sit in the discomfort of not doing and why are we uncomfortable not doing? And I think in some ways that that’s connected to the savior complex, because if my worth and my value comes from how much I give to others and I’m sitting on the couch watching cops I’m not giving.
And if I’m not giving then there’s an impact on my value, my worth, my worth, my ability to connect with other people. That is what I’ve really honed in the last, I’d say, three weeks just not raising my hand to participate, not being the person who’s like I’ll take care of that right, letting other people step in and take care of some things for me, even if that means that I feel like I could take that on, but yet it’s important for that other person to take on. So I’ve been on this very interesting journey over the last three or four weeks associated with that.
0:55:50 – Speaker 2
I have to interrupt you. If you were to take a survey from your husband and your son and just say, rate me, rate me on a scale of one to 10 as a wife and meeting your needs, rate me on a scale of one to 10 as a mom, meeting your needs, and again, if you’re nailing it there, that’s awesome. But if your son comes to you and says, yeah, mom, you’re the love of my life, but you’re really only at five because you’re not home or you’re always on the phone working or whatever, that will also be a very clear indicator.
Now, we’re not gonna ask those questions because you don’t wanna hear the answers.
0:56:27 – Speaker 1
Well, I didn’t have to ask the question because my son continued to come in every single day. He got home from school and he would start to make comments like you’re always working, how come you have to work so much? What is it that you do at your job? I don’t wanna do that when I get older, because all you do is work right. And then I started to hear very clearly and I’m like you gotta get this together right, because, yes, there is a lot of work to be done and the reality is it’s still gonna be there tomorrow.
0:56:57 – Speaker 2
That’s right, that’s right, but this ex-co-worker from four years ago doesn’t need that evening at my house when my son does. Yeah right.
0:57:08 – Speaker 1
And, in this scenario, putting the boundary on not needing to be the person that this person comes to and instead questioning why is it that we feel we have to show up for people who have not at all shown up for us or been a part of our life for however many years?
0:57:28 – Speaker 2
That’s what I mean. It would be very different if it was your work husband that every single day you went to lunch, every single day you had conversations with. They knew the inner workings of your relationship. Maybe you had insight to why their marriage fell apart.
0:57:42 – Speaker 1
None of that exists none of that, and the reality is that this is what strongly empathic people do is they feel like they have to give to these people who were an otherwise meaningless to their life. We just can’t admit that because it sounds mean right, but it’s a theme of what I’ve. It’s just honest, it’s just reality, it’s just the reality.
0:58:08 – Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s not mean, but sometimes honesty and sometimes reality can come across as hurtful. It’s just like with life there’s gonna be disappointments all the time, and that’s okay. It’s okay to be disappointed, it’s okay not to get what you want. At the end of the day, you need to make choices and decisions that reflect your values. I don’t know how lots to say it, and I think the theme, because otherwise you’re not authentic.
0:58:35 – Speaker 1
It keeps coming up. A lot in these episodes is look at you, yeah, Look at you. It’s so easy to say, oh my gosh, what about this guy? How come he’s contacting us? How come this right? Why are you feeling like? That Is a real question we should be asking. Why are in and I’m in the same boat that this girl is?
0:58:56 – Speaker 2
right. So, that’s not a judgment at all, and you definitely don’t listen to me when I tell you what to do.
0:59:00 – Speaker 1
I do, or else I wouldn’t be where I am right now. It only took 20 years. Well, some of us were slower learners than others, geez, but yes, right. Look at you. Look at you, and the first question you should be asking yourself is what is it about me that doesn’t allow this situation to unfold in a different way? And do I like that about myself? What need am I fulfilling at the end of the day? And if I don’t like that about myself and I’m still doing it, which was the place where I was what do I need to change? What needs to be different? That’s where the work is. It’s that saying when one finger’s pointed this way, there’s three fingers pointing back at you.
0:59:40 – Speaker 2
I’ve never heard that.
0:59:41 – Speaker 1
Oh really, that’s a great saying One finger pointing this way, three pointing back at you, right.
0:59:45 – Speaker 3
So what is?
0:59:46 – Speaker 1
it about you, and that’s the work.
0:59:49 – Speaker 2
That’s the hard work, that’s the big work. That’s where change happens. Even when you do feel confident in your decision to shut this guy down, it’s still gonna feel mean. It’s always gonna feel mean because you weren’t giving. You don’t need to always be giving. You don’t, and it’s okay Because at the end of the day, you have to think about the other things in your life and, what’s more important, you don’t need to always be giving no.
1:00:19 – Speaker 1
I think that’s an amazing message. I completely agree.
1:00:24 – Speaker 2
So your final statement to this listener who asked us for advice is what my advice is to really look at yourself and really really decide what you want to do and then couch that for a minute, because you already brought your husband into it. Have a conversation with your husband, because I think that’s also going to be a major part of it. When you’re a team and you’re a partnership and that’s what husbands and wives do at the end of the day, you need to honor each other, and so if he was like you know what, if you feel like you need to help this person, go right ahead. Then go back to your couch and pick up what your decision was. If your husband says absolutely not, I’m very uncomfortable with this, I do not want you to meet them in person. But if you feel the need to have a text message, conversation, whatever I mean again, you’ve got to figure out what’s okay in your relationship Then go back to your couch statement, pick it up and really think about that and then, in what feels genuine to you, respond to that person.
In subcapacity, I can’t tell you what to say because I would shut it off immediately or just ignore because I don’t have time. I barely have time to get my life together, so I just don’t have that time. But if that’s uncomfortable for you, you need to do something that is comfortable for you but still honors all the boundaries and the values. And it’s a practice. You know how people say you practice law, you’re practicing and honoring your value system. I really think at the end of the day, people do not truly sit with what their values are and define them. So that would be my first advice.
1:02:08 – Speaker 1
I think that would be my advice. Related to that would be let’s use this as an opportunity to practice how we set boundaries with someone at the end of the day that it’s not gonna matter, right? It’s not like he’s showing up at your house.
1:02:22 – Speaker 2
It’s not like it’s not even about this one person Right, it’s about all the other.
1:02:26 – Speaker 1
But if we can practice with this person, let’s see that as a gift. To practice with someone how we set a better boundary. And then the other thing I would say is trust your gut Absolutely. If there is something about this situation that is making you feel uncomfortable, that is like. That doesn’t sit right with me. You don’t need to give an excuse or a reason to anyone.
You can simply say something about this. Situation isn’t sitting right with me and I’m not gonna be able to continue this conversation. That does not mean, however, I don’t wish you the absolute best and hope everything is gonna be great for you. Exactly my best to you. Shut down, block, move on.
1:03:07 – Speaker 2
And I. The reason I use the word block is because, if you don’t, you’re still leaving that window open.
1:03:14 – Speaker 1
Well, those of us with a ton of empathy, you have to.
1:03:16 – Speaker 2
It’s a temptation, it’s a slippery slope to get sucked back in. Boundaries are hard. They’re really hard, because they feel mean Sometimes out of sight, out of mind, is helpful. Yep and I got a lot of black people in my life on purpose.
1:03:33 – Speaker 1
Yeah, good luck blocking me. I’m gonna show up at your front door knocking on that door two o’clock in the morning. That’s right, you got me blocked. You got me blocked, oh my God. So if that went well, we’ll get some feedback from the listener.
1:03:48 – Speaker 3
Yeah, we’ll find out. Send us your questions, your concerns.
1:03:52 – Speaker 1
This is our Ask Abby Hour, except it’s Ask Erin and Rebecca.
1:03:56 – Speaker 2
That’s right, that’s right.
1:03:57 – Speaker 1
Thank you for joining us today and Ta ta for now. See you next Tuesday.
1:04:02 – Speaker 2
Ha ha, ha I loved that Me too Is an empathy amazing. Well, we’re amazing. I don’t know about all this empathy stuff.
1:04:13 – Speaker 1
That’s fine, I accept you wherever you are. Oh God, I love you. I love you too, and if you love us, please like and subscribe to More Love the power of empathy podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.
Hey, it’s me, Erin. Thanks for joining us on the More Love podcast. Do not tell Rebecca, but this podcast is about empathy. She likes people to think she’s dead inside, but the truth is she’s a big time feeler who has truly helped me uncover that empathy is my superpower. Here she comes.
0:00:28 – Speaker 2
Hey, Bestie, Hi love.
0:00:30 – Speaker 1
What are you doing? Oh, just getting ready to host a podcast. A podcast About what Life? Our life as best friends who are more like sisters. Yay, I love us and I can’t wait to share our stories with the world, Especially the ones that involve us pushing each other right To be our most authentic selves.
0:00:50 – Speaker 2
Oh man Okay.
0:00:57 – Speaker 1
We have to start with an empathy problem today. Okay, it happened last night. Last night, yep, it happened last night, and I can’t wait to hear what your thought is going to be on this. Okay, have you heard about the woman that got eaten by the alligator in Florida?
0:01:14 – Speaker 2
Oh, I briefly. Well, of course, you, you were obsessed with alligators I know, it came right up, but I saw something about they found her in his mouth and then didn’t they kill the alligator. Yeah See, I didn’t read the article, I just insinuated all that from looking at her picture.
0:01:27 – Speaker 1
Oh, what do you mean? Her picture Like her arm hanging out the alligator’s mouth.
0:01:31 – Speaker 2
No, they did, like a bubble of her. What?
0:01:33 – Speaker 1
she would have looked like yeah, so much to unpack here. Okay, this is what we’re starting with as an empathy problem, because I had poor Mark talking about this no joke for 45 minutes last night. Okay, so we find out about the alligator this woman gets. She’s just this tiny little bit of a thing. She’s had to be like a hundred pounds. She was so tiny and she got eaten by this like 10 plus foot alligator in Florida. Look at your face, what you’re upset about the alligator.
0:02:01 – Speaker 2
No.
0:02:02 – Speaker 1
Okay, I know you have all the thoughts right now Keeping it, keeping it in, okay, cannot wait to hear Okay.
0:02:07 – Speaker 2
But I did not read the article, just be clear, so you have to give me correct information, or I’m going to make a lot of assumptions.
0:02:12 – Speaker 1
Okay, I’m going to give you the most information I possibly can. Okay, so they’re. They’re talking about how this poor woman got eaten by this alligator. Oh, thank you, Scott. That’s why you go to Rock Fox for the extra production. Scott, did you hear about this?
0:02:29 – Speaker 3
No.
0:02:30 – Speaker 1
You didn’t hear any, okay, good.
0:02:31 – Speaker 3
Good, I’m riveted because I grew up dodging alligators in Florida, so for real.
0:02:37 – Speaker 2
Yeah, so I’m sure he’s going to have a lot of opinions. Okay, okay, go ahead.
0:02:41 – Speaker 1
So basically, this poor woman gets eaten by this alligator and then the first thing they they show on TV is this blurred out spot and like the bottom portion of the screen, and then this huge ass alligator. I’m talking, this thing is 10 plus feet, okay.
0:03:02 – Speaker 2
Big, it’s huge.
0:03:03 – Speaker 1
Okay, so you see this alligator and the alligator’s moving right, like, and then you see this spot which is probably, you’re assuming, body parts of this poor woman, right, who’s been eaten. And then they start talking about how they have to kill the alligator. So I turned to Mark and I’m like why do I have to kill the alligator? Alligators just doing what it instinctually does, right and very clearly he said well, we have to be able to identify who the person is. We’re not just going to reach inside the alligator’s mouth and pull out the pieces, like we have to open up the alligator to find out who the person is. The person’s in its stomach, I thought. So it’s blurred out on the floor. It pieces of the person I’m assuming.
0:03:46 – Speaker 2
Well, then you can get enough DNA from that.
0:03:50 – Speaker 1
Okay, so you’re right, so you’re a proponent of allowing the alligator to live, 100%, really.
0:03:55 – Speaker 2
And can’t you just like put sleeping medication in the the right way. Yeah, and then operation, and then back up.
0:04:04 – Speaker 1
I wondered these things as well.
0:04:05 – Speaker 3
Right, I don’t think that they ever let the animal live if it kills a human being?
0:04:08 – Speaker 1
I think you’re right. Why is that Scott?
0:04:12 – Speaker 3
You know what I don’t know, but I think that’s just the rule I think you’re right when a dog bites and attacks a person. What do they do?
0:04:21 – Speaker 2
They put the youth in either.
0:04:23 – Speaker 3
Yeah, If a lion kills somebody, even in Africa, they go out and they kill the lion.
0:04:27 – Speaker 2
Right. If a bear does it, they go out and they kill the bear. Is that fair? It’s not because we’re invading their habitat, but apparently humans are superior.
0:04:36 – Speaker 1
Remember how I feel about animals I know Are we clear, but we’re thinking I’m thinking to myself okay, so this alligator did what alligators do, Right? When the shark has lived all the first, so many years, it’s over 10 feet and then we’re like gone.
0:04:53 – Speaker 2
So and alligators don’t just run up after people and eat them Well. I don’t know about that part. I’m pretty sure that’s a thing. Because they actually can do that they can, but they have to be provoked in some way.
0:05:05 – Speaker 1
Sometimes, but they’re a little sneaky.
0:05:08 – Speaker 3
They’re sneaky.
0:05:10 – Speaker 1
So okay, so, Scott, you, think that.
0:05:12 – Speaker 3
Is there any more information about the situation? That’s what I mean. We need some more, yeah.
0:05:14 – Speaker 1
Well, that was the first part, was? I wanted to know how you felt about that, because I did have feelings about the alligator. And then I felt bad about having feelings about the alligator because this poor woman has lost her life.
And so then I felt badly about that because I’m like I totally understand that if that was someone I cared about, if your arm’s hanging out of frickin alligator, I’m not the alligator killed too. But what did she do? It didn’t say what she did, which leads me to the second part, because I’m not. I don’t know if she did anything Right. They have this poor woman’s daughter on the news last night.
0:05:46 – Speaker 3
This is like part two An old woman.
0:05:48 – Speaker 1
She was 41.
0:05:49 – Speaker 3
Oh geez.
0:05:51 – Speaker 1
Otherwise known as Rebecca’s age so, and her daughter’s like 23. Okay, so they have the 23 year old daughter on TV and she’s just absolutely distraught. Of course she is Right. So then they start talking about how they’re saying she was, this woman was so kind and she would have given you the shirt off of her bag. And then they start to go into what she was homeless and she would have given you the last morsel of food off of her plate.
And then the news people start saying despite well, then they say her name I can’t remember her name her having this conviction record of having stolen things from a store. And also, you know, there’s this other thing they start to paint this woman in this this really nasty way, right, despite her having all of those things right, she was still a really kind person. And then this is where I went off for another 37 minutes to mark, because I’m like why do we have to do that to this poor woman who just got eaten by a frickin alligator? And now, like what, what is sacred after someone gets eaten by an alligator? We have to talk about the fact that she was homeless. We got to talk about the fact that she had a drug addiction. We had to talk about the fact that she had a past record.
0:07:27 – Speaker 2
This is why she got eaten by the alligator it has nothing to do with it.
0:07:30 – Speaker 1
Why would that have anything to do with it? Just because she’s homeless?
0:07:33 – Speaker 2
No, it’s because she is mentally ill or on drugs and didn’t realize that you don’t do certain things. She did something to get eaten by the alligator.
0:07:42 – Speaker 3
I’m going to, I’m going to interject here Now. I’ve got an article here that’s by the Daily Mail, which take it or leave it.
0:07:49 – Speaker 1
Okay, is it like the sister of the onion, or what?
0:07:51 – Speaker 3
No, daily Mail is the is the UK kind of rag where you know it’s like the inquirer kind of thing, but not as bad. Okay, sabrina Peckham, 41, was found in the jaws of an alligator after being dragged by the 14 foot beast into a canal on Friday. Her formal cause of death is yet to be determined, which I think is interesting, but they said two months before her death she was arrested for trespassing on a county wetland just a half mile from where she was. Stop your faith. So she was not where she’s supposed to be.
0:08:27 – Speaker 2
Surprise, surprise, but let’s paint this picture that this woman was attacked by this nasty ass alligator.
0:08:35 – Speaker 3
She’s like, like Rebecca said, most of the time, if you’re getting eaten by an alligator, you’re probably too close to the alligator.
0:08:42 – Speaker 2
Or you’re doing something like trying to feed it a beef jerky or something.
0:08:47 – Speaker 3
We used to feed them marshmallows.
0:08:48 – Speaker 1
I don’t know why I can’t, I can’t, scott, I’m just curious Is there ever a time where you’re on my side or no? Should I just get used to?
0:08:56 – Speaker 3
it now. I’m on nobody’s side. Yeah, he’s in the middle. No, you might be physically positioned in the middle.
0:09:02 – Speaker 1
I’m the one who reviews every one of the podcasts. I’m real clear who’s side you’re on. I’m just curious Should I get used to it, or are you going to fake it at some point and also be on my side?
0:09:12 – Speaker 3
I think, it’s beautiful.
0:09:13 – Speaker 2
I think it’s beautiful that what he’s on your side, no that you have sympathy, empathy you want to glorify is not the right word, but you want to celebrate this woman because she died tragically, even though it was probably her fault.
0:09:29 – Speaker 3
I have mixed feelings. Like everything you guys discuss, I have mixed feelings. I’m literally in the middle with this.
0:09:35 – Speaker 1
Of course, what part do you feel bad about for Sabrina Scott? Why don’t you take a moment and tell us?
0:09:40 – Speaker 2
that, that she died, that’s terrible.
0:09:42 – Speaker 3
Well, of course I feel bad for her that she died.
0:09:44 – Speaker 2
In that kind of way.
0:09:45 – Speaker 3
I’m not the kind of person that says, well, she got what was coming to her.
0:09:48 – Speaker 2
No, I don’t believe that ever. I agree, this is very sad. But, we need to teach, or we need to properly tell the story and not leave out details.
0:10:02 – Speaker 1
Did we have to? Did we have to? Okay, this is my main point. This woman is now deceased in a very tragic way. God rest her soul. That’s right. Do we need to add insult to injury here?
No, it’s not about that, if I go, right, if I go, and I happen to be high on some type of drug when I go, are you gonna like make sure that the news doesn’t cover? Oh, you know, like what is sacred at that point? Erin Halligan Avery, married 16 times and having 18 children out of wedlock, but she did get eaten by an alligator. You know, like, at what point do we just not have to share why? But what does that have to do with anything is?
0:10:52 – Speaker 2
my point Because it wasn’t just an average person who’s in good mental health and stability, walking on a sidewalk and out of nowhere, an alligator came out of the canal and bit her leg off. That’s a completely different story.
0:11:05 – Speaker 1
But we have to go into the specifics. Why couldn’t we have said something meaning the news? Why couldn’t we have said something like woman, with a past history of some mental illness and substance abuse concerns, unfortunately gets eaten by an alligator, why do we have to go into, you know, the specifics? That sensationalism of the news really got to me.
0:11:30 – Speaker 2
And that’s why I couldn’t let go.
0:11:31 – Speaker 1
I’m like not only this woman get eaten by a frickin’ alligator. They’re talking about her body parts being out of this thing’s mouth, right. Then we have to take the alligator out, which I have mixed feelings about Again, especially if she’s trinketsin’ on the wetlands right, she’s in his space.
0:11:47 – Speaker 2
Yeah, you’re right, you’re right.
0:11:48 – Speaker 1
And then, all of a sudden, we got to add insult, injury. We have the daughter on, who’s obviously in a massive state of shock and sadness, right, so she’s acting like a typical 23-year-old who’s not in a good place. But we love to sensationalize that to make people look, you know, like they’re off their rockers, right. And then we like to then victimize, revictimize this woman who got eaten, for whatever reason she got eaten. And then we got to go through this woman’s whole history, right, oh, she’s, yeah, even though she has this past history and this, that and the other thing.
I’m like do we really have to do that? Nope, can we just have some frickin’ tact here? There is like, does this come down to what we talk about a lot, which is just people’s inability to communicate? You have to be able to say that in such a way that is going to preserve the humanness associated with what happened in this situation. It’s terrible, yes, it is terrible, but we don’t need to re-villainize this person, and because people have so many opinions, then they’re gonna be like, oh, oh, so she was probably on drugs, all right. Well, that’s what happens when you get eaten, right, and that’s a good portion in my mind of what’s wrong with the world today.
0:12:57 – Speaker 2
Yeah, I think there is a way to be quote unquote factual but not sensationalized.
No, I agree with you, but I do believe there should be quote unquote facts. But it doesn’t need to go into dirty details, it doesn’t need to make the person look bad. Yes, you can say mental health. Mental health can be anything from anything to anything. Yes, but my point is that I don’t. It can’t be painted that this was a pure accident. Yes, I’m okay with that. That’s the only thing. I’m okay with that. And she did not deserve it, because then we have a whole other problem.
0:13:28 – Speaker 1
Right, because then we have a whole bunch of fear around alligators because it sounds like they can just come out of the bog whenever they want to.
0:13:35 – Speaker 2
Right, exactly, but it just is amazing to me what happens when we change the narrative right.
0:13:42 – Speaker 1
But even if we say something like woman who struggles with mental health issues and has been homeless for a decent period of time, that immediately creates a picture in people’s minds about who this woman was.
Oh yeah, and then that’s where the judgment comes in, of course, right Cause the story sounds different if we’re like big time CEO of such and such a company gets eaten by 14 foot alligator, right, and people are like what Right, what was that? You know what? I’ll tell you what, from my time in substance abuse, that CEO has done just as much drugs as the woman who is homeless.
0:14:15 – Speaker 2
But we don’t think that it was either the guy who invented or it was the CEO of the segue. He was on the segue and went off a cliff and died. Something like that happened and he was going to create the segue. Either that or he was like a yeah.
0:14:29 – Speaker 1
And it was like Isn’t it, I’m running.
0:14:33 – Speaker 3
That’s a hell of a segue.
0:14:34 – Speaker 1
That’s true.
0:14:37 – Speaker 2
But that’s my. You’re absolutely right. It could be Right. Yeah, we can’t. We can’t assume that because you’re a quote unquote professional or because you are a lawyer or whatever that you are on the open up and absolutely perfect human being.
0:14:52 – Speaker 1
Absolutely there’s. I just think we need to do better and we need to have people who are second guessing when they’re laying in bed watching the story about the 14 foot alligator, like why did we need to go down that path? And there’s so many other ways we could do it. Ratings Of course. Well, you and I just gained a hundred followers from last Thursday’s episode and we ain’t doing anything shady. So maybe we can be the example for people about how you can get some damn ratings without having to oversensationalize everything.
0:15:29 – Speaker 3
So for our next episode, Rebecca is going to stick her foot into a 10 foot alligator.
0:15:34 – Speaker 2
Great, and let’s see what happens.
0:15:35 – Speaker 1
See what happens Right, and I’m going to make sure that I’m going to characterize you in a really beautiful way. Thank you, that’s still factual Thank you. Thank you, but does not also include all your deepest, darkest secrets about the worst time in your life, while your fricking arms hanging out of a fricking alligator’s mouth. I can’t, I know.
0:15:54 – Speaker 2
That’s a empathy problem.
0:15:55 – Speaker 1
My poor husband has to hang with a 45 minute conversation about this alligator and why we needed to kill the alligator and why we needed to talk about this woman in this way and why the 23 year old has to be sensationalized on TV and all of these things. Can’t just watch fricking TV.
0:16:10 – Speaker 2
I know.
0:16:11 – Speaker 1
I’m so sorry. Hashtag empathy problem. So, we started with that today, so at least we got our empathy talk on the way, let’s move on to your voodoo hippie shit.
0:16:18 – Speaker 2
Well then, so my daughter’s in the studio today. Taylor and she had a soccer injury the other day, and so she’s getting used to wearing a boot. So she is practicing walking around, but we let her do some of the hoody, yeah.
0:16:39 – Speaker 1
Her do some of the hoody, the hoody pickin, the hoody pickin today. So, what’s our in sense of choice today?
0:16:48 – Speaker 2
Oh it was the tree of life. You picked that one. It’s tree of life. I do love the smell of it. It’s a green tea, yeah.
0:16:53 – Speaker 1
I tend to gravitate toward those. Did we name the mermaid? Only one person is offered a suggestion Ariel Ariel.
0:17:00 – Speaker 2
That’s it, taylor. Do you have a suggestion for the mermaid’s name?
0:17:03 – Speaker 1
No, she says no she said no, oh, Taylor’s going to come up with a voodoo hippie. Who’d voodoo hippie shit name. I mean I’m all about Shelly.
0:17:12 – Speaker 2
Oh, oh God, I can’t. She says it needs to be scary. Well, I don’t blame her. Ok, taylor’s on it.
0:17:21 – Speaker 1
OK.
0:17:22 – Speaker 2
OK.
0:17:22 – Speaker 1
So thank you to the person who did offer a name. Yes, we do ask all the time for people to participate and nobody gives a shit.
0:17:29 – Speaker 2
Not about that thing, you know At least she did. By the way, in case people are not part of our Facebook, I did put a bunch of information about my hypnotherapist, so Just had to move this. I thought it was going to fall off.
0:17:40 – Speaker 1
It’s fine, it’s fine.
0:17:41 – Speaker 2
Yes, so if you are interested or want to know more, I’m more than happy to talk about it. In fact, I think one of your friends and I are going to have a little sit down. Oh God.
0:17:49 – Speaker 3
You understand it. I asked Do therapists do past lives or regression?
0:17:52 – Speaker 1
She does that yeah.
0:17:53 – Speaker 3
Really.
0:17:54 – Speaker 1
Yes, yep. Oh my God, why don’t we talk about your past life regression?
0:17:57 – Speaker 2
That wasn’t with her.
0:17:58 – Speaker 1
No, it was not with her.
0:18:00 – Speaker 2
It was with the cycle regression we went to.
0:18:02 – Speaker 3
No, I don’t want to railroad your episodes. Oh no, you’re fine.
0:18:05 – Speaker 2
I’ve always had. Postpartum came on super, super, super hard for me, with Sawyer and I, from the moment she was born to this day, still convinced that my husband’s going to do something to her. It was very, very, very still is very vivid for me, and so we did a past life regression and just so we’re clear, it’s not necessarily intentional.
0:18:25 – Speaker 1
It could also be accidental. It’s just this strong fear associated with something he thinks it’s hilarious gonna happen.
0:18:32 – Speaker 2
Yes, like I remember running out one time he was holding her in the kitchen making dinner and I freaking lost my mind. I went in there and I thought he was gonna put her in the pot of boiling water. I remember Dick Sportinggood specifically. He was holding her when she was a newborn, looking at fishing poles, and it’s an upstairs level, and I was convinced he was just gonna toss her over the side To the point where I was on the escalator coming up On purpose.
What On purpose yes yes, and I was on the escalator coming up watching him down in the fetal position screaming, and he’s like what is wrong with you? I mean it was very intense. So I did do a past life regression with her, but we also went to a psychic. It was for your birthday.
0:19:13 – Speaker 1
It was my birthday. Yeah, we went to one voodoo gem shop in Village.
0:19:18 – Speaker 2
Gate Mall. But her reading of me was that I was the one that put Sawyer in a cauldron and burned her On purpose On purpose.
0:19:30 – Speaker 1
Yes, so it’s more me, not Phillip, Yep. And so she said you know, I have this really strong protection of my daughter. Can you tell me where that’s coming from? And she’s like yeah, absolutely, you put her in a cauldron and you burned her to death 800 years ago.
0:19:43 – Speaker 3
I was gonna say cauldrons aren’t like used in kitchen.
0:19:47 – Speaker 2
Oh no, this is way, way, way, way, way long ago, and my past life regression with my hypnotherapist was that Phillip and I had been married multiple times previously and Sawyer was one of our children and he and her were out doing something like this is like medieval times or whatever and he wasn’t watching her appropriately and she ended up dying and so that was through my hypnotherapist.
0:20:15 – Speaker 1
So this psychic shares all of this stuff with Rebecca. She’s in a pure panic and sweat and then, without skipping a beat, the woman turns to me and she’s like I see a lot of success in your future and you’re definitely gonna be retired by the age of 45. Yeah, yeah, oh my God, oh, my God, yeah, it was great. So I’m like like side-eye looking out. You know, right, it was quite funny. Just so we’re clear, taylor, you’ve been my child in a former life. That’s the connection I had with you and I’m sorry that you got the short end of this stick.
0:20:46 – Speaker 2
That’s right, taylor’s gonna be very successful.
0:20:49 – Speaker 1
Ooh, what is this? Smells like? Oh, okay.
0:20:53 – Speaker 2
This one smells. It gets your orange red. I don’t like that. You need it. I don’t like that.
0:21:00 – Speaker 1
I know. Thank you, taylor knows. Taylor knows no W’s that’s what she? Said she knows, yep, you did. You flashed your W’s to me once and what happened?
0:21:11 – Speaker 2
You just got your W’s. Okay, so this is creativity. Oh, all, right. This is the second chakra and it’s located in the sacral area above the pelvic bone.
0:21:22 – Speaker 1
Another pelvic bone. A lot happens there apparently.
0:21:25 – Speaker 2
What do we say? This word is Swahistana. Yeah, swahistana is the nerve center for creativity and sexuality.
0:21:32 – Speaker 3
No wonder, no wonder you’re anti.
0:21:33 – Speaker 2
No wonder.
0:21:34 – Speaker 3
No wonder You’re like dude. He’s creative, smells like garbage.
0:21:38 – Speaker 2
Maybe we should roll it all over.
0:21:42 – Speaker 1
I have a feeling if Mark smelled this too, we’d be like why do you smell like that? It’s disgusting.
0:21:48 – Speaker 2
As human beings, creativity is part of our nature and is expressed through sexual procreation and also transformation of physical or mental materials into something new, using our creative energies. Alignment of the chakra help us lead to a healthy sexual life. Respect our bodies and maintain creative expression.
0:22:07 – Speaker 1
I’m coming for you, mark. Oh, it’s not good. Oh, it smells great. Oh my gosh, can you take this top? I’m trying to see what color orange, right here, the orange yeah, oh, I do not.
0:22:20 – Speaker 2
Oh, I love it, it’s borderline orange.
0:22:22 – Speaker 1
It’s got an orange smell.
0:22:24 – Speaker 2
I feel like this angle is not good today. Is my chair too high?
0:22:28 – Speaker 1
I’m going to bring it down a little bit. It’s not okay. Like, why did you do that? I’m not sure. I’m not sure, I’m not sure. Okay, why did I now have six chins? I? Know, I look like a linebacker. It’s not, it, it’s not good. It’s not good, it’s okay. I got to do the rest of the show like this. So yeah, I just can’t get me a good angle, jeez.
0:22:51 – Speaker 2
Okay, so that’s that. Go ahead, read your affirmation.
0:22:54 – Speaker 1
I am just getting started. I know that each breath confirms that I am alive and far from finished. You need to embrace that I am further from finished than you are. Old Gale. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
0:23:18 – Speaker 2
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
0:23:21 – Speaker 1
The question Okay, I heard a pleasure, but I thought I was going to sit down and tell you one little bit. No, would you like to take a nap, because I still can. No, I want to have a little extra chores. Okay, so I lifted, like this high post a little bit, and it just when I got older.
0:23:54 – Speaker 3
You said as nature.
0:23:55 – Speaker 1
Enough. I love him so much. That little shit you just like totally like all over the place.
0:24:03 – Speaker 2
Tell the story of when you’re in bed and you’re talking about the if this or that, oh what?
0:24:14 – Speaker 1
Oh yeah, tell that story. Oh my God, so gosh, that was at least six or eight months ago. That was a while ago, oh hilarious and because he’s scared of me. I do this thing with Carter, where he likes to play this, like this or that, like pick one right.
If you had to do this, then which one would you do? And so I think he’s the one who initiated it. Yeah, he did. He said mom, who’s prettier, you or Aunt Beck? And I’m like oh, here we go. And so I said you know what, honey, I think that we’re both pretty in our own ways. And he’s like no, mom, aunt Beck.
0:25:04 – Speaker 2
We, peter, put it up for so long.
0:25:06 – Speaker 1
I’m like look at him Like he is dead pan. He is so serious, he’s so serious. I’m like oh, thank you. Okay, Like good night Right.
0:25:18 – Speaker 2
He shut the door, which is so funny, because he’s scared of me. So I think it’s hilarious.
0:25:23 – Speaker 1
Mom, it’s Aunt Beck. It’s Aunt Beck, just so we’re clear. Okay, why’d you ask the question? Right, jerk? Whatever, I got a crack, three of them, oh God, all right, all right, all right, back to our. Oh yeah, where are we at with our intention, our Voodoo card?
0:25:41 – Speaker 2
So Taylor picked it today and I think this is so perfect for her. So she is in ninth grade. I really can’t get these angles right.
0:25:49 – Speaker 1
I am so sorry. You are now so much taller than I am. I don’t like how I feel. Stop moving, god. I’m sorry, scott, like this is not okay. Okay there, okay, good enough. Okay, good, okay, come on, we’re a total luck, I know, you’re not kidding, all right.
0:26:08 – Speaker 2
So she picked this. She’s 14 and in high school and she picked the Page of Swords.
0:26:17 – Speaker 1
There we go. This is where your mother attempts to.
0:26:20 – Speaker 2
This is so small. I’m going to bring in my mermaid ones. They’re so much bigger For sure.
0:26:24 – Speaker 1
At least six different excuses she has about why she can’t rate it. It’s fine.
0:26:28 – Speaker 2
Look how little I mean people. Come on All right. The Page of Swords, A young page, bounds through the clouds, fearlessly at play with his new training sword. He doesn’t truly know how to wield the sword yet, but he can feel the power of magic coursing through the sacred object. He’s determined, moldable and ready to learn.
The Page of Swords invites you to be open-minded and adaptable. This is the time to break free from your usual thought process and consider how to approach things in a different way as you pursue new ideas, be humble and willing to learn. The Page of Swords is determined but largely untrained. He tells you that there is much you don’t know, and it will benefit you to seek training or teachings outside of yourself. With enthusiasm and openness, you will take on your new ideas to great heights. The Page of Swords may embody a part of you or another person in your life, and it will depend on your reading what makes sense to you, and I think that’s perfect for her, because she’s right. You’re at the beginning of your new journey. You’re really discovering who you are as a person.
0:27:27 – Speaker 1
You’re discovering things that make you excited and potentially exploring career paths, and I think career path you’re not exploring getting out of gym class with that boot on your foot. Why don’t you tell that story? I should tell poor Taylor’s over here, like, so what do I do? Just take a zero for Jim. And what was your response?
0:27:47 – Speaker 2
I could absolutely not. You’re not taking a zero for Jim because you have a hurt foot? Yeah, absolutely not. I guess we’re going to go get a foot.
0:27:53 – Speaker 1
Just so we’re clear there’s a bone fragment busted off in her foot.
0:27:58 – Speaker 2
Yeah, she was like well, what am I going to do? And I go well, you’re not going to play soccer for two weeks. Clearly you have a hurt ankle. And she goes. Well, what about Jim? She goes, I guess I’ll just take a zero. I’m like absolutely not, you’re not taking a zero. I go, but at the same time nobody’s going to be like OK, your mom says you don’t have to participate in gym, right. So I’m like I guess we got to go to the doctor to get a doctor’s note.
0:28:23 – Speaker 1
The boots, not enough. Just so we’re clear she walks into gym class with that thing on and the gym teacher is going to be like get out on the field.
0:28:31 – Speaker 2
I don’t know, yeah, but she needs to have a formal excuse, ok.
0:28:35 – Speaker 1
So that she doesn’t have to go out and sit.
0:28:36 – Speaker 2
Anybody could buy a boot.
0:28:37 – Speaker 1
You can buy that crap on Amazon. I’m sorry, I forgot that. We don’t all think like you do, miss Amazon Returns. I’m just saying how can we skirt the system?
0:28:45 – Speaker 2
That’s never crossed my mind once, of course, because you’re so goody-goody you would never do anything bad.
0:28:50 – Speaker 1
Because I probably couldn’t sleep at night, Probably Because I had massive diarrhea. I thought I knew I was trying to get out of gym class with my boot on my foot the first thing I’m going to do is, you know, Sawyer’s looking at that thing and looking at you Sawyer’s like I try that on. Yeah, Can I try that she’s sure to.
0:29:02 – Speaker 2
She did First thing and you know, next week, mom, I’m going to go to the doctor, oh, yeah, you know what’s happening.
0:29:06 – Speaker 1
I hurt myself, I hurt myself. I bet you did I can’t.
0:29:10 – Speaker 2
So I was like, oh God, I guess we better go to the doctor. And I’m thinking I said to the doctor I’m like you know, I was very prepared for her not to play sports, but I didn’t know how she’d function in life. I never thought about her getting around school. She couldn’t walk Literally do her bedroom.
0:29:26 – Speaker 1
And I’m like, oh, how’s she going to get around school how?
0:29:30 – Speaker 2
come, they didn’t give her crutches, crutches. Because the boot does it. Is that, yeah, ok.
0:29:35 – Speaker 1
Yeah, wow, crutches wasn’t an option. Yeah, let’s take a moment to thank our sponsor, concern Center.
0:29:44 – Speaker 2
Oh, we like them. They’re rethinking how to connect people with the resources and support to live happy, fulfilling lives. Sounds a lot like our podcast.
0:29:52 – Speaker 1
Do not push it. You know, Rebecca, every organization has people that need help finding support Students, employees, patients.
0:30:02 – Speaker 2
I do not need help with patients.
0:30:05 – Speaker 1
Patience Concern Centers help. 3.5 million people find support nationwide, with more becoming a part of it every day.
0:30:14 – Speaker 2
It sounds a lot like our podcast. I can’t. The More Love podcast is all about people connecting with each other, so if you or someone you know is involved in a university, a company or health system that needs a better way to connect people with resources. Please reach out to connection at ConcernCentercom.
0:30:31 – Speaker 1
Help us get everyone connected to the help they need. Well said.
0:30:35 – Speaker 2
So what were we talking about?
0:30:39 – Speaker 1
Hey, we did it we kind of did it.
0:30:42 – Speaker 2
We kind of Maybe we better take a break, and I improvised.
0:30:44 – Speaker 1
And you were like all right, I’m ready for a break. What kind of break?
0:30:47 – Speaker 2
We’ve never done a break before I improvised, I can’t.
0:30:50 – Speaker 1
Oh, you mean you will continue.
0:30:52 – Speaker 2
You can say I cannot. Well, I’m sorry.
0:30:56 – Speaker 1
Listen, I’m allowed to go off script. Oh OK, but you can’t, because I can’t pivot from that. I don’t know what to do. You are the one out of the two of us who knows how to rebound. That’s true.
0:31:08 – Speaker 2
I do not.
0:31:09 – Speaker 1
I got something for you today. This came in as our first. What should you do? Oh, from a listener. I love it, can you? It’s basically ask Abby, I love that, but it’s ask Aaron and Rebecca. Oh, great, and the way that this came out was she asked me what to do and I said I’m not the person to ask about that. That’s actually Rebecca, right, because I have no clue. I would not be good at this whatsoever. Oh, ok, so are you ready for me to read this question that came in from a listener? Yes, ma’am, so that we can comment on it. Should I get my pendulum out? Absolutely, oh, ok, she actually would like a pendulum.
0:31:53 – Speaker 2
You broke it this time.
0:31:55 – Speaker 1
Oh, that makes me feel so much better. What does that mean? What does that?
0:32:01 – Speaker 2
mean I think we need a new pendulum.
0:32:05 – Speaker 1
Oh my God, pendulum fell off. That’s not good, okay.
0:32:13 – Speaker 2
I don’t have my nail glue. Nope, I don’t think I can ask the pendulum. I fixed it last time, yeah, but now the piece is Hold on, go ahead and read Are you ready? I’ll try to twister it. Here’s the question.
0:32:25 – Speaker 1
Here’s the Ask Rebecca and Erin. Okay, what do you do when your empathy puts you in a situation where you feel uncomfortable? Recently, a past co-worker of mine randomly reached out via text asking if we could get together.
0:32:43 – Speaker 2
Did you say an ex-co-worker? Yes, okay, past co-worker.
0:32:47 – Speaker 1
Okay. He said he was going through something where he wanted to surround himself with positive people and quote, just needed a friend. Through our text exchange he explained that he is going through a divorce and it was a hard time for him. My empathy springs into action and I offer to meet him out for lunch or coffee sometime. His reply to my invitation was that he would prefer to come over to my house.
This request your face is classic. This request might not seem weird if a close friend asked this of me, but I have only talked to this guy a few times in the past four-ish years after he left the company we both worked at together. We also were never exceptionally close. We just saw each other at work every now and then and never hung out socially. After he left the company, he sent me a few hello texts just to keep in touch. He’s been very persistent about making plans and he checks in with me now every few days. I started to feel uncomfortable about getting together with him because of his persistence and saying he wanted to come to my house. I have asked a few friends oh, my thing, hang on, freaking hate that.
0:34:09 – Speaker 2
I don’t know why it does that. It jumps.
0:34:12 – Speaker 1
Okay, he’s been very persistent about making plans and checks in every few days. I started to feel uncomfortable about getting together with him because of his persistence and saying he wanted to come to my house. I have asked a few friends who also used to work with him about this situation. They find it strange and suggest not getting together with him. My husband also feels uncomfortable.
0:34:34 – Speaker 2
Oh, she married.
0:34:37 – Speaker 1
That’s right there. My husband also feels uncomfortable about it, saying that it almost sounds like this guy is trying to date me, and it’s inappropriate. Although I feel for him in his situation and I would love to offer support for him, I don’t really want to follow through on plans with him due to my comfort level at this point. So this is where I feel like my empathy for him has gotten me into a situation where I feel uncomfortable. I’d be interested to hear both your and Rebecca’s thoughts on this situation. If needed, please ask the pendulum. Many thanks to my empathy superheroes.
0:35:15 – Speaker 2
We’re going to start right with the pendulum. I love that. That’s good, right, that’s a good one.
0:35:22 – Speaker 1
You can ask me, but you can ask Rebecca.
0:35:25 – Speaker 2
We’re going to ask the pendulum first.
0:35:27 – Speaker 1
I have to tell you something. Kelly at the street said what she said. She’s like a third degree witch or something like that.
0:35:34 – Speaker 2
We should have her on and do it. She won’t do the hippie voodoo shit.
0:35:38 – Speaker 1
What if she just sits in the corner and does the hippie voodoo shit. I’ve already asked. I’ve asked all the things. She won’t do it. So she said you ask the pendulum, show me yes, show me no. So, that the pendulum tells you what you’re looking for, because I don’t know if it changes or whatever. That’s a really good, but thank you, kelly at the street. Thank you, kelly at the street for that witch stuff.
0:36:03 – Speaker 2
So show me. Yes, do you see it moving back and forth? Let’s go and back and forth. Okay, pendulum, show me. No, yeah, it’s doing the circle. Now, that’s how I do it. That’s how it does it for me at home. Do you see the circle? Is that not freaking you out?
0:36:25 – Speaker 1
No, not at all. I feel nothing.
0:36:27 – Speaker 2
So you’re dead inside. You’re all in. Are we ready?
0:36:31 – Speaker 1
We’re going to ask for our listener Should she get together with X co-worker.
0:36:42 – Speaker 2
Oh hell no, it says no. Oh, big time. No, wait, I have more questions. Should she continue engaging through text with him? Look at that, it’s saying yes. I’m really surprised, me too.
0:36:56 – Speaker 1
I disagree.
0:36:57 – Speaker 2
I disagree too. Should she cut ties with this guy nicely? It’s saying no. Wow, wait, is this guy romantically interested in her Saying no, clearly saying no?
0:37:13 – Speaker 3
Look at that. What if you had that hanging from something that wasn’t moving, like your arm, like if you were to hang it from?
0:37:24 – Speaker 1
Scott.
0:37:24 – Speaker 3
I’m not saying right now, I’m just curious.
0:37:26 – Speaker 1
This is absolutely what I love. You realize that if she puts that on something that is not moving, the whole hippie voodoo shit goes right down the tube.
0:37:38 – Speaker 2
Do you want to take it and ask the questions?
0:37:40 – Speaker 1
Here we go. Scott, you got me right in the middle here.
0:37:43 – Speaker 2
Are we clear. He’s trying to prove that he doesn’t want people to think that I’m moving it. Do you want to do?
0:37:49 – Speaker 1
it Because my arm doesn’t move.
0:37:54 – Speaker 3
If she does it, we can’t see or hear her. Let’s skip that part.
0:37:59 – Speaker 2
What do we ask Ann Should she meet up in person with her ex-co-worker?
0:38:09 – Speaker 3
It’s circling.
0:38:09 – Speaker 2
See, should she cut all ties with this guy? It’s still saying no, stop with the fate.
0:38:19 – Speaker 3
What was the other question we asked? What was her empathy for him?
0:38:22 – Speaker 2
Because, she feels bad. He’s going through a hard time. He’s having a hard time A divorce.
0:38:26 – Speaker 3
He’s going through a divorce. This practical stranger is the only person that he can turn to, exactly.
0:38:35 – Speaker 1
You find that odd?
0:38:36 – Speaker 2
It’s the story of my day on the life Scott. And insisting that he meet in her home. That’s weird. Now it’s circling. It’s saying no, knock on to the home.
0:38:50 – Speaker 3
Go to Panera.
0:38:51 – Speaker 2
That’s what it’s saying Do you want to go or meet?
0:38:55 – Speaker 1
I would love for you to start, because I actually think we might be a little more aligned on this, and then I would love to talk about why we’re more aligned. First of all, I’d like to really thank our listener for writing in and asking for the expertise of the two people here, erin and Rebecca. We really appreciate that. We do pride ourselves on having all of the answers for all of life’s empathy questions. That’s right. Please feel free to write in If you like today’s show. You can come in on wwwthemorelovepodcastcom or just send us an email at themorelovepodcastgmailcom or text us, if you know our numbers or probably just text us.
We have so many listeners here.
0:39:38 – Speaker 2
That’s right. I do have more follow-up questions. Do you know this person personally? You probably might have the answers. What type of career? What was their career that they worked in together? Was it an office? Yes, like an office setting. It was not a higher ed communal, it’s just your standard data entry office-y place, then necessarily many opportunities to have meaningful conversations with people.
0:40:11 – Speaker 1
unless you did it on purpose? Yes, if I’m remembering correctly, she said that essentially they would talk or hang out not hang out. Like a water cooler, like classic colleagues.
0:40:29 – Speaker 2
They’re not having lunch together or they’re personal lives.
0:40:32 – Speaker 1
She would tell me that he would do things like one of those lifts that you would go up on to get the boxes that were really high in the warehouse. He would go up on the lift and then would look down at her and would be like hi, hi, all the time while she was working. So there’s something there about an interest level of some type, is my gut sense. So this is someone who probably my guess is doesn’t have a whole bunch of close connections, doesn’t really know how to make social relationships with people, doesn’t have a lot of people, but then is going to glom on to the people that are giving any type of attention whatsoever. That’s my gut sense.
0:41:21 – Speaker 2
But it’s not like we’re best of friend colleagues and we hang out Like what we refer to as work husband and wife I’ve had many work husbands in my time, yes, and so us getting together outside of work wouldn’t have been weird, correct, and my husband knew them All the things. So absolutely not getting together with him At all, no, nothing she’s going to say or do is going to help him.
0:41:50 – Speaker 1
Okay, would you have before? He said I would really love to just meet you at your house. You would have gotten together with him. No, you weren’t getting together with this guy. No matter what, we don’t work together anymore.
0:42:03 – Speaker 2
We don’t need to be friends. That’s so weird.
0:42:06 – Speaker 1
Classic we’re done working together.
0:42:08 – Speaker 2
We’re all done. I mean, we can be nice to each other, but we’re done. We were friends at work because it was work. Now we’re done. Classic, that is so you.
Why do I need to maintain a relationship, especially because I don’t know you anymore? Now, if there was a bigger relationship there and it was already have been being maintained throughout the years, it’s a very different story. But you said that she had been gone for a while Right, four years, four years and they would just casually interact Casual hellos, right. So that’s weird. That’s just, that’s your casual relationship. Yeah, we’re kind, we had a. I shouldn’t say a thing, that’s not what I mean. But you were colleagues. You didn’t need to be mean to each other. But you certainly do not need to go out of your way to help someone through a divorce that you know nothing about.
0:42:57 – Speaker 1
So this guy reaches out to you four years after you’ve worked with him and is like hey, rebecca, stuff’s really tough right now. I know we weren’t super close when we worked together, but I just really would love to. I’ve always appreciated you. I’ve appreciated your insight. I’d love to talk to you about some stuff. I’m going through a divorce right now. I was just wondering, like, could we get together? Could I run some things past you? What do you do with that text?
0:43:22 – Speaker 2
message. I call you and have you write it, and then I copy it and paste it and send it and the gist of it is oh, I really appreciate you thinking of me and I’m going to try to do what you would say I really appreciate you thinking of me and that I might be able to help you through this. However, as sorry as I am that you’re going through this, my life is extremely full right now and I just don’t have the capacity. So I wish you well. I could cry. I could cry. I would never say that shit, that is perfect. I do learn from you.
0:43:58 – Speaker 1
You did such a great job If you had not asked me what to say, what would you say?
0:44:02 – Speaker 2
I would immediately call you and be like you need to hear this crazy shit, yep.
0:44:07 – Speaker 1
And then you would never respond no.
0:44:09 – Speaker 2
I didn’t get the message, and then I would immediately block the number Yep.
0:44:13 – Speaker 1
I know you would Sorry, so there’s no part of you that feels empathy for the fact that this person is going through a hard time. Oh no, I do feel empathy.
0:44:23 – Speaker 2
I do. I feel that really sucks. I’m really sorry, but I do not need to be a part of that.
0:44:28 – Speaker 1
Fascinating. Talk more about that, because I think that’s the crux for people with a tremendous amount of empathy. The problem for us is we feel a whole bunch of empathy and then we feel like if we do not assist in that empathy situation, we are somehow doing a disservice, that that person is not going to be okay, that we’re going to have that on our minds that we did not assist. That’s the part you don’t have. You have the empathy. I’m really sorry you’re going through a voice that’s really hard.
That really sucks. What’s the turn it off that comes from? What is it about you that feels like you don’t have to help, assist, manage, support or care for that?
0:45:05 – Speaker 2
person. I am very, very crystal clear on my values and when I look at my to-do list and I look at who comes first my husband, my children, my inner circle, my work, your husband your children, me, your inner circle.
0:45:20 – Speaker 1
I’m sorry, I didn’t know if I heard you okay.
0:45:22 – Speaker 3
Aaron my husband.
0:45:25 – Speaker 2
I’m very clear that. And then I look at my calendar and my schedule and what my priorities are and I am much more interested in watching TV with my husband. Then I am engaging with your crazy as shit. Okay, I just have no desire to do it because it is taking away from what I really want to do.
0:45:41 – Speaker 1
What if you won the lottery? Mm-hmm, a better scenario would be what if I won the lottery and I just took care of you for the rest of your life?
0:45:49 – Speaker 2
Mm-hmm.
0:45:50 – Speaker 1
You never had to work another day in your life, mm-hmm. You send the kids to school. Your husband still loves to work because he’s weird like that and you’re like all I can do. How many times can one person go to Hobby Lobby in one week, right? How many times, right, mm-hmm. You have all the time in the world Are you engaging with this person?
0:46:11 – Speaker 2
In this scenario, this exact scenario, Someone who contacts you from the past no, you’re still not.
0:46:18 – Speaker 1
No, okay, then you got to dig deeper. For me, because, yes, it’s about values, but there’s something else that keep, that’s keeping you from engaging. Because in that second scenario, you don’t care about my time, that you have all the time in the world. You have all the time in the world to be able to dedicate to this someone. You’re still not doing it. Why?
0:46:37 – Speaker 2
It’s an energy suck, it’s a. It doesn’t matter what I have to say to you. I can be as empathetic, I can give you advice, I can do all those things, but I know deep down you’re not gonna do any of that and you just want my time and I don’t want to give you time. So you, because if I did, I would have been giving you time this whole entire time that we weren’t working together. I would have had a relationship with you, but I don’t. So why would I go that next level of depth when you’re just a colleague?
0:47:05 – Speaker 1
You don’t feel the need to have to share your energy with anyone, with just anyone. Correct, that is a difference, and and for me as well as your person. I feel that it feels, at least to me, like I have to or I owe it to to support this person With energy. Now you’re really teaching me, but wait, are you, are you?
0:47:34 – Speaker 2
nailing it and every other aspect of your life Are you. Are you nailing it like? Your husband feels a hundred percent fulfilled, your parents, your best friends, everybody else feels a hundred percent filled, then why are so? You’re, you’re going to continue to let that.
0:47:50 – Speaker 1
Be because it’s easier for me. Yeah, it’s easier, that’s your problem.
0:47:54 – Speaker 2
That’s your saver. Complex, it’s easier problem.
0:47:57 – Speaker 1
Mm-hmm. It’s easier to give to the people who need it that are Separate than it is for me to dive deeper into the empathy of the people who need me to be there.
That’s your problem because, in some ways I think that’s fascinating. In some ways I feel like I do give a ton of empathy Of course you do and that it’s not always either reciprocated or I’m not. I Feel like at some point I’m like I just how much more do I give Right? And so it’s not as rewarding to me as when I give it to.
0:48:29 – Speaker 2
Random co-worker. You just, you just nailed it. Reward it’s, it’s your savior, complex. That’s, that’s what makes you fulfilled. It’s like a mini high. It is like a mini high and that that is an energy suck for me.
Hmm, so I’m getting secondarily rewarded From helping someone especially if it’s pissing your husband off, because clearly she talked to her husband about it and her husband said what the hell? Now, number one value is your husband. If he has a problem with it, you cut that shit off immediately. If you’re toddling back and forth, and you really got to look inside yourself, really yes, really yes. If I said to my husband I’m very uncomfortable with that and he didn’t cut shut off, we got big problems. Hmm.
0:49:15 – Speaker 3
Hmm.
0:49:15 – Speaker 2
Hmm, interesting, because where is your values lie?
0:49:18 – Speaker 1
Is this really fascinating? I would feel that way if Mark was talking to some co-worker and I’m like, absolutely not we’re not doing that? Stop that right now, and if he didn’t stop, but if it was the other way around, I’d be like I got this. I don’t need you to tell me what to do. Hmm, I’m in control of this situation because you get high off of it. Isn’t that fascinating.
0:49:36 – Speaker 2
Mm-hmm, but that’s where you really need to look into the real reason, because you can very clearly give two sentence advice to that person. You don’t need to sit down with them. This is, this is how I feel about protecting you all the time. You don’t need to sit down with people, you don’t need to have conversations with them. They can get the same information from someone else somewhere else, over and over and over again. It’s it’s something about being in your presence, it’s something about Whatever it is and and unfortunately, so you’re saying in this situation that this individual Targeted this woman, knowing she’s like me?
0:50:14 – Speaker 1
She’s actually nicer than me.
0:50:16 – Speaker 2
I don’t know that. If it was a target, okay, he probably my judge of her knowing that she probably made him feel good right and made him feel seen, and that’s what I mean about like right.
0:50:28 – Speaker 1
He’s not just randomly reaching out to his old supervisor, right, he’s like I have a connection with this woman right from my past, because, even though in her mind it was this fleeting Connection in his mind it was this is someone who makes me feel, seen, which happens a lot to me. Sure, right, as well as it happens to this other woman. Because you’re a listener, you care, you don’t want to be rude to people, you don’t want to make people feel uncomfortable, right, but then at some point that can transition into well, now I’m uncomfortable. Or now I got to go and now I can’t break it off because, right, that person is, is so into that Conversation that now you almost feel bad and indebted to the fact that You’ve not Engaged enough with them right and this is where the cutting your nose off despite your face comes in.
That’s right. So your tactic of we just don’t even get involved in the first place, because we know Well I’m eventually gonna end up down the rabbit hole, is not a bad tactic and, to be fair, one that I really am trying to hone.
0:51:30 – Speaker 2
You’re doing great.
0:51:31 – Speaker 1
Thank you a lot of ways, thank you. I’m doing two things differently. One, I’m setting up that boundary earlier, so that I’m saying things like this sounds really difficult. You know, have you spoken with a therapist about this? Have you, you know, whatever specifically for people who aren’t in my inner circle? So I’m setting up a boundary and I’m closing down Conversations earlier.
I am doing better about that. And then the second thing I’m doing is I’m really trying to dissect what it feels like in my body when I have free time and I’m comfortable with it you, that’s.
0:52:06 – Speaker 2
Your first step is acknowledgement, yes, that you’ve acknowledged, even acknowledged that most people aren’t even at that point when they can acknowledge that they’re hiding and work, or they’re hiding in social media or they’re hiding in asmr. Yep you know you stop, they’re hiding, they’re not Aligning with their actual values, because I guarantee those people will say well, families, my number one value. Really. What is your calendar? How does your calendar reflect that? How much time are you spending with your family?
0:52:34 – Speaker 1
Mm-hmm.
0:52:35 – Speaker 2
Oh, oh, okay. So is family you really your value? And it’s okay if it’s not. But you have to get aligned, yeah, that you have to get aligned in your, in your heart, with your values and where you spend your time. Stop being fake about your values, right?
0:52:49 – Speaker 1
And you’re only fooling yourself.
0:52:51 – Speaker 2
That’s right and and at the end of the day, whatever you value is fine. That’s right. If you value money and you will do anything to get money, that’s right, I’m bored with that, yeah, just own it. Yes, but you know, that if?
you laugh at me all the time. You’ll be like, can you, can you, can you go on this overnight with me? And I’m like no. And you’re like why? And I’m like because it’s my daughter’s JV soccer game. And you’re like how many games does she have? And I’m like 15. And you’re like you can’t miss one. No, I can’t.
0:53:17 – Speaker 1
My number one priority is being there for my children somehow I manipulate you and you’re going with me or something happens. I have to have that conversation because that is my number one.
0:53:27 – Speaker 2
I am the one who I want to take them to. Every practice I want it. That is a Huge priority for me. Every single dance class, I’m sitting in the waiting room. I do not drop them off and come and pick them up. No, but that’s my value. Do I do other things when I’m sure, but at the end of the day, my calendar reflects my values for the most part.
0:53:48 – Speaker 1
So, and part of what I’m really trying to lean into is I like to be going, I like to be doing, I don’t like to be idle, I like to be creative, I like to put out into the world as much goodness as I possibly can, Nailing it.
Where that has been sort of off kilter for a while is that I was pushing so much out and connecting so much with other people and doing the podcast and doing my business and supporting the charity and doing all of these things that I was completely out of alignment to the point where I wasn’t sleeping very well at night. I was stress during the day, I was getting too short with my family, I was not taking the time that I needed to sit with my family or invest in them or whatever, and for me it has been a bit of a values clarification. But it’s also been about what does it feel like to sit in the discomfort of not doing and why are we uncomfortable not doing? And I think in some ways that that’s connected to the savior complex, because if my worth and my value comes from how much I give to others and I’m sitting on the couch watching cops I’m not giving.
And if I’m not giving then there’s an impact on my value, my worth, my worth, my ability to connect with other people. That is what I’ve really honed in the last, I’d say, three weeks just not raising my hand to participate, not being the person who’s like I’ll take care of that right, letting other people step in and take care of some things for me, even if that means that I feel like I could take that on, but yet it’s important for that other person to take on. So I’ve been on this very interesting journey over the last three or four weeks associated with that.
0:55:50 – Speaker 2
I have to interrupt you. If you were to take a survey from your husband and your son and just say, rate me, rate me on a scale of one to 10 as a wife and meeting your needs, rate me on a scale of one to 10 as a mom, meeting your needs, and again, if you’re nailing it there, that’s awesome. But if your son comes to you and says, yeah, mom, you’re the love of my life, but you’re really only at five because you’re not home or you’re always on the phone working or whatever, that will also be a very clear indicator.
Now, we’re not gonna ask those questions because you don’t wanna hear the answers.
0:56:27 – Speaker 1
Well, I didn’t have to ask the question because my son continued to come in every single day. He got home from school and he would start to make comments like you’re always working, how come you have to work so much? What is it that you do at your job? I don’t wanna do that when I get older, because all you do is work right. And then I started to hear very clearly and I’m like you gotta get this together right, because, yes, there is a lot of work to be done and the reality is it’s still gonna be there tomorrow.
0:56:57 – Speaker 2
That’s right, that’s right, but this ex-co-worker from four years ago doesn’t need that evening at my house when my son does. Yeah right.
0:57:08 – Speaker 1
And, in this scenario, putting the boundary on not needing to be the person that this person comes to and instead questioning why is it that we feel we have to show up for people who have not at all shown up for us or been a part of our life for however many years?
0:57:28 – Speaker 2
That’s what I mean. It would be very different if it was your work husband that every single day you went to lunch, every single day you had conversations with. They knew the inner workings of your relationship. Maybe you had insight to why their marriage fell apart.
0:57:42 – Speaker 1
None of that exists none of that, and the reality is that this is what strongly empathic people do is they feel like they have to give to these people who were an otherwise meaningless to their life. We just can’t admit that because it sounds mean right, but it’s a theme of what I’ve. It’s just honest, it’s just reality, it’s just the reality.
0:58:08 – Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s not mean, but sometimes honesty and sometimes reality can come across as hurtful. It’s just like with life there’s gonna be disappointments all the time, and that’s okay. It’s okay to be disappointed, it’s okay not to get what you want. At the end of the day, you need to make choices and decisions that reflect your values. I don’t know how lots to say it, and I think the theme, because otherwise you’re not authentic.
0:58:35 – Speaker 1
It keeps coming up. A lot in these episodes is look at you, yeah, Look at you. It’s so easy to say, oh my gosh, what about this guy? How come he’s contacting us? How come this right? Why are you feeling like? That Is a real question we should be asking. Why are in and I’m in the same boat that this girl is?
0:58:56 – Speaker 2
right. So, that’s not a judgment at all, and you definitely don’t listen to me when I tell you what to do.
0:59:00 – Speaker 1
I do, or else I wouldn’t be where I am right now. It only took 20 years. Well, some of us were slower learners than others, geez, but yes, right. Look at you. Look at you, and the first question you should be asking yourself is what is it about me that doesn’t allow this situation to unfold in a different way? And do I like that about myself? What need am I fulfilling at the end of the day? And if I don’t like that about myself and I’m still doing it, which was the place where I was what do I need to change? What needs to be different? That’s where the work is. It’s that saying when one finger’s pointed this way, there’s three fingers pointing back at you.
0:59:40 – Speaker 2
I’ve never heard that.
0:59:41 – Speaker 1
Oh really, that’s a great saying One finger pointing this way, three pointing back at you, right.
0:59:45 – Speaker 3
So what is?
0:59:46 – Speaker 1
it about you, and that’s the work.
0:59:49 – Speaker 2
That’s the hard work, that’s the big work. That’s where change happens. Even when you do feel confident in your decision to shut this guy down, it’s still gonna feel mean. It’s always gonna feel mean because you weren’t giving. You don’t need to always be giving. You don’t, and it’s okay Because at the end of the day, you have to think about the other things in your life and, what’s more important, you don’t need to always be giving no.
1:00:19 – Speaker 1
I think that’s an amazing message. I completely agree.
1:00:24 – Speaker 2
So your final statement to this listener who asked us for advice is what my advice is to really look at yourself and really really decide what you want to do and then couch that for a minute, because you already brought your husband into it. Have a conversation with your husband, because I think that’s also going to be a major part of it. When you’re a team and you’re a partnership and that’s what husbands and wives do at the end of the day, you need to honor each other, and so if he was like you know what, if you feel like you need to help this person, go right ahead. Then go back to your couch and pick up what your decision was. If your husband says absolutely not, I’m very uncomfortable with this, I do not want you to meet them in person. But if you feel the need to have a text message, conversation, whatever I mean again, you’ve got to figure out what’s okay in your relationship Then go back to your couch statement, pick it up and really think about that and then, in what feels genuine to you, respond to that person.
In subcapacity, I can’t tell you what to say because I would shut it off immediately or just ignore because I don’t have time. I barely have time to get my life together, so I just don’t have that time. But if that’s uncomfortable for you, you need to do something that is comfortable for you but still honors all the boundaries and the values. And it’s a practice. You know how people say you practice law, you’re practicing and honoring your value system. I really think at the end of the day, people do not truly sit with what their values are and define them. So that would be my first advice.
1:02:08 – Speaker 1
I think that would be my advice. Related to that would be let’s use this as an opportunity to practice how we set boundaries with someone at the end of the day that it’s not gonna matter, right? It’s not like he’s showing up at your house.
1:02:22 – Speaker 2
It’s not like it’s not even about this one person Right, it’s about all the other.
1:02:26 – Speaker 1
But if we can practice with this person, let’s see that as a gift. To practice with someone how we set a better boundary. And then the other thing I would say is trust your gut Absolutely. If there is something about this situation that is making you feel uncomfortable, that is like. That doesn’t sit right with me. You don’t need to give an excuse or a reason to anyone.
You can simply say something about this. Situation isn’t sitting right with me and I’m not gonna be able to continue this conversation. That does not mean, however, I don’t wish you the absolute best and hope everything is gonna be great for you. Exactly my best to you. Shut down, block, move on.
1:03:07 – Speaker 2
And I. The reason I use the word block is because, if you don’t, you’re still leaving that window open.
1:03:14 – Speaker 1
Well, those of us with a ton of empathy, you have to.
1:03:16 – Speaker 2
It’s a temptation, it’s a slippery slope to get sucked back in. Boundaries are hard. They’re really hard, because they feel mean Sometimes out of sight, out of mind, is helpful. Yep and I got a lot of black people in my life on purpose.
1:03:33 – Speaker 1
Yeah, good luck blocking me. I’m gonna show up at your front door knocking on that door two o’clock in the morning. That’s right, you got me blocked. You got me blocked, oh my God. So if that went well, we’ll get some feedback from the listener.
1:03:48 – Speaker 3
Yeah, we’ll find out. Send us your questions, your concerns.
1:03:52 – Speaker 1
This is our Ask Abby Hour, except it’s Ask Erin and Rebecca.
1:03:56 – Speaker 2
That’s right, that’s right.
1:03:57 – Speaker 1
Thank you for joining us today and Ta ta for now. See you next Tuesday.
1:04:02 – Speaker 2
Ha ha, ha I loved that Me too Is an empathy amazing. Well, we’re amazing. I don’t know about all this empathy stuff.
1:04:13 – Speaker 1
That’s fine, I accept you wherever you are. Oh God, I love you. I love you too, and if you love us, please like and subscribe to More Love the power of empathy podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.
